America's new debt ceiling - $19,600,000,000,000

[Febo]

I dont understand why all countries with exceptions of those that are way over debted, keep increasing their debt. It just goes up up and up.
I do understand when there was financial crisis and recession after it, that country debts increase, since countries had to spend lots money to boost economy. But right now all countries are long time out of recession and debts just increase and increase and increase.  
Like this when next recession hits, debts will be x10 as now.

It all depends at whose figures you are looking and or to whom you are listening too. Some countries have never really left the recession and others are already well on their way back into recession. Most figures are so manipulated or rather, the markets are so manipulated thats it hard to know on which figures you can rely. A fact one cannot overlook is that most of the underlying fundamentals already point to many countries being well back into recession mode even though their overlying figures state otherwise.


If you think 2008 was bad then hold on, we are in for the mother of all resets to come. Not now, maybe not even next year. As said, the central banks will go all in so expect more market stimulus and expect markets to make new highs, just do not buy into all the hype. The house of cards will grow taller and taller until....

Recession is when country GDP decrease for 6 months in a roll. Most if not all countries are out. But quite some if not most countries had not come to level of GDP as it was in 2008. Term that is used in those countries is "Lost decade".

I agree with you that next crisis will be much harder as it was the one in 2008. Simply because, China and India made 2008 crysis so mild since they run world economy forward. Next crisis will include India and China and .....

Well, most of us will live and see it.

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[Ibian]

Recession is when country GDP decrease for 6 months in a roll.

So it can go down for 5 months, then go up a smaller amount for one month and then down for another 5 and on and on and it will not be called a recession even though the economy is tanking. If that's really how "experts" use it then it is a bullshit metric.

[teukon]

Recession is when country GDP decrease for 6 months in a roll. Most if not all countries are out.

Roughly yes.  Back-to-back quarters of negative GDP growth define an official "recession".  However, note that in these cases, the recession is deemed to have begun with the first negative quarter.  It's perfectly possible that the US, for example, is already in a recession (we don't yet know Q3 GDP let alone Q4 and Q1) and it will be many months before this uncertainty is resolved.

[RealBitcoin]

ehhh.... the ponzi scheme is going insane...

Say goodbye to your savings account and pensions, it will be absorbed by the debt black hole.

Same shit happening in EU, they are preparing for QE2:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2015/sep/03/european-central-bank-gloom-suggests-qe2-horizon

[Amph]

ehhh.... the ponzi scheme is going insane...

Say goodbye to your savings account and pensions, it will be absorbed by the debt black hole.

Same shit happening in EU, they are preparing for QE2:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2015/sep/03/european-central-bank-gloom-suggests-qe2-horizon

yeah, what i find funny, are those random man on youtube that bash bitcoin, by calling it a ponzi scheme

when they are clearly supporting the biggest ponzi in history which is the whole fiat syetm, really ridiculous

[OROBTC]

...

We have already passed the Event Horizon re being able to pay off our national debt.  It CANNOT be done.  It certainly will not be done as our politicians have no desire to (nor stomach for) reduce our debt.  This will likely end badly: hyperinflation, government default (one way or another), savage taxation...

There are many analysts who can explain this in better detail than I can. 


But, the important issue here, IMO, is how each of us protect ourselves and our families from a likely disaster.

[bryant.coleman]

Had they refrained from invading third world nations, to put their idea of "forced regime change" in to place, the debt would have been much lower. The Iraq invasion alone cost the Americans some $3 trillion. Add in the invasions of Libya, Serbia, Afghanistan.etc and you will find that more than 50% of the debt was created as a result of warfare.

But they earn money on war! It is not like they waste that money and earn nothing in exchange. They robbed all gold from Saddam's palace, they received huge construction contracts to rebuild Iraq after war etc.
I am not sure if they earned more on this war, probably not, but this operations are certainly no charity.

The Americans have spent some $3 trillion so far in Iraq. And the returns have been nothing when compared to the initial expenses. Even now, they are spending tens of billions of USD there in training the Iraqi troops and providing the security, without much improvement. And with the oil and natural gas prices collapsing, it seems to me that the Americans will never be able to recover their investment.

[RealBitcoin]

ehhh.... the ponzi scheme is going insane...

Say goodbye to your savings account and pensions, it will be absorbed by the debt black hole.

Same shit happening in EU, they are preparing for QE2:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2015/sep/03/european-central-bank-gloom-suggests-qe2-horizon

yeah, what i find funny, are those random man on youtube that bash bitcoin, by calling it a ponzi schemer

when they are clearly supporting the biggest ponzi in history which is the whole fiat syetm, really ridiculous

Ah the sheeple. I cannot care less about them, when the wolfs are unleashed, they will all end up bacon.

It's not just the fiat system, but the whole Keynesian ponzi economics theory, that I debunked in my thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1147264.0

[Febo]

Recession is when country GDP decrease for 6 months in a roll.

