December 2015 "Fastest Crypto" Bake-Off (topic locked)

[wingspan]

...
Hopefully somebody can set up such a test using our code base.
Unfortunately we're launching two real-time blockchains this month (BitShares and PeerTracks' MUSE) so we're a bit busy.
But we'll be keeping tabs on how this goes.
Thanks
Stan

I will postpone the October testing by 2 months - so those needing time can still participate.  Thanks - good luck preparing your crypto.  I'll update the OP, now, to reflect the delay.

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[wingspan]

even though there are two more months, if people would like to have me test early and then re-test later, I'd be happy to test your crypto exactly as I would in December - and I'll publish those early results if you like how you do.  That might encourage others to keep tuning their system...knowing what they are up against.

[r0ach]

I'm not sure why there's so much rush to test Emunie vs other cryptos.  Hughes should be required to actually release it first before any of this discussion happens.  Like I said earlier, ledger/balance sheet vs blockchains are not really an apples to apples comparison either.  The thing also has to exist in the wild for a while so people can diagnose if the system is functional in the real world.  It will then take months or years for people to discover all the miscellaneous vulnerabilities such as Bitcoin faced like faking shares, selfish mining, etc.

Since there is no real finite resource at play here (stake or PoW hash power), the simple act of modifying the client might open big holes.

[Fuserleer]

Hughes should be required to actually release it first before any of this discussion happens.  

Who made you law maker around here? The same should be said for other cryptos too then, as theres much discussion regarding various aspects of those before they are released, but I don't see you complaining there.

Like I said earlier, ledger/balance sheet vs blockchains are not really an apples to apples comparison either.

Why?  If both provide a public record, are secure, provide consensus, what exactly is the difference?

The thing also has to exist in the wild for a while so people can diagnose if the system is functional in the real world.  It will then take months or years for people to discover all the miscellaneous vulnerabilities such as Bitcoin faced like faking shares, selfish mining, etc.

Since there is no real finite resource at play here (stake or PoW hash power), the simple act of modifying the client might open big holes.

Oh come on, like this doesn't apply to all software, crypto or not.  The presence of POW, POS, POI, or whatever else is completely irrelevant!

[monsterer]

Why?  If both provide a public record, are secure, provide consensus, what exactly is the difference?

The big difference between having a chain and having no chain is that there is no recognisable ordering of transactions in a chainless system, the 'current state' is all that matters. With a chain, you can see the ordering, which makes validating the state a lot easier.

However, I believe emunie does have a chain, so this probably isn't relevant?

[patmast3r]

Why?  If both provide a public record, are secure, provide consensus, what exactly is the difference?

The big difference between having a chain and having no chain is that there is no recognisable ordering of transactions in a chainless system, the 'current state' is all that matters. With a chain, you can see the ordering, which makes validating the state a lot easier.

However, I believe emunie does have a chain, so this probably isn't relevant?

Is there any such system in crypto land that really doesn't have any sort of chain ?
Does a ledger (and I beliebe that's what emunie is using) not count as a chain ?

[Fuserleer]

OK, I'm going to clear something up, as r0ach's dis-information and assumptions about how our ledger is structured even before I've finished writing the public docs to explain it seem to be causing some confusion.

Legend:  Circle = Genesis, Box = Transaction/Block

First we had a good old block chain:



We scrapped block chains in Aug of 2013 for what we called "block trees"



They were themselves scrapped in Dec 2014 for "transaction channels"



As you can see in all cases, every transaction links to a previous one, in the same manner that a block does in a chain.  Previous transactions can easily be audited and are public.

These diagrams are from documentation I'm currently working on regarding our ledger design that will explain all the concepts and will put this "eMunie doesn't keep any historic information" argument to bed if this post doesn't.

[wingspan]

So, in eMunie, instead of nodes being blocks, you have nodes being 1 transaction only.  Instead of a chain of nodes, you have tree-like channels.   Still a ledger. Still tracks publicly the order of transactions.  Still allows state recovery just like blockchains.  OK, sounds intriguing.  Apples-to-Apples testing still possible.  Anyone disagree?

[Fuserleer]

So, in eMunie, instead of nodes being blocks, you have nodes being 1 transaction only.  Instead of a chain of nodes, you have a tree.   Still a ledger. Still tracks publicly the order of transactions.  Still allows state recovery just like blockchains.  OK, sounds intriguing.  Apples-to-Apples testing still possible.

Yeah pretty much, its kind of a hybrid.

There is a balance sheet ledger too that runs along side, but that has to verify against the current transaction ledger (and vice versa).

