Why Dash is not a scam, but a scheme

[wopakee]

People complains about Dash, formerly Darkcoin, formerly Xcoin, being instamined and not rightfully propagated.
Well, I think there are some things that we need to reconsider before we actually come to this conclusion.

A) The history.

When Xcoin was launched, it had no other features that any other coin didn't have. It was a restart and a copy with no unique features. It was worthless, and it got distributed through an "instantaneous mining"(1.9m coins out of current 4.9m supply within 8 hours).

What these miners got is a humongous amount of Xcoin, which in itself was nothing but a copied coin. Lucky few, they probably had 100's of thousands of Xcoins, worth about 0.1btc/100,000 or something at that time.

One month later, actual progress had been made, and the coin attained a small value, the community voted to change the name to 'Darkcoin', because anonymity was the goal, and even though it wasn't fully implemented yet, people had started to believe in the development.

 
So now the coin was called Darkcoin. Progress was being made and 3 months later it was no longer the Xcoin that was once launched. Just as like a skyscraper that had started taking form, from just being an architecture with a lot of guesswork, now something actual had been created, and it was called Darkcoin. Still not fully anonymous, and lots of bugs left to be solved, but yet interesting enough to have caught a lot of attention.

Continued development brought stability to the coin, and it finally got to the point where the original goal of anonymity had been reached. But new opportunities had opened up, the masternode network turned out to bring a whole new platform to the market, so it was a given to continue expanding on it.

Yet again a community vote was made for changing the name from the somewhat obscure 'Darkcoin', to 'Dash'. Why was this appropriate? Because the development had reached far beyond Darkcoin, Darkcoin was the nymph that hatched into something much bigger and the incentives had changed.

The distribution is history, it's an integrated part of the project, and it laid the foundation for what we have now.

B) Relaunch is not an option.

Because if this were to be relaunched, it wouldn't be fair anyhow. The people with the biggest rigs and mining-farms would quickly consume the network, and the distribution would favor the few wealthy mega-miners. Most people don't even know how setup mining. People would also hoard their coins, making it impossible for others to get a piece of the cake.
It would simply and clearly be a waste of time and energy to do this, and for what purpose? We would have the same situation with the exception of that we could point to the mining history and say that it had a "fair launch"(only meaning that it was stable and predictable).

[1715192937]

1715192937

[qwizzie]

People complains about Dash, formerly Darkcoin, formerly Xcoin, being instamined and not rightfully propagated.
Well, I think there are some things that we need to reconsider before we actually come to this conclusion.

1. The history.

When Xcoin was launched, it had no other features that any other coin didn't have. It was a restart and a copy with no unique features. It was worthless, and it got distributed through an "instantaneous mining"(2.5m coins out of current 5.0m supply within 8 hours).

What these miners got is a humongous amount of Xcoin, which in itself was nothing but a copied coin. Lucky few, they probably had 100's of thousands of Xcoins, worth about 0.1btc/100,000 or something at that time.

One month later, actual progress had been made, and the coin attained a small value, the community voted to change the name to 'Darkcoin', because anonymity was the goal, and even though it wasn't fully implemented yet, people had started to believe in the development.

 
So now the coin was called Darkcoin. Progress was being made and 3 months later it was no longer the Xcoin that was once launched. Just as like a skyscraper that had started taking form, from just being an architecture with a lot of guesswork, now something actual had been created, and it was called Darkcoin. Still not fully anonymous, and lots of bugs left to be solved, but yet interesting enough to have caught a lot of attention.

Continued development brought stability to the coin, and it finally got to the point where the original goal of anonymity had been reached. But new opportunities had opened up, the masternode network turned out to bring a whole new platform to the market, so it was a given to continue expanding on it.

Yet again a community vote was made for changing the name from the somewhat obscure 'Darkcoin', to 'Dash'. Why was this appropriate? Because the development had reached far beyond Darkcoin, Darkcoin was the nymph that hatched into something much bigger and the incentives had changed.

The distribution is history, it's an integrated part of the project, and it laid the foundation for what we have now.

2. A relaunch is not an option.

Because if this were to be relaunched, it wouldn't be fair anyhow. The people with the biggest rigs and mining-farms would quickly consume the network, and the distribution would favor the few wealthy mega-miners. Most people don't even know how setup mining. People would also hoard their coins, making it impossible for others to get a piece of the cake.
It would simply and clearly be a waste of time and energy to do this, and for what purpose? We would have the same situation with the exception of that we could point to the mining history and say that it had a "fair launch"(only meaning that it was stable and predictable).

Interesting post and i agree with point 1 and 2.
I have no problems with Dash being called a scheme as the word scheme itself has several definitions...  
("scheme : a visionary project" comes to mind when i think of it)


 

[othe]

But it was all a planned for profit project which makes your argument invalid:

http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2013-December/003965.html

2013/12/29 Evan Duffield <eduffield82 at gmail.com>:
> Hello,
>
>
> We’re a startup looking for 1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is
> familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup.
>
>
> We will be able to provide more information about the project after signing
> a non-compete/non-disclosure agreement. Our coin will be one of the truly
> unique coins that are not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code. In
> short the project will be a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very
> useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem.
>
>
> If you have added any features to Bitcoin or related technologies this is a
> definite bonus. Please include information about the work you’re done in the
> space.
>
>
> We have detailed plans on how to implement it and the roles we are looking
> to fill. If interested please email eduffield82 at gmail.com with a description
> of your work experience and we’ll vett the applications and share our plans
> to see if you’re interested.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Evan & Kyle
>
> Hawk Financial Group, LLC

[dEBRUYNE]

Ahh, butthurt trolls missed the boat and want a restart Or maybe he was in at the start and sold out way too early and wants another go? There where hundreds of IPs mining as shown from the thread when folks where having trouble syncing, just like any other coin launch, miners jumping on low difficulty for fast profits but it gets brought up again and again and again by the same small group. There's a detailed analysis here if anyone really gives a shit:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12689175#msg12689175

That doesn't say a thing, for all we know it could've been one entity spinning up multiple instances on AWS and Azure. You simply can't make that argument based on IPs alone.

[qwizzie]

i'm gonna post something in here that i recentely posted in the Dashtalk forum so everyone reading this knows the difference between Instamine (also called Fastmine) and Premine :

Premine : Coins were given out before mining started. That means basically in the genesis block a certain amount of coins were distributed to accounts when the chain started.
In PoS coins, this is typically a 100% premine as all the coins are created at block 0. An popular example of this is NXT.
credits : SomethingElse

Instamine / Fastmine : is different and also has a much broader definition. That is when a cryptocurrency in its early hours / days / period due to either accidental fastmining (Dash) or intentional crippling of mining software (Monero) or 1 person / group ending up with a large number of coins (Bitcoin / Satoshi 1 million BTC) delivers a lot of coins in a select few hands.

The whole cryptocurrency scene could be seen currently as an Instamine to the outside world as only a small percentage of the human population is aware of it .. although the high Bitcoin price in 2014 and the media hype that followed after that could have changed that by now.


 

[othe]

No and the list does have an awful lot of IPs in similar ranges but a hell of a lot more are entirely random and several folks who where mining from launch have said their IPs aren't on it so its not complete.

Which ip list? Oh, and no one mined it from the start as it didn´t compile and there where no win binaries either.

[dEBRUYNE]

i'm gonna post something in here that i recentely posted in the Dashtalk forum so everyone reading this knows the difference between of Instamine (also called Fastmine) and Premine :

Premine : Coins were given out before mining started. That means basically in the genesis block a certain amount of coins were distributed to accounts when the chain started.
In PoS coins, this is typically a 100% premine as all the coins are created at block 0. An popular example of this is NXT.
credits : SomethingElse

Instamine / Fastmine : is different and also has a much broader definition. That is when a cryptocurrency in its early hours / days / period due to either accidental fastmining (Dash) or intentional crippling of mining software (Monero) or 1 person / group ending up with a large number of coins (Bitcoin / Satoshi 1 million BTC) delivers a lot of coins in a select few hands.

The whole cryptocurrency scene could be seen currently as an Instamine to the largely unaware outside world as only a small percentage of the human population is aware of it .. although the high Bitcoin price in 2014 and the media hype that followed after that could have changed that by now.


 

First of all, Monero was forked from Bytecoin. Thus, it ended up with a crippled miner due to the forking, not in any way was it intentional. Also, the mining code was fixed within the week. Furthermore, Monero didn't deviate from its original schedule. That's the biggest difference here and you fail to comprehend that.

but I suspect the group running  their coin hold 99% of it and have no good intentions towards crypto.

@stan.distortion, could you elaborate on this? I am assuming you mean bytecoin or something?

Btw, I am not saying Evan + friends were the sole miners at the start. However, you can't counter that argument based on IPs alone.

[qwizzie]

i'm gonna post something in here that i recentely posted in the Dashtalk forum so everyone reading this knows the difference between of Instamine (also called Fastmine) and Premine :

Premine : Coins were given out before mining started. That means basically in the genesis block a certain amount of coins were distributed to accounts when the chain started.
In PoS coins, this is typically a 100% premine as all the coins are created at block 0. An popular example of this is NXT.
credits : SomethingElse

Instamine / Fastmine : is different and also has a much broader definition. That is when a cryptocurrency in its early hours / days / period due to either accidental fastmining (Dash) or intentional crippling of mining software (Monero) or 1 person / group ending up with a large number of coins (Bitcoin / Satoshi 1 million BTC) delivers a lot of coins in a select few hands.

The whole cryptocurrency scene could be seen currently as an Instamine to the largely unaware outside world as only a small percentage of the human population is aware of it .. although the high Bitcoin price in 2014 and the media hype that followed after that could have changed that by now.

First of all, Monero was forked from Bytecoin. Thus, it ended up with a crippled miner due to the forking, not in any way was it intentional. Also, the mining code was fixed within the week. Furthermore, Monero didn't deviate from their original schedule. That's the biggest difference here and you fail to comprehend that.

The crippled mining software details: http://da-data.blogspot.nl/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

Fact is that Monero was instamined, period (intentional or not is actually irrelevant, it happened). It is therefore pure hypocrisy of Monero to keep throwing the instamine at Dash (which btw Dash fully acknowledge --> https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118) while Monero had a serious instamine problem through cripple mining software themself and they dont even acknowledge it.
If there is something i really loath, its hypocrisy.    

Fact is that with this broad definition of instamine a lot of cryptocurrencies fall under it, including Bitcoin, Monero and Dash.
So its really a useless and dumb argument to use against each other.

[binaryFate]

Fact is that Monero was instamined...

This is wrong, it never deviated from the planned schedule.

... period.

Nope, try again.

[smooth]

Fact is that with this broad definition of instamine a lot of cryptocurrencies fall under it, including Bitcoin, Monero and Dash.
So its really a useless and dumb argument to use against each other.

1. Monero and Bitcoin are off topic to this thread. Please try to stay on topic.

2. If the definition fits every coin (which any definition that equates to "unfair mining" certainly does) then it is a meaningless definition and should not be used. The correct definition of instamine is when a large to very large number of coins are mined at launch despite the planned and documented distribution schedule being much slower. (If planned and documented, a very fast distribution at launch is a fastmine not an instamine.) By this correct definition for example, Litecoin had a small instamine (around 1% of current coins). Bitcoin and Monero did not.

