Why Dash is not a scam, but a scheme

[smoothie]

...
How many people claimed this that you can quote?

100? 200? 300?

Please enlighten us all on how many you have actually heard from claiming this.

Again, read through the start of the thread instead of taking the word of random fudders as gospel, there's about a dozen posts from established miners offering 10k and 20k batches for sale. Do your own research ffs.

No.

You made the claim, now back it up.

You pointed to the IP list claiming that many miners were there at the start, that claim gets refuted by ip address association. Now you responded making claims contrary to what some of us see.

No, you made all kinds of false claims and I'm refuting them. Here's someone who was there:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12691335#msg12691335

EDIT: Quoting in case clicking a link's too much trouble for you:

clearly a mistake...

With all the damning evidence released clearly showing the instamine was obviously intentional........

"evidence"?  I'll try to reply to a troll

I was there during the "instamine", go check the first pages of this thread and you will see me complaining and discussing.

Evan updated the code many times during the first hours/days because various mistakes. I had some talks in IRC with him during the first days/weeks, and my conclusion was that the instamine happened because he just wasn't very familiarized with Bitcoin codebase and he didn't test his coin properly before launch, plus, at that time most coins were launched without a proper difficulty adjustment algorithm (Kimoto's Gravity Well was fresh new at that time and most coins didn't include it at launch).

I also saw his nickname mining in pools, he didn't even ranking top 10 of the miners (and pools had most of network's hashrate), at that time people didn't hide their nicknames in pools and you were used to see always the same names.

Moreover, if you spend some minutes analyzing the blockchain and you follow the first 1-10 mined blocks (those that are clearly mined by the dev) you will see that eventually they all go to the same addresses, with many other blocks and coins coming from pool-mining, and finally these after weeks don't account for more than 80k XCoins (about 2BTC at the time). I guess that's why he tried to buy some more, and he made it publicly (of course people like you would had thought he was hyping it to then dump his coins at higher price). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4961359#msg4961359

But the most important, the instamine didn't matter, if anything, it helped with the distribution, and the reason is because during the first weeks of life of XCoin you could buy 100k XCoin for just 2.5BTC - 5BTC, so everyone had his chance for weeks to decide to risk and buy or just sell (I myself sold more than 50k XCoin for less than 2BTC, and decided to buy some back later more expensive):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4889177#msg4889177
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4872871#msg4872871
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4867363#msg4867363

Next time you talk about the instamine, understand that those of us who don't care about it is because we understand what happened (can't say the same about you or others just repeating the same over and over without proper knowledge or analysis). We judge XCoin-Darkcoin-DASH (and Evan) for 20 months of upgrades, delivering promises and innovation, and we invest in it because we know it will continue delivering.

Is that it?

Oh and by the way it wasn't me who made the claim that "there was hundreds of miners"....it was your fearful leader Evan.

So who needs to provide proof? I think Evan does, not me.

[smooth]

Then I think we are on agreement maybe "Invention" is not the best word, but it does say of X11 the particular brand or version of multi-hash algorithm Evan introduced, so that is true.  Maybe a little context is needed, for whatever reason X11 became popular and after a while there were many coins using it and a lot of new users did not know it came from Dash, so at the time that was put there to make that distinction.

That is fair. I wasn't aware of the context of many other coins using it without giving credit. Thanks for the background.

[illodin]

Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.

"Investigation" lol. How can you possibly say that 124 IP list is a comprehensive list of all nodes or miners online at that time? If anything it looks like it's a snapshot of nodes one peer was seeing at one point in time. What a coincidence there are 124 peers in that list you base your "investigation" on when considering the default value for -maxconnections is 125. My miner's IP isn't on that list and I had been mining a good while when that list was posted. And what is a "private user" vs cloud miner? It was very common at that time to mine cpu mineable coins using cloud instances, are you claiming all those Amazon and Azure nodes were Evan's?

*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start.

Yes he and InternetApe was a team. The most likely distribution between them was 50-50. InternetApe dumped what he had left and took off a year ago or so.

It wasn't a hobby.

If he was at work at the same time, wasn't it a hobby? Perhaps he can provide a proof he was still working for another employer while launching it.

he had a plan to make a profit.

Would it have made you satisfied if his plan was to lose money?

