Bitcoins at the British Museum

[casascius]

It would be nice to get it to 10 btc at least for starters & micro donations are cool so as to show them that's possible which none of their other exhibits can do.

The museum might not see it this way.

The museum probably has to comply with accounting laws and report their donations to somebody.

When they put the coin on display, in all likelihood nobody consciously thought "Now that we're displaying a physical bitcoin, we now have a new way to accept donations".  Unless they are going to regularly receive £10,000+ worth of donations through it (unlikely), their cost to properly account for and report on any donations they receive vastly exceeds the value of the donations themselves.

If at any point they discover a semi-significant amount of donations being received through the coin and they feel it threatens the integrity of their accounting, the most logical thing for them to do would be to take the coin down.  The museum isn't going to put up a display showing how the coin is "growing" in value, mostly because it's totally out of the scope of their exhibit, which is "the history of money", not "let's advertise bitcoin".

Needless to say, sending funds to the coin has no possible positive outcome and only one possible negative outcome: it encourages them to take it off display.  So please don't do it.

[Gavin Andresen]

Needless to say, sending funds to the coin has no possible positive outcome and only one possible negative outcome: it encourages them to take it off display.  So please don't do it.

+1 : most organizations won't appreciate getting random bitcoin donations, it is a headache for them to figure out how to handle them properly (and they will get pretty grumpy if they spend a couple hundred dollars worth of staff time to deal with less than that in bitcoin donations).

[TheButterZone]

So, since the coin(s?) has already had donations, there's little choice now but to steal it, cash it out, and donate the GBP equivalent to the museum. Unless they have a contract with casascius to return them at the end of the exhibit...

;-)

[julz]

It would be nice to get it to 10 btc at least for starters & micro donations are cool so as to show them that's possible which none of their other exhibits can do.

The museum might not see it this way.

The museum probably has to comply with accounting laws and report their donations to somebody.

When they put the coin on display, in all likelihood nobody consciously thought "Now that we're displaying a physical bitcoin, we now have a new way to accept donations".  Unless they are going to regularly receive £10,000+ worth of donations through it (unlikely), their cost to properly account for and report on any donations they receive vastly exceeds the value of the donations themselves.

If at any point they discover a semi-significant amount of donations being received through the coin and they feel it threatens the integrity of their accounting, the most logical thing for them to do would be to take the coin down.  The museum isn't going to put up a display showing how the coin is "growing" in value, mostly because it's totally out of the scope of their exhibit, which is "the history of money", not "let's advertise bitcoin".

Needless to say, sending funds to the coin has no possible positive outcome and only one possible negative outcome: it encourages them to take it off display.  So please don't do it.

I don't see why it should be any different to holding a piece of artwork which may appreciate in value.
The additional bitcoin value is not available to the museum directly as the value is entirely within a catalogued item.
It surely doesn't need to be accounted for until the item is disposed of - or perhaps during regular assessment of inventory value for insurance purposes.

[casascius]

I don't see why it should be any different to holding a piece of artwork which may appreciate in value.
The additional bitcoin value is not available to the museum directly as the value is entirely within a catalogued item.
It surely doesn't need to be accounted for until the item is disposed of - or perhaps during regular assessment of inventory value for insurance purposes.

The problem is if they view (or feel that others may view) that they are receiving funds transfers they must account for, and not simple appreciation of an asset that's just sitting there.  Or if they just plain don't know, aren't sure, and decide to take it down just to be safe.

What matters is how they see it, regardless of whether we share their conclusion.

[Otoh]

Needless to say, sending funds to the coin has no possible positive outcome and only one possible negative outcome: it encourages them to take it off display.  So please don't do it.

+1 : most organizations won't appreciate getting random bitcoin donations, it is a headache for them to figure out how to handle them properly (and they will get pretty grumpy if they spend a couple hundred dollars worth of staff time to deal with less than that in bitcoin donations).

It would be nice to get it to 10 btc at least for starters & micro donations are cool so as to show them that's possible which none of their other exhibits can do.

