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Author Topic: Why Dash is not a scam, but a scheme  (Read 7766 times)
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October 25, 2015, 03:50:20 PM
 #41

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

Presenting facts = trolling??

The fact dark was instamined and then had that instamine intentionally magnified is beyond doubt.

So why are there so many threads trying to justify or even deny the fact still being posted even now?

I can only suspect these people are anti-dark/dash.

Best thing for dash/darkers are to confine themselves to their own thread or talk about the tech not try to start more threads defending the distribution.

Evan offered the airdrop and i think he would have gone through with it if not for the pressure from others in the community. I don't think he understood that such a blatant scam would hold back the coin as much as it has and i think he regrets it.  

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October 25, 2015, 03:54:21 PM
 #42

Appearently we have some slow readers tonight who just dont realise there is no denying of Dash's instamine.

Let me re-quote :

Dash Fastmine / Instamine problems in the early days (2014) : The Facts
https://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Quote
In this article, we explore the impact of the “instamine” on the Dash ecosystem. There’s been talk from the very beginning of Dash about the very first 24 hours, 1.9 million coins were issued.
We gained access to Evan Duffield to directly answer some questions about the instamine and give us an account of what happened.

Quote
Q: Did the instamine happen?

Evan Duffield:“The instamine happened, there is no one disputing that fact. The crypto-community at large has no problem with this except a few who think it’s trying to be hidden in some way. In fact, I posted multiple times about the instamine, first in “The Birth Of Darkcoin” which is an account of the first few weeks of the launch and the mistakes that were made. Recently I also posted spoke about the Instamine in the video “Virtual Corporation”, which considers the concept that it might have been key to Dash’s success, which I believe now.


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October 25, 2015, 03:56:23 PM
 #43

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

for his sake i hope he gets paid in BTC .. specially with todays bull-run.

What makes me wonder though, who's paying them? I mean, it's not like the venom they're spewing does their own coin any good, countless folks have said they'd have nothing to do with it after reading their posts so who benefits from their trolling?

i have no idea, its a very strange way to make money .. thats for sure.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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October 25, 2015, 04:00:06 PM
 #44

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

for his sake i hope he gets paid in BTC .. specially with todays bull-run.

What makes me wonder though, who's paying them? I mean, it's not like the venom they're spewing does their own coin any good, countless folks have said they'd have nothing to do with it after reading their posts so who benefits from their trolling?

i have no idea, its a very strange way to make money .. thats for sure.


See that's your problem right there.  You equate everything to money.  Not everyone needs to earn money at any cost like you little McDuffs.  Some people are entertained by exposing scams.  The crypto community needs to cleanse itself of all these deceitful bad actors before great things can be achieved.
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October 25, 2015, 04:01:49 PM
 #45



i just came across it, made me chuckle

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October 25, 2015, 04:06:46 PM
 #46

Evan offered the airdrop and i think he would have gone through with it if not for the pressure from others in the community.

The airdrop was bullshit. As he proposed it was going to pay 2 million coins to an address that he controlled, which he would then distribute as he saw fit. Use your imagination. Read up about how other airdrops like Stellar have turned into massive scams.
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October 25, 2015, 04:15:44 PM
 #47

Evan offered the airdrop and i think he would have gone through with it if not for the pressure from others in the community.
[/ quote]

Cry*p*to developer, the bs is giving someone like Fluffy pony 10% of monero dice while he didn't do any development for 2 years.
You and ur minions hating on Evan because he did things like masternides/instant transactions/ x11...and more. He gets attention with he's inventions and you don't because you didn't do shit.

Stop this hate and do something gur self.





     
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October 25, 2015, 04:18:32 PM
 #48

Evan offered the airdrop and i think he would have gone through with it if not for the pressure from others in the community.


Cry*p*to developer, the bs is giving someone like Fluffy pony 10% of monero dice while he didn't do any development for 2 years.
You and ur minions hating on Evan because he did things like masternides/instant transactions/ x11...and more. He gets attention with he's inventions and you don't because you didn't do shit.

Stop this hate and do something gur self.




Your screen name is so fitting.

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October 25, 2015, 04:19:32 PM
 #49

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

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October 25, 2015, 04:21:55 PM
Last edit: October 25, 2015, 04:49:06 PM by AdamWhite
 #50

Another of the gang here with a complete set of Dash trolling in his post history. What's in it for these guys, devoting all this time to trolling one coin? The goodness of their hearts? Lol, yeah right, they're here for profit.

What's in it for you Stan? Defending the known fraud scheme DASH in every thread imaginable. Are you defending it out of the goodness of your heart?

Still waiting for you to back up those claims you made earlier in the thread. Sounds like you're just a bunch of hot air like the rest of the Dashtards.

You're quickly not only losing the little credibility you had but incriminating yourself by defending and promoting a known fraud scheme. Keep it up!
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October 25, 2015, 04:30:09 PM
 #51

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"



Go invent anything 1st....better yet go solve a soduko game buzzle since u can't code. #GUIWALLET next summer


     
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October 25, 2015, 04:34:13 PM
 #52

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"



Go invent anything 1st....better yet go solve a soduko game buzzle since u can't code. #GUIWALLET next summer

Ahh... You like that eh!!

