Why does a scammer have positive trust?

[newtons1]

I would like to know how it is possible that a scammer can have positive trust?

bitponzi.io has a trust rating of 10: -0 / +1 yet he is a scammer:

fkin shut down!!! Sent 4 BTC in all, only got 1.8 back?!

What did you expect from a ponzi? All ponzi are guaranteed to be a scam, sooner or later.

They seem to have stolen at least .1 BTC from their players using 1290db3346ae15108d253fad749dae79dcd62d9975da0e01d867346342620c1c possibly to either bitstamp or another service that has been around since at least 2011.

I also think most ponzi's are regarded to be generally untrustworthy, but it is unclear why this is different.

Here is the entire thread for the scam.

Screenshot of their trust:


Is it common to see someone have positive trust who is running a ponzi and who has scammed like this?

Is this some kind of undisclosed flaw in the trust system? If so is there any kind of bug bounty for reporting bugs in the trust system?

[mexxer-2]

Same thing with Primedime only difference is that they have "stolen" over 2btc by my estimates and has been given a Positive feedback from bitwarrior, who seems to be in Depth 3/4.

[newtons1]

Someone from default trust seem him as an honest guys so he gave me positive trust according to this : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=347554

Shouldn't someone on default trust have better judgment then to give an obvious scam positive trust?

Isn't the point of being on default trust that the person give trust ratings that are relied on by others by default? If someone is giving out positive trust to obvious scams then why is everyone seeing ratings by default?

[Laosai]

I can see some ponzi owners in the investor based games sections that openly admitted (some of them were quite honest cuz they managed to run for months and even until now) that they were running ponzis but instead of getting positive trust, they received a negative trust rating. It's kinda confusing Anyways I guess that's useless now since the site is not working anymore and that account has been last active on july 2014 that seems abandoned

[neochiny]

im not really sure about this.
but i saw some people here buying trusts.
for a few mbtc's... and some are really doing this.
what i really dont understand. is why people,
still invest even they know the sites are ponzi?
being greedy is coming back to them.

[iram66680]

im not really sure about this.
but i saw some people here buying trusts.
for a few mbtc's... and some are really doing this.
what i really dont understand. is why people,
still invest even they know the sites are ponzi?
being greedy is coming back to them.

It has never been possible to buy trust from default trust as it is easy to see and you would get removed if you do so. Doolgus is trusted enough and I believe that he wouldn't be bribed. I believe that it was before the neutral trust system was introduced and if possible, doolgus should place a neutral instead of a positive one.

[Laosai]

im not really sure about this.
but i saw some people here buying trusts.
for a few mbtc's... and some are really doing this.
what i really dont understand. is why people,
still invest even they know the sites are ponzi?
being greedy is coming back to them.

Lol I doubt dooglus will let someone buy his positive feedback for a few mBTCs cuz he seems to be a reputable member of this forum. But I still don't get why he left a positive feedback on that account.

[james.lent]

Dooglus might have forgot to update his feedback..

[KWH]

I would like to know how it is possible that a scammer can have positive trust?

bitponzi.io has a trust rating of 10: -0 / +1 yet he is a scammer:

fkin shut down!!! Sent 4 BTC in all, only got 1.8 back?!

What did you expect from a ponzi? All ponzi are guaranteed to be a scam, sooner or later.

They seem to have stolen at least .1 BTC from their players using 1290db3346ae15108d253fad749dae79dcd62d9975da0e01d867346342620c1c possibly to either bitstamp or another service that has been around since at least 2011.

I also think most ponzi's are regarded to be generally untrustworthy, but it is unclear why this is different.

Here is the entire thread for the scam.

Screenshot of their trust:


Is it common to see someone have positive trust who is running a ponzi and who has scammed like this?

Is this some kind of undisclosed flaw in the trust system? If so is there any kind of bug bounty for reporting bugs in the trust system?

First of all, this thread is over a year old. Secondly, your best bet is to PM Dooglus and ask if he would consider a Neutral instead of the Positive.

