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Author Topic: bit pit - (LP, ESMPPS, 8-decimal payout, SSL, API, 0% fee, Almost 0% Stales!)  (Read 48816 times)
1bitc0inplz
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July 17, 2011, 12:00:43 PM
 #421

Great job everyone, we had two quick blocks in a row yesterday!

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zoro
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July 17, 2011, 02:29:02 PM
 #422

according to statistics this is usual for this pool Cheesy
i would expect the same thing in one or 2 days from now!

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July 17, 2011, 03:04:16 PM
 #423

Thanks everyone for your input. We are currently working on running some simulations to determine the behavior of the various PPS methods described above.

We hope to have some feedback shortly, but in the mean-time we are still very much interested in everyone's opinions.

please do something against hopping like smpps. Together with the low stales this would make a formidable pool.

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1bitc0inplz
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July 17, 2011, 03:57:19 PM
 #424


please do something against hopping like smpps. Together with the low stales this would make a formidable pool.

We are going to, and hopefully very soon. However, SMPPS has some fatal flaws and we are currently trying to model a few variants of SMPPS that should make it better.

I think the opinion of everybody has been that we should change from proportional to something else, and that something else should reduce variance (e.g., one of the many PPS variants).

So, at this point, it's simply a matter of us figuring out which PPS variant we all feel comfortable with, and switching to it. Switching to another reward system is going to be the easy part. For most of the PPS variants the code is pretty simple, and we'd switch over at the start of a new round.

In fact, the code for a variant we're calling xPPS is already done. Though, we're not entirely sure if this one is our best option.

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July 17, 2011, 07:58:43 PM
 #425

wow! 140GH! with 100GH we have 1 block/day. then prop is working just fine!
i would say to monitor the pool behavior for a while before any changes are made Smiley

I agree with zoro. unfortunately my ISP had problems again - I was offline since saturday morning till a few hours ago. that is why I missed the short round, too Undecided
I think prop. is fine, until we really know how much pool hoopers there are. is there any way to meassure that?

and btw, the current shares are displayed wrong, I think they are over 1 million shares till now, but there are only 438000 displayed.

cheers iro
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July 17, 2011, 08:01:31 PM
 #426

Don't forget that the hoppers aren't the problem. They just aren't willing to work for the pool when it's paying less than market value for the shares. The problem is that the pool is rewarding predictably uneven (including above and below the market value).

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July 17, 2011, 08:11:22 PM
 #427

Don't forget that the hoppers aren't the problem. They just aren't willing to work for the pool when it's paying less than market value for the shares. The problem is that the pool is rewarding predictably uneven (including above and below the market value).

Agreed,

We want everyone to get paid fairly. That is why we are currently looking into the various other reward systems.

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July 17, 2011, 08:25:40 PM
 #428


and btw, the current shares are displayed wrong, I think they are over 1 million shares till now, but there are only 438000 displayed.


The shares and scoring system are currently correct, and working fine. Those API and stats in the top bar are driven via static files. Perhaps a cron task has failed to update them, I will look into it.

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July 17, 2011, 09:32:48 PM
 #429


and btw, the current shares are displayed wrong, I think they are over 1 million shares till now, but there are only 438000 displayed.


The shares and scoring system are currently correct, and working fine. Those API and stats in the top bar are driven via static files. Perhaps a cron task has failed to update them, I will look into it.

Ok, the stats should be catching back up now. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Mine @ http://pool.bitp.it - No fees, virtually 0 stales, what's not to love!
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July 17, 2011, 10:00:36 PM
 #430


Ok, the stats should be catching back up now. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Ok, the stats are taking too long to catch up on their own... I'm going to restart the stats process manually and get it caught up.

EDIT: And now we're back!

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July 17, 2011, 10:11:24 PM
 #431

i just figured out the defence against pool hopers!
once the pool shares reaches difficulty/2, then the shares are reset to zero and start over Wink
do you think it's possible?

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1bitc0inplz
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July 17, 2011, 10:15:55 PM
 #432

i just figured out the defence against pool hopers!
once the pool shares reaches difficulty/2, then the shares are reset to zero and start over Wink
do you think it's possible?

Actually, if we went with PPLNS as our payment system, it would have a similar behavior.