#REKTMIAMI2016
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October 25, 2015, 04:36:01 PM
 #53

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"



Lets face its, Evan and his very talented team did more then just changing some hash functions last year, lets get over the achievements so far shall we :

Creating and opensourcing Darksend
Creating InstantX
Replacing the referencenode with a decentralised solution
Implementing Bitcoin Core version 0.10 into Dash
Creating an automatic backup system within the Dash wallet
Upgrades to the GUI wallet
Created a decentralised budgetting system
Created a decentralised governance system

One could say Evan and his team were kinda busy this year and last year. To see the activities on Github while enjoying some nice music :

Dash (Darkcoin) Github Visualization 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai5V4Upblog

Dash Github Visualization 2015*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNCm-6GCCSE

* due to Dash forking from Bitcoin you will see not only development on Dash but also on Bitcoin

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October 25, 2015, 04:41:07 PM
 #54

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"



Go invent anything 1st....better yet go solve a soduko game buzzle since u can't code. #GUIWALLET next summer

Ahh... You like that eh!!

#REKTMIAMI2016
Don't tell me XMR developers themselves gonna give flyers there...might be to much giving 5 XMR a day for so many till the after all lol.

P.s I realized I miss quoted 1 page b4 sorry.


     
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October 25, 2015, 04:47:29 PM
 #55

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

Lets face its, Evan and [others] did more then just changing some hash functions

I agree but "Inventor of x11" is in the thread title like it is a major accomplishment. I didn't put it there.

Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil.
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October 25, 2015, 04:51:28 PM
 #56

x11

Yes because changing the number of hash functions is fucking brilliant.

WTG Evan!

"Inventor of x11"

Lets face its, Evan and [others] did more then just changing some hash functions

I agree but "Inventor of x11" is in the thread title like it is a major accomplishment. I didn't put it there.

Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil.



Well you need to understand that Dash has grown a lot in terms of community. No one officially said changing the number of hash functions is technically brilliant but it did serve a very important purpose for us. "Inventor of X11" is just a fact not necessarily a big technical accomplishment. Although I would argue that it was a really smart project management move that does have merit.

Should we have gone with Scrypt which was the popular algorithm at the time or SHA256, ASICS would have dominated the coin too early.  So Evan came up with a solution to allow a more independent and organic growth of the coin and it has been great for us.

That's it, no big deal. There has been hundreds of coins since January 2014 and yet Dash is still here in the top 5 while being a coin that is still minable through GPUs and that is all we wanted from X11.

We will continue to develop and promote Dash to the best of our ability if some people in anonymous forums feel they can do better developing and managing an alternative crypto currency, they can work on their projects and do better. No one is holding anyone back, diversity is good for the space


Edit:

About this,

Quote
"Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil."

I think the issue lies on trying to reduce accomplishments to strictly highly technical stuff and disregarding accomplishments that relate to growing and maintaining a crypto currency project and community. I think that is a major oversight in most projects and a reality everyone will have to deal with so we will just see in time what approaches do better.


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October 25, 2015, 04:54:33 PM
Last edit: October 25, 2015, 05:19:25 PM by AdamWhite
 #57




Are you going to respond to this or will you continue ignoring it? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1220204.0

Edit: He's ignoring it.
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October 25, 2015, 05:09:38 PM
Last edit: October 25, 2015, 05:21:55 PM by smooth
 #58

Well you need to understand that Dash has grown a lot in terms of community. No one officially said changing the number of hash functions is technically brilliant but it did serve a very important purpose for us. "Inventor of X11" is just a fact not necessarily a big technical accomplishment. Although I would argue that it was a really smart project management move that does have merit.

Should we have gone with Scrypt which was the popular algorithm at the time or SHA256, ASICS would have dominated the coin too early.  So Evan came up with a solution to allow a more independent and organic growth of the coin and it has been great for us.

That's it, no big deal. There has been hundreds of coins since January 2014 and yet Dash is still here in the top 5 while being a coin that is still minable through GPUs and that is all we wanted from X11.

The point is there were already chained hash algorithms. On another thread someone posted a chronology. It is disputed whether the other 11-hash variant (with the order of one of the eleven hashes swapped) was before or after Dash, but it is not disputed that there were certainly other chained hash algorithms before x11.

I don't disagree about whether choosing SHA256 or Scrypt would have produced different results, and perhaps using a multi hash was a great decision. That doesn't change the fact that claiming a change to the number of hash algorithms and/or their order as an invention is a huge stretch.

Quote
Quote
"Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil."

I think the issue lies on trying to reduce accomplishments to strictly highly technical stuff and disregarding accomplishments that relate to growing and maintaining a crypto currency project and community.

My comment was in response to a posted list of mostly technical (at least to varying degrees) items. On the separate question of whether growing an maintaining projects and communities is also important you will get no argument from me.

But realistically it is also pretty pointless to build a project and community if the technology is no good. That has to be the foundation or the emperor has no clothes.
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October 25, 2015, 05:17:47 PM
 #59

Well you need to understand that Dash has grown a lot in terms of community. No one officially said changing the number of hash functions is technically brilliant but it did serve a very important purpose for us. "Inventor of X11" is just a fact not necessarily a big technical accomplishment. Although I would argue that it was a really smart project management move that does have merit.

