❃❃ ▶▷ BETCOIN.ag ◁◀ ❃❃#Signature Campaign-High Pay, Monthly Bonus, Special Award

[Karartma1]

I personally want to thank roslinpl for having been an excellent campaign manager and he clearly is a recognized great member of the BitcoinTalk community.

Betcoin.ag members are not paid some sort spammers given the names and statuses involved.

If most of the campaigns were run like this one this forum would be completely different.

thank you roslinpl for your contribution, it will be very hard for who'll come next.

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[Roboabhishek]

See....I think that there are just a lot of inexperienced individuals chiming in on this incident.  The point is that the problem was resolved.  The person who had the conflict states that it was resolved.  The question regarding the integrity of the Betsoft software is something that has not had a fully peer reviewed audit, but Bovada is currently running an audit to check for the inconsistencies pointed out by casinolistings.  I have no doubt that if it's proven that Betsoft delivers a dishonest service that their services will be discontinued across the board.  None the less, I don't think it was right to harass our campaign manager to the point of having a nervous breakdown and quitting on us.  Threatening negative trust based on assumptions in an attempt to shutdown honest campaigns and scalp users to competing sites is just wrong.

I know that i am not in this campaign and don't know much about it but as you said Bet soft software is proven Dishonest results its fully true even i heard many Legendary members talking about it.But why Campaign manager is being harassed for the Owner of website. I talked to the him few time and he seems to be polite and doing his job nicely 

[cjmoles]

See....I think that there are just a lot of inexperienced individuals chiming in on this incident.  The point is that the problem was resolved.  The person who had the conflict states that it was resolved.  The question regarding the integrity of the Betsoft software is something that has not had a fully peer reviewed audit, but Bovada is currently running an audit to check for the inconsistencies pointed out by casinolistings.  I have no doubt that if it's proven that Betsoft delivers a dishonest service that their services will be discontinued across the board.  None the less, I don't think it was right to harass our campaign manager to the point of having a nervous breakdown and quitting on us.  Threatening negative trust based on assumptions in an attempt to shutdown honest campaigns and scalp users to competing sites is just wrong.

I know that i am not in this campaign and don't know much about it but as you said Bet soft software is proven Dishonest results its fully true even i heard many Legendary members talking about it.But why Campaign manager is being harassed for the Owner of website. I talked to the him few time and he seems to be polite and doing his job nicely  

I don't know why the campaign manager was tortured.  I can only assume.

And, the last official audit of Betsoft software was in February 2015 (https://www.casinolistings.com/sites/casinolistings.com/files/digital_software_limited_rng_certificate.pdf ); however, there have been inconsistencies detected by casinolistings across sites and Bovada is investigating those concerns.  While I agree that Betsoft's behavior has been extremely suspicious, especially with regards to Jason's jackpot win, and it's wise to avoid Betsoft software until a thorough and official audit is conducted, it is still unclear as to the nature and extent of the problem.

[Mang86]

Can someone please tell me if there is any free spot left? Thank you

[torry28]

Can someone please tell me if there is any free spot left? Thank you

i think atm isn't right time for ask that question, as you can read, betcoin.ag has serious accusations and the current campaign manager will resign after next payment (tehy called it stage 9).

[kotwica666]

I'm not sure if people that make accusations in this thread know what mean service..?

Everyday, you are watching liars in TV with sh*t medicaments, alcohol, gambling and other sh*t, but you do nothing - because you can't.

You are coming here to tell everyone how have to work, or how have to provide services.

Casino is casino - go to official thread! If you want spam - outside service thread - no problem - you can do that. But accusation for doing good job is not fair!

Go on unknown ground and disscuss that. Disturbing work of other people is like throwing garbage in anthill. It make nothing just a lot of work for people who have to do his jobs.

If you want fight go to the source!

Yes, I know that here will be many accusations about providing service for "service been accused" - as i said - go to the source - don't disturb work of external services.

Come here with legit proofs and we will help you in accusation! It is my private word!