So it can go down for 5 months, then go up a smaller amount for one month and then down for another 5 and on and on and it will not be called a recession even though the economy is tanking. If that's really how "experts" use it then it is a bullshit metric.

Is year quarters, i used wrong words.  if Q2 and Q3 country GDP decrease, country is officially in recession.   Thing is that dont tell all of country economic health.

Recession is when country GDP decrease for 6 months in a roll. Most if not all countries are out.

Roughly yes.  Back-to-back quarters of negative GDP growth define an official "recession".  However, note that in these cases, the recession is deemed to have begun with the first negative quarter.  It's perfectly possible that the US, for example, is already in a recession (we don't yet know Q3 GDP let alone Q4 and Q1) and it will be many months before this uncertainty is resolved.

Q4 barely started. When results of Q3 will be known you can say for sure. But word now you are in recession or not, should not change much. It is just a term that is used. And usually abused by politicians to cut social rights. Every government should act wisely if they will go to recession when GDP in Q3 will be calculated or not.

[anthonycamp]

ressession ressession a country like mine dependand of all portugal will feel its bigger part yes its true its comming down a bit... let us hang to our belts

[zodiac3011]

I usually don't really care about the damn debt though it can affect millions of people. I have to say the number has a lot lot lot of zeros in it. So how do they gonna solve this problem?

[Denker]

I usually don't really care about the damn debt though it can affect millions of people. I have to say the number has a lot lot lot of zeros in it. So how do they gonna solve this problem?

You can not solve this.Sooner or later this system will collapse. And then they will try the same again.

[zodiac3011]

I usually don't really care about the damn debt though it can affect millions of people. I have to say the number has a lot lot lot of zeros in it. So how do they gonna solve this problem?

You can not solve this.Sooner or later this system will collapse. And then they will try the same again.

Yeah. That's why I don't really care about the damn debt. just asking myself how in my daydream 

[Lover of Coin]

The chart is not good, use logarithmic chart will be more practical. And so will bitcoin's price rise at the same pace due to exponentially rising fiat money supply to support that debt

I believe bitcoin price will rise faster than the rate of US debt level. Maybe 3-10 times. If 0.1% of US debt purchaser buy bitcoin, the bitcoin price will be very high.

[Wexlike]

Can anyone extend this graph out?  At this insane exponential (possibly exponential²) growth

I doubt it'll continue like that, most world governments are making moves to reduce the budget deficit as it is (the UK is supposed to have a balanced budget by 2020) and countries like China & Germany still have vast amounts of money they can lend out. And either way, even if a country goes bankrupt, I doubt it'll cause "global collapse" like most people think.

Luckily they can just rise their debt level every single time. The beauty of modern states..

[Betwrong]

I usually don't really care about the damn debt though it can affect millions of people. I have to say the number has a lot lot lot of zeros in it. So how do they gonna solve this problem?

You can not solve this.Sooner or later this system will collapse. And then they will try the same again.

Yep.  It might take 2 or 3 years to recover from the collapse but then all will be okay again. 

Something like the collapse happened several times already in the past. The life goes on nevertheless.

[DiamondCardz]

If you guys are referring to the market correction as the possible start of a recession, then you probably have another thing coming for you. A market correction was long overdue, guys, it's not going to cause a new recession this early.

[teukon]

Back-to-back quarters of negative GDP growth define an official "recession".  However, note that in these cases, the recession is deemed to have begun with the first negative quarter.  It's perfectly possible that the US, for example, is already in a recession (we don't yet know Q3 GDP let alone Q4 and Q1) and it will be many months before this uncertainty is resolved.

Q4 barely started. When results of Q3 will be known you can say for sure. But word now you are in recession or not, should not change much. It is just a term that is used.

Regardless of whether Q3 is positive or negative, we will not know whether or not the economy was in recession at the time of these posts.  We will certainly need to know Q4 and may also need to know Q1 before we can be sure.

You are right to notice that "recession" here is simply a function of GDP.  An economy in recession is not necessarily shrinking and an economy which is shrinking is not necessarily in recession.

Indeed, GDP is roughly a measure of current consumable output and not one of overall economic size, health, or strength.  When long-term investments are neglected in favour of immediate luxuries, GDP will increase.  When resources are diverted towards long-term capital investments and away from short-term gratification, GDP will decrease.  Independently of GDP, economic health necessitates that investment and consumption are balanced in accordance with the preferences of the people.

[gentlemand]

That's only 19 of these



Plus a fleet of trucks to carry the other 600,000,000,000

[quantumgravity]

America's new debt ceiling - $19,600,000,000,000 (thats in the trillions if you were not sure)

Thats $60,000 debt for every man, woman and child in the country.

Ticking timebomb waiting to blow, keeping the gold nicely polished waiting for the day

The debt ceiling matters little. This figure is constantly used as a tool to mislead others. Considering that the vast majority of this debt is owned by Americans themselves it makes little difference.