The museum might not see it this way.

The museum probably has to comply with accounting laws and report their donations to somebody.

When they put the coin on display, in all likelihood nobody consciously thought "Now that we're displaying a physical bitcoin, we now have a new way to accept donations".  Unless they are going to regularly receive £10,000+ worth of donations through it (unlikely), their cost to properly account for and report on any donations they receive vastly exceeds the value of the donations themselves.

If at any point they discover a semi-significant amount of donations being received through the coin and they feel it threatens the integrity of their accounting, the most logical thing for them to do would be to take the coin down.  The museum isn't going to put up a display showing how the coin is "growing" in value, mostly because it's totally out of the scope of their exhibit, which is "the history of money", not "let's advertise bitcoin".

Needless to say, sending funds to the coin has no possible positive outcome and only one possible negative outcome: it encourages them to take it off display.  So please don't do it.

I can't believe you guys, they have loads of anon fiat cash bins soliciting donations in any form anyone cares to make all around the museum so why would they have any problem in ppl tipping them via their new groovy little bitcoin - they want to know & show, record & demonstrate how things (money/currency in this case) evolve - it is their purpose, they aren't going to get pissed if what they are displaying does exactly what it is designed to do (ffs) & they won't give a toss what it's value is unless it hits like £10k + so chill out & pump this potential news possibilities up & if they were to pull it then that would be important news too - it's irrevocably in their collection & I doubt they will pussy out about it being on display just because someone sends it a few $ (Satoshis), not that anyone much has as yet anyway.

[niko]

Needless to say, sending funds to the coin has no possible positive outcome and only one possible negative outcome: it encourages them to take it off display.  So please don't do it.

+1 : most organizations won't appreciate getting random bitcoin donations, it is a headache for them to figure out how to handle them properly (and they will get pretty grumpy if they spend a couple hundred dollars worth of staff time to deal with less than that in bitcoin donations).

That's one way to look at it; another perspective is that these are not donations to the museum, but simply acts of individuals that increase the value of the exhibited specimen. A museum displays a painting, and due to external reasons the value of paintings by that author skyrockets.  

[casascius]

I can't believe you guys, they have loads of anon fiat cash bins soliciting donations in any form anyone cares to make all around the museum so why would they have any problem in ppl tipping them via their new groovy little bitcoin - they want to know & show, record & demonstrate how things (money/currency in this case) evolve - it is their purpose, they aren't going to get pissed if what they are displaying does exactly what it is designed to do (ffs) & they won't give a toss what it's value is unless it hits like £10k + so chill out & pump this potential news possibilities up & if they were to pull it then that would be important news too - it's irrevocably in their collection & I doubt they will pussy out about it being on display just because someone sends it a few $.

You don't know that with any level of certainty.  That is your guess.  The problem is there is no upside if you're right, and there is a downside if you're wrong.  As I have said repeatedly, it's not that we think they don't accept donations, it's that it's reasonably possible that they will not be welcoming of this type of donation.

[Otoh]

It is not a donation, see my previous posts, I am adding value to something that they have publicly enabled me to do, it's a part of their collection & is exhibited atm, I am helping to demonstrate just how great this is, I seriously think you are misjudging any possible negative reaction from them in ppl doing this & also that if they were to pull the exhibit of the coins because of this that it wouldn't be a big kudos for bitcoin in them failing to cope with this new tech.

Edit: sry - I'm partying right now, I'll edit for more clarity in 12 hrs, but really I fail to see how btc needs to worry about any imagined sensitivities of the British Museum & anyway at least give them a chance to treat btc sympathetically which I believe they would or at the very least objectively I expect, sending their exhibit some funds is really not likely to piss them off too much in my opinion, you guys seem way too defensive/paranoid or cynical to me atm & anyway this particular Pandora is out of her box now so not much point in trying to make it otherwise.

[casascius]

It is not a donation, see my previous posts,...

That is your opinion, their opinion may differ, and theirs is the one that matters.

