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Author Topic: America's new debt ceiling - $19,600,000,000,000  (Read 16074 times)
americanpegasus
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October 24, 2015, 10:27:17 AM
 #21

I think it also bears remembering just unbelievably massive a trillion dollars actually is. 
 
First of all, a billion dollars is massive.  It's ridiculous.  If you had a billion dollars you could live lavishly every day of your life, for the rest of your life, with no compromises in luxury at all (private jets, the finest dinners, the nicest cars, vacations, etc). 
 
With a trillion dollars, you would have to spend about 50 to 80 million dollars a day to have any chance to spend it all in the course of a human lifetime. 
 
Can you imagine the good you could do, not only for yourself but also for others, with just a lump sum of 50 million?  Now imagine being told you need to spend that much a day, every day, for the rest of your life. 
 
That's a trillion dollars.

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October 24, 2015, 10:45:51 AM
 #22

If shit hits the fan, I don't know what the US would do. If China ask US to pay, I can only think of one thing: war. That's a pretty big sum. I wonder how the US kept its power with such huge debt.

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October 24, 2015, 10:49:45 AM
 #23

Same procedure as every two years  Cool I am wondering why the congress does not set the debt ceiling at $50 billion instead of increasing the limit every two years.

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October 24, 2015, 10:54:24 AM
 #24

China will most likely ask for this debt in some future. World may look for new war.
Seems scary but I don't trust USA to win this time. Even Euro may not care for USA this time.
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October 24, 2015, 10:55:23 AM
 #25

I think it also bears remembering just unbelievably massive a trillion dollars actually is. 
 
First of all, a billion dollars is massive.  It's ridiculous.  If you had a billion dollars you could live lavishly every day of your life, for the rest of your life, with no compromises in luxury at all (private jets, the finest dinners, the nicest cars, vacations, etc). 
 
With a trillion dollars, you would have to spend about 50 to 80 million dollars a day to have any chance to spend it all in the course of a human lifetime. 
 
Can you imagine the good you could do, not only for yourself but also for others, with just a lump sum of 50 million?  Now imagine being told you need to spend that much a day, every day, for the rest of your life. 
 
That's a trillion dollars.

What kind of logic is that? The US has over 300 million people in it, there's a point where anarcho-capitalism becomes ridiculous. And then you have expenses like the army and other things. You're comparing the effect of 1 billion dollars on a single person to the US with over 300 million people and trying to use it to justify how big a trillion dollars is.

Jesus dude.

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October 24, 2015, 11:01:03 AM
 #26

If shit hits the fan, I don't know what the US would do. If China ask US to pay, I can only think of one thing: war. That's a pretty big sum. I wonder how the US kept its power with such huge debt.

I doubt China is going to ask the US to repay. They are paying the interest payments, so that's generally good enough - interest payments are a veeeeery large expense of national governments.

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October 24, 2015, 11:23:03 AM
 #27

If shit hits the fan, I don't know what the US would do. If China ask US to pay, I can only think of one thing: war. That's a pretty big sum. I wonder how the US kept its power with such huge debt.

I doubt China is going to ask the US to repay. They are paying the interest payments, so that's generally good enough - interest payments are a veeeeery large expense of national governments.


First of all, it's an illustration as to how big that amount is.  I didn't say it was a practical method of government.  It also shows just how rich an individual would have to be, to be the worlds first trillionaire. 
 
Second, there will come a point where those interest payments are unsusbstainable and we are forced to create massive amounts of new debt to repay interest on old debt (already happening to some degree).

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October 24, 2015, 12:07:41 PM
 #28

Second, there will come a point where those interest payments are unsusbstainable and we are forced to create massive amounts of new debt to repay interest on old debt (already happening to some degree).

That depends if the rate of growth proceeds at the rate it does, and also depends on the rate of economic growth in the US and worldwide, as well as the rate of inflation. There are lots of variables here and it is unwise to just label it as unsustainable. If it continued exponentially growing, yes, but that's not necessarily going to happen. I mean, there was a worldwide recession.