=> DASH is clearly the reason Monero isn't going anywhere.

Disagree.

[smoothie]

=> DASH is clearly the reason Monero isn't going anywhere.

Disagree.

Yeah but that (in bold) is not what dnaleor said.  

Please stay on topic as this thread is not about Monero, but DASH. 

[illodin]

=> DASH is clearly the reason Monero isn't going anywhere.

Disagree.

Yeah but that (in bold) is not what dnaleor said.  

Yeah but that is what he believes.

Please stay on topic as this thread is not about Monero, but DASH.  

It is very much about Monero for him, you, and the poster below yours.

[smoothie]

=> DASH is clearly the reason Monero isn't going anywhere.

Disagree.

Yeah but that (in bold) is not what dnaleor said.  

Yeah but that is what he believes.

Please stay on topic as this thread is not about Monero, but DASH.  

It is very much about Monero for him, you, and the poster below yours.

No. Please don't speak for me.

My calling out dash as a scam coin is about simply that...calling out a scam. It has nothing to do with Monero.

You can create theories all you want but it doesn't prove anything other than making you look silly/childish.

[illodin]

You can create theories all you want but it doesn't prove anything other than making you look silly/childish.

You could say that again.

[smoothie]

You can create theories all you want but it doesn't prove anything other than making you look silly/childish.

You could say that again.

So you take a cheap shot then point the finger?

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

lol

[illodin]

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

Could be a coincidence of course.

Still waiting for your take on

• Axiom
• SmartPoker
• BobSurplus

I have a few more after you're done.

[smoothie]

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

Could be a coincidence of course.

Still waiting for your take on

• Axiom
• SmartPoker
• BobSurplus

I have a few more after you're done.

You do realize I don't work for you.

I work on my own will. Dash appears to be a much bigger operation than all of those combined.

I've done my fair share of scam busting on this forum: MTGOX, BFL, PIRATEAT40 etc

Diverting attention elsewhere doesn't remove the issues with DASH.

[illodin]

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

Could be a coincidence of course.

Still waiting for your take on

• Axiom
• SmartPoker
• BobSurplus

I have a few more after you're done.

You do realize I don't work for you.

I work on my own will. Dash appears to be a much bigger operation than all of those combined.

I've done my fair share of scam busting on this forum: MTGOX, BFL, PIRATEAT40 etc

Diverting attention elsewhere doesn't remove the issues with DASH.

Ok I believe you it is just a coincidence that the only people spending most of their energy on DASH "issues" are heavily involved with Monero.

[generalizethis]

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

Could be a coincidence of course.

Still waiting for your take on

• Axiom
• SmartPoker
• BobSurplus

I have a few more after you're done.

You do realize I don't work for you.

I work on my own will. Dash appears to be a much bigger operation than all of those combined.

I've done my fair share of scam busting on this forum: MTGOX, BFL, PIRATEAT40 etc

Diverting attention elsewhere doesn't remove the issues with DASH.

Ok I believe you it is just a coincidence that the only people spending most of their energy on DASH "issues" are heavily involved with Monero.

What you fail to acknowledge is that Monero supporters get along great with other fairly launched coins that do privacy correctly (AEON, BBR, the real Dash coin) so it's not a competition thing, it's a "your coin sucks at privacy and had a shitty launch" thing. Though I think the fact that many still believe dash is a good privacy coin, rubs those who know better the wrong way.

Every claim puts a target on your back and the bigger the market cap the bigger the spotlight. So get out of the spotlight, stop making faulty claims, or stop bitching about it. My guess is that better research and gravity will take care of the first two for you, so you can stand there blindfolded and with your hands over your ears, yelling, "Everyone is just jelly!" while your hype machine enjoys its catastrophic reentry.

[illodin]

What you fail to acknowledge is that Monero supporters get along great with other fairly launched coins that do privacy correctly (AEON, BBR, the real Dash coin) so it's not a competition thing, it's a "your coin sucks at privacy and had a shitty launch" thing. Though I think the fact that many still believe dash is a good privacy coin, rubs those who know better the wrong way.

You're picking coins two orders of magnitude smaller to prove you're getting along great with "competing" projects. 

You could say DASH community would get along with Monero just fine (i.e. ignore it) if Monero didn't constantly try to brew up drama and FUD. It makes Monerons look like coattail riders with little brother syndrome, tell me it ain't so?

stop making faulty claims

What faulty claims have I made?