[roslinpl]

Just want to put this on record, I removed my Betcoin.ag signature and avatar last night as of July 12, 2016
Thanks Betcoin.ag and roslinpl

Alright, thanks for letting us know.
It's your choice, but I hope you remember our rules and you remember that you won't get paid for your posts from the Stage 9.

@Mang86  Thank you, PM sent.



Best regards.

[cartell0]

https://casino.bitcoin.com also uses Betsoft Games platform. But I doubt anyone complaining about them for not paying progressive jackpot. I have a feeling that the percentage which is not paid to the player is being sent to Betcoin.ag directly.

Betcoin is guilty here. Not Betsoft Games.

Thats some true shit right there and I respect you for that. Nobody will use Betsoft if they are shady in the first place. Betcoin is just trying freaking hard to fabricate the story and blame Betsoft just like that as there is no betsoft support team in this forum. Betcoin is fucked up!

[Betcoin.AG]

We want to thank everyone for their comments both publicly and privately.  We continue to learn a tremendous amount everyday from our great players and the bitcoin talk community.  We continue to receive traffic from sources we never thought possible that ask us questions and try out our services which has been an amazing side effect.  We always say that if you give us a try, you will see the difference and you will enjoy it and that continues to be the case.  Even our most ardent critics spend hours on Betcoin and in our forums which speaks volumes about the experience they are really having and choosing to spend their valuable time. 

Fortunately, most people understand that the Betsoft issue could have happened at any other online casino and our staff worked very hard to make the situation right for the player. 

We apologize for being off topic here in the signature campaign thread but we want our great players and signature campaign members to know everyone in the campaign is locked in so long as you follow the rules and we will add a special prize to the end of this stage for you for your continued support.

Everyone knows Betcoin is not a scam including the several hundred players (and growing) that play there everyday and yes including twitchyseal who spends far more time at Betcoin than any other member or staff.

[Betcoin.AG]

We also want to thank who appropriately updated his trust, but should also add this trust rating for all of the bitcoin casinos with threads on bitcointalk. 

xetsr 150: -0 / +16   2016-07-12   0.00000000   Reference   UPDATED Feedback: I would avoid gambling at this site or any other site running betsoft software.

[TwitchySeal]

We want to thank everyone for their comments both publicly and privately.  We continue to learn a tremendous amount everyday from our great players and the bitcoin talk community.  We continue to receive traffic from sources we never thought possible that ask us questions and try out our services which has been an amazing side effect.  We always say that if you give us a try, you will see the difference and you will enjoy it and that continues to be the case.  Even our most ardent critics spend hours on Betcoin and in our forums which speaks volumes about the experience they are really having and choosing to spend their valuable time.  

Fortunately, most people understand that the Betsoft issue could have happened at any other online casino and our staff worked very hard to make the situation right for the player.  

We apologize for being off topic here in the signature campaign thread but we want our great players and signature campaign members to know everyone in the campaign is locked in so long as you follow the rules and we will add a special prize to the end of this stage for you for your continued support.

Everyone knows Betcoin is not a scam including the several hundred players (and growing) that play there everyday and yes including twitchyseal who spends far more time at Betcoin than any other member or staff.

Betcoin,

Please clarify the following statements you made about the progressive jackpots at Betcoin

Equally, when you are playing a progressive or jackpot, the casino software provider pays these wins out because it is based on the players of all online casinos using their games.  This is what enables a very small casino to pay out a large jackpot, because the software provider pays it out based on their much larger overall player base.  

Are you claiming that the progressive Jackpots at Betcoin are part of a network with other sites?

If so, what other sites can you win the same jackpot as Betcoin?

How long has this been the case?


I asked yesterday also, please respond this time.

Are you claiming that the progressive Jackpots offered by Betcoin have always been shared by all online casinos using their games?  

Any other information you are able to share regarding the terms of the progressive jackpots you offer would be appreciated.

I can't find any details anywhere.

This is surprising since were talking about BTC3,000-BTC4,500 here...