[qwizzie]

People complains about Dash, formerly Darkcoin, formerly Xcoin, being instamined and not rightfully propagated.
Well, I think there are some things that we need to reconsider before we actually come to this conclusion.

A) The history.

When Xcoin was launched, it had no other features that any other coin didn't have. It was a restart and a copy with no unique features. It was worthless, and it got distributed through an "instantaneous mining"(2.5m coins out of current 5.0m supply within 8 hours).

small correction : it was actually 1.99m not 2.5m --> https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

[othe]

No and the list does have an awful lot of IPs in similar ranges but a hell of a lot more are entirely random and several folks who where mining from launch have said their IPs aren't on it so its not complete.

Which ip list? Oh, and no one mined it from the start as it didn´t compile and there where no win binaries either.

Maybe you couldn't compile it but that doesn't mean others couldn't, did you fix it yourself or wait for a download?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573

EDIT:

...

but I suspect the group running  their coin hold 99% of it and have no good intentions towards crypto.

@stan.distortion, could you elaborate on this? I am assuming you mean bytecoin or something?
...

Add it up, you know the group I'm talking about and what have they actually done that benefits the space as a whole? Screwed around with markets? Started fights over development? Pitted alts against each other so neither advance? This lot are a cancer to crypto and it looks intentional, who has the most to gain from that?

After analysing your list, this is the result:

Code:

Cloud + dedicated servers
54.212.164.221 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.203.24.96 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.202.75.71 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.203.83.237 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.203.215.90 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.214.64.131 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.245.219.141 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.214.217.9 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.212.171.58 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.235.239.14 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.227.210.63 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.224.80.96 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.226.144.1 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.196.100.234 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.212.189.65 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.184.65.108 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.212.32.86 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.234.214.166 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.242.185.39 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.203.94.44 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
23.23.186.131 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.221.170.103 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.205.131.190 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.202.162.56 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.244.195.204 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.218.143.120 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
23.22.98.102 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
50.112.10.185 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
50.112.82.162 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.221.163.161 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.203.231.220 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.197.22.82 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.203.32.45 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.203.211.146 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
50.17.39.214 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.244.84.153 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
50.16.206.102 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.203.199.175 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.211.19.102 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.202.70.156 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.202.137.113 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.211.180.136 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
23.20.9.158 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.203.242.24 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.202.174.228 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
50.112.38.82 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
54.202.185.142 - Amazon Technologies Inc.
137.135.216.240 - Microsoft Corp
137.116.230.126 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.200.139 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.209.9 - Microsoft Corp
137.117.66.227 - Microsoft Corp
137.116.229.112 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.56.36 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.162.95 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.60.201 - Microsoft Corp
168.61.87.67 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.205.224 - Microsoft Corp
168.62.213.56 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.205.26 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.55.20 - Microsoft Corp
137.117.235.15 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.103.204 - Microsoft Corp
137.117.201.91 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.206.30 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.48.240 - Microsoft Corp
137.117.138.79 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.1.82 - Microsoft Corp
168.61.36.106 - Microsoft Corp
168.63.66.51 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.209.167 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.49.237 - Microsoft Corp
168.61.85.13 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.116.136 - Microsoft Corp
168.63.203.210 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.207.116 - Microsoft Corp
168.63.203.214 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.54.226 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.209.195 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.200.14 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.54.22 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.60.190 - Microsoft Corp
137.116.231.53 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.207.218 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.204.129 - Microsoft Corp
168.61.84.37 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.48.137 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.1.60 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.207.139 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.56.10 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.202.79 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.54.194 - Microsoft Corp
137.135.208.52 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.53.228 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.48.42 - Microsoft Corp
138.91.50.152 - Microsoft Corp
65.52.120.165 - Microsoft Corp
65.52.119.150 - Microsoft Corp
65.52.120.174 - Microsoft Corp
23.99.20.89 - Microsoft Corp
23.99.20.99 - Microsoft Corp
191.234.40.164 - Microsoft Corp
191.235.131.174 - Microsoft Corp
191.234.40.58 - Microsoft Corp
191.234.34.136 - Microsoft Corp
191.234.33.235 - Microsoft Corp
192.99.10.172 - OVH Hosting -  Inc.
199.48.164.198 - Nodes Direct
144.76.45.199 - Server Block
172.245.208.234 - VPS ACE
46.183.216.84 - Dedicated servers
212.7.200.8 - Dediserv Dedicated Servers Sp. z o.o.
162.243.33.16 - "Digital Ocean -  Inc."
5.9.146.74 - Hetzner Online AG
62.210.177.2 - IP Pool for Iliad-Entreprises Business Hosting Customers


Private:
86.4.102.125 - NTL Infrastructure - Nottingham
83.248.99.134 - Com Hem customer broadband access
183.111.10.26 - Korea Telecom
81.190.117.6 - Multimedia Polska S. A.
114.79.36.226 - PT SMART TELECOM
191.234.34.86 - Unknown
89.134.172.182 - UPC Magyarorszag Kft.
24.56.43.184 - Cox Communications
98.165.130.67 - Cox Communications

From the 124 IPs you gave me 115 where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.

106 of them alone where at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.


Edit, moved cox com to privatelist.

[smooth]

People complains about Dash, formerly Darkcoin, formerly Xcoin, being instamined and not rightfully propagated.
Well, I think there are some things that we need to reconsider before we actually come to this conclusion.

A) The history.

When Xcoin was launched, it had no other features that any other coin didn't have. It was a restart and a copy with no unique features. It was worthless, and it got distributed through an "instantaneous mining"(2.5m coins out of current 5.0m supply within 8 hours).

small correction : it was actually 1.99m not 2.5m --> https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Yes that is correct. The last block with extra coins was 4500, with 1.99m+ outstanding. If you click forward to the next block you will see it drops from 500 to 25 coins.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?4500.htm

[smoothie]

...

And that's not a complete list, doesn't getpeerinfo order by latency?

Oh so now it isn't a complete list once it is shown that many of those ips are VPS instances?

Looks like maybe 10 different people mining on that list ("dashers").

Evan said there were "hundreds" of miners.

[smoothie]

People complains about Dash, formerly Darkcoin, formerly Xcoin, being instamined and not rightfully propagated.
Well, I think there are some things that we need to reconsider before we actually come to this conclusion.

A) The history.

When Xcoin was launched, it had no other features that any other coin didn't have. It was a restart and a copy with no unique features. It was worthless, and it got distributed through an "instantaneous mining"(2.5m coins out of current 5.0m supply within 8 hours).

small correction : it was actually 1.99m not 2.5m --> https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Yes that is correct. The last block with extra coins was 4500, with 1.99m+ outstanding. If you click forward to the next block you will see it drops from 500 to 25 coins.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?4500.htm

Much of this still reminds me of how Solidcoin dev Realsolid/Coinhunter changed the emission to drop the rewards per block of solidcoin. Went from like 50 to 5 or so.

[qwizzie]

People complains about Dash, formerly Darkcoin, formerly Xcoin, being instamined and not rightfully propagated.
Well, I think there are some things that we need to reconsider before we actually come to this conclusion.

A) The history.

When Xcoin was launched, it had no other features that any other coin didn't have. It was a restart and a copy with no unique features. It was worthless, and it got distributed through an "instantaneous mining"(2.5m coins out of current 5.0m supply within 8 hours).

small correction : it was actually 1.99m not 2.5m --> https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Yes that is correct. The last block with extra coins was 4500, with 1.99m+ outstanding. If you click forward to the next block you will see it drops from 500 to 25 coins.

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/block.dws?4500.htm

Much of this still reminds me of how Solidcoin dev Realsolid/Coinhunter changed the emission to drop the rewards per block of solidcoin. Went from like 50 to 5 or so.

please stay on topic

we are discussing Dash not solidcoin

(thanks smooth  )

[wopakee]

People complains about Dash, formerly Darkcoin, formerly Xcoin, being instamined and not rightfully propagated.
Well, I think there are some things that we need to reconsider before we actually come to this conclusion.

A) The history.

When Xcoin was launched, it had no other features that any other coin didn't have. It was a restart and a copy with no unique features. It was worthless, and it got distributed through an "instantaneous mining"(2.5m coins out of current 5.0m supply within 8 hours).

small correction : it was actually 1.99m not 2.5m --> https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Corrected.

[qwizzie]

People complains about Dash, formerly Darkcoin, formerly Xcoin, being instamined and not rightfully propagated.
Well, I think there are some things that we need to reconsider before we actually come to this conclusion.

A) The history.

When Xcoin was launched, it had no other features that any other coin didn't have. It was a restart and a copy with no unique features. It was worthless, and it got distributed through an "instantaneous mining"(2.5m coins out of current 5.0m supply within 8 hours).

small correction : it was actually 1.99m not 2.5m --> https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Corrected.

thanks

[smooth]

...

And that's not a complete list, doesn't getpeerinfo order by latency?

Anyone with very high latency would have virtually no chance to have their block survive without being orphaned, given the high rate that blocks were being produced by powerful servers in extremely well connected data centers. Some probably did, but it would have to be negligible.

[americanpegasus]

Fine, Monero might be off topic, but I have to correct this one incorrect thing being said: in no way can someone reasonably say that having crippled mining software at launch was unfair (or an instamined) for Monero.  If anything, that actually made it more fair because those who got there first got fewer, not more, coins.

[othe]

Miners jump on coins at launch because of the low difficulty and those services give the best bang for your buck with CPU mining, why would Dash be any different?

Because DASH didn´t work, there was no way to "jump on it" in the beginning. period.
AWS and Azure instances are expensive, there is no way someone wastes thousands of dollars for a coin which is just a plain btc copy (initial announcement).

[smoothie]

...

And that's not a complete list, doesn't getpeerinfo order by latency?

Oh so now it isn't a complete list once it is shown that many of those ips are VPS instances?

Looks like maybe 10 different people mining on that list ("dashers").

Evan said there were "hundreds" of miners.

Fwiw, no, it lists them as they where added. As I said earlier, several folks who where mining from day 1 said their IPs aren't on it so it's not complete, unless you want to say they're sockpuppets for Evan and if so we might as well stop their 'cos that's a road to nowhere.

Miners jump on coins at launch because of the low difficulty and those services give the best bang for your buck with CPU mining, why would Dash be any different?
http://cryptomining-blog.com/tag/crypto-coin-calendar/
http://www.coindesk.com/gaw-miners-altcoin-launch-sparks-speculative-frenzy/

How many people claimed this that you can quote?

100? 200? 300?

Please enlighten us all on how many you have actually heard from claiming their ip was not listed on that list.

[smoothie]

Miners jump on coins at launch because of the low difficulty and those services give the best bang for your buck with CPU mining, why would Dash be any different?

Because DASH didn´t work, there was no way to "jump on it" in the beginning. period.
AWS and Azure instances are expensive, there is no way someone wastes thousands of dollars for a coin which is just a plain btc copy (initial announcement).

You've not answered this one yet:

...
Maybe you couldn't compile it but that doesn't mean others couldn't, did you fix it yourself or wait for a download?
...

Its fairly obvious many folks could get it to run so I've no idea why you couldn't get it to work, AES maybe?

That is a pretty big assumption that HUNDREDS of people were compiling the source at launch. Most people just download binaries and start mining.