Should we have gone with Scrypt which was the popular algorithm at the time or SHA256, ASICS would have dominated the coin too early.  So Evan came up with a solution to allow a more independent and organic growth of the coin and it has been great for us.

That's it, no big deal. There has been hundreds of coins since January 2014 and yet Dash is still here in the top 5 while being a coin that is still minable through GPUs and that is all we wanted from X11.

The point is there were already multi-hash algorithms. On another thread someone posted a chronology. It is disputed whether the other 11-hash variant (with the order of one of the eleven hashes swapped) was before or after Dash, but it is not disputed that there were certainly other multi-hash algorithms that came before x11.

I don't disagree about whether choosing SHA256 or Scrypt would have produced different results, and perhaps using a multi hash was a great decision. That doesn't change the fact that claiming a change to the number of hash algorithms and/or their order as an invention is a huge stretch.

Quote
Quote
"Opinions differ on which of the other items are worthwhile and which are snake oil."

I think the issue lies on trying to reduce accomplishments to strictly highly technical stuff and disregarding accomplishments that relate to growing and maintaining a crypto currency project and community.

My comment was a response to a posted list of mostly technical (at least to varying degrees) items. On the separate question of whether growing an maintaining projects and communities is also important you will get no argument from me.

Then I think we are on agreement maybe "Invention" is not the best word, but it does say of X11 the particular brand or version of multi-hash algorithm Evan introduced, so that is true.  Maybe a little context is needed, for whatever reason X11 became popular and after a while there were many coins using it and a lot of new users did not know it came from Dash, so at the time that was put there to make that distinction.
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October 26, 2015, 12:40:53 AM
Last edit: October 26, 2015, 01:42:49 PM by dnaleor
 #60

I'm still very surprised to see that people actually believe this instamine was an accident  Huh

I mean, just look at the facts:

2013-12-29: 2 guys from Hawk Financial Group, Evan & Kyle, are asking on the Bitcoin Dev mailing list for "1 or 2 really good C++ programmer that is familiar with the bitcoin internals to help with a for-profit startup". They are planning to build a unique coin that is "not just a clone of the original Bitcoin code" but in stead "a merge-mined altcoin that will provide a very useful service to the whole crypto-coin ecosystem". They claim to have "detailed plans on how to implement it".

2014-01-18 There were some issues at launch, so Evan said he would postpone the launch and would "definitely not" launch it in the next hours. But he did launch it a few hours later.

2014-01-19 Xcoin was launched.
This was the emission in the first 72 hours of the coins existence:

This was the emission of the first 100 days:

At the moment, there are about 6 million DASH in circulation. There would be 84 million Xcoins eventually.
Note that in the first hour, 500k Xcoins were mined. Due to the "quick fix" of the bug, not many people expected to launch a few hours after Evan said he would "definitely not" launch in the next hours.

2014-01-19 Right after the launch, there were problems with the window binaries. Evan clearly was mining right from the start, as he offered 5000 Xcoin as a bounty for compiling the binaries.

2014-01-20 After the emission of almost 2 million coins, Evan said that "now that everything is stable, I'll be posting later about the vision of this project and milestones!". Up until this point, only the "X11 hashing algoritm" was a known feature. According to him, it was "time to move on to actually implementing what I set out to do".

2014-01-22 Evan releases his plans for XCoin. At this point, more than 2 million coins were mined.

---

Later on, some contradictions surfaced:

* The emission schedule changed multiple times. The latest we heard is that the number of coins would be somewhere between 14 million and like 16 million DASH.
* Evan said that this project was just a hobby he started while working on a full time job and coded Xcoin in a weekend.
* Evan claims there were hundreds of miners if not thousands when Xcoin launched. Recent investigation showed that there were 124 IP addreses that were mining at the start. 115 of those addresses where Cloudhosting and Dedicated Servers, 9 of them seem to be private/users.106 of them were at Amazon AWS and Microsoft Azure cloud instances.
 
---

Conclusions:
*Evan isn't acting alone, he had/has a team behind him right from the start. It wasn't a hobby. he had a plan to make a profit.
*Evan had plans for his coin right from the start, but didn't release them until after the instamine
*1.5 million coins were mined in the first 8 hours. Most of these coin ended up in his (and his friends) hands. It's very likely the 500k in the first hour were only mined by him with cloudhosting services.
*He lowered the emission later on, to make his relative share of coins bigger.

Evan was looking for c++ devs for a "for profit startup" at the end of 2013 for the launch of an altcoin.
How can you make a profit by launching an altcoin (and be sure to be able to pay your devs)?
Answer: by premining and/or instamining.
How he did it is pretty easy:
*telling people the release would definitely not be in the next couple of hours and after that do launch it a few hours later
*buggy windows binaries
*a "code error" creating 500k coins in the first hour, >1.5 million in the first 8 hours.

How can this be all an accident and NOT be intentional?

=> DASH was clearly a planned instamine scam.

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