Vitalik writes Dear John letter to the Ethereum community...

[tokeweed]

people can creating virtually anything surrounding bitcoin but they're not doing it, because it don't make them money

Why would they though?  Lots of people bought Bitcoin really cheap (Max Keiser), so now you're supposed to do a bunch of work on top of Bitcoin to make rich people more rich instead of attempting to make yourself rich?

You can't really fault them trying.  Just stop trying to classify Vitalik as the pope or something.  He pulled a typical Bobsurplus scam.

i have never praise anyone in this forum beside satoshi. vilatik is just another opportunist scammer just like anyone else in this altcoins scam scene.

Ok..  Besides Buterin, who do you think are the other 'scammers' in the Crypto 2.0 scene?

everyone. there is no reason for crypto 2.0, crypto 3.0, or crypto 4.0, they're all opportunist looking to make money out of dumb morons
like i said again and again, people can creating virtually anything surround bitcoin.

I get what you're saying.  But what do you think of Bytemaster of Bitshares?  Is he an opportunist scammer too?  I mean honestly...

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[benthach]

i already answered

[tokeweed]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

[benthach]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

[tokeweed]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

[smooth]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

It sort of does in the sense that you are playing greater fool where someone is inevitably left holding the bag if there isn't actual adoption at the end of the story.

I don't take as hard a line on it as benthach does, and I think some alt projects are actually trying to achieve that adoption, but I also think there is a huge portion of this scene that is effectively a massively multiplayer online gambling game where whoever sells last (or not at all) loses.

[tokeweed]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

It sort of does in the sense that you are playing greater fool where someone is inevitably left holding the bag if there isn't actual adoption at the end of the story.

I don't take as hard a line on it as benthach does, and I think some alt projects are actually trying to achieve that adoption, but I also think there is a huge portion of this scene that is effectively a massively multiplayer online gambling game where whoever sells last (or not at all) loses.

So Bitcoin could be called the same thing if there weren't enough users?

Nice avatar btw.  

[benthach]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

if you don't know 100% developer/s usually making money and first one to get out, this is considered opportunist scam pyramid in my book. this will continue on and on.

[smooth]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

It sort of does in the sense that you are playing greater fool where someone is inevitably left holding the bag if there isn't actual adoption at the end of the story.

I don't take as hard a line on it as benthach does, and I think some alt projects are actually trying to achieve that adoption, but I also think there is a huge portion of this scene that is effectively a massively multiplayer online gambling game where whoever sells last (or not at all) loses.

So Bitcoin could be called the same thing if there weren't enough users?

Nice avatar btw. 

It could, somewhat. I view it as less so because when Bitcoin was launched there was no precedent that it would ever have any monetary value at all. There were no markets to trade on. The concept of a crypto investor didn't even exist. Today (and especially in 2013-2014) it is much, much easier to just be an opportunist.

[tokeweed]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

if you don't know 100% developer/s usually making money and first one to get out, this is considered opportunist scam pyramid in my book. this will continue on and on.

But Bytemaster is still with the project he started and is still trying to create new stuff in crypto development pushing the envelop.  And that's the thing, how can you call him a "scammer" in the same sense as Bobsurplus is a real scammer.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

people can creating virtually anything surrounding bitcoin but they're not doing it, because it don't make them money

Why would they though?  Lots of people bought Bitcoin really cheap (Max Keiser), so now you're supposed to do a bunch of work on top of Bitcoin to make rich people more rich instead of attempting to make yourself rich?

You can't really fault them trying.  Just stop trying to classify Vitalik as the pope or something.  He pulled a typical Bobsurplus scam.

Same can be said to lots of other individuals in crypto.  BCNext, Bytemaster, Jed McCaleb, Evan.. etc etc..

Really?  He collected 21 Bitcoins @ ~$120 USD and didn't even get a stake.

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

if you don't know 100% developer/s usually making money and first one to get out, this is considered opportunist scam pyramid in my book. this will continue on and on.

But Bytemaster is still with the project he started and is still trying to create new stuff in crypto development pushing the envelop.  And that's the thing, how can you call him a "scammer" in the same sense as Bobsurplus is a real scammer.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.0.html

I may also seize brownie points from any account if you fall out of favor and anyone who complains in any way about how Brownie Points are issued or how I use Brownie Points is certainly not in my favor and may lose any Brownie Points they have earned.  -Bytemaster, Dan Larimer

[tokeweed]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

It sort of does in the sense that you are playing greater fool where someone is inevitably left holding the bag if there isn't actual adoption at the end of the story.

I don't take as hard a line on it as benthach does, and I think some alt projects are actually trying to achieve that adoption, but I also think there is a huge portion of this scene that is effectively a massively multiplayer online gambling game where whoever sells last (or not at all) loses.

So Bitcoin could be called the same thing if there weren't enough users?

Nice avatar btw. 