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July 17, 2011, 10:21:07 PM
 #433

i just figured out the defence against pool hopers!
once the pool shares reaches difficulty/2, then the shares are reset to zero and start over Wink
do you think it's possible?
That's what I called "proportional + auto-hopping" when I was evaluating different ideas. Except it's 43%, not 50% Wink

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July 17, 2011, 10:25:22 PM
 #434

actually, i meant to reset the report of "shares", not the real total pool shares Wink
that would keep the auto-hopers in the pool for ever Cheesy

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July 18, 2011, 04:48:45 AM
 #435

Great job everyone, we solved another block.

We are still working out which reward system is the most desirable for everyone, but while we are working out those details it appears that wild fluctuations in our hash rate is actually causing a detrimental effect on our members.

So, while we are sorting out the details, we are going to be temporarily removing the "shares in round" statistic from our API. I apologize for the inconvenience, but it appears that it's come to this.

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July 18, 2011, 06:27:43 AM
 #436

We are still working out which reward system is the most desirable for everyone, but while we are working out those details it appears that wild fluctuations in our hash rate is actually causing a detrimental effect on our members.

So, while we are sorting out the details, we are going to be temporarily removing the "shares in round" statistic from our API. I apologize for the inconvenience, but it appears that it's come to this.

I went to another pool because of the pool hooping problem here.

I dont see how removing the "share in round" solves anything. As long as they know when a new block was solved they can jump in at the beggining. Or what am I missing?

EDIT: There you go: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26866.msg374692#msg374692

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edit 2 Fools! They take away total shares, but they do not take away time since start of round and average hashrate! BWA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAA!
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July 18, 2011, 06:32:02 AM
 #437

yes, but their algorithm needs the pool's shares in order to calculate the right time to get out of the pool.
if the total shares are 'zero' , then the algorithm "thinks" that it is the always the beginning of the round!
at least that is how i understand the auto-hoping fanctionality

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July 18, 2011, 06:35:00 AM
 #438

yes, but their algorithm needs the pool's shares in order to calculate the right time to get out of the pool.
if the total shares are 'zero' , then the algorithm "thinks" that it is the always the beginning of the round!
at least that is how i understand the auto-hoping fanctionality

But with the speed and the start time they can get a good enough stimate. What they really need is the start round time. If they dont know when the round started they can not pool hoop. If they know, they can stimated and even if they cant get an stimate getting early and leaving at some random point is still profitable. The point of pool hooping is to get in at the beggining of the round of each pool to get a bigger change of getting shares of the short rounds and avoid the shares of the long rounds.
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July 18, 2011, 06:35:24 AM
 #439


I went to another pool because of the pool hooping problem here.

I dont see how removing the "share in round" solves anything. As long as they know when a new block was solved they can jump in at the beggining. Or what am I missing?

We agree, it's not a solution. It's a band-aid. However, we don't want to rush into a new reward system that might be just as poor of a choice a Proportional is. So, in order to buy us a little time, we've disabled part of the stats.

What this does for us is create a situation where the hoppers can never be certain when to leave the pool. If they stay too long they will "lose money".

We're not out to try and screw them or anyone over, so my hope is that they will just view this as a less than desirable trait and remove our pool from the rotation. We'll be switching to a non-hopping friendly method soon enough, so it's probably not worth their effort at this point.

On the topic of reward systems; We've analyzed SMPPS and have some concerns about it. We fear that it might be subject to types of exploits far worse than Proportional, so therefore we are holding off on making a final judgment until we can fully analyze the situation.

However, two options we've not really discussed (in this thread anyways) are PPLNS and Scoring. Thoughts anyone?

Mine @ http://pool.bitp.it - No fees, virtually 0 stales, what's not to love!
Chat with us @ #bitp.it on irc.freenode.net
Learn more about our pool @ http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12181.0
1bitc0inplz
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July 18, 2011, 06:36:59 AM
 #440


EDIT: There you go: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=26866.msg374692#msg374692

Quote
edit 2 Fools! They take away total shares, but they do not take away time since start of round and average hashrate! BWA-HA-HA-HA-HAAAAA!

Easy enough to fix  Wink

Mine @ http://pool.bitp.it - No fees, virtually 0 stales, what's not to love!
Chat with us @ #bitp.it on irc.freenode.net
Learn more about our pool @ http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12181.0
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