[tmfp]

Smells to me like episode 548: An Attempt to discredit Dooglus post from a certain -2024 trust member.

In the context of a year ago, Ponzi schemes that openly stated, like this one, the way in which they worked, i.e. later players ran the risk of losing their money to pay for the earlier players profits, were seen as a different animal to conventional ponzi scams that lied and said "We forex/arbitrage/whatever and you can make X% a day for ever".
Dooglus states this quite clearly in his feedback and it was the forum's acceptance of 'last in loses' type games that were upfront about it that led to the establishment of the "Investor Games" section.

Nothing to see here, just REVENGE.

[newtons1]

First of all, this thread is over a year old. Secondly, your best bet is to PM Dooglus and ask if he would consider a Neutral instead of the Positive.

I sent Dooglus a PM asking him to reconsider his positive trust.

I was just curious how the trust system works because it is strange to see a scammer have such a high trust score, and thought it might be a glitch in the trust system.

[shorena]

First of all, this thread is over a year old. Secondly, your best bet is to PM Dooglus and ask if he would consider a Neutral instead of the Positive.

I sent Dooglus a PM asking him to reconsider his positive trust.

I was just curious how the trust system works because it is strange to see a scammer have such a high trust score, and thought it might be a glitch in the trust system.

10 is not a high score. Its the highest one can get for a single rating, but that comes with age not with trustworthiness.

[lightenx]

It's his friend or have bought it

[newtons1]

First of all, this thread is over a year old. Secondly, your best bet is to PM Dooglus and ask if he would consider a Neutral instead of the Positive.

I sent Dooglus a PM asking him to reconsider his positive trust.

I was just curious how the trust system works because it is strange to see a scammer have such a high trust score, and thought it might be a glitch in the trust system.

10 is not a high score. Its the highest one can get for a single rating, but that comes with age not with trustworthyness.

I am surprised that scammers have any positive trust at all, and would think they would only have negative trust, especially after actually scamming. I don't even understand what he did to deserve the positive trust

It's his friend or have bought it

Do you have any evidence that it is a friend of Dooglus? I don't think it is okay to give your friend positive trust like that.

[mexxer-2]

It's his friend or have bought it

Do you have any evidence that it is a friend of Dooglus? I don't think it is okay to give your friend positive trust like that.

Its likely that the person has either no idea what he is talking about or is just posting to increase his post count for farming purposes. At any rate, about giving your friends Positive trust I think it is more or less allowed to give friends, which are people you trust hence the trusted feedback, and I have seen a hecka lot of people doing it too.

[newtons1]

It's his friend or have bought it

Do you have any evidence that it is a friend of Dooglus? I don't think it is okay to give your friend positive trust like that.

Its likely that the person has either no idea what he is talking about or is just posting to increase his post count for farming purposes. At any rate, about giving your friends Positive trust I think it is more or less allowed to give friends, which are people you trust hence the trusted feedback, and I have seen a hecka lot of people doing it too.

So people often give positive feedback to their friend and then their friend scams, and you think that is okay? In a since those who are giving feedback to their friends are making it easier for their friends to scam. Do you think these kinds of people should be held accountable for this?

[lightenx]

It's his friend or have bought it

Do you have any evidence that it is a friend of Dooglus? I don't think it is okay to give your friend positive trust like that.

Its likely that the person has either no idea what he is talking about or is just posting to increase his post count for farming purposes. At any rate, about giving your friends Positive trust I think it is more or less allowed to give friends, which are people you trust hence the trusted feedback, and I have seen a hecka lot of people doing it too.

So people often give positive feedback to their friend and then their friend scams, and you think that is okay? In a since those who are giving feedback to their friends are making it easier for their friends to scam. Do you think these kinds of people should be held accountable for this?

For a scam, every single positive trust can help scam users. So he could tell his friend: "Hey bro i'll split with you"
There are some DefaultTrust members he can pay to.