In the channeled implementation, its not really a chain nor a tree but more of a mid-way point between the two (trains or chees? lol).  The chains are allowed to fork out, but only on branches one link long.  Transactions are assigned a "transactional period", subsequent transactions must link to only one transaction in the previous transactional period as per a set requirements.

[Hangman01]

So this thread is really a bitshares, vanilla, emunie circle jerk.

Op grow so balls, the original idea of a speed test is good, your execution of it sucks. Why not start some testing already.

[Fuserleer]

So this thread is really a bitshares, vanilla, emunie circle jerk.

Op grow so balls, the original idea of a speed test is good, your execution of it sucks. Why not start some testing already.

I'm happy for OP to do some testing of eMunie next week with the next beta.

As for the circle jerk, get some other cryptos to step up, then it won't be will it?  Or the OP could start testing released cryptos that have made speed claims I guess.

[Hangman01]

Lets see, reading through the thread I am mistaken. There is a forth entrant, though ignored.

Geist geld. I don't know what it is but it looks old.



Edit. If people dont like what i'm saying then win this account from me.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1203783.msg12636241#msg12636241

[hughbt]

So this thread is really a bitshares, vanilla, emunie circle jerk.

Op grow so balls, the original idea of a speed test is good, your execution of it sucks. Why not start some testing already.

It's all about money. He is not going to start testing untill there will be some contestants. But it's pretty obvious it is going to be a circle jerk, there is nothing bad about it. Some cryptos are obviously faster than the other ones, that's why there will only be few contestants(if any, but that's because of entry fee). On the other hand this is probably a lot of work so there should be a reward for the tester.

0.2 BTC Entry Fee and a pay-back BTC address. (The winner gets back his/her entry fee.) Pay to 1C6nd36KSm6sqAhjEFqd91nNpJkq4sVEUL.  PM me links to the entry items and the BTC timestamp of payment.

[Hangman01]

Ah ok. The op was never serious about testing then. If he wanted then he could test geist geld today.

Sounds like a lame attempt to get some free btc



Edit. Op should do an ipo,  give me money thingy

[onemorexmr]

Ah ok. The op was never serious about testing then. If he wanted then he could test geist geld today.

Sounds like a lame attempt to get some free btc



Edit. Op should do an ipo,  give me money thingy

OP said he wants 0.2BTC für a test. IMHO That amount is ok for the kind of setup he described and the transactions fees he has to pay.

[Fuserleer]

Ah ok. The op was never serious about testing then. If he wanted then he could test geist geld today.

Sounds like a lame attempt to get some free btc



Edit. Op should do an ipo,  give me money thingy

Then tell the geist geld devs, or ask the community to chip in.  0.2BTC is fair IMO, costs of hardware to rent/buy to do the tests, electricity use, time spent setting the tests up, managing them etc...

If you dont trust the OP, then have him make a multi-sig wallet with all the developers as co-signers.

[Hangman01]

And how do we know if op is qualified to do testing or will even do it correct?

A panel is needed. So the op doesnt just pick favorites from all the grandstanding in this thread already.

Tests need to be run by mult people, and youtubed for fairness.

[Fuserleer]

And how do we know if op is qualified to do testing or will even do it correct?

A panel is needed. So the op doesnt just pick favorites from all the grandstanding in this thread already.

Tests need to be run by mult people, and youtubed for fairness.

Providing he presents the test results including the data from the tests, then anyone can verify the results....that is the beauty of crypto, block chains etc...  So its impossible for him to "pick" his favorite and say that one won.

As for him doing the tests wrong, feel free to reproduce the tests yourself to adjudicate

I don't imaging anyone is going to take these results as defacto, or chose a technology for a project without doing further testing themselves.

Ultimately I see this test as a means to have a bit of fun, spur some rivalry, competitiveness and allocate bragging rights at best.  I welcome it, especially as this community has frankly grown quite stale, boring and has become far too serious for its own good.  

Everyone complains about bankers, yet all that happens around here is the same thing, endless threads on what coin is going to make the most fiat, whos scamming who, and generally a complete focus entirely on profit.  Where did the passion go?

[Hangman01]

Well then you better get back to coding emunie then.

Lets hope your project is as fast as you reply. Unless of course you convince the op to move the tests back many months again cause how long now have you been talking shit about your "speedy" "working" project?

[Fuserleer]

Well then you better get back to coding emunie then.

Lets hope your project is as fast as you reply. Unless of course you convince the op to move the tests back many months again cause how long now have you been talking shit about your "speedy" "working" project?

Ahh here cometh the trash talk Better go to specsavers and get some new glasses!

I'm happy for OP to do some testing of eMunie next week with the next beta.