I am adding value to something that they have publicly enabled me to do,...

They almost certainly didn't do that on purpose.  If we demonstrate that they did this by accident and that people will start sending them funds through it whether they like it or not, and that causes them any problems, they may very well say "whoops, we didn't think this through clearly" and take it down.

I fail to see how btc needs to worry about any imagined sensitivities of the British Museum & anyway at least give them a chance to treat btc sympathetically which I believe they would or at the very least objectively i expect,

It's not about whether "btc" just needs to worry - most of us just don't want the exhibit taken down.  They are already treating it more than sympathetically by having it up.

sending their exhibit some funds is really not likely to piss them off too much in my opinion, you guys seem way too defensive/paranoid or cynical to me atm.

It's not that it will piss them off, it's they (again) may determine that they must take steps to stay legally kosher when it comes to accounting (something all organizations must do), and if they decide that it's not worth the effort, they will take it down.  It would be no different than if we knew Gary Johnson had a physical bitcoin displayed on his wall: if anonymous people started donating to it, he would take it down and dispose of it, not because donors "piss him off", but because he feels that he must do so to stay in compliance with campaign finance law.

[helloworld]

Randall (XKCD) continued to receive donations even *after* he took down his donation address.

The Equus ferus caballus has already exited the building...

Merely taking the coin down now won't help. They'd need to publicly send it back to Casascius or something.

[Otoh]

It is not a donation, see my previous posts,...

That is your opinion, their opinion may differ, and theirs is the one that matters.

I am adding value to something that they have publicly enabled me to do,...

They almost certainly didn't do that on purpose.  If we demonstrate that they did this by accident and that people will start sending them funds through it whether they like it or not, and that causes them any problems, they may very well say "whoops, we didn't think this through clearly" and take it down.

I fail to see how btc needs to worry about any imagined sensitivities of the British Museum & anyway at least give them a chance to treat btc sympathetically which I believe they would or at the very least objectively i expect,

It's not about whether "btc" just needs to worry - most of us just don't want the exhibit taken down.  They are already treating it more than sympathetically by having it up.

sending their exhibit some funds is really not likely to piss them off too much in my opinion, you guys seem way too defensive/paranoid or cynical to me atm.

It's not that it will piss them off, it's they (again) may determine that they must take steps to stay legally kosher when it comes to accounting (something all organizations must do), and if they decide that it's not worth the effort, they will take it down.  It would be no different than if we knew Gary Johnson had a physical bitcoin displayed on his wall: if anonymous people started donating to it, he would take it down and dispose of it, not because donors "piss him off", but because he feels that he must do so to stay in compliance with campaign finance law.

They encourage & accept cash donations in any fiat or whatever ppl choose to drop in their bins, Krugerrands - Bitcoins whatever, they have no problem with anonymous gifts in any reasonable form... will edit to answer more in 12 hrs ... lol - they won't take the coin off display just because some random ppl have sent it some funds where it's demonstrating to work just as it is meant to, they are interested in representing the reality of the evolution & history of money = this is what it is & does, in real time like never before.

[2GOOD]

I think this is a good way to introduce the currency to new people.
Great story  

[casascius]

they encourage & accept cash donations in any fiat or whatever ppl choose to drop in their bins, Krugerrands - Bitcoins whatever, they have no problem with anonymous gifts in any reasonable form...

That's true in the donation boxes, because if they don't like or can't accept a donation, they can and will dispose of it however they please.

They can and will also dispose of the bitcoin exhibit if they decide they can't accept donations through it and can't otherwise stop them, presumably something we'd like to avoid, right?  I mean, if we didn't care about the exhibit remaining on display, then sure, I'd say donate all you want through it.

lol - they won't take the coin off display just because some random ppl have sent it some funds

Again, you do not know this for a fact.  This is your opinion and your guess, which may differ from their opinion, the only opinion that matters.

