I'm a Rocket Scientist 🚀

[exemplaar]

How many years we have been told that mankind was on the moon. But recently things have changed. Why 40 years and no one is flying to the moon, it's not expensive to fly. It seems to me that something was indeed found there, and that there are concerns.

There probably is something there. The Revelation in the Bible tells about the great dragon - the devil, Satan - and his angels/demons being flung to the earth. If they were sent to the earth so they couldn't get back up there, they must have left some evidence of themselves behind.

The New Testament tells us that the world is under the control of the devil... except for the people who believe in Jesus salvation, that is. The devil is trying to get back into the "sky" to retrieve some of his forces and equipment that are still up there. This is why we have a space program. It is also why there is a flat earth propaganda program.

The devil wants to get back to some of his equipment up there, to try to re-ignite the war with God, and maybe win this time. He is using mankind to do it for him, in the form of NASA and some of the space programs of the other countries.

But, he doesn't want all of mankind to know about his equipment up there. So, he is creating the flat earth propaganda machine to hide the fact of space, so that his equipment will remain as completely hidden as possible.

NASA will still go to the moon and beyond. They will still retrieve the devil's weapons for him. It's just that the majority of us will never know it once flat earth becomes the popular thing.

Do you even read GOD's Word? Apparently not. Too busy posting here.

It clearly states that moon is a light. Not an object you could land on. Get sober man.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

[1715676069]

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[Gimpeline]

The God of the bible is an idiot. Created the plants before the sun. Didn't know that the moon isn't a light and so on
Sounds like a iron age sheep hearder made this bull up..
Oh whait. They did

[nomad13666]

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rockets+are+fake

[BADecker]

The God of the bible is an idiot. Created the plants before the sun. Didn't know that the moon isn't a light and so on
Sounds like a iron age sheep hearder made this bull up..
Oh whait. They did

But it worked for God. You and I can't even hang onto our own lives in the face of strong disaster... to say nothing about not being able to create anything other than some abstract silliness.

[BADecker]

How many years we have been told that mankind was on the moon. But recently things have changed. Why 40 years and no one is flying to the moon, it's not expensive to fly. It seems to me that something was indeed found there, and that there are concerns.

There probably is something there. The Revelation in the Bible tells about the great dragon - the devil, Satan - and his angels/demons being flung to the earth. If they were sent to the earth so they couldn't get back up there, they must have left some evidence of themselves behind.

The New Testament tells us that the world is under the control of the devil... except for the people who believe in Jesus salvation, that is. The devil is trying to get back into the "sky" to retrieve some of his forces and equipment that are still up there. This is why we have a space program. It is also why there is a flat earth propaganda program.

The devil wants to get back to some of his equipment up there, to try to re-ignite the war with God, and maybe win this time. He is using mankind to do it for him, in the form of NASA and some of the space programs of the other countries.

But, he doesn't want all of mankind to know about his equipment up there. So, he is creating the flat earth propaganda machine to hide the fact of space, so that his equipment will remain as completely hidden as possible.

NASA will still go to the moon and beyond. They will still retrieve the devil's weapons for him. It's just that the majority of us will never know it once flat earth becomes the popular thing.

Do you even read GOD's Word? Apparently not. Too busy posting here.

It clearly states that moon is a light. Not an object you could land on. Get sober man.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Do you even read what your post says rather than reading into it what you want? The parts of Genesis you quoted say nothing about the sun and the moon. Other places in Scripture suggest that this is talking about God the Father and Jesus.

The moon is a light, and now we know how it works. The sun is a light as well, and now we know that it works through electric plasma.

[Johnyloco]

How many years we have been told that mankind was on the moon. But recently things have changed. Why 40 years and no one is flying to the moon, it's not expensive to fly. It seems to me that something was indeed found there, and that there are concerns.

There probably is something there. The Revelation in the Bible tells about the great dragon - the devil, Satan - and his angels/demons being flung to the earth. If they were sent to the earth so they couldn't get back up there, they must have left some evidence of themselves behind.

The New Testament tells us that the world is under the control of the devil... except for the people who believe in Jesus salvation, that is. The devil is trying to get back into the "sky" to retrieve some of his forces and equipment that are still up there. This is why we have a space program. It is also why there is a flat earth propaganda program.

The devil wants to get back to some of his equipment up there, to try to re-ignite the war with God, and maybe win this time. He is using mankind to do it for him, in the form of NASA and some of the space programs of the other countries.

But, he doesn't want all of mankind to know about his equipment up there. So, he is creating the flat earth propaganda machine to hide the fact of space, so that his equipment will remain as completely hidden as possible.

NASA will still go to the moon and beyond. They will still retrieve the devil's weapons for him. It's just that the majority of us will never know it once flat earth becomes the popular thing.