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October 24, 2015, 12:18:40 PM
 #29

America's new debt ceiling - $19,600,000,000,000 (thats in the trillions if you were not sure)

Thats $60,000 debt for every man, woman and child in the country.

Ticking timebomb waiting to blow, keeping the gold nicely polished waiting for the day Smiley
 
  
Can anyone extend this graph out?  At this insane exponential (possibly exponential2) growth, when will we hit a debt ceiling of 1 quadrillion?  I think it will happen much sooner than we expect, possibly as soon as 2030 at the current rate of growth.

Doubt it will go that high, its already way past the unsustainable point as is. Also seriously doubt whether most of that debt will ever be paid back. The central banks bargain on the economy growing itself out of the debt but cannot see that happening. Not sure how they are going to get it sorted out, all I know is that something big is on its way and it ain't going to be a picnic.

Also, don't forget about Europe, Draghi is trying his level best to catch up on his own chart, don't like being left behind.
 

Yes dont forget about Europe,Draghi wants to increase EU QE above 60bln Euro  per month.And tink about all that derivatives market.And they are talking about China crash

Thanks for sharing that graphic,people need to be aware of it


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neurotypical
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October 24, 2015, 02:02:10 PM
 #30

The debt of United States its a bit ugly, its impossible to return it. And I suppose that isn't the only country that will have problems to pay its debt. Yes they can impress more money to pay, but with this movement they create new debt. One of the big things of bitcoins its that there is a limit of bitcoins, you can't "print" more bitcoins.

No country can pay his own debt, thats the thing. All fiats are all prone to collapse, it's like an ever ending vicious circle. The inflation will never stop because growth is only possible with more inflation.. until you get into a comma.
OP I suggest that you start polishing your Bitcoins too. When people start leaving their own homelands to other countries they will carry Bitcoin way easier than Gold.
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October 24, 2015, 02:18:12 PM
 #31

If you think about where a large portion of debt comes from and who will have to pay the bill in the end, it is actually not insane for the US to take on more and more debt and be engaged in wars around the globe they see as a necessary evil. For a paranoid people like Americans physical security is way more important than financial security. They believe they are protecting their country anywhere in the world, increasing their national debt to unthinkable levels, knowing that it's so large the world as a whole will have to pay for it. Rome- I'm sorry- the US is defended in Afghanistan and Syria right now and everyone on the planet will get the bill. If you try to stop them you know you will be asked to pay for everything that was ever lent. China alone will lose any credits it has ever given to the US. As they don't want their economy to suffer they are forced to play along. Everyone else in the world will have to play along accordingly, as a worldwide mega-crash will make everyone suffer just the same. Large negative numbers don't hurt your way of life, so keep the party going.

So, yes - we will still be here in ten years discussing over a quadrillion debt ceiling, if we are lucky.
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October 24, 2015, 05:01:10 PM
 #32

The chart is not good, use logarithmic chart will be more practical. And so will bitcoin's price rise at the same pace due to exponentially rising fiat money supply to support that debt

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October 24, 2015, 05:21:38 PM
 #33

Had they refrained from invading third world nations, to put their idea of "forced regime change" in to place, the debt would have been much lower. The Iraq invasion alone cost the Americans some $3 trillion. Add in the invasions of Libya, Serbia, Afghanistan.etc and you will find that more than 50% of the debt was created as a result of warfare.
But they earn money on war! It is not like they waste that money and earn nothing in exchange. They robbed all gold from Saddam's palace, they received huge construction contracts to rebuild Iraq after war etc.
I am not sure if they earned more on this war, probably not, but this operations are certainly no charity.
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October 24, 2015, 05:39:43 PM
 #34

It's funny how it only takes a minuscule % of all that fiat debt money to flow int othe bItcoin ecosystem to push the price of 1 Bitcoin to $100,000. It will eventually happen, all that wasted wealth will find it's way out into more legit places to reside such as Bitcoin. There are more chances of 1 Bitcoin going to 1 million dollars than the debt ever getting paid back.
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October 24, 2015, 05:42:32 PM
 #35

I dont understand why all countries with exceptions of those that are way over debted, keep increasing their debt. It just goes up up and up.
I do understand when there was financial crisis and recession after it, that country debts increase, since countries had to spend lots money to boost economy. But right now all countries are long time out of recession and debts just increase and increase and increase.  
Like this when next recession hits, debts will be x10 as now.

