BM1384 Pod Miner plus trade-in/recycling - an interest and feasibility poll

[kilo17]

Still working on the PCB layout. Not sure if I mentioned or not but we expanded the board size a bit to make it actually possible to manufacture in a single-sided board and still have room  for a CPU cooler with mounting and clearance and stuff. Current dimension are 10x15cm, about 4x6 inches.

The mount holes I'm putting in are the proper spacing for LGA115x coolers. One thing to note, however, is that our ASICs stand between 35 and 40 thousandths of an inch (about 0.9mm) above the PCB. An unmodified CPU cooler is likely to sit well above this point, being as it's used to mating with a fairly thick processor in a fairly thick socket. With this in mind, I've added some extra holes which line up to some direct mounting on the Freezer 7 (since that's what I'm referencing) and also making sure to keep clearance around the chips to use lower-profile coolers like stock Intel i-series (which I don't recommend for near full speed operation since they have a round core and corner chips will probably run hot). Basically, I'm trying to give options without going crazy.

My test board will have some added instrumentation like output current measurement and extra pads to directly measure and manipulate. It's likely some of this won't be on the final version, unless y'all really want the functionality (at slightly added parts cost). If I don't run into issues with time management, I should be able to order some prototype boards tomorrow and they'd be in by probably middle of next week. During that interrim I have some other design tasks and some manufacturing to take care of.

After we have some working prototypes and the firmware is finished and tested, I'll raffle off at least one of the prototype pods and start taking in funds for a full batch. I don't know yet how big a full batch will be, but it looks like there's interest and materials enough already to merit about 100.

What about using some of the high end thermal pads with slight adhesion- I know the Phobya has some thermal pads that are in the 7 W/mK and the lower end Phobya is 5 W/mK.  I have never tried thermal pads with ASICS but it cannot be as bad as some of the manufacturers using a gallon of thermal compound.  I ask because it would alleviate the need for cooler mounting holes.

[AJRGale]

As stated earlier...

you did? oh bugger me, I'm half reading things again!

 ..snip..

What about using some of the high end thermal pads with slight adhesion- I know the Phobya has some thermal pads that are in the 7 W/mK and the lower end Phobya is 5 W/mK.  I have never tried thermal pads with ASICS but it cannot be as bad as some of the manufacturers using a gallon of thermal compound.  I ask because it would alleviate the need for cooler mounting holes.

well, sticking a CPU cooler to the chips would make a lot of strain, and having the mounds holds them tight to the heat source.

if anything, large 3cmx3cmx3mm copper shim would do better..
but the Freezer 7 pro looks to have plenty of contact area.

and I thought the W/mK was meant to be higher number is better? Nope. Wrong! http://www.ccfltd.co.uk/Trade-Support/Calculating_U_Values

The lower the conductivity, the more thermally efficient a material is.

[kilo17]

As stated earlier...

you did? oh bugger me, I'm half reading things again!

 ..snip..

What about using some of the high end thermal pads with slight adhesion- I know the Phobya has some thermal pads that are in the 7 W/mK and the lower end Phobya is 5 W/mK.  I have never tried thermal pads with ASICS but it cannot be as bad as some of the manufacturers using a gallon of thermal compound.  I ask because it would alleviate the need for cooler mounting holes.

well, sticking a CPU cooler to the chips would make a lot of strain, and having the mounds holds them tight to the heat source.

if anything, large 3cmx3cmx3mm copper shim would do better..
but the Freezer 7 pro looks to have plenty of contact area.

and I thought the W/mK was meant to be higher number is better? Nope. Wrong! http://www.ccfltd.co.uk/Trade-Support/Calculating_U_Values

The lower the conductivity, the more thermally efficient a material is.

If the board is flat and stationary then it would not add any strain at all.  

Yes- the higher the W/mK the better.  I think you are overthinking it.  You are looking at the thermal conductivity = less conductive is more efficient but with a Thermal interface you do want a higher conductivity in order to pass the heat to the cooler. This is why silver is a great TIM but is conductive which creates another set of issues.  Silver has a thermal conductivity of about 418 - while silver thermal compounds have a thermal conductivity of 2-8. 

[hurricandave]

Bitmain used thermal pads on the U1 and U2-U2+.  I've had my 30 U2+ sticks running 24/7 for almost two years now. In the end, thermal pads/tape, what have you, cost more than Chinese gov't subsidized  bulk PASTE.

[glytch]

New kid on the block here, at least as far as actually commenting on the forums is concerned, been reading for a while. I've got 4 S1s and 2 S3+ units that have been running since December, and the S1s are about ready to go out the door. Would love to help with this project, and get a few pods out of it as well
Slightly related, noticed you were in Missouri, sidehack? What region, if you dont mind my asking? NE here. Anyway, keep up the great work, love the fact we are reusing EoL gear, instead of just throwing it away and buying new. That's what I'm all about.

[sidehack]

I'm going to leave the holes, because some people already have screws for things which were designed to be screwed in place but not everybody has thermal pads or quarter-inch copper plate - I among them. Y'all can do whatever you want to mount your coolers though, since that's part of the point of the project.