Do you even read GOD's Word? Apparently not. Too busy posting here.

It clearly states that moon is a light. Not an object you could land on. Get sober man.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Do you even read what your post says rather than reading into it what you want? The parts of Genesis you quoted say nothing about the sun and the moon. Other places in Scripture suggest that this is talking about God the Father and Jesus.

The moon is a light, and now we know how it works. The sun is a light as well, and now we know that it works through electric plasma.

If you know how the sun works, but it still kills you tomorrow, what is the use of it? ( and how good do you know it ). I know that if a person don't get food and water, that person will die sooner or later - though - it seems unfair to claim great human knowlege because of that

[BADecker]

How many years we have been told that mankind was on the moon. But recently things have changed. Why 40 years and no one is flying to the moon, it's not expensive to fly. It seems to me that something was indeed found there, and that there are concerns.

There probably is something there. The Revelation in the Bible tells about the great dragon - the devil, Satan - and his angels/demons being flung to the earth. If they were sent to the earth so they couldn't get back up there, they must have left some evidence of themselves behind.

The New Testament tells us that the world is under the control of the devil... except for the people who believe in Jesus salvation, that is. The devil is trying to get back into the "sky" to retrieve some of his forces and equipment that are still up there. This is why we have a space program. It is also why there is a flat earth propaganda program.

The devil wants to get back to some of his equipment up there, to try to re-ignite the war with God, and maybe win this time. He is using mankind to do it for him, in the form of NASA and some of the space programs of the other countries.

But, he doesn't want all of mankind to know about his equipment up there. So, he is creating the flat earth propaganda machine to hide the fact of space, so that his equipment will remain as completely hidden as possible.

NASA will still go to the moon and beyond. They will still retrieve the devil's weapons for him. It's just that the majority of us will never know it once flat earth becomes the popular thing.

Do you even read GOD's Word? Apparently not. Too busy posting here.

It clearly states that moon is a light. Not an object you could land on. Get sober man.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Do you even read what your post says rather than reading into it what you want? The parts of Genesis you quoted say nothing about the sun and the moon. Other places in Scripture suggest that this is talking about God the Father and Jesus.

The moon is a light, and now we know how it works. The sun is a light as well, and now we know that it works through electric plasma.

If you know how the sun works, but it still kills you tomorrow, what is the use of it? ( and how good do you know it ). I know that if a person don't get food and water, that person will die sooner or later - though - it seems unfair to claim great human knowlege because of that

Generally speaking, gaining food comes by planting and harvesting, and water by digging a well or filling your jug at the river. It generally doesn't have anything to do with rocket science.

Some of the knowledge about the sun comes through rocket science, because rockets have been used to send out probes that have gathered more information about the sun than we can get directly by observation from here on earth.

If you eat the wrong food, or if the food is spoiled, or if the water you drink is poisoned, or if it has bad microbes in it, you can die from food and water. Improperly built rockets can kill people as well. Few people die from the sun, because most know that they need to take enough water along with them through the desert.

What are you talking about?

[Johnyloco]

How many years we have been told that mankind was on the moon. But recently things have changed. Why 40 years and no one is flying to the moon, it's not expensive to fly. It seems to me that something was indeed found there, and that there are concerns.

There probably is something there. The Revelation in the Bible tells about the great dragon - the devil, Satan - and his angels/demons being flung to the earth. If they were sent to the earth so they couldn't get back up there, they must have left some evidence of themselves behind.

The New Testament tells us that the world is under the control of the devil... except for the people who believe in Jesus salvation, that is. The devil is trying to get back into the "sky" to retrieve some of his forces and equipment that are still up there. This is why we have a space program. It is also why there is a flat earth propaganda program.

The devil wants to get back to some of his equipment up there, to try to re-ignite the war with God, and maybe win this time. He is using mankind to do it for him, in the form of NASA and some of the space programs of the other countries.

But, he doesn't want all of mankind to know about his equipment up there. So, he is creating the flat earth propaganda machine to hide the fact of space, so that his equipment will remain as completely hidden as possible.

NASA will still go to the moon and beyond. They will still retrieve the devil's weapons for him. It's just that the majority of us will never know it once flat earth becomes the popular thing.

Do you even read GOD's Word? Apparently not. Too busy posting here.

It clearly states that moon is a light. Not an object you could land on. Get sober man.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Do you even read what your post says rather than reading into it what you want? The parts of Genesis you quoted say nothing about the sun and the moon. Other places in Scripture suggest that this is talking about God the Father and Jesus.

The moon is a light, and now we know how it works. The sun is a light as well, and now we know that it works through electric plasma.

If you know how the sun works, but it still kills you tomorrow, what is the use of it? ( and how good do you know it ). I know that if a person don't get food and water, that person will die sooner or later - though - it seems unfair to claim great human knowlege because of that

Generally speaking, gaining food comes by planting and harvesting, and water by digging a well or filling your jug at the river. It generally doesn't have anything to do with rocket science.