[cjmoles]

And, the last official audit of Betsoft software was in February 2015 (https://www.casinolistings.com/sites/casinolistings.com/files/digital_software_limited_rng_certificate.pdf ); however, there have been inconsistencies detected by casinolistings across sites and Bovada is investigating those concerns.  While I agree that Betsoft's behavior has been extremely suspicious, especially with regards to Jason's jackpot win, and it's wise to avoid Betsoft software until a thorough and official audit is conductedit is still unclear as to the nature and extent of the problem.

How do you know Bovada is still investigating Betsoft?  They added the jackpot value to their slots from another provider, seems likely they are done with Betsoft for good.

Why are you calling the RNG audit  the "official audit of Betsoft software"?  when it clearly had nothing to do with the actual games and includes the following term:

P) Additional information (RGR Part VI, 26.i) The RNG subject to testing (test item J14120011 - I001) was tested independently without any game connected; no integrations between RNG and games were tested.

Did you read the last part of the article?

The RNG can be a correctly programmed piece of logic that always returns a random number, but this says nothing about the fairness of the operation of the games that use the RNG. The audit is practically worthless.

If you want to understand the whole story, read this entire thread, all 3 pages, where a user brought the issue up, and how the owner went about investigating it :https://www.casinolistings.com/forum/gambling/online-casinos/28043/questioning-betsoft-jackpots

Also, before questioning the integrity of the investigation, take a look into the history of CasinoListings.com

I've read the entire casinolisting article.  My point is that there has to a complete and thorough audit before we can blame somebody else for the actions of Betsoft.  There are many, if not most, casinos on this forum which have not gone thru the rigors of applying for and securing a gaming certificate from a regulatory agency whatsoever....The amount of income the Betsoft software generates from bitcoin is minute compared to the income it generates from legitimate currencies.  How can we justify blaming one small bitcoin casino for the actions of a much larger entity of which they have no control?  And why would we?  However, I do agree with casinolisting.com's stance....they do a great service to the gaming community.  Casinlisting.com's concluding paragraph reads:

"Conclusion: avoid Betsoft games
There is a lot of smoke here, and where there is smoke there is usually fire. We have attempted to contact Betsoft about these issues on a number of occasions, but have never received a reply. We think that the best course of action is to make this information public and let players make an informed decision about the games that they play and the casinos that they patronise.

Betsoft is, at a minimum, responsible for gross negligence in its game development and quality assurance processes. These "bugs" and supposedly unwritten rules give us no confidence whatsoever that the games being offered by Betsoft are truly fair, or that they are sufficiently tested, or that the company is adequately regulated. We therefore recommend that players avoid all Betsoft games, and if you are playing at a casino that offers their games, we would urge you to point them to this article and ask them to reconsider whether they wish to continue offering them.

Lastly, we wish to make it clear that we do not believe that Bovada, Slots.lv, or any other casinos running these games, are responsible for these discrepancies. The blame ultimately lies with Betsoft Gaming as they are the ones programming and selling these games. However we do hope that with the publication of this information, casinos will do the responsible thing and remove all Betsoft games until they are adequately tested, audited, and fixed, and until such time as Jason is paid the jackpot that he should have won on The Glam Life slot machine."

(bolded text in final paragraph added by me)

So, while I agree that the evidence against Betsoft is compelling, I don't know what the fiscal impact of discontinuing their services prematurely would mean to a small site such as Betcoin.  I know that much larger sites such as Bovada can absorb the losses; however, for the majority of other sites still using Betsoft's services, the question is much more complicated and should be scrutinized at the managerial level before a decision is finalized due to the possibility of negative fiscal impacts associated with premature actions.

So, as it stands, the conflict with Jason has been settled and what remains is an audit and certificate of compliance from a reputed regulatory gaming authority before conclusive actions can be justified.  But, if requiring certificates of compliance is part of the process, then what does that mean for other bitcoin sites running unregulated code?  Should we also require audit certificates from them?  Therein lies the conflict, when we apply the standards of the regulated fiat based gaming sites to the unregulated nature of the bitcoin economy, then unanswered questions will arise.  Do we hold all bitcoin sites to a fiat based regulatory standard or just competitive sites?  These are some of the questions being worked out here in these discussions and that's why it's important to evaluate the totality of the circumstances before rushing to judgement....