It could, somewhat. I view it as less so because when Bitcoin was launched there was no precedent that it would ever have any monetary value at all. There were no markets to trade on. The concept of a crypto investor didn't even exist. Today (and especially in 2013-2014) it is much, much easier to just be an opportunist.

True true.  But do you honestly think Buterin started Ethereum with a malicious plan to scam people out of their money from the beginning?

[tokeweed]

people can creating virtually anything surrounding bitcoin but they're not doing it, because it don't make them money

Why would they though?  Lots of people bought Bitcoin really cheap (Max Keiser), so now you're supposed to do a bunch of work on top of Bitcoin to make rich people more rich instead of attempting to make yourself rich?

You can't really fault them trying.  Just stop trying to classify Vitalik as the pope or something.  He pulled a typical Bobsurplus scam.

Same can be said to lots of other individuals in crypto.  BCNext, Bytemaster, Jed McCaleb, Evan.. etc etc..

Really?  He collected 21 Bitcoins @ ~$120 USD and didn't even get a stake.

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

if you don't know 100% developer/s usually making money and first one to get out, this is considered opportunist scam pyramid in my book. this will continue on and on.

But Bytemaster is still with the project he started and is still trying to create new stuff in crypto development pushing the envelop.  And that's the thing, how can you call him a "scammer" in the same sense as Bobsurplus is a real scammer.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17354.0.html

I may also seize brownie points from any account if you fall out of favor and anyone who complains in any way about how Brownie Points are issued or how I use Brownie Points is certainly not in my favor and may lose any Brownie Points they have earned.  -Bytemaster, Dan Larimer

Bah.  I know you know what I mean...  Some people just have it in black or white where they classify Buterin and Bobsurplus in the same type of people (scammers) and refuse to look at the situation more closely and refuse to accept the fact that it is more complicated than that.  Mentioning those names was more like expressing a rhetoric rather than outright saying "Hey these people are scammers too."

[smooth]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

It sort of does in the sense that you are playing greater fool where someone is inevitably left holding the bag if there isn't actual adoption at the end of the story.

I don't take as hard a line on it as benthach does, and I think some alt projects are actually trying to achieve that adoption, but I also think there is a huge portion of this scene that is effectively a massively multiplayer online gambling game where whoever sells last (or not at all) loses.

So Bitcoin could be called the same thing if there weren't enough users?

Nice avatar btw. 

It could, somewhat. I view it as less so because when Bitcoin was launched there was no precedent that it would ever have any monetary value at all. There were no markets to trade on. The concept of a crypto investor didn't even exist. Today (and especially in 2013-2014) it is much, much easier to just be an opportunist.

True true.  But do you honestly think Buterin started Ethereum with a malicious plan to scam people out of their money from the beginning?

Words like "malicious" and "scam" are really subjective. I do think he started it with the intent to take a lot of investors money and put it in his and his friends' pockets, while not really making a solemn commitment to be a good custodian of the investors'  money and deliver what was promised (and not treat the money as his personal playground to spend on and work on whatever the hell he felt like). And in the end that is exactly how it has worked out.

I don't think he intended to just take the money and run, delivering nothing at all. That's also consistent with how it worked out.

So, scam, or not scam. Malicious or not malicious. Everyone can decide individually how to characterize it.

[tokeweed]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

It sort of does in the sense that you are playing greater fool where someone is inevitably left holding the bag if there isn't actual adoption at the end of the story.

I don't take as hard a line on it as benthach does, and I think some alt projects are actually trying to achieve that adoption, but I also think there is a huge portion of this scene that is effectively a massively multiplayer online gambling game where whoever sells last (or not at all) loses.

So Bitcoin could be called the same thing if there weren't enough users?

Nice avatar btw.  

It could, somewhat. I view it as less so because when Bitcoin was launched there was no precedent that it would ever have any monetary value at all. There were no markets to trade on. The concept of a crypto investor didn't even exist. Today (and especially in 2013-2014) it is much, much easier to just be an opportunist.

True true.  But do you honestly think Buterin started Ethereum with a malicious plan to scam people out of their money from the beginning?

Words like "malicious" and "scam" are really subjective. I do think he started it with the intent to take a lot of investors money and put it in his and his friends' pocket, while not really making a solemn commitment to be a good custodian of the investors'  money and deliver what was promised (and not treat the money as his personal playground to spend on and work on whatever the hell he felt like). And in the end that is exactly how it has worked out.

I don't think he intended to just take the money and run, delivering nothing at all. That's also consistent with how it worked out.

So, scam, or not scam. Malicious or not malicious. Everyone can decide individually how to characterize it.

So he scammed people without making it look like an outright scam.  What is the state of the project btw?

Edit:  Don't answer that.  I'll make a new thread asking how the frontier release is, and how it was received.  Or I'll just do my own research and go through their forum if I'm not lazy.  Anyway, nice talk.  You have opened my eyes to the possibility that there could be a new category of scumbag in crypto.  And it could be the lowest of the low at that.