[spazzdla]

I am excited for this pod miner!!

Just got one of the usb miners, works great. 

[toptek]

Still working on the PCB layout. Not sure if I mentioned or not but we expanded the board size a bit to make it actually possible to manufacture in a single-sided board and still have room  for a CPU cooler with mounting and clearance and stuff. Current dimension are 10x15cm, about 4x6 inches.

The mount holes I'm putting in are the proper spacing for LGA115x coolers. One thing to note, however, is that our ASICs stand between 35 and 40 thousandths of an inch (about 0.9mm) above the PCB. An unmodified CPU cooler is likely to sit well above this point, being as it's used to mating with a fairly thick processor in a fairly thick socket. With this in mind, I've added some extra holes which line up to some direct mounting on the Freezer 7 (since that's what I'm referencing) and also making sure to keep clearance around the chips to use lower-profile coolers like stock Intel i-series (which I don't recommend for near full speed operation since they have a round core and corner chips will probably run hot). Basically, I'm trying to give options without going crazy.

My test board will have some added instrumentation like output current measurement and extra pads to directly measure and manipulate. It's likely some of this won't be on the final version, unless y'all really want the functionality (at slightly added parts cost). If I don't run into issues with time management, I should be able to order some prototype boards tomorrow and they'd be in by probably middle of next week. During that interrim I have some other design tasks and some manufacturing to take care of.

After we have some working prototypes and the firmware is finished and tested, I'll raffle off at least one of the prototype pods and start taking in funds for a full batch. I don't know yet how big a full batch will be, but it looks like there's interest and materials enough already to merit about 100.

What about using some of the high end thermal pads with slight adhesion- I know the Phobya has some thermal pads that are in the 7 W/mK and the lower end Phobya is 5 W/mK.  I have never tried thermal pads with ASICS but it cannot be as bad as some of the manufacturers using a gallon of thermal compound.  I ask because it would alleviate the need for cooler mounting holes.

grindseeds, ASICMiner Block Erupter Tube and other miners use them in fact you can still buy the ones used for ASICMiner Block Erupter Tube here https://www.wtcr.ca/catalog/product/bm-amtbp-01 not sure how good they are or whats good but about find out the best ones to use.

[Meech]

I am excited for this pod miner!!

Just got one of the usb miners, works great. 

Have fun with it, with a stable high powered hub it's fun to see what it will do.
Oh and the flashy light thingies are fun too.

My future plans a couple months back weren't involving GekkoScience but it would be foolish
from my perspective not to put more effort in supporting this so called "Movement".  It above all
else is refreshing and to have an open forum of discussion here. 

Yes, I'm excited for the Pod as well.  What it brings isn't measured on hashrate but one more step closer
to a competing miner at a reasonable rate, possibly.  Not to mention a continued line of quality product
which will grow GekkoScience to a place it deserves to be.

[fvineyard]

Well I have yet to figure out how to vote in one of these polls. Perhaps I just come across them after the voting is complete?

Anyhow, I would be interested in the purchase at $50 option. I have no miners suitable for parts, so purchase is the only option for me.

Thanks for your efforts!

-fvineyard

[sidehack]

I think you select the option you like and then click "submit vote".

[kilo17]

Sidehack, are you accepting blades now? I am accumulating a pretty good supply and want to do what I can to see this take off.

[sidehack]

Nope. Not until I have a working prototype and I know I can start taking in for a batch. I didn't get the layout quite finished today (Mondays are usually catch-up days and Novak and I tend to burn several hours talking about awesome stuff) and since tomorrow I have a lot of packing and sandwiches to take care of it might not get done tomorrow either but I should be sending off for prototype boards Wednesday. I'd expect at least two weeks after that before I have it tested satisfactorily, which probably puts a November delivery out for a final product.

[Jake36]

Well I have yet to figure out how to vote in one of these polls. Perhaps I just come across them after the voting is complete?

Anyhow, I would be interested in the purchase at $50 option. I have no miners suitable for parts, so purchase is the only option for me.

Thanks for your efforts!

-fvineyard

You have to have a number of posts (20, 25??) to vote in the polls.

[Searing]

 Ah sidehack what you could do with these chips and some IPO $$$ (not impressed). Doing what you would do 'should' if you could get such high end chips
and  BW would be charging way way more $$$ to do so (turn to the darkside 'sidehack') just saying note below BW 14nm usb stick 34.6 to 63gh chip ONLY 0.86 btc (bulk of 333)
so even if you could get them at that price NOT in bulk of 333...even as a legit .pre-order this FALL at about 231 bucks a usb chip! and they will ship it to you sometime Winter 2016!

heh lame

here is the info

Here you go 14nm usb chip for the masses..you pay thru the nose for it....but a cute toy (and the joys it looks like of a pre-order raffle)

Info on BW company itself


https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/the-unknown-giant-a-first-look-inside-bw-one-of-china-s-oldest-and-largest-miners-1444675310

on the supposed 14nm product

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/bw-to-launch-nm-chip-and-miner-for-general-population-1445278227



from the above

quote


Along with the announcement of its bitcoin chip, the company has announced that it will be releasing a bitcoin miner for consumers that will launch in Winter 2016.
“The miners are now available for pre-order at a price of 0.87 BTC with a minimum order of 333 miners which is 1 petahash,” Virgilio Lizardo Jr., Head of International at Bitbank told Bitcoin Magazine in an exclusive interview. “This price will be available until November 11, 2015. This winter, the miners will be available with no minimum order required; the price at this time has not been decided yet.”