[generalizethis]

What you fail to acknowledge is that Monero supporters get along great with other fairly launched coins that do privacy correctly (AEON, BBR, the real Dash coin) so it's not a competition thing, it's a "your coin sucks at privacy and had a shitty launch" thing. Though I think the fact that many still believe dash is a good privacy coin, rubs those who know better the wrong way.

You're picking coins two orders of magnitude smaller to prove you're getting along great with "competing" projects.  

You could say DASH community would get along with Monero just fine (i.e. ignore it) if Monero didn't constantly try to brew up drama and FUD. It makes Monerons look like coattail riders with little brother syndrome, tell me it ain't so?

stop making faulty claims

What faulty claims have I made?

It ain't so. I told you my belief. You'll have to get the others to tell you theirs.

So you believe dash is a good privacy coin? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

[illodin]

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

There you go again with your fair launch delusions when 99.9999% of the population isn't even aware coins are being launched every day.

It's not the dev's fault some people want to pay something for the coins thus giving them value. You don't have to buy or mine coins, no one is forcing you, it is not necessary for you to do so. If someone else does though, it's not unfair to you the slightest. If I create a program that generates a million tokens out of thin air and I keep them all to myself, and you for some reason want to buy one of them for $1, all of a sudden I hold $1MM worth of computer data. Was this unfair to someone? Who was scammed? When Gates and Allen founded Microsoft and got most of the shares, was that a fair launch?

I think it's interesting though that even small time miners managed to hit some blocks and buy some coins cheap by being lucky of being there early instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms and whales. The launch was different than Monero's, it's a good thing there is plenty of choice available for everyone to choose what they like.

[generalizethis]

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

There you go again with your fair launch delusions when 99.9999% of the population isn't even aware coins are being launched every day.

It's not the dev's fault some people want to pay something for the coins thus giving them value. You don't have to buy or mine coins, no one is forcing you, it is not necessary for you to do so. If someone else does though, it's not unfair to you the slightest. If I create a program that generates a million tokens out of thin air and I keep them all to myself, and you for some reason want to buy one of them for $1, all of a sudden I hold $1MM worth of computer data. Was this unfair to someone? Who was scammed? When Gates and Allen founded Microsoft and got most of the shares, was that a fair launch?

I think it's interesting though that even small time miners managed to hit some blocks and buy some coins cheap by being lucky of being there early instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms and whales. The launch was different than Monero's, it's a good thing there is plenty of choice available for everyone to choose what they like.

My point was that if you claimed that dash was launched fairly and the privacy is good, then comparing it to Monero, BBR, the real Dash, and AEON is fair--but if you don't, then your claim that Monero and Dash are competing projects and that it is the source of the criticisms is faulty. My assertion is that it is the false comparison built on Evan's claims that has led to much of the animosity, and if dash was honest with what it is (another shit coin with a terrible launch with faux technological advantages), then no one would bother to criticize it for making faulty claims.

To put it more simply, you would need a fair launch and equal privacy to be in competition with Monero. I don't see it, but you are more than encouraged to make that claim so i or someone else can refute it.

[iCEBREAKER]

Dec 2013: eduffield posts on Bitcoin-Development mailing list looking to hire for his "for-profit startup"

Jan 2014: 1.5 million DASH or roughly 30% of all coins currently in circulation are instamined in 8 hours, allowing eduffield to hire eduffield as Full-time lead developer


Do you really think anyone with a brain believes this was an accident? Do you think a judge would believe it?

What kind of tax rates do you pay when you hire yourself with your own instamine?

Is there windfall, then corporate, then personal income, or what?

Maybe it's just easier to declare the obviously-for-profit startup a "nonprofit" such as the 501(c)(6) entity called THE DARKCOIN FOUNDATION, INC.

I guess then the proceeds of the instamine become "donations."

Nice work, if you can get (away with) it.

[solid12345]

Nothing in life is fair. The Dark instamine wasn't fair. It's not fair early Monero adopters got punished with runaway inflation. It's not fair 1st year Bitcoin miners were able to mine thousands of coins with crappy CPUs and cheap electricity. It's not fair Leo Dicaprio doesn't have an oscar. It's not fair I'm not rich. It's all just so unfair!