[newtons1]

It's his friend or have bought it

Do you have any evidence that it is a friend of Dooglus? I don't think it is okay to give your friend positive trust like that.

Its likely that the person has either no idea what he is talking about or is just posting to increase his post count for farming purposes. At any rate, about giving your friends Positive trust I think it is more or less allowed to give friends, which are people you trust hence the trusted feedback, and I have seen a hecka lot of people doing it too.

So people often give positive feedback to their friend and then their friend scams, and you think that is okay? In a since those who are giving feedback to their friends are making it easier for their friends to scam. Do you think these kinds of people should be held accountable for this?

For a scam, every single positive trust can help scam users. So he could tell his friend: "Hey bro i'll split with you"
There are some DefaultTrust members he can pay to.

Do you have evidence that dooglus is engaging in this kind of practice? Surely if dooglus has only given positive trust to a scammer then it must be an honest mistake. There aren't any other example of dooglus giving positive trust to other scammers are there?

Secondly, your best bet is to PM Dooglus and ask if he would consider a Neutral instead of the Positive.

I sent dooglus the below PM, however he has not responded nor has he removed his positive trust for the scammer

Hi Sir,

Can you reconsider your feedback for bitponzi.io because it looks like they scammed someone out of at least .1 BTC. Maybe you can change it to a neutral or a negative.

You have it as a positive now.

All the best,
Cam

Dooglus has been online since I sent the PM, and he has even posted. He posted about nothing other then him bragging about cheating a casino back in 2012:

I was winning too much, but I was also reporting too many bugs, being too pedantic about stuff, and taking advantage of +EV offers. I was also referring friends to the site and the owner thought they weren't real people, even after having spoken to at least one of them on Skype with me.

woa how u did that?? haha care to share what happen previously? and ur stragety???

I was winning by counting cards at blackjack. I had discussed the strategy with the site owner, and he was fine with it. He even went so far as to tell me my strategy wouldn't work because I was doing it wrong. I was leaving the table whenever the count went negative rather than playing the shoe out until it went positive again. Sitting at a new table gave me a new shoe with a 0 count, which I figured had to be better than the negative shoe I was playing with, so I'd switch, and it worked.

Bear in mind that the above statement is a bliant lie, the part about him having permission to cheat the casino. I would recommond reading this, and this thread, and judge for yourself. Most specifically this post where dooglus implies that he was self colluding in order to gain an advantage in a poker tournament. 

Dooglus doesn't have any kind of history of exploiting weaknesses in casinos does he?

[mexxer-2]

So people often give positive feedback to their friend and then their friend scams, and you think that is okay? In a since those who are giving feedback to their friends are making it easier for their friends to scam. Do you think these kinds of people should be held accountable for this?

I'm sure you don't get friends with someone on the net in like a week or so, the "trusted" friends that I am talking about here are most likely are real world guys who may live near each other or know them from internet since/before bcttalk existed. And if you have noticed, many people also give a feedback like "Know him for a long time is a good guy" like feedbacks. If you want to talk about trust farming here is a thread I made about it several weeks ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1197533.0

[Quickseller]

The account listed in the OP should be given negative trust for two reasons:

1) they scammed
2) If one of their alts is found, then the person who finds their alts will more easily know to call them out for scamming from an alt, and with the negative trust the scam is more evident.

In regards to the question of the OP, the person who left the trust has a pretty long history of leaving positive trust for people who are either known scammers, or people who turned out to be a scammer.

Dooglus has left positive trust for the following scammers:

• MRKYLE
• bitponzi.io (the account in the OP)
• dicebitcoin
• the account behind dice.ninja (I don't see it there now however he was endorsing them via his signature)
• tspacepilot

Dooglus has left positive trust for a total of 14 accounts, 15 if you count the dice.ninja account whose positive rating is not currently there. This means that 33% of dooglus's sent positive ratings were sent to scammers. When you leave positive trust for this many people, I think people should start asking questions.....