[TwitchySeal]

-snip-

First of all, I'm not accusing Betcoin of intentionally rigging these games.  They are doing what they always do when shit hits the fan; attempt to hide it by smearing it all over their face then ask

"what shit?  we didn't touch any shit? only trolls would talk about the shit on our face right?"

If you want to understand the whole story, read this entire thread, all 3 pages,

I've read the entire casinolisting article.  My point is that there has to a complete and thorough audit before we can blame somebody else for the actions of Betsoft.

Did you read just the article?  If so, you should really read THE THREAD

This is the closest you will get to an objective analysis of the situation.  It's a public discussion, beginning last Sept, you can watch it progress over several months.  Read the entire thread, they find some damning evidence that Betsoft has yet to deny.  I'd be surprised if Betsoft/Betcoin has any of the data CL.com does.  Why would they? 

This "complete and thorough audit" you mention, it's unrealistic.  Look at it this way: In a world without any sort of criminal justice system, Betsoft is being accused of a very serious crime over a long period of time. They have been in hiding for over 2 weeks now.  If they were to come forward tomorrow after weeks of hiding and say "hey, I'm ready for my independent audit, go ahead help yourself, have a look at whatever you want" what would that prove?


Betcoin should be held accountable for every decision they make, including which operators they use or not.  If they choose an operator that refuses to address major issues like this one publicly - that's no them.

The same goes for holding affiliates responsible for choosing which sites to promote or not promote. 

Same thing for signature campaign members and the business they choose to advertise for.  If you choose a site like Betcoin who hides from issues rather than addressing them, you should expect it to cost you in some way. 



How about the keno thing, did you read that thread on 2p2?   (I recommend anyone interested watch this 5 minute video that explains the 2010  Rigged Keno Game Betsoft provided for Absolute Poker)

Remember that scummy cheating site Absolute?  The are the ones who eventually got shut down and didn't pay out their players? 

Let's see how they handled it when Betsoft provided fucked up software:

Dear Ce1skaIMO,

As a valued customer and Keno player at our site, we want to update you on an issue we were made aware of that suggested the Keno game we offered to players was operating in a non-random way.

Our early analysis of this claim stated that there was a flaw specific to the game logic in ‘ten play’ only on Traditional Keno and no confirmed issue with the Random Number Generator (RNG). Upon notice of the flaw, we contacted our third party software provider of Keno, Betsoft Gaming (BSG) for a more comprehensive investigation and subsequently removed all Keno games from our site until the investigation was complete and all corrective actions taken.

Our joint investigations with BSG confirmed that while the RNG for Keno was functioning properly, it was selecting from a pre-existing data set that was not as extensive as it should have been. The results were in turn random, but from a limited data set rather than from the full data set from which RNG is expected to choose.

While the issue stemmed from our third party software provider, we accept responsibility for offering our players a Keno game that had the described issue. Therefore refunds have been issued to all Keno players of ‘five Play’, ’ten Play’ and all Traditional Keno during the period those games were offered . Any net loss you experienced while playing Keno with us, no matter how small has been credited to your account.

We wish to offer our sincere apologies for any confusion or frustration this issue may have caused you, and we thank you for your patience while we have endeavored to correct this situation. We also want to restate our commitment to providing a safe, secure and fair gaming environment for our players.

If you have any questions about your refund, please write to us at casinosupport@absolutepoker.com

Thank you for your understanding, support and continued confidence in our game offerings.

The Absolute Poker Team

That's right guys, Absolute was parters with Betsoft and ended up offering rigged Keno back in 2010.  This is how they handled it:

While the issue stemmed from our third party software provider, we accept responsibility for offering our players a Keno game that had the described issue.

Plus, here is latest email from Bovada:

[Lutpin]

Meanwhile, the Betcoin.AG forum account received 2 more negative feedbacks.