Thanks.

[smooth]

i already answered

What makes you think Bitshares is a scam?  They clearly have a nice looking project.  Arguably better than BTC technically depending on how you see it imo.

you can get some bitshares and play with yourself or other 10 people. adoption, adoption, chance for bitshares adoption = 0.00000%

That doesn't make it a scam.

It sort of does in the sense that you are playing greater fool where someone is inevitably left holding the bag if there isn't actual adoption at the end of the story.

I don't take as hard a line on it as benthach does, and I think some alt projects are actually trying to achieve that adoption, but I also think there is a huge portion of this scene that is effectively a massively multiplayer online gambling game where whoever sells last (or not at all) loses.

So Bitcoin could be called the same thing if there weren't enough users?

Nice avatar btw. 

It could, somewhat. I view it as less so because when Bitcoin was launched there was no precedent that it would ever have any monetary value at all. There were no markets to trade on. The concept of a crypto investor didn't even exist. Today (and especially in 2013-2014) it is much, much easier to just be an opportunist.

True true.  But do you honestly think Buterin started Ethereum with a malicious plan to scam people out of their money from the beginning?

Words like "malicious" and "scam" are really subjective. I do think he started it with the intent to take a lot of investors money and put it in his and his friends' pocket, while not really making a solemn commitment to be a good custodian of the investors'  money and deliver what was promised (and not treat the money as his personal playground to spend on and work on whatever the hell he felt like). And in the end that is exactly how it has worked out.

I don't think he intended to just take the money and run, delivering nothing at all. That's also consistent with how it worked out.

So, scam, or not scam. Malicious or not malicious. Everyone can decide individually how to characterize it.

So he scammed people without making it look like an outright scam.  What is the state of the project btw?

Edit:  Don't answer that.  I'll make a new thread asking how the frontier release is, and how it was received.  Or I'll just do my own research and go through their forum if I'm not lazy.  Anyway, nice talk.  You have opened my eyes to the possibility that there could be a new category of scumbag in crypto.  And it could be the lowest of the low at that.

Thanks.

The state of the project is pretty well covered in the OP on this thread (and linked blog post).

I think a lot of the blame for the mess that it turned into lies with the investors who basically did a "Shut up and take my money". There was very little scrutiny of the "plan". Nobody seemed to care that there was no real governance, little in the way of strong, deep, experienced, or accountable management to go along with the $20 million budget or whatever they got.

When you give matches to toddlers to play with, don't act all surprised when the house burns down. (This wasn't intended as a dig at Vitalik's age either, although reading it that way is not terrible.)

[monsanto]

"REPEAT AFTER ME. IT WAS NOT AN INITIAL PURCHASE OFFERING. YOU COULD ONLY INITIALLY PURCHASE ETH DURING THE OFFERING."

LOL..

Jesus.. 31,000 BTC just doesn't seem to go very far now adays.. Makes me feel a little 'sick' actually.

Personally, I just don't think there is a large enough TECHNICAL Community who could take ethereum to this POS point Vitalik speaks of.. Sorry.

If they don't 'Finish' it.. whatever that means, someone else will start something new, learn from their MANY mistakes, and try again. (Less Feature Creep next time please..)

What I am curious about is this - they have already included the exponential POW algo that will make POW un-tenable in 12 months, this was to ensure there is a switch to POS, but now he is saying they won't be able to do this..

Will they remove that code ?

Or is there a gun to our heads with a clock tick-tocking away next to us.. 

Yeah, seems kind of odd to do it this way. They already knew they ran behind schedule with Frontier launch by what? six months or a year or something? Knowing how badly they misjudged how long that would take, they then decide to put in a mandatory self-destruct deadline for POW? 

[prophetx]

because when Satoshi released the first btc client it was bug proof, security audited and ready for bank adoption and there was soon a crowd sale taking in millions using the currency.

as an aside some of you guys sound like you work on the local street corner asking for hand outs. which only says to me BTC and the rest need to stay depressed for at least another year just to wash you all out.

can't wait for the new blood to come in.

[JacksonBriggs]

because when Satoshi released the first btc client it was bug proof, security audited and ready for bank adoption and there was soon a crowd sale taking in millions using the currency.

as an aside some of you guys sound like you work on the local street corner asking for hand outs. which only says to me BTC and the rest need to stay depressed for at least another year just to wash you all out.

can't wait for the new blood to come in.

People have been waiting for new blood for a couple years now. Currently its the same folks selling the same shit back and forth to each other.

[rnicoll]

can't wait for the new blood to come in.

So what are we doing to actually make cryptocurrencies interesting to new people? So far everyone seems to insist we'll all be rich as soon as someone comes along and actually makes Bitcoin useful, very few people are actually trying to make it useful.