[jwinterm]

Admiral Ackbar weighs in and contributes meaningfully to the conversation:

[smooth]

Fine, Monero might be off topic, but I have to correct this one incorrect thing being said: in no way can someone reasonably say that having crippled mining software at launch was unfair (or an instamined) for Monero.  If anything, that actually made it more fair because those who got there first got fewer, not more, coins.

If wasn't fewer, it just did not affect the amount of coins either way (other than around 100 coins which were indeed instamined if you want to call it that). If you look at the block explorer, the blocks happened very close to the specified rate (starting around block 5) with exactly the specified reward per block (starting with block 1). Two days post-launch there were around 50k coins mined (about 1/2% of the current total), which was about right.

By contrast, if you look at the block explorer for Dash you see extra coins and/or blocks occurring faster than specified, until block 4500 around 2 days after launch (total 1.99m+ coins; about 33% of the current total).

The only thing that was affected is some people were able to get a higher share of the hash rate by optimizing the miner, something that btw is still the case to this very day with Dash. The open source Dash miner uses the sph hashing library which is will known for being unoptimized and inefficient (according to othe; I have not verified myself).

[smoothie]

...
How many people claimed this that you can quote?

100? 200? 300?

Please enlighten us all on how many you have actually heard from claiming this.

Again, read through the start of the thread instead of taking the word of random fudders as gospel, there's about a dozen posts from established miners offering 10k and 20k batches for sale. Do your own research ffs.

No.

You made the claim, now back it up.

You pointed to the IP list claiming that many miners were there at the start, that claim gets refuted by ip address association. Now you responded making claims contrary to what some of us see.

[illodin]

...

And that's not a complete list, doesn't getpeerinfo order by latency?

Or cut off by -maxconnections.

I had been mining a good while before that list was posted and my miner's IP is not there.

I guess it's refreshing sometimes that by being lucky (being there at the launch) can be rewarding instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms over and over like it used to back in the day.

[r0ach]

Is there any type of beginner's guide to use this scheme to turn my cash to ash with dash?

[qwizzie]

Is there any type of beginner's guide to use this scheme to turn my cash to ash with dash?

sure there is : https://dashtalk.org/threads/taos-masternode-setup-guide-for-dummies.2680/

[othe]

Moreover, if you spend some minutes analyzing the blockchain and you follow the first 1-10 mined blocks (those that are clearly mined by the dev) you will see that eventually they all go to the same addresses, with many other blocks and coins coming from pool-mining, and finally these after weeks don't account for more than 80k XCoins (about 2BTC at the time)

Here he said they gave away 80.000 coins -> https://www.reddit.com/r/DRKCoin/comments/1yy468/175_of_all_the_coins_were_mined_in_24hrs/cfp7248
So yes... he mined 80k  after WEEKS - and gave them all away in the FIRST WEEK, you can tell that to your grandma maybe.

[cryptohunter]

6 steps to start your own scheme

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173474.0

[qwizzie]

The Visionary Scheme

To OP : i like it

[AdamWhite]

So, Stan The Shill says there are "DOZENS" of people saying their IP was not included on the list. Having done thorough research on the biggest ongoing scam in crypto aka DASH i was only able to locate ONE person who says their IP wasn't listed, and that's illodin. Clearly i've missed the others.

So please stop back pedalling Stan and back up you claim.

[cryptohunter]

6 steps to start your own scheme

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173474.0

Yeah, Adam's a really credible source, just check his post history. Anyone so obsessed with running down a topic is either getting paid to do it or needs serious help.

The material he presents is there for all to observe. This is beyond doubt.

Trying to justify or spin it any differently is impossible.

He is not the first nor will he be the last to present these facts to the board.  

[cryptohunter]

6 steps to start your own scheme

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173474.0

Yeah, Adam's a really credible source, just check his post history. Anyone so obsessed with running down a topic is either getting paid to do it or needs serious help.

The material he presents is there for all to observe. This is beyond doubt.

Trying to justify or spin it any differently is impossible.

He is not the first nor will he be the last to present these facts to the board.  

Unfortunetely dear Adam has trouble sometimes to distinguish the facts from the lies, but we have learned to forgive him.
edit : and to ignore him

Present  his lies and let's analyse them in the open.

Also lets check these facts/lies out too....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0

Some to get started with here....  a grand scheme it seems

Let's take a look at the first 5 h of Darkcoin (XCoin at that time)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4589219#msg4589219
Edufield said (after failed launch) that he will wait the next day to launch DRK (XCoin at that time) it is 11 pm.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4591407#msg4591407
Edufield disregard windows wallet and daemon and hurry up his launch, presumably to not have windows miners on board.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4592827#msg4592827
Edufield say he added four nodes for the launch at 4 am (5 hours later, despite his promise to wait). The 4 nodes from Edufield are 3 amazons AWS + another unknown (whois IP). Launch started at 3h54 am.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593601#msg4593601
Edufield said the github version was not updated, nobody could compile and only Edufield was able to mine until that time. It is 5.09 am and Edufield instamined alone 1153 block at 500 DRK + 60 block at reward 277 = 593120 DRK for him alone in about 1 hour.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593987#msg4593987
No windows wallet confirmed at 5h47 am, despite a user attempt to make one avaiable, that Edufield dismissed quickly.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4594096#msg4594096
Illodin, understand dev has instamined alot of coin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573
From this list of nodes, at 8h34 am (4h40 after launch) there were 50 Amazon AWS node and 50 microsoft cloud computing instamining DRK (checked using IP whois service). This is 100/124 nodes using cloud computing to instamine DRK. We are at block 2870 and block reward is 500. From block 1153-1729 block reward is 277. After that it is 500 again hence 2294 block at 500 + 576 at 277 = 1306552 DRK (worth about 13M$ now) were instamined in less than 5 hour by Edufield and coworkers using about 100 cloud mining instances. Edufield himself instamined in not even 5 h from 600K to 1169K DRK ((1306K-600K)*100/124 + 600K) depending how many of the 100 cloud mining instance were its own. All this while having purposefully set the difficult ridiculously low and block reward 100 times what it is now.

From 6M$ - 13M$ in 5 h, Edufield did some lucrative work here!

Edufield is nominee for the Master Scammer 2014 award!

[qwizzie]

That does remind me :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920053.0
2014 Proof of Honor (POH) Awards | Results Posted!



Winner : Evan Duffield

Question is : will there be a Proof of Honor 2015 ?  

Anyways it seems some readers came in a bit late and overread some earlier posts of ours, so being a friendly
helpfull guy i'm providing them again :

Dash Fastmine / Instamine problems in the early days (2014) : The Facts
https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

In this article, we explore the impact of the “instamine” on the Dash ecosystem. There’s been talk from the very beginning of Dash about the very first 24 hours, 1.9 million coins were issued.
We gained access to Evan Duffield to directly answer some questions about the instamine and give us an account of what happened.

[TheDasher]

6 steps to start your own scheme

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173474.0

Yeah, Adam's a really credible source, just check his post history. Anyone so obsessed with running down a topic is either getting paid to do it or needs serious help.

The material he presents is there for all to observe. This is beyond doubt.

Trying to justify or spin it any differently is impossible.

He is not the first nor will he be the last to present these facts to the board.  

Unfortunetely dear Adam has trouble sometimes to distinguish the facts from the lies, but we have learned to forgive him.
edit : and to ignore him

Present  his lies and let's analyse them in the open.

Also lets check these facts/lies out too....

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=560138.0

Some to get started with here....  a grand scheme it seems

Let's take a look at the first 5 h of Darkcoin (XCoin at that time)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4589219#msg4589219
Edufield said (after failed launch) that he will wait the next day to launch DRK (XCoin at that time) it is 11 pm.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4591407#msg4591407
Edufield disregard windows wallet and daemon and hurry up his launch, presumably to not have windows miners on board.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4592827#msg4592827
Edufield say he added four nodes for the launch at 4 am (5 hours later, despite his promise to wait). The 4 nodes from Edufield are 3 amazons AWS + another unknown (whois IP). Launch started at 3h54 am.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593601#msg4593601
Edufield said the github version was not updated, nobody could compile and only Edufield was able to mine until that time. It is 5.09 am and Edufield instamined alone 1153 block at 500 DRK + 60 block at reward 277 = 593120 DRK for him alone in about 1 hour.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593987#msg4593987
No windows wallet confirmed at 5h47 am, despite a user attempt to make one avaiable, that Edufield dismissed quickly.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4594096#msg4594096
Illodin, understand dev has instamined alot of coin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573
From this list of nodes, at 8h34 am (4h40 after launch) there were 50 Amazon AWS node and 50 microsoft cloud computing instamining DRK (checked using IP whois service). This is 100/124 nodes using cloud computing to instamine DRK. We are at block 2870 and block reward is 500. From block 1153-1729 block reward is 277. After that it is 500 again hence 2294 block at 500 + 576 at 277 = 1306552 DRK (worth about 13M$ now) were instamined in less than 5 hour by Edufield and coworkers using about 100 cloud mining instances. Edufield himself instamined in not even 5 h from 600K to 1169K DRK ((1306K-600K)*100/124 + 600K) depending how many of the 100 cloud mining instance were its own. All this while having purposefully set the difficult ridiculously low and block reward 100 times what it is now.

From 6M$ - 13M$ in 5 h, Edufield did some lucrative work here!

Edufield is nominee for the Master Scammer 2014 award!

I would nominate him for 2015 too.  He will certainly come out ahead by a nose that lying Pinocchio fuck.

[qwizzie]

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

Always interesting to see Adam switch troll accounts like that (AdamWhite & TheDasher are the same person)

[TheDasher]

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

I told you, I find it interesting how many of you dummies still defend the scam with so many obvious transgressions by Evan the Instascammer and will ride this sinking ship to the bottom which I go on record as predicting will happen shortly after last feeble attempt to unload bags at Miami conference.

This is pure entertainment.

[qwizzie]

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

for his sake i hope he gets paid in BTC .. specially with todays bull-run.

[cryptohunter]

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

Presenting facts = trolling??

The fact dark was instamined and then had that instamine intentionally magnified is beyond doubt.

So why are there so many threads trying to justify or even deny the fact still being posted even now?

I can only suspect these people are anti-dark/dash.

Best thing for dash/darkers are to confine themselves to their own thread or talk about the tech not try to start more threads defending the distribution.

Evan offered the airdrop and i think he would have gone through with it if not for the pressure from others in the community. I don't think he understood that such a blatant scam would hold back the coin as much as it has and i think he regrets it.  

[qwizzie]

Appearently we have some slow readers tonight who just dont realise there is no denying of Dash's instamine.

Let me re-quote :

Dash Fastmine / Instamine problems in the early days (2014) : The Facts
https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

In this article, we explore the impact of the “instamine” on the Dash ecosystem. There’s been talk from the very beginning of Dash about the very first 24 hours, 1.9 million coins were issued.
We gained access to Evan Duffield to directly answer some questions about the instamine and give us an account of what happened.

Q: Did the instamine happen?

Evan Duffield:“The instamine happened, there is no one disputing that fact. The crypto-community at large has no problem with this except a few who think it’s trying to be hidden in some way. In fact, I posted multiple times about the instamine, first in “The Birth Of Darkcoin” which is an account of the first few weeks of the launch and the mistakes that were made. Recently I also posted spoke about the Instamine in the video “Virtual Corporation”, which considers the concept that it might have been key to Dash’s success, which I believe now.