Some of the knowledge about the sun comes through rocket science, because rockets have been used to send out probes that have gathered more information about the sun than we can get directly by observation from here on earth.

If you eat the wrong food, or if the food is spoiled, or if the water you drink is poisoned, or if it has bad microbes in it, you can die from food and water. Improperly built rockets can kill people as well. Few people die from the sun, because most know that they need to take enough water along with them through the desert.

What are you talking about?

Atleast you're sure to keep your sunglasses on

[BADecker]

How many years we have been told that mankind was on the moon. But recently things have changed. Why 40 years and no one is flying to the moon, it's not expensive to fly. It seems to me that something was indeed found there, and that there are concerns.

There probably is something there. The Revelation in the Bible tells about the great dragon - the devil, Satan - and his angels/demons being flung to the earth. If they were sent to the earth so they couldn't get back up there, they must have left some evidence of themselves behind.

The New Testament tells us that the world is under the control of the devil... except for the people who believe in Jesus salvation, that is. The devil is trying to get back into the "sky" to retrieve some of his forces and equipment that are still up there. This is why we have a space program. It is also why there is a flat earth propaganda program.

The devil wants to get back to some of his equipment up there, to try to re-ignite the war with God, and maybe win this time. He is using mankind to do it for him, in the form of NASA and some of the space programs of the other countries.

But, he doesn't want all of mankind to know about his equipment up there. So, he is creating the flat earth propaganda machine to hide the fact of space, so that his equipment will remain as completely hidden as possible.

NASA will still go to the moon and beyond. They will still retrieve the devil's weapons for him. It's just that the majority of us will never know it once flat earth becomes the popular thing.

Do you even read GOD's Word? Apparently not. Too busy posting here.

It clearly states that moon is a light. Not an object you could land on. Get sober man.

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Do you even read what your post says rather than reading into it what you want? The parts of Genesis you quoted say nothing about the sun and the moon. Other places in Scripture suggest that this is talking about God the Father and Jesus.

The moon is a light, and now we know how it works. The sun is a light as well, and now we know that it works through electric plasma.

If you know how the sun works, but it still kills you tomorrow, what is the use of it? ( and how good do you know it ). I know that if a person don't get food and water, that person will die sooner or later - though - it seems unfair to claim great human knowlege because of that

Generally speaking, gaining food comes by planting and harvesting, and water by digging a well or filling your jug at the river. It generally doesn't have anything to do with rocket science.

Some of the knowledge about the sun comes through rocket science, because rockets have been used to send out probes that have gathered more information about the sun than we can get directly by observation from here on earth.

If you eat the wrong food, or if the food is spoiled, or if the water you drink is poisoned, or if it has bad microbes in it, you can die from food and water. Improperly built rockets can kill people as well. Few people die from the sun, because most know that they need to take enough water along with them through the desert.

What are you talking about?

Atleast you're sure to keep your sunglasses on

Sunglasses are a wise thing at times. The sun is very bright. As people get older, cataracts form in their eyes if the pupils in their eyes lose some of their sensitivity. Cataracts are protection for the sensitive nerves of the retina if the pupils don't limit the light properly.

Sunglasses can keep cataracts from forming as rapidly. This means that older people will not have such "thick" cataracts, and they will be able to see in the dark better. So, sunglasses are a good thing.

What do sunglasses have to do with rocket science? Why did you bring it up?

[Gimpeline]

The God of the bible is an idiot. Created the plants before the sun. Didn't know that the moon isn't a light and so on
Sounds like a iron age sheep hearder made this bull up..
Oh whait. They did

But it worked for God. You and I can't even hang onto our own lives in the face of strong disaster... to say nothing about not being able to create anything other than some abstract silliness.

So why did he think the moon is a light if he is all knowing?
Sounds more like iron age mind set
he created the thing, and don't even know what it is?

[BADecker]

The God of the bible is an idiot. Created the plants before the sun. Didn't know that the moon isn't a light and so on
Sounds like a iron age sheep hearder made this bull up..
Oh whait. They did

But it worked for God. You and I can't even hang onto our own lives in the face of strong disaster... to say nothing about not being able to create anything other than some abstract silliness.

So why did he think the moon is a light if he is all knowing?
Sounds more like iron age mind set
he created the thing, and don't even know what it is?

Just so that you know something...

You don't know what God thinks. The evidence for this is that you don't know much of anything else, either.

[Gimpeline]

The God of the bible is an idiot. Created the plants before the sun. Didn't know that the moon isn't a light and so on
Sounds like a iron age sheep hearder made this bull up..
Oh whait. They did

But it worked for God. You and I can't even hang onto our own lives in the face of strong disaster... to say nothing about not being able to create anything other than some abstract silliness.