[Otoh]

they encourage & accept cash donations in any fiat or whatever ppl choose to drop in their bins, Krugerrands - Bitcoins whatever, they have no problem with anonymous gifts in any reasonable form...

That's true in the donation boxes, because if they don't like or can't accept a donation, they can and will dispose of it however they please.

They can and will also dispose of the bitcoin exhibit if they decide they can't accept donations through it and can't otherwise stop them, presumably something we'd like to avoid, right?  I mean, if we didn't care about the exhibit remaining on display, then sure, I'd say donate all you want through it.

lol - they won't take the coin off display just because some random ppl have sent it some funds

Again, you do not know this for a fact.  This is your opinion and your guess, which may differ from their opinion, the only opinion that matters.

I've had personal dealings with them over a number of years so feel qualified to make such assumptions, np & sure I may be proved wrong about this - I will just ask them directly next week if they have any problem with this.

[paraipan]

they encourage & accept cash donations in any fiat or whatever ppl choose to drop in their bins, Krugerrands - Bitcoins whatever, they have no problem with anonymous gifts in any reasonable form...

That's true in the donation boxes, because if they don't like or can't accept a donation, they can and will dispose of it however they please.

They can and will also dispose of the bitcoin exhibit if they decide they can't accept donations through it and can't otherwise stop them, presumably something we'd like to avoid, right?  I mean, if we didn't care about the exhibit remaining on display, then sure, I'd say donate all you want through it.

lol - they won't take the coin off display just because some random ppl have sent it some funds

Again, you do not know this for a fact.  This is your opinion and your guess, which may differ from their opinion, the only opinion that matters.

If I were from the museum staff, I would put a 7inch display with blockchain's page next to the physical bitcoin so that visitors could see it's value and donations in real time, and maybe donate by scanning the bigger qr code.

Don't worry Cas, no one will remove the coin from there because they are only interested in the physical representation of bitcoin, for display purposes.

[TheButterZone]

Randall (XKCD) continued to receive donations even *after* he took down his donation address.

The Equus ferus caballus has already exited the building...

Merely taking the coin down now won't help. They'd need to publicly send it back to Casascius or something.

Correct Horse Battery Staple? The comic is still out there, plus it's the default key at brainwallet.org, and some transactions have been passing through it and being swept away: http://blockchain.info/address/1JwSSubhmg6iPtRjtyqhUYYH7bZg3Lfy1T

[casascius]

I've had personal dealings with them over a number of years so feel qualified to make such assumptions, np & sure I may be proved wrong about this - I will just ask them directly next week if they have any problem with this.

If they are fine with it, that's cool.  If they ever need to distance themselves from it, they're welcome to have me own it and me "loan" it back to them.

[helloworld]

Randall (XKCD) continued to receive donations even *after* he took down his donation address.

The Equus ferus caballus has already exited the building...

Merely taking the coin down now won't help. They'd need to publicly send it back to Casascius or something.

Correct Horse Battery Staple? The comic is still out there, plus it's the default key at brainwallet.org, and some transactions have been passing through it and being swept away: http://blockchain.info/address/1JwSSubhmg6iPtRjtyqhUYYH7bZg3Lfy1T

I didn't realize that his main donation address was related to Correct Horse Battery Staple. I was just talking about the donation page that he had put up on xkcd.com but which has been subsequently taken down.

[TheButterZone]

Randall (XKCD) continued to receive donations even *after* he took down his donation address.

The Equus ferus caballus has already exited the building...

Merely taking the coin down now won't help. They'd need to publicly send it back to Casascius or something.

Correct Horse Battery Staple? The comic is still out there, plus it's the default key at brainwallet.org, and some transactions have been passing through it and being swept away: http://blockchain.info/address/1JwSSubhmg6iPtRjtyqhUYYH7bZg3Lfy1T

I didn't realize that his main donation address was related to Correct Horse Battery Staple. I was just talking about the donation page that he had put up on xkcd.com but which has been subsequently taken down.

Oh, no. It's not the same one:
http://xkcd.com/bitcoin/