[qwizzie]

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

for his sake i hope he gets paid in BTC .. specially with todays bull-run.

What makes me wonder though, who's paying them? I mean, it's not like the venom they're spewing does their own coin any good, countless folks have said they'd have nothing to do with it after reading their posts so who benefits from their trolling?

i have no idea, its a very strange way to make money .. thats for sure.

[TheDasher]

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

for his sake i hope he gets paid in BTC .. specially with todays bull-run.

What makes me wonder though, who's paying them? I mean, it's not like the venom they're spewing does their own coin any good, countless folks have said they'd have nothing to do with it after reading their posts so who benefits from their trolling?

i have no idea, its a very strange way to make money .. thats for sure.

See that's your problem right there.  You equate everything to money.  Not everyone needs to earn money at any cost like you little McDuffs.  Some people are entertained by exposing scams.  The crypto community needs to cleanse itself of all these deceitful bad actors before great things can be achieved.

[qwizzie]

i just came across it, made me chuckle

[smooth]

Evan offered the airdrop and i think he would have gone through with it if not for the pressure from others in the community.

The airdrop was bullshit. As he proposed it was going to pay 2 million coins to an address that he controlled, which he would then distribute as he saw fit. Use your imagination. Read up about how other airdrops like Stellar have turned into massive scams.

[BagHolder010]

Evan offered the airdrop and i think he would have gone through with it if not for the pressure from others in the community.
[/ quote]

Cry*p*to developer, the bs is giving someone like Fluffy pony 10% of monero dice while he didn't do any development for 2 years.
You and ur minions hating on Evan because he did things like masternides/instant transactions/ x11...and more. He gets attention with he's inventions and you don't because you didn't do shit.

Stop this hate and do something gur self.

[TheDasher]

Evan offered the airdrop and i think he would have gone through with it if not for the pressure from others in the community.


Cry*p*to developer, the bs is giving someone like Fluffy pony 10% of monero dice while he didn't do any development for 2 years.
You and ur minions hating on Evan because he did things like masternides/instant transactions/ x11...and more. He gets attention with he's inventions and you don't because you didn't do shit.

Stop this hate and do something gur self.

Your screen name is so fitting.

#HOLDTHEMBAGSTIGHT
#DONTLETGO
#REKTMIAMI2016

[smooth]

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

[AdamWhite]

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

What's in it for you Stan? Defending the known fraud scheme DASH in every thread imaginable. Are you defending it out of the goodness of your heart?

Still waiting for you to back up those claims you made earlier in the thread. Sounds like you're just a bunch of hot air like the rest of the Dashtards.

You're quickly not only losing the little credibility you had but incriminating yourself by defending and promoting a known fraud scheme. Keep it up!

[BagHolder010]

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

Go invent anything 1st....better yet go solve a soduko game buzzle since u can't code. #GUIWALLET next summer

[TheDasher]

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

Go invent anything 1st....better yet go solve a soduko game buzzle since u can't code. #GUIWALLET next summer

Ahh... You like that eh!!

#REKTMIAMI2016

[qwizzie]

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

Lets face its, Evan and his very talented team did more then just changing some hash functions last year, lets get over the achievements so far shall we :

Creating and opensourcing Darksend
Creating InstantX
Replacing the referencenode with a decentralised solution
Implementing Bitcoin Core version 0.10 into Dash
Creating an automatic backup system within the Dash wallet
Upgrades to the GUI wallet
Created a decentralised budgetting system
Created a decentralised governance system

One could say Evan and his team were kinda busy this year and last year. To see the activities on Github while enjoying some nice music :

Dash (Darkcoin) Github Visualization 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai5V4Upblog

Dash Github Visualization 2015*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNCm-6GCCSE

* due to Dash forking from Bitcoin you will see not only development on Dash but also on Bitcoin

[BagHolder010]

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

Go invent anything 1st....better yet go solve a soduko game buzzle since u can't code. #GUIWALLET next summer

Ahh... You like that eh!!

#REKTMIAMI2016

Don't tell me XMR developers themselves gonna give flyers there...might be to much giving 5 XMR a day for so many till the after all lol.

P.s I realized I miss quoted 1 page b4 sorry.

[smooth]

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

Lets face its, Evan and [others] did more then just changing some hash functions

I agree but "Inventor of x11" is in the thread title like it is a major accomplishment. I didn't put it there.

Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil.

[Minotaur26]

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

Lets face its, Evan and [others] did more then just changing some hash functions

I agree but "Inventor of x11" is in the thread title like it is a major accomplishment. I didn't put it there.

Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil.

Well you need to understand that Dash has grown a lot in terms of community. No one officially said changing the number of hash functions is technically brilliant but it did serve a very important purpose for us. "Inventor of X11" is just a fact not necessarily a big technical accomplishment. Although I would argue that it was a really smart project management move that does have merit.

Should we have gone with Scrypt which was the popular algorithm at the time or SHA256, ASICS would have dominated the coin too early.  So Evan came up with a solution to allow a more independent and organic growth of the coin and it has been great for us.

That's it, no big deal. There has been hundreds of coins since January 2014 and yet Dash is still here in the top 5 while being a coin that is still minable through GPUs and that is all we wanted from X11.

We will continue to develop and promote Dash to the best of our ability if some people in anonymous forums feel they can do better developing and managing an alternative crypto currency, they can work on their projects and do better. No one is holding anyone back, diversity is good for the space


Edit:

About this,

"Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil."

I think the issue lies on trying to reduce accomplishments to strictly highly technical stuff and disregarding accomplishments that relate to growing and maintaining a crypto currency project and community. I think that is a major oversight in most projects and a reality everyone will have to deal with so we will just see in time what approaches do better.

[AdamWhite]

Are you going to respond to this or will you continue ignoring it? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1220204.0

Edit: He's ignoring it.

[smooth]

Well you need to understand that Dash has grown a lot in terms of community. No one officially said changing the number of hash functions is technically brilliant but it did serve a very important purpose for us. "Inventor of X11" is just a fact not necessarily a big technical accomplishment. Although I would argue that it was a really smart project management move that does have merit.

Should we have gone with Scrypt which was the popular algorithm at the time or SHA256, ASICS would have dominated the coin too early.  So Evan came up with a solution to allow a more independent and organic growth of the coin and it has been great for us.

That's it, no big deal. There has been hundreds of coins since January 2014 and yet Dash is still here in the top 5 while being a coin that is still minable through GPUs and that is all we wanted from X11.

The point is there were already chained hash algorithms. On another thread someone posted a chronology. It is disputed whether the other 11-hash variant (with the order of one of the eleven hashes swapped) was before or after Dash, but it is not disputed that there were certainly other chained hash algorithms before x11.

I don't disagree about whether choosing SHA256 or Scrypt would have produced different results, and perhaps using a multi hash was a great decision. That doesn't change the fact that claiming a change to the number of hash algorithms and/or their order as an invention is a huge stretch.

"Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil."

I think the issue lies on trying to reduce accomplishments to strictly highly technical stuff and disregarding accomplishments that relate to growing and maintaining a crypto currency project and community.

My comment was in response to a posted list of mostly technical (at least to varying degrees) items. On the separate question of whether growing an maintaining projects and communities is also important you will get no argument from me.

But realistically it is also pretty pointless to build a project and community if the technology is no good. That has to be the foundation or the emperor has no clothes.

[Minotaur26]

Well you need to understand that Dash has grown a lot in terms of community. No one officially said changing the number of hash functions is technically brilliant but it did serve a very important purpose for us. "Inventor of X11" is just a fact not necessarily a big technical accomplishment. Although I would argue that it was a really smart project management move that does have merit.

Should we have gone with Scrypt which was the popular algorithm at the time or SHA256, ASICS would have dominated the coin too early.  So Evan came up with a solution to allow a more independent and organic growth of the coin and it has been great for us.

That's it, no big deal. There has been hundreds of coins since January 2014 and yet Dash is still here in the top 5 while being a coin that is still minable through GPUs and that is all we wanted from X11.

The point is there were already multi-hash algorithms. On another thread someone posted a chronology. It is disputed whether the other 11-hash variant (with the order of one of the eleven hashes swapped) was before or after Dash, but it is not disputed that there were certainly other multi-hash algorithms that came before x11.

I don't disagree about whether choosing SHA256 or Scrypt would have produced different results, and perhaps using a multi hash was a great decision. That doesn't change the fact that claiming a change to the number of hash algorithms and/or their order as an invention is a huge stretch.

"Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil."

I think the issue lies on trying to reduce accomplishments to strictly highly technical stuff and disregarding accomplishments that relate to growing and maintaining a crypto currency project and community.

My comment was a response to a posted list of mostly technical (at least to varying degrees) items. On the separate question of whether growing an maintaining projects and communities is also important you will get no argument from me.

Then I think we are on agreement maybe "Invention" is not the best word, but it does say of X11 the particular brand or version of multi-hash algorithm Evan introduced, so that is true.  Maybe a little context is needed, for whatever reason X11 became popular and after a while there were many coins using it and a lot of new users did not know it came from Dash, so at the time that was put there to make that distinction.

[dnaleor]

I'm still very surprised to see that people actually believe this instamine was an accident  

I mean, just look at the facts:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin.
How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
Answer: by premining and/or instamining.
How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.

How can this be all an accident and NOT be intentional?

=> DASH was clearly a planned instamine scam.

[smoothie]

...
How many people claimed this that you can quote?

100? 200? 300?

Please enlighten us all on how many you have actually heard from claiming this.

Again, read through the start of the thread instead of taking the word of random fudders as gospel, there's about a dozen posts from established miners offering 10k and 20k batches for sale. Do your own research ffs.

No.

You made the claim, now back it up.

You pointed to the IP list claiming that many miners were there at the start, that claim gets refuted by ip address association. Now you responded making claims contrary to what some of us see.

No, you made all kinds of false claims and I'm refuting them. Here's someone who was there:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12691335#msg12691335

EDIT: Quoting in case clicking a link's too much trouble for you:

clearly a mistake...

With all the damning evidence released clearly showing the instamine was obviously intentional........

"evidence"?  I'll try to reply to a troll

I was there during the "instamine", go check the first pages of this thread and you will see me complaining and discussing.

Evan updated the code many times during the first hours/days because various mistakes. I had some talks in IRC with him during the first days/weeks, and my conclusion was that the instamine happened because he just wasn't very familiarized with Bitcoin codebase and he didn't test his coin properly before launch, plus, at that time most coins were launched without a proper difficulty adjustment algorithm (Kimoto's Gravity Well was fresh new at that time and most coins didn't include it at launch).

I also saw his nickname mining in pools, he didn't even ranking top 10 of the miners (and pools had most of network's hashrate), at that time people didn't hide their nicknames in pools and you were used to see always the same names.