So why did he think the moon is a light if he is all knowing?
Sounds more like iron age mind set
he created the thing, and don't even know what it is?

Just so that you know something...

You don't know what God thinks. The evidence for this is that you don't know much of anything else, either.

So far it looks like he doesn't think. The moon is a light 
The guy must be braindead or made up from a iron age brain 

[BADecker]

The God of the bible is an idiot. Created the plants before the sun. Didn't know that the moon isn't a light and so on
Sounds like a iron age sheep hearder made this bull up..
Oh whait. They did

But it worked for God. You and I can't even hang onto our own lives in the face of strong disaster... to say nothing about not being able to create anything other than some abstract silliness.

So why did he think the moon is a light if he is all knowing?
Sounds more like iron age mind set
he created the thing, and don't even know what it is?

Just so that you know something...

You don't know what God thinks. The evidence for this is that you don't know much of anything else, either.

So far it looks like he doesn't think. The moon is a light 
The guy must be braindead or made up from a iron age brain 

How much does the moon weigh? The moon isn't a light. It's a "heavy."   

[Gimpeline]

The God of the bible is an idiot. Created the plants before the sun. Didn't know that the moon isn't a light and so on
Sounds like a iron age sheep hearder made this bull up..
Oh whait. They did

But it worked for God. You and I can't even hang onto our own lives in the face of strong disaster... to say nothing about not being able to create anything other than some abstract silliness.

So why did he think the moon is a light if he is all knowing?
Sounds more like iron age mind set
he created the thing, and don't even know what it is?

Just so that you know something...

You don't know what God thinks. The evidence for this is that you don't know much of anything else, either.

So far it looks like he doesn't think. The moon is a light  
The guy must be braindead or made up from a iron age brain  

How much does the moon weigh? The moon isn't a light. It's a "heavy."    

Bullshit and you know it.
The moon is not a light

[exemplaar]

Are you stupid or unable to read? Let's try one more time:

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The Creator of all saw that it was good, so who are you little man, to dictate what is good and what is not.

[BADecker]

Are you stupid or unable to read? Let's try one more time:

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The Creator of all saw that it was good, so who are you little man, to dictate what is good and what is not.

Re-dictate.   

[Gilf]

Are you stupid or unable to read? Let's try one more time:

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The Creator of all saw that it was good, so who are you little man, to dictate what is good and what is not.

Re-dictate.   

You forgot the words that Jesus spoke? He said that the need to give God something that he needs, and to give to Caesar what belongs to him.

[BADecker]

Are you stupid or unable to read? Let's try one more time:

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The Creator of all saw that it was good, so who are you little man, to dictate what is good and what is not.

Re-dictate.   

You forgot the words that Jesus spoke? He said that the need to give God something that he needs, and to give to Caesar what belongs to him.

Just like Satan. Always twisting God's words. Jesus didn't say to give God something that He needs. Jesus said to give to God what God already owns: “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

[Lorik]

Are you stupid or unable to read? Let's try one more time:

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The Creator of all saw that it was good, so who are you little man, to dictate what is good and what is not.

Re-dictate.   

You forgot the words that Jesus spoke? He said that the need to give God something that he needs, and to give to Caesar what belongs to him.

Just like Satan. Always twisting God's words. Jesus didn't say to give God something that He needs. Jesus said to give to God what God already owns: “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

God does not own souls. He needs them. It requires people to choose their own path and those who believe, give the soul to God. As well as the money is not Caesar's. They gained people.

[BADecker]

Are you stupid or unable to read? Let's try one more time:

Gen 1:14  And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Gen 1:15  And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
Gen 1:16  And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
Gen 1:17  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Gen 1:18  And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

The Creator of all saw that it was good, so who are you little man, to dictate what is good and what is not.

Re-dictate.   

You forgot the words that Jesus spoke? He said that the need to give God something that he needs, and to give to Caesar what belongs to him.

Just like Satan. Always twisting God's words. Jesus didn't say to give God something that He needs. Jesus said to give to God what God already owns: “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

God does not own souls. He needs them. It requires people to choose their own path and those who believe, give the soul to God. As well as the money is not Caesar's. They gained people.

God doesn't need souls. He is not just a little bit God. He is God Almighty, way beyond understanding. His ways are limitless. If all souls were suddenly gone, He would simply find the next of an infinite number of ways available to Him to get what He wants.

We, the souls, need God. We can't sustain ourselves. We need God to do it for us. God in His love is willing, if we are willing.

All things belong to God because He created it all. He gives us all things including money. Giving some money back to God is an opportunity for us to show our gratitude to Him. He doesn't need it. He can create all the gold and silver that He wants.

Give to God what already belongs to God. Give to other people whatever belongs to them.