[illodin]

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

There you go again with your fair launch delusions when 99.9999% of the population isn't even aware coins are being launched every day.

It's not the dev's fault some people want to pay something for the coins thus giving them value. You don't have to buy or mine coins, no one is forcing you, it is not necessary for you to do so. If someone else does though, it's not unfair to you the slightest. If I create a program that generates a million tokens out of thin air and I keep them all to myself, and you for some reason want to buy one of them for $1, all of a sudden I hold $1MM worth of computer data. Was this unfair to someone? Who was scammed? When Gates and Allen founded Microsoft and got most of the shares, was that a fair launch?

I think it's interesting though that even small time miners managed to hit some blocks and buy some coins cheap by being lucky of being there early instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms and whales. The launch was different than Monero's, it's a good thing there is plenty of choice available for everyone to choose what they like.

My point was that if you claimed that dash was launched fairly and the privacy is good, then comparing it to Monero, BBR, the real Dash, and AEON is fair--but if you don't, then your claim that Monero and Dash are competing projects and that it is the source of the criticisms is faulty. My assertion is that it is the false comparison built on Evan's claims that has led to much of the animosity, and if dash was honest with what it is (another shit coin with a terrible launch with faux technological advantages), then no one would bother to criticize it for making faulty claims.

To put it more simply, you would need a fair launch and equal privacy to be in competition with Monero. I don't see it, but you are more than encouraged to make that claim so i or someone else can refute it.

Look, I know you can keep going 24/7 and take turns but I'll just have to stop at some point so I'll just leave these here:

• It's easy to be all good and friendly with "competition" 1% of your size
• If DASH was 1% of your size you wouldn't give a shit
• There is no fair launch, life is not fair
• It's a free world, you're not forced or required to have the same percentage of an asset as everyone else. You can go create your own digital token and assign 99% of it to yourself to balance the irritation all this unfairness has caused you.

[generalizethis]

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

There you go again with your fair launch delusions when 99.9999% of the population isn't even aware coins are being launched every day.

It's not the dev's fault some people want to pay something for the coins thus giving them value. You don't have to buy or mine coins, no one is forcing you, it is not necessary for you to do so. If someone else does though, it's not unfair to you the slightest. If I create a program that generates a million tokens out of thin air and I keep them all to myself, and you for some reason want to buy one of them for $1, all of a sudden I hold $1MM worth of computer data. Was this unfair to someone? Who was scammed? When Gates and Allen founded Microsoft and got most of the shares, was that a fair launch?

I think it's interesting though that even small time miners managed to hit some blocks and buy some coins cheap by being lucky of being there early instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms and whales. The launch was different than Monero's, it's a good thing there is plenty of choice available for everyone to choose what they like.

My point was that if you claimed that dash was launched fairly and the privacy is good, then comparing it to Monero, BBR, the real Dash, and AEON is fair--but if you don't, then your claim that Monero and Dash are competing projects and that it is the source of the criticisms is faulty. My assertion is that it is the false comparison built on Evan's claims that has led to much of the animosity, and if dash was honest with what it is (another shit coin with a terrible launch with faux technological advantages), then no one would bother to criticize it for making faulty claims.

To put it more simply, you would need a fair launch and equal privacy to be in competition with Monero. I don't see it, but you are more than encouraged to make that claim so i or someone else can refute it.

Look, I know you can keep going 24/7 and take turns but I'll just have to stop at some point so I'll just leave these here:

• It's easy to be all good and friendly with "competition" 1% of your size
• If DASH was 1% of your size you wouldn't give a shit
• There is no fair launch, life is not fair
• It's a free world, you're not forced or required to have the same percentage of an asset as everyone else. You can go create your own digital token and assign 99% of it to yourself to balance the irritation all this unfairness has caused you.

If DASH was 1% of its current size, you wouldn't give a shit either--but here we are and the spotlight is on.

It's a free world and i can keep pointing out that dash has flawed privacy. And can tell others that they shouldn't reward a few who got in early--a few who most likely manipulated events so they could gain even more advantage than the "accidental" shortcoming in the coin's code gave them already.


The market decides, but some of us want the narrative honest and open (fair) without any schemes or shortcomings going unnoticed in the shadows.