Moreover, if you spend some minutes analyzing the blockchain and you follow the first 1-10 mined blocks (those that are clearly mined by the dev) you will see that eventually they all go to the same addresses, with many other blocks and coins coming from pool-mining, and finally these after weeks don't account for more than 80k XCoins (about 2BTC at the time). I guess that's why he tried to buy some more, and he made it publicly (of course people like you would had thought he was hyping it to then dump his coins at higher price). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4961359#msg4961359

But the most important, the instamine didn't matter, if anything, it helped with the distribution, and the reason is because during the first weeks of life of XCoin you could buy 100k XCoin for just 2.5BTC - 5BTC, so everyone had his chance for weeks to decide to risk and buy or just sell (I myself sold more than 50k XCoin for less than 2BTC, and decided to buy some back later more expensive):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4889177#msg4889177
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4872871#msg4872871
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4867363#msg4867363

Next time you talk about the instamine, understand that those of us who don't care about it is because we understand what happened (can't say the same about you or others just repeating the same over and over without proper knowledge or analysis). We judge XCoin-Darkcoin-DASH (and Evan) for 20 months of upgrades, delivering promises and innovation, and we invest in it because we know it will continue delivering.

Is that it?

Oh and by the way it wasn't me who made the claim that "there was hundreds of miners"....it was your fearful leader Evan.

So who needs to provide proof? I think Evan does, not me.

[smooth]

Then I think we are on agreement maybe "Invention" is not the best word, but it does say of X11 the particular brand or version of multi-hash algorithm Evan introduced, so that is true.  Maybe a little context is needed, for whatever reason X11 became popular and after a while there were many coins using it and a lot of new users did not know it came from Dash, so at the time that was put there to make that distinction.

That is fair. I wasn't aware of the context of many other coins using it without giving credit. Thanks for the background.

[illodin]

Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.

"Investigation" lol. How can you possibly say that 124 IP list is a comprehensive list of all nodes or miners online at that time? If anything it looks like it's a snapshot of nodes one peer was seeing at one point in time. What a coincidence there are 124 peers in that list you base your "investigation" on when considering the default value for -maxconnections is 125. My miner's IP isn't on that list and I had been mining a good while when that list was posted. And what is a "private user" vs cloud miner? It was very common at that time to mine cpu mineable coins using cloud instances, are you claiming all those Amazon and Azure nodes were Evan's?

*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start.

Yes he and InternetApe was a team. The most likely distribution between them was 50-50. InternetApe dumped what he had left and took off a year ago or so.

It wasn't a hobby.

If he was at work at the same time, wasn't it a hobby? Perhaps he can provide a proof he was still working for another employer while launching it.

he had a plan to make a profit.

Would it have made you satisfied if his plan was to lose money?

=> DASH is clearly the reason Monero isn't going anywhere.

Disagree.

[smoothie]

=> DASH is clearly the reason Monero isn't going anywhere.

Disagree.

Yeah but that (in bold) is not what dnaleor said.  

Please stay on topic as this thread is not about Monero, but DASH. 

[illodin]

=> DASH is clearly the reason Monero isn't going anywhere.

Disagree.

Yeah but that (in bold) is not what dnaleor said.  

Yeah but that is what he believes.

Please stay on topic as this thread is not about Monero, but DASH.  

It is very much about Monero for him, you, and the poster below yours.

[smoothie]

=> DASH is clearly the reason Monero isn't going anywhere.

Disagree.

Yeah but that (in bold) is not what dnaleor said.  

Yeah but that is what he believes.

Please stay on topic as this thread is not about Monero, but DASH.  

It is very much about Monero for him, you, and the poster below yours.

No. Please don't speak for me.

My calling out dash as a scam coin is about simply that...calling out a scam. It has nothing to do with Monero.

You can create theories all you want but it doesn't prove anything other than making you look silly/childish.

[illodin]

You can create theories all you want but it doesn't prove anything other than making you look silly/childish.

You could say that again.

[smoothie]

You can create theories all you want but it doesn't prove anything other than making you look silly/childish.

You could say that again.

So you take a cheap shot then point the finger?

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

lol

[illodin]

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

Could be a coincidence of course.

Still waiting for your take on

• Axiom
• SmartPoker
• BobSurplus

I have a few more after you're done.

[smoothie]

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

Could be a coincidence of course.

Still waiting for your take on

• Axiom
• SmartPoker
• BobSurplus

I have a few more after you're done.

You do realize I don't work for you.

I work on my own will. Dash appears to be a much bigger operation than all of those combined.

I've done my fair share of scam busting on this forum: MTGOX, BFL, PIRATEAT40 etc

Diverting attention elsewhere doesn't remove the issues with DASH.

[illodin]

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

Could be a coincidence of course.

Still waiting for your take on

• Axiom
• SmartPoker
• BobSurplus

I have a few more after you're done.

You do realize I don't work for you.

I work on my own will. Dash appears to be a much bigger operation than all of those combined.

I've done my fair share of scam busting on this forum: MTGOX, BFL, PIRATEAT40 etc

Diverting attention elsewhere doesn't remove the issues with DASH.

Ok I believe you it is just a coincidence that the only people spending most of their energy on DASH "issues" are heavily involved with Monero.

[generalizethis]

Its funny how I've tried to deal in the facts about how dash has such a shady history yet for some reason my calling out dash on its shadiness is "because of my involvement with Monero".

Could be a coincidence of course.

Still waiting for your take on

• Axiom
• SmartPoker
• BobSurplus

I have a few more after you're done.

You do realize I don't work for you.

I work on my own will. Dash appears to be a much bigger operation than all of those combined.

I've done my fair share of scam busting on this forum: MTGOX, BFL, PIRATEAT40 etc

Diverting attention elsewhere doesn't remove the issues with DASH.

Ok I believe you it is just a coincidence that the only people spending most of their energy on DASH "issues" are heavily involved with Monero.

What you fail to acknowledge is that Monero supporters get along great with other fairly launched coins that do privacy correctly (AEON, BBR, the real Dash coin) so it's not a competition thing, it's a "your coin sucks at privacy and had a shitty launch" thing. Though I think the fact that many still believe dash is a good privacy coin, rubs those who know better the wrong way.

Every claim puts a target on your back and the bigger the market cap the bigger the spotlight. So get out of the spotlight, stop making faulty claims, or stop bitching about it. My guess is that better research and gravity will take care of the first two for you, so you can stand there blindfolded and with your hands over your ears, yelling, "Everyone is just jelly!" while your hype machine enjoys its catastrophic reentry.

[illodin]

What you fail to acknowledge is that Monero supporters get along great with other fairly launched coins that do privacy correctly (AEON, BBR, the real Dash coin) so it's not a competition thing, it's a "your coin sucks at privacy and had a shitty launch" thing. Though I think the fact that many still believe dash is a good privacy coin, rubs those who know better the wrong way.

You're picking coins two orders of magnitude smaller to prove you're getting along great with "competing" projects. 

You could say DASH community would get along with Monero just fine (i.e. ignore it) if Monero didn't constantly try to brew up drama and FUD. It makes Monerons look like coattail riders with little brother syndrome, tell me it ain't so?

stop making faulty claims

What faulty claims have I made?

[generalizethis]

What you fail to acknowledge is that Monero supporters get along great with other fairly launched coins that do privacy correctly (AEON, BBR, the real Dash coin) so it's not a competition thing, it's a "your coin sucks at privacy and had a shitty launch" thing. Though I think the fact that many still believe dash is a good privacy coin, rubs those who know better the wrong way.

You're picking coins two orders of magnitude smaller to prove you're getting along great with "competing" projects.  

You could say DASH community would get along with Monero just fine (i.e. ignore it) if Monero didn't constantly try to brew up drama and FUD. It makes Monerons look like coattail riders with little brother syndrome, tell me it ain't so?

stop making faulty claims

What faulty claims have I made?

It ain't so. I told you my belief. You'll have to get the others to tell you theirs.

So you believe dash is a good privacy coin? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

[illodin]

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

There you go again with your fair launch delusions when 99.9999% of the population isn't even aware coins are being launched every day.

It's not the dev's fault some people want to pay something for the coins thus giving them value. You don't have to buy or mine coins, no one is forcing you, it is not necessary for you to do so. If someone else does though, it's not unfair to you the slightest. If I create a program that generates a million tokens out of thin air and I keep them all to myself, and you for some reason want to buy one of them for $1, all of a sudden I hold $1MM worth of computer data. Was this unfair to someone? Who was scammed? When Gates and Allen founded Microsoft and got most of the shares, was that a fair launch?

I think it's interesting though that even small time miners managed to hit some blocks and buy some coins cheap by being lucky of being there early instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms and whales. The launch was different than Monero's, it's a good thing there is plenty of choice available for everyone to choose what they like.

[generalizethis]

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

There you go again with your fair launch delusions when 99.9999% of the population isn't even aware coins are being launched every day.

It's not the dev's fault some people want to pay something for the coins thus giving them value. You don't have to buy or mine coins, no one is forcing you, it is not necessary for you to do so. If someone else does though, it's not unfair to you the slightest. If I create a program that generates a million tokens out of thin air and I keep them all to myself, and you for some reason want to buy one of them for $1, all of a sudden I hold $1MM worth of computer data. Was this unfair to someone? Who was scammed? When Gates and Allen founded Microsoft and got most of the shares, was that a fair launch?

I think it's interesting though that even small time miners managed to hit some blocks and buy some coins cheap by being lucky of being there early instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms and whales. The launch was different than Monero's, it's a good thing there is plenty of choice available for everyone to choose what they like.

My point was that if you claimed that dash was launched fairly and the privacy is good, then comparing it to Monero, BBR, the real Dash, and AEON is fair--but if you don't, then your claim that Monero and Dash are competing projects and that it is the source of the criticisms is faulty. My assertion is that it is the false comparison built on Evan's claims that has led to much of the animosity, and if dash was honest with what it is (another shit coin with a terrible launch with faux technological advantages), then no one would bother to criticize it for making faulty claims.

To put it more simply, you would need a fair launch and equal privacy to be in competition with Monero. I don't see it, but you are more than encouraged to make that claim so i or someone else can refute it.

[iCEBREAKER]

Dec 2013: eduffield posts on Bitcoin-Development mailing list looking to hire for his "for-profit startup"

Jan 2014: 1.5 million DASH or roughly 30% of all coins currently in circulation are instamined in 8 hours, allowing eduffield to hire eduffield as Full-time lead developer


Do you really think anyone with a brain believes this was an accident? Do you think a judge would believe it?

What kind of tax rates do you pay when you hire yourself with your own instamine?

Is there windfall, then corporate, then personal income, or what?

Maybe it's just easier to declare the obviously-for-profit startup a "nonprofit" such as the 501(c)(6) entity called THE DARKCOIN FOUNDATION, INC.

I guess then the proceeds of the instamine become "donations."

Nice work, if you can get (away with) it.

[solid12345]

Nothing in life is fair. The Dark instamine wasn't fair. It's not fair early Monero adopters got punished with runaway inflation. It's not fair 1st year Bitcoin miners were able to mine thousands of coins with crappy CPUs and cheap electricity. It's not fair Leo Dicaprio doesn't have an oscar. It's not fair I'm not rich. It's all just so unfair!

[illodin]

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

There you go again with your fair launch delusions when 99.9999% of the population isn't even aware coins are being launched every day.

It's not the dev's fault some people want to pay something for the coins thus giving them value. You don't have to buy or mine coins, no one is forcing you, it is not necessary for you to do so. If someone else does though, it's not unfair to you the slightest. If I create a program that generates a million tokens out of thin air and I keep them all to myself, and you for some reason want to buy one of them for $1, all of a sudden I hold $1MM worth of computer data. Was this unfair to someone? Who was scammed? When Gates and Allen founded Microsoft and got most of the shares, was that a fair launch?