According to BW, each 14nm chip in the miner will be able to attain anywhere from 34.6-63GH/s. The power consumption is 18W based on a voltage of 0.59V to 0.76V.

end quote

So the above says (assuming you could get one w/o bulk at the bulk price above) it would be as I type this $230.99 for a 34.6GH to 63.0GH USB Stick!

Sheesh. I can get any number of ASIC miners NOW ..electric be damned for a better return then that! and still nerver  ROI indeed and have my no ROI Toys NOW!

But anyway another toy....but right now you could get 10 8gb usb stick Sidehack Gekko Miners (overclocked say to 10gh each) for 250 bucks would be 100gh NOW TODAY!
..so I sure as hell am not sure why the hell you would do the above on these BW sticks arriving in Winter 2016. The ROI is the same. A smile

but toys be toys I guess.

Sidehack sales thread here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1126705.0

Humans are nuts!

[kilo17]

I was under the impression that the BW preorder was for 333 miners at .87 BTC equalling about 1 Ph for a total of about 289.71 BTC

[Searing]

I was under the impression that the BW preorder was for 333 miners at .87 BTC equalling about 1 Ph for a total of about 289.71 BTC

Well if that is the case from the above I stand corrected...but they said 'bulk orders' in the above so usually that means 'a piece' then they hit you with the
amount you have to buy in bulk to get that price (or not)

I really doubt you are gonna get 333 usb miners for $289.71 usd it would be nice 1PH for $289.71. But again they are talking about 'miners' not 'chips' so
I think my price is correct on the above

(Never wanted to be more wrong in my life ..so if so ...point it out)

[notlist3d]

I was under the impression that the BW preorder was for 333 miners at .87 BTC equalling about 1 Ph for a total of about 289.71 BTC

Well if that is the case from the above I stand corrected...but they said 'bulk orders' in the above so usually that means 'a piece' then they hit you with the
amount you have to buy in bulk to get that price (or not)

I really doubt you are gonna get 333 usb miners for $289.71 usd it would be nice 1PH for $289.71. But again they are talking about 'miners' not 'chips' so
I think my price is correct on the above

(Never wanted to be more wrong in my life ..so if so ...point it out)

I did some math over here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1186100.msg12735287#msg12735287

I think there are some mis-commuications. It's around 289 BTC not USD.  So that likely added to it.   

[QuintLeo]

They appear to be talking about the same Lketc miners in the bottom-end 3TH version - this is NOT a bloody USB stick, whoever came up with that concept needs to go back to school and learn some basic math.

 The quote was in BTC, not $ - though even the quoted 0.87B per miner seems a little low even as a batch price, it WOULD be nice and competative and would make RoI on these things achievable!


 "per chip" does not specify "per miner".

[Searing]

I was under the impression that the BW preorder was for 333 miners at .87 BTC equalling about 1 Ph for a total of about 289.71 BTC

Well if that is the case from the above I stand corrected...but they said 'bulk orders' in the above so usually that means 'a piece' then they hit you with the
amount you have to buy in bulk to get that price (or not)

I really doubt you are gonna get 333 usb miners for $289.71 usd it would be nice 1PH for $289.71. But again they are talking about 'miners' not 'chips' so
I think my price is correct on the above

(Never wanted to be more wrong in my life ..so if so ...point it out)

I did some math over here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1186100.msg12735287#msg12735287

I think there are some mis-commuications. It's around 289 BTC not USD.  So that likely added to it.  

quote author=QuintLeo link=topic=1203190.msg12735338#msg12735338 date=1445330928]
They appear to be talking about the same Lketc miners in the bottom-end 3TH version - this is NOT a bloody USB stick, whoever came up with that concept needs to go back to school and learn some basic math.

 The quote was in BTC, not $ - though even the quoted 0.87B per miner seems a little low even as a batch price, it WOULD be nice and competative and would make RoI on these things achievable!


 "per chip" does not specify "per miner".


[/quote]


yeah I stand corrected it says 30.6gh to 63gh per chip per MINER if I remember the GH right...so not usb I did not 'see' it correctly

So yeah this could really really say at a 3 TH miner run the bitcoin difficulty past doubling in some kinda asic mnfg to chip to in house at cost to data hall and cheap china electric

..well gonna be quite the WAR imho ...and this stuff always seems to work out where it all hits the world at the same time


Heh! I got that wrong on both the BTC and the 'chips in miner" quote..could be worse I guess I could have been working for NASA and everyone woulda died!

Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times!

Indeeed!