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October 24, 2015, 05:44:21 PM
 #36

Had they refrained from invading third world nations, to put their idea of "forced regime change" in to place, the debt would have been much lower. The Iraq invasion alone cost the Americans some $3 trillion. Add in the invasions of Libya, Serbia, Afghanistan.etc and you will find that more than 50% of the debt was created as a result of warfare.
But they earn money on war! It is not like they waste that money and earn nothing in exchange. They robbed all gold from Saddam's palace, they received huge construction contracts to rebuild Iraq after war etc.
I am not sure if they earned more on this war, probably not, but this operations are certainly no charity.

Nah, to be able to invade those countries, US needs to spend a big money--from debt or not--just to make sure that everything will go according to plan. Sure they gained control over those territories, but I'm pretty sure that it have returned the money they had spent on wars.

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October 24, 2015, 06:05:07 PM
 #37

I dont understand why all countries with exceptions of those that are way over debted, keep increasing their debt. It just goes up up and up.
I do understand when there was financial crisis and recession after it, that country debts increase, since countries had to spend lots money to boost economy. But right now all countries are long time out of recession and debts just increase and increase and increase.  
Like this when next recession hits, debts will be x10 as now.

It all depends at whose figures you are looking and or to whom you are listening too. Some countries have never really left the recession and others are already well on their way back into recession. Most figures are so manipulated or rather, the markets are so manipulated thats it hard to know on which figures you can rely. A fact one cannot overlook is that most of the underlying fundamentals already point to many countries being well back into recession mode even though their overlying figures state otherwise.

Europe just announced the increase of their QE program so even more debt will be made trying to stimulate economic growth and the US is not very far from going all in with QE4, negative rates etc.... Japan has also indicated that it will be expanding its own program, which by the way have resulted in little or no change over the past decade even though it has cost them trillions, so you can also expect Japan's debt to increase sharply over the next year and they are already one of the world leader when it comes to debt as a percentage of their GDP.

It's like every central bank is hell bent on beating the markets and we all know how that's going to end. You can fight the markets only for so long before it bites you in the behind. Markets will always return to a point of equilibrium i.e. to a point of balance. You can push it one way or the other but it will eventually return to that point and more often than not that 'return' results in a 'slaughter'.

If you think 2008 was bad then hold on, we are in for the mother of all resets to come. Not now, maybe not even next year. As said, the central banks will go all in so expect more market stimulus and expect markets to make new highs, just do not buy into all the hype. The house of cards will grow taller and taller until....


tommorisonwebdesign
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October 24, 2015, 07:54:28 PM
 #38

The debt of the United States is a direct result of that of the US federal reserve. The fed prints every new dollar and loans it to the US Treasury at interest. With that system in place, it is impossible for the US to pay off their debt, unless they abolish the fed.

Signatures? How about learning a skill... I don't care either way. Everybody has to make a living somehow.
RustyNomad
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October 24, 2015, 07:58:49 PM
 #39

I know most might have seen this following site but for those that have not go have a look at how much a trillion really is.

With the world in the state it is now the words billion and trillion is thrown around as if it's something you can just stuff in a backpack and walk off with it. Well you are going to need far more than a backpack for a trillion.

http://www.pagetutor.com/trillion/index.html
Denker
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October 24, 2015, 08:46:10 PM
 #40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

"The Biggest Scam In The History Of Mankind (Documentary) - Hidden Secrets of Money"

I guess many of you will know this video. I think it fits perfect in this thread as it shows how ridicolous this debt system is.
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