I think it's interesting though that even small time miners managed to hit some blocks and buy some coins cheap by being lucky of being there early instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms and whales. The launch was different than Monero's, it's a good thing there is plenty of choice available for everyone to choose what they like.

My point was that if you claimed that dash was launched fairly and the privacy is good, then comparing it to Monero, BBR, the real Dash, and AEON is fair--but if you don't, then your claim that Monero and Dash are competing projects and that it is the source of the criticisms is faulty. My assertion is that it is the false comparison built on Evan's claims that has led to much of the animosity, and if dash was honest with what it is (another shit coin with a terrible launch with faux technological advantages), then no one would bother to criticize it for making faulty claims.

To put it more simply, you would need a fair launch and equal privacy to be in competition with Monero. I don't see it, but you are more than encouraged to make that claim so i or someone else can refute it.

Look, I know you can keep going 24/7 and take turns but I'll just have to stop at some point so I'll just leave these here:

• It's easy to be all good and friendly with "competition" 1% of your size
• If DASH was 1% of your size you wouldn't give a shit
• There is no fair launch, life is not fair
• It's a free world, you're not forced or required to have the same percentage of an asset as everyone else. You can go create your own digital token and assign 99% of it to yourself to balance the irritation all this unfairness has caused you.

[generalizethis]

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

There you go again with your fair launch delusions when 99.9999% of the population isn't even aware coins are being launched every day.

It's not the dev's fault some people want to pay something for the coins thus giving them value. You don't have to buy or mine coins, no one is forcing you, it is not necessary for you to do so. If someone else does though, it's not unfair to you the slightest. If I create a program that generates a million tokens out of thin air and I keep them all to myself, and you for some reason want to buy one of them for $1, all of a sudden I hold $1MM worth of computer data. Was this unfair to someone? Who was scammed? When Gates and Allen founded Microsoft and got most of the shares, was that a fair launch?

I think it's interesting though that even small time miners managed to hit some blocks and buy some coins cheap by being lucky of being there early instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms and whales. The launch was different than Monero's, it's a good thing there is plenty of choice available for everyone to choose what they like.

My point was that if you claimed that dash was launched fairly and the privacy is good, then comparing it to Monero, BBR, the real Dash, and AEON is fair--but if you don't, then your claim that Monero and Dash are competing projects and that it is the source of the criticisms is faulty. My assertion is that it is the false comparison built on Evan's claims that has led to much of the animosity, and if dash was honest with what it is (another shit coin with a terrible launch with faux technological advantages), then no one would bother to criticize it for making faulty claims.

To put it more simply, you would need a fair launch and equal privacy to be in competition with Monero. I don't see it, but you are more than encouraged to make that claim so i or someone else can refute it.

Look, I know you can keep going 24/7 and take turns but I'll just have to stop at some point so I'll just leave these here:

• It's easy to be all good and friendly with "competition" 1% of your size
• If DASH was 1% of your size you wouldn't give a shit
• There is no fair launch, life is not fair
• It's a free world, you're not forced or required to have the same percentage of an asset as everyone else. You can go create your own digital token and assign 99% of it to yourself to balance the irritation all this unfairness has caused you.

If DASH was 1% of its current size, you wouldn't give a shit either--but here we are and the spotlight is on.

It's a free world and i can keep pointing out that dash has flawed privacy. And can tell others that they shouldn't reward a few who got in early--a few who most likely manipulated events so they could gain even more advantage than the "accidental" shortcoming in the coin's code gave them already.


The market decides, but some of us want the narrative honest and open (fair) without any schemes or shortcomings going unnoticed in the shadows.

[HeroCat]

Dash is quite popular, average user do not care about some technical details 

[wopakee]

Do you believe that dash was fairly launched? If so, I would say that is a faulty claim.

There you go again with your fair launch delusions when 99.9999% of the population isn't even aware coins are being launched every day.

It's not the dev's fault some people want to pay something for the coins thus giving them value. You don't have to buy or mine coins, no one is forcing you, it is not necessary for you to do so. If someone else does though, it's not unfair to you the slightest. If I create a program that generates a million tokens out of thin air and I keep them all to myself, and you for some reason want to buy one of them for $1, all of a sudden I hold $1MM worth of computer data. Was this unfair to someone? Who was scammed? When Gates and Allen founded Microsoft and got most of the shares, was that a fair launch?

I think it's interesting though that even small time miners managed to hit some blocks and buy some coins cheap by being lucky of being there early instead of all the coins going to the same mining farms and whales. The launch was different than Monero's, it's a good thing there is plenty of choice available for everyone to choose what they like.

My point was that if you claimed that dash was launched fairly and the privacy is good, then comparing it to Monero, BBR, the real Dash, and AEON is fair--but if you don't, then your claim that Monero and Dash are competing projects and that it is the source of the criticisms is faulty. My assertion is that it is the false comparison built on Evan's claims that has led to much of the animosity, and if dash was honest with what it is (another shit coin with a terrible launch with faux technological advantages), then no one would bother to criticize it for making faulty claims.

To put it more simply, you would need a fair launch and equal privacy to be in competition with Monero. I don't see it, but you are more than encouraged to make that claim so i or someone else can refute it.

Look, I know you can keep going 24/7 and take turns but I'll just have to stop at some point so I'll just leave these here:

• It's easy to be all good and friendly with "competition" 1% of your size
• If DASH was 1% of your size you wouldn't give a shit
• There is no fair launch, life is not fair
• It's a free world, you're not forced or required to have the same percentage of an asset as everyone else. You can go create your own digital token and assign 99% of it to yourself to balance the irritation all this unfairness has caused you.

True.
Distribution is a huge problem, depending on how you look at it things will appear unfair.
 
My point is that what people mined called Xcoin IS not what we call Dash today. People will continue to argue about this, calling it scam etc, but they cannot provide any good distribution model themselves.
Instamine goes for all coins, it's relative. The people who mined bitmonero the first 24 hours probably got also 100's of thousands monero.
A fair distribution model would adapt to the amount of miners.

But who the fuck wants a fair distribution? It takes away all the fun. This is a gold rush, it's not meant to be fair, suckaz. Thats why we complain on all the coins we missed out on

[generalizethis]

Dash is quite popular, average user do not care about some technical details 

Average user? Or average speculator? I don't think any coin (including Bitcoin) can claim an average user base with any regard to the average person living on earth.

Also, if Evan would admit his privacy scheme is flawed or submit to a rigorous code analysis (anonymint is qualified and has expressed interest) and place the instamine label on his media, then we wouldn't be having this dialogue--apparently those in charge at dash don't share your cynical analysis of the average user (cryptomyopia or otherwise).

[iCEBREAKER]

Dash is quite popular, average user do not care about some technical details 

Average user kept coins on MtGox.

Nice appeal to popularity though.  Try to make it more obvious next time.  I bet you can't!

#rekt

[iCEBREAKER]

My point is that what people mined called Xcoin IS not what we call Dash today.

Good point.  Evan's hobbyist project is an endless rabbit hole.  It keeps changing names/brands, goals, emission, rewards, etc.

A coin should not be re-launched more times than the iPhone.

Bitcoin, Monero, and other legitimate coins' communities would never put up with such blatant disregard for their existing social contracts.

But the DashHoles cheer wildly and clap louder when their centralized leadership tells them what they're doing next.

Why is that?  Is it because anyone like vertoe, who expected consistency and transparency and decentralization, left in disgust long ago?

Is it because the only people left in the Dash cult are the most hopeless of True Believers, ready to guzzle the Kool-Aid on their leader's command?

The people who mined bitmonero the first 24 hours probably got also 100's of thousands monero.

That's completely and demonstrably false; you are just attacking-the-attackers using lies.  Accounting for compression effects, Monero emission has always been well within design parameters.

[smooth]

Instamine goes for all coins, it's relative. The people who mined bitmonero the first 24 hours probably got also 100's of thousands monero.

LOL no.

Relative yes. Comparable to any meaningful extent, no.

Total mined in the first 24 hours of Bitmonero 27,300.456199349552
Total mined in the second 24 hours of Bitmonero 27,206.695525935472
Total mined now per 24 hours (approx): 11,854.01642329008

Total mined in first 24 hours of Dash (approx): 1,500,000
Total mined in second 24 hours of Dash (approx): 500,000
Total mined now per 24 hours (approx): 1,440

The Dash instamine stands alone among coins of any note today. Only the worst of instamined scam shitcoins is even a close. Not a "relative" comparison to be proud of by any means.

[PoS]

Its a Masternode scheme scam where the instamine continuously grows.
Since the masternode payment coming from the instamine coins was always greater than 50% the ratio will only rise until the whole thing collapses.

[wopakee]

Instamine goes for all coins, it's relative. The people who mined bitmonero the first 24 hours probably got also 100's of thousands monero.

LOL no.

Relative yes. Comparable to any meaningful extent, no.

Total mined in the first 24 hours of Bitmonero 27,300.456199349552
Total mined in the second 24 hours of Bitmonero 27,206.695525935472
Total mined now per 24 hours (approx): 11,854.01642329008

Total mined in first 24 hours of Dash (approx): 1,500,000
Total mined in second 24 hours of Dash (approx): 500,000
Total mined now per 24 hours (approx): 1,440

The Dash instamine stands alone among coins of any note today. Only the worst of instamined scam shitcoins is even a close. Not a "relative" comparison to be proud of by any means.

Ok my mistake. But my main point remains, which is that Dash has the most interesting, nondeterministic distribution model.

Who got the millions of Dash at the early stages? No one knows. And these people could not have foreseen that Xcoin(which Dash was built upon) was going to get any value at all. In fact, only very naive people would assume that a bugged coin like that would even make it to an exchange.
We also have to remember that this was launched early 2014, right after the November 2013 mega spike in Bitcoin. During this time coins were launched to left and right, Dash was literally buried by a ton of "well orchestrated" coins. It was considered a piece of garbage for the first 3 months. Even if it would have had a "proper" distribution model, millions of coins would already have been mined and hoarded by the ferocious whales which dominates this market. That's my final assessment.

[smoothie]

Its a Masternode scheme scam where the instamine continuously grows.
Since the masternode payment coming from the instamine coins was always greater than 50% the ratio will only rise until the whole thing collapses.

There is a coming crash in dash and we haven't seen nothing yet. Those large holders will cash out eventually. The masternode system is a broken one, no wonder evan wants to get away from it.

But wasn't the Masternode system touted as the "holy grail" when it was launched? Now Evan wants to distance himself from it by changing it?

SMH

[smoothie]

Instamine goes for all coins, it's relative. The people who mined bitmonero the first 24 hours probably got also 100's of thousands monero.

LOL no.

Relative yes. Comparable to any meaningful extent, no.

Total mined in the first 24 hours of Bitmonero 27,300.456199349552
Total mined in the second 24 hours of Bitmonero 27,206.695525935472
Total mined now per 24 hours (approx): 11,854.01642329008

Total mined in first 24 hours of Dash (approx): 1,500,000
Total mined in second 24 hours of Dash (approx): 500,000
Total mined now per 24 hours (approx): 1,440

The Dash instamine stands alone among coins of any note today. Only the worst of instamined scam shitcoins is even a close. Not a "relative" comparison to be proud of by any means.

Ok my mistake. But my main point remains, which is that Dash has the most interesting, nondeterministic distribution model.

Who got the millions of Dash at the early stages? No one knows. And these people could not have foreseen that Xcoin(which Dash was built upon) was going to get any value at all. In fact, only very naive people would assume that a bugged coin like that would even make it to an exchange.
We also have to remember that this was launched early 2014, right after the November 2013 mega spike in Bitcoin. During this time coins were launched to left and right, Dash was literally buried by a ton of "well orchestrated" coins. It was considered a piece of garbage for the first 3 months. Even if it would have had a "proper" distribution model, millions of coins would already have been mined and hoarded by the ferocious whales which dominates this market. That's my final assessment.

We all know Evan was the first miner and probably had several dozen if not a hundred VPS instances mining XCOIN/dash/dark/watever.

Interesting distribution? Yes in the first 72 hours about half of the current supply was mined (after like 20 months). Not very interesting from an actual distribution point of view...but from a scam point of view it is interesting is why it is so controversial why people do not like dash/dark/whatever you call it.

[illodin]

We all know Evan was the first miner and probably had several dozen if not a hundred VPS instances mining XCOIN/dash/dark/watever.

How do you know Evan mined the first block and not InternetApe?

[smoothie]

We all know Evan was the first miner and probably had several dozen if not a hundred VPS instances mining XCOIN/dash/dark/watever.

How do you know Evan mined the first block and not InternetApe?

Does it matter between the two of them as they were somewhat connected at the hip with this "non-profit venture"?

[illodin]

We all know Evan was the first miner and probably had several dozen if not a hundred VPS instances mining XCOIN/dash/dark/watever.

How do you know Evan mined the first block and not InternetApe?

Does it matter between the two of them as they were somewhat connected at the hip with this "non-profit venture"?

If you assume they split everything 50-50 as a team it makes Evan's cut 50% smaller, and you exaggerate the numbers at least by a factor of 2.

[qwizzie]

Such obsession with the instamine while Dash has moved on and so have their users. Fact is those of us involved with Dash
know about the instamine and just dont care about it anymore.  

For those interested in some facts about the Dash instamine  :

date : 29 march 2014
https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/



******* Number of times read : 11999 *******

Q: Did the instamine happen?

Evan Duffield:“The instamine happened, there is no one disputing that fact. The crypto-community at large has no problem with this except a few who think it’s trying to be hidden in some way. In fact, I posted multiple times about the instamine, first in “The Birth Of Darkcoin” which is an account of the first few weeks of the launch and the mistakes that were made. Recently I also posted spoke about the Instamine in the video “Virtual Corporation”, which considers the concept that it might have been key to Dash’s success, which I believe now.

date : 11 october 2015
https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

date : 21 september 2015
https://www.youtube.com/embed/eEJKZjTx9Bg
time 7:26

I remember buying Dash (Darkcoin back then) in May 2014 at 0.025 & 0.026 BTC with BTC in the $500 range,
do i blame Dash or Bitcoin later on when they both dropped so much in price? No ... i take full responsebility
for my own actions as i was aware about the risks involved with cryptocurrency (central bank's around the world
issued warnings informing us about the risks after all).




      

[PoS]

Re: Why Dash is not a scam, but a scheme

At the end of the day 'schemes' (Ponzi scheme, Pyramid scheme, Masternode scheme....) collapse at the end.

[smoothie]

We all know Evan was the first miner and probably had several dozen if not a hundred VPS instances mining XCOIN/dash/dark/watever.

How do you know Evan mined the first block and not InternetApe?

Does it matter between the two of them as they were somewhat connected at the hip with this "non-profit venture"?

If you assume they split everything 50-50 as a team it makes Evan's cut 50% smaller, and you exaggerate the numbers at least by a factor of 2.

So if they combined mined 1,000,000 dash then each of them got 500,000 in like 2 days of mining.

So does it really change anything if my scenario is true?

500,000 is ~10% of total mining supply.

[smooth]

Who got the millions of Dash at the early stages? No one knows.

It may be true that no one knows but what we do know is that everything happening so quickly gives enormous structural advantage to those who had highly topical inside information.

As you say, we can't really see the outcome, but we can see the structure, so that's the only way to judge. The salient question is not was it cheated in a massive way, but rather, could it have been cheated in a massive way and in the case of Dash the answer is a resounding yes.

There is always inside information of at various times of course, but slowing things down to happen over months, years, or decades means the effect of being in the right place at the right time, either accidentally or more importantly by design, is vastly reduced.

People keep making the correct point that absolute speed of distribution matters, but Dash supporters just don't want to get it. Take Litecoin for example. It had a small instamine because of the fixed-interval difficulty adjustment algorithm that was ubiquitous at the time. but since Litecoin distributes its supply relatively slowly, over years to decades, not hours or days, the effect of that was negligible.

It doesn't even matter (much) whether LTC's instamine was rigged intentionally and grabbed by insiders or an accident and split among many lucky miners, because the relative amount is small, and that is an objective structural fact. As with Dash, distributional outcomes and intentions are not fully knowable, but the resilience and soundness (in the case of Litecoin) or the fragility and unsoundness (in the case of Dash) of the structures are fully knowable and fully known.

And these people could not have foreseen that Xcoin(which Dash was built upon) was going to get any value at all.

That is true for most people. But someone who knew that it had actual development plans would have a far, far better chance to conclude this than people operating in the dark (no pun intended). The only people with this enormous advantage were Evan and people working with Evan.

[toknormal]

but Dash supporters just don't want to get it.

We get it alright. It's just that we attach a price to it as opposed to a judgement.

[1aguar]

Most miners will dump any coin as soon as they are able to. The really "lucky" ones are those who believed in the project from the beginning and held their coins until the end, and probably promoted the coin along the way. When investing in start-ups, one should expect to keep one's money frozen for years. Patience is a virtue. In DASH, one could have made several thousand times the initial investment, but only with patience and belief in the endurance of the project. In hindsight, XCoin was not a bad coin for a small investment (maybe 0.1 BTC, like mentioned in the OP), but in my experience nearly every member on the bitcoin forum is hesitant to risk any amount of funds for the long-term.

[iCEBREAKER]

Who got the millions of Dash at the early stages? No one knows.

It may be true that no one knows but what we do know is that everything happening so quickly gives enormous structural advantage to those who had highly topical inside information.

As you say, we can't really see the outcome, but we can see the structure, so that's the only way to judge. The salient question is not was it cheated in a massive way, but rather, could it have been cheated in a massive way and in the case of Dash the answer is a resounding yes.

There is always inside information of at various times of course, but slowing things down to happen over months, years, or decades means the effect of being in the right place at the right time, either accidentally or more importantly by design, is vastly reduced.

People keep making the correct point that absolute speed of distribution matters, but Dash supporters just don't want to get it. Take Litecoin for example. It had a small instamine because of the fixed-interval difficulty adjustment algorithm that was ubiquitous at the time. but since Litecoin distributes its supply relatively slowly, over years to decades, not hours or days, the effect of that was negligible.

It doesn't even matter (much) whether LTC's instamine was rigged intentionally and grabbed by insiders or an accident and split among many lucky miners, because the relative amount is small, and that is an objective structural fact. As with Dash, distributional outcomes and intentions are not fully knowable, but the resilience and soundness (in the case of Litecoin) or the fragility and unsoundness (in the case of Dash) of the structures are fully knowable and fully known.

And these people could not have foreseen that Xcoin(which Dash was built upon) was going to get any value at all.

That is true for most people. But someone who knew that it had actual development plans would have a far, far better chance to conclude this than people operating in the dark (no pun intended). The only people with this enormous advantage were Evan and people working with Evan.

*awards smoothie Bitcointalk Gold for this post*

Clapping_audience.gif

[smoothie]

Who got the millions of Dash at the early stages? No one knows.

It may be true that no one knows but what we do know is that everything happening so quickly gives enormous structural advantage to those who had highly topical inside information.

As you say, we can't really see the outcome, but we can see the structure, so that's the only way to judge. The salient question is not was it cheated in a massive way, but rather, could it have been cheated in a massive way and in the case of Dash the answer is a resounding yes.

There is always inside information of at various times of course, but slowing things down to happen over months, years, or decades means the effect of being in the right place at the right time, either accidentally or more importantly by design, is vastly reduced.

People keep making the correct point that absolute speed of distribution matters, but Dash supporters just don't want to get it. Take Litecoin for example. It had a small instamine because of the fixed-interval difficulty adjustment algorithm that was ubiquitous at the time. but since Litecoin distributes its supply relatively slowly, over years to decades, not hours or days, the effect of that was negligible.

It doesn't even matter (much) whether LTC's instamine was rigged intentionally and grabbed by insiders or an accident and split among many lucky miners, because the relative amount is small, and that is an objective structural fact. As with Dash, distributional outcomes and intentions are not fully knowable, but the resilience and soundness (in the case of Litecoin) or the fragility and unsoundness (in the case of Dash) of the structures are fully knowable and fully known.

And these people could not have foreseen that Xcoin(which Dash was built upon) was going to get any value at all.

That is true for most people. But someone who knew that it had actual development plans would have a far, far better chance to conclude this than people operating in the dark (no pun intended). The only people with this enormous advantage were Evan and people working with Evan.

*awards smoothie Bitcointalk Gold for this post*

Clapping_audience.gif

Smooth != smoothie

[oaxaca]

AWS and Azure instances are expensive, there is no way someone wastes thousands of dollars...

Nice try.

[smooth]

AWS and Azure instances are expensive, there is no way someone wastes thousands of dollars...

Nice try.

LOL. On the free tier you get almost no hash rate.

[generalizethis]

AWS and Azure instances are expensive, there is no way someone wastes thousands of dollars...

Nice try.

LOL. On the free tier you get almost no hash rate.

Maybe oaxaca can get Satoshi to verify the hashrate for him. 

[TheDasher]

DASH defenders are organizing to defend the scam I see.  All scheming together to find new bag holders.

[PoS]

AWS and Azure instances are expensive, there is no way someone wastes thousands of dollars...

Nice try.

Da heck is wrong with you guys?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573
From this list of nodes, at 8h34 am (4h40 after launch) there were 50 Amazon AWS node and 50 microsoft cloud computing instamining DRK (checked using IP whois service). This is 100/124 nodes using cloud computing to instamine DRK. We are at block 2870 and block reward is 500. From block 1153-1729 block reward is 277. After that it is 500 again hence 2294 block at 500 + 576 at 277 = 1306552 DRK (worth about 13M$ now) were instamined in less than 5 hour by Edufield and coworkers using about 100 cloud mining instances. Edufield himself instamined in not even 5 h from 600K to 1169K DRK ((1306K-600K)*100/124 + 600K) depending how many of the 100 cloud mining instance were its own. All this while having purposefully set the difficult ridiculously low and block reward 100 times what it is now.
 
From 6M$ - 13M$ in 5 h, Edufield did some lucrative work here!

Scamfield is nominee for the Master Scammer award!

At that stage most miners did not even know what algo that thing is running to mine a single coin on a pc.

[smooth]

block reward 100 times what it is now.

200x. The coinbase is 5 DASH but only 2.5 of that is miner reward. The rest goes to masternodes (interest) or to developers (by voting)

[illodin]

Da heck is wrong with you guys?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573
From this list of nodes, at 8h34 am (4h40 after launch) there were 50 Amazon AWS node and 50 microsoft cloud computing instamining DRK (checked using IP whois service). This is 100/124 nodes using cloud computing to instamine DRK. We are at block 2870 and block reward is 500. From block 1153-1729 block reward is 277. After that it is 500 again hence 2294 block at 500 + 576 at 277 = 1306552 DRK (worth about 13M$ now) were instamined in less than 5 hour by Edufield and coworkers using about 100 cloud mining instances. Edufield himself instamined in not even 5 h from 600K to 1169K DRK ((1306K-600K)*100/124 + 600K) depending how many of the 100 cloud mining instance were its own. All this while having purposefully set the difficult ridiculously low and block reward 100 times what it is now.
 
From 6M$ - 13M$ in 5 h, Edufield did some lucrative work here!

Scamfield is nominee for the Master Scammer award!

Do you think only Evan is able to use cloud instances to mine? It was standard to mine CPU coins back then using cloud.

And isn't it funny coincidence there are 124 IPs in that list considering the default for -maxconnections is 125? I had been mining for a good while when that list was posted and my miner's IP is not there. What if he had posted a list that had 8 nodes in it, would you claim there were only 2 miners, evan with 8 and the guy posting the list being the 9th?

At that stage most miners did not even know what algo that thing is running to mine a single coin on a pc.

You don't have to know anything about any algos to be able to type "setgenerate true" into the console.

What's wrong with you?

[generalizethis]

(Think I'll just post this here as well since the troll-heads seem to feel free to spam their endless monologue repeatedly    )

The reality is that Dash is probably the single single biggest contender to adoption after bitcoin and that is why it attracts so much troll-attention from butthurt thumb-twiddlers with nothing better to do such as those found in this thread.

At least scientologist are smart enough to wait before they introduce the crazy. A faulty privacy scheme won't make it past the techs to gain cash status--game over. Without a proper privacy model, you have no chance at the type of fungibility demanded of a cash. Right now you have a speculative asset with a good salesman, that's it. I'd be surprised if it tags along on Bitcoin's next bull run as there are much better options that have been vetted by quality peers.

TLDR: Dash is Donald Trump, you got the spotlight, made some big promises, but now everyone wants to know who can actually win the election.

And did I mention the instamine? 

[funnyman21]

Honestly I think most people understand the DASH scheme already. Only fools would buy or mine a currency where not only the instaminers control a majority of it, they retain that majority by voting with their instamined masternodes to require future mining taxes so high that they generate enough new DASH from the miners to retain their majority.

Like any HYIP the plan will fail once they run out of fools to sell it to. DASH is beyond repair.

Does DASH remind anyone else of this coin?

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114399/one-coin-much-scam-onecoin-exposed-as-global-mlm-ponzi-scheme

[funnyman21]

Yeah, whatever. Same shit, different day, you know your onto something big when you get this much trolling

Dash Electrum - Release - 2.4.1

https://dashtalk.org/threads/dash-electrum-release-v0-2-4-1.6497/

Your troll comments are ironic when you have an article linked in your signature with unsubstantiated rumors. Most of the criticism I have read about DASH on the other hand has been based on fact meant to protect and educate noobs who do not immediately recognize snake oil for what it is.

[smoothie]

Yeah, whatever. Same shit, different day, you know your onto something big when you get this much trolling

Dash Electrum - Release - 2.4.1

https://dashtalk.org/threads/dash-electrum-release-v0-2-4-1.6497/

Your troll comments are ironic when you have an article linked in your signature with unsubstantiated rumors. Most of the criticism I have read about DASH on the other hand has been based on fact meant to protect and educate noobs who do not immediately recognize snake oil for what it is.

Good so you see what many have tried to present when dealing with the topic of dash. The facts.

[smoothie]

XPOST of interest:

The following has been brought to the attention of the DASH core team several times and has been categorically ignored.

Sept 15: Coin's founder begins posting pump/hype statements like "Finally got my money to the exchange" as if inviting the public to take advantage of an opportunity to front-run a bull with insider info.

Sept 16: Coin's founder continues pump/hype with self-serving, faulty TA.

Sept 17: Coin's founder advertises OTC coins for sale, on an ongoing basis, from the coin's official website.  Why he's using market rather than OTC buys (which directly benefit his coin) is not disclosed.

This summary does not mention specific names, to make it clear that such actions would be outrageous no matter the particular coin/dev involved.

The only reason I can think of is that buying on an exchange actually moves the price on a public basis. He gets to "paint" a chart.

If he buys OTC no one sees the buy really except the seller.

[tuapoma]

DASH is not a SCAM!!

BREAKING NEWS - Charlie Shrem answers 14 questions about NEW Dash Pay Card! YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/ui0gaDXKyt0

Charlie Shrem Dash Pay Card Question TimeStamps:

0:43 Why the lack of updates?
3:41 When will the card be available? do you have a date?
5:46 How is your card different to payza's? How do they compare?
7:27 How much will the physical card cost?
10:13 What are the fees? (Annual fee/ATM fee/Foreign Exchange Fee)
11:35 What are the spending and withdrawal limits?
14:03 Do you plan on implementing InstantSend functionality?
17:00 Which countries will the card be available on launch on in the future?
22:07 What is the website URL & when will it be up & running?
23:25 Can you buy and sell Dash on platform as well?
25:31 Why should people use your card and not the competition?
27:51 What are your plans to promote & market the Dash Pay Card?
30:16 Charlie, why Dash? Whats so special about Dash?
33:18 Can you tell me more about the Free card giveaway?

Charlie's Dash Pay Card Proposal - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DASHPAYCARD-DEBIT-CARD

Dash London Conference - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/conf-dash-201708
 

Learn once and for all, there was no pre-mine in Dash!

Dash Instamine Issue Clarification:
Due to a number of questions about the so called Dash "instamine issue", the purpose of this document is to provide an official statement from the Dash team about this matter. Our intention is to provide Dash investors and users with information to help them understand the currency history and technical issues at the beginning of the project and draw their own conclusions on the impact.

Facts about the instamine:
1- There was no pre-mine in Dash
2- ~1.86MM first 24h, ~2.02MM first 48h according to https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/#@inflation
3- That represents approximately 10-15% of the total money supply that will ever be issued
4- This coin issue rate exceeded the published emission schedule by a wide margin

more details here: https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/OC/Dash+Instamine+Issue+Clarification

Advice: the best wallet is the Dash Core v0.12.1.5
Warning: trust only in the DASH[DOT]ORG/WALLETS to choose the best wallet for you.
 

[Dullmartini]

DASH is not a SCAM!!

BREAKING NEWS - Charlie Shrem answers 14 questions about NEW Dash Pay Card! YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/ui0gaDXKyt0

Charlie Shrem Dash Pay Card Question TimeStamps:

0:43 Why the lack of updates?
3:41 When will the card be available? do you have a date?
5:46 How is your card different to payza's? How do they compare?
7:27 How much will the physical card cost?
10:13 What are the fees? (Annual fee/ATM fee/Foreign Exchange Fee)
11:35 What are the spending and withdrawal limits?
14:03 Do you plan on implementing InstantSend functionality?
17:00 Which countries will the card be available on launch on in the future?
22:07 What is the website URL & when will it be up & running?
23:25 Can you buy and sell Dash on platform as well?
25:31 Why should people use your card and not the competition?
27:51 What are your plans to promote & market the Dash Pay Card?
30:16 Charlie, why Dash? Whats so special about Dash?
33:18 Can you tell me more about the Free card giveaway?

Charlie's Dash Pay Card Proposal - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DASHPAYCARD-DEBIT-CARD

Dash London Conference - https://www.dashcentral.org/p/conf-dash-201708
 

Learn once and for all, there was no pre-mine in Dash!

Dash Instamine Issue Clarification:
Due to a number of questions about the so called Dash "instamine issue", the purpose of this document is to provide an official statement from the Dash team about this matter. Our intention is to provide Dash investors and users with information to help them understand the currency history and technical issues at the beginning of the project and draw their own conclusions on the impact.

Facts about the instamine:
1- There was no pre-mine in Dash
2- ~1.86MM first 24h, ~2.02MM first 48h according to https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/#@inflation
3- That represents approximately 10-15% of the total money supply that will ever be issued
4- This coin issue rate exceeded the published emission schedule by a wide margin

more details here: https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/OC/Dash+Instamine+Issue+Clarification

Advice: the best wallet is the Dash Core v0.12.1.5
Warning: trust only in the DASH[DOT]ORG/WALLETS to choose the best wallet for you.
 

Thanks for the link. Curious to see what the end of this month will bring.

[tuapoma]

Dash News Weekly Recap – McGregor vs Mayweather, Blockcypher, Dash Labs & More!

DashForceNews: https://www.dashforcenews.com/dash-news-weekly-recap-mcgregor-vs-mayweather-blockcypher-dash-labs/

YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/BO_GHyHpZEM

[tuapoma]

The average Bitcoin transaction fee ($10.17) is now more than twice the cost of Bitcoin itself ($5) in 2011. Nostalgia and inertia-fueled masochism: Using Bitcoin instead of DASH Digital Cash in 2017. Come on dudes, sub-penny transactions are fun!

great videos:
Dash sponsored Circus City in Bristol UK with Ed Rapley
https://youtu.be/_waMm5qmq9g

Dash Force News 3 Amigos Podcast E24 with Alex Werner from Dash Core: https://youtu.be/KP32FtnD1Q0

cheers

[tuapoma]

The Great American Pilgrimage with Stephen Baldwin & Max Keiser (PROMO)

via YouTube: https://youtu.be/CVPqjKfEgGg

[darkr]

Many of my friends, who bought DASH are happy dealing with this cryptocurrency. It has been growing and gives them profit. One of my buddies even stopped trading for several months to wait when this alt can rise.

[tuapoma]

BTC is dead and split, while BTCxBCH whales fight, the DASH Digital Cash is the best option!

[tuapoma]

Dash Digital Cash Brazilian Community Sponsor the 36 Nacional Arabian Horse Expo in Brazil
YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/wvDokJID2wI

This is a series of interview during the event  in Sao Paulo Brazil about Arabian horses, The Brazilian Community is very  proud To sponsor another athlete, Mauri Fonseca  And the 36 national Arabian horse exposition in Brazil.

This is an interview with Murray Popplewell of Rae-Dawn Arabians His passion for Arabians began the moment he purchased two horses from a nearby breeder in their community of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada, and it has grown far beyond what him and his wife could have ever imagined in those early years. Captivated by the mesmerizing effect this desert breed can have on a person, they continued to acquire more Arabian horses, and Rae-Dawn was born.

[best ever]

The post contains much information. And I love DASH for the following stuff:

- Its each transaction is completely anonymous;

- Mining for DASH requires less energy;

- You can mine this crypto currency on an ordinary computer;

- Several algorithms are used for encryption;

- Any participant in the project can discuss this project.

DASH is a real cool scheme and crypto of the future.

[cobak pole]

because dash is a very potent altcoin and the project is progressing at an international level because that's why the dash can not be said to be a scam.