[TwitchySeal]

Yesterday they found out they made the Cardschat July 2016 Blacklist of Sites to Avoid:



They responded by making a post in their own forum:  https://www.betcoin.ag/betcoin-poker-responds-cardschat-absurd-blacklist-designation

At first glance, it appears they want to respond to the cardschat blacklist:



But really, the cardschat thing is just an attempt to distract from the real message:

"I'm not posting on BitcoinTalk anymore, it has nothing to do with Betcoins bad reputation, we just think our players deserve the truth is all"

(they said it twice just in case)

"I'm not posting on BitcoinTalk anymore, it has nothing to do with Betcoins bad reputation, we just think our players deserve the truth is all"

[bobochacha]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1549422.0

Hi I might be new, but i had to create this account and show the Bitcoin community how Betcoin scammed me.

Today i will share with you how Betcoin scammed me
559 chips (Pending winnings from Live Casino)
5988.17 chips (My Wallet Balance)
Total = 6547.17 chips = 6.54717 BTC


Apparently i wagered 559 chips on a live roulette and won. However the casino did not pay me.
I created a ticket and only received a reply that 559 chips will be returned. There after they only returned my wagered amount.
However the ISSUE is they deleted and messed up my account transaction IDs and ripped off 6.54717 BTC from me.

Now they want proof that i did wagered 559 chips. And i do frequent read about scam accusations in bitcointalk about Betcoin.ag but decided to ignore. As such i do not have a screenshot of my wagered transaction ID.

TID: 22332697
06/23/2016 7:31am
559.00 debit (Casino)
ExtID: d412606c-9da4-491a-94d0-b001ed251abc
Arg1: 10152756


The above wagered amount TID was removed from my account. Now, they also removed some of my deposit transactions, thus losing my wallet balance of 5988.17 chips.



Proof that they REMOVED/DELETED part of my transactions can be seen from my CREDIT/DEBIT Transactions as they do not tally.

As Betcoin thinks that I am defrauding them, they decided to close my entire account with my remaining 5988.17 chips and 559 pending chips.

Credit Transactions = 8709.48 chips = 8.70948 BTC (Net Winning Bets + Deposits)
http://imgur.com/wIMTOEr
http://imgur.com/RCIn6ww

Debit Transactions 14697.65 = 14.69765 BTC (Net Loss Bets + Withdrawal)
http://imgur.com/AEtCEIu
http://imgur.com/EZasVlx
http://imgur.com/12EotRT
http://imgur.com/9tQxJt2
http://imgur.com/QNVeuSa

Now the BIG QUESTION is the CREDIT DEBIT DOES NOT TALLY.

There is 5988.17 chips MISSING in the credit part. Betcoin removed my deposited transaction from my account and now I am in a loss. Instead they just inserted random betslips that i did not place.

Okay fine I do not want my 559 chips that i won. Instead give me back what I am supposed to have, MY 5988.17 chips.


Below are the screenshots of my ticket.
https://www.betcoin.ag/ticket/60410

http://imgur.com/mina70F
http://imgur.com/AGsNhS1
http://imgur.com/9e2y62V


Below is a video to prove that the screen shots were not photoshop or some shyt.
https://vid.me/9Ahk

GUYS LET'S BRING SOME JUSTICE TO BETCOIN.AG

[Betcoin.AG]

Meanwhile, the Betcoin.AG forum account received 2 more negative feedbacks.

If the negative trust is from offering Betsoft games, then every single top casino here and on the Internet should have negative trust.  We certainly respect your opinions on the matter and are awaiting a full response from Betsoft on the matter as are the other top casinos online.  Tuesday was our highest trafficked day in quite awhile so we are very thankful for that. 

[Betcoin.AG]

And Today Betcoin Poker was Immediately Removed From that List

UPDATE: CardsChat HAS REMOVED THE AVOID BETCOIN POKER DESIGNATION


https://www.betcoin.ag/betcoin-poker-responds-cardschat-absurd-blacklist-designation

https://www.cardschat.com/blacklisted.php

We also believe and have stated to them that they should remove SWC Poker from the AVOID list, because SWC poker is a group of good guys providing a good option for bitcoin poker. Though our competitor, we have a lot of respect for what they have done and they provide a good option to you which in turn makes us all better.  When Seals began, hardly anybody knew what bitcoin was and now nearly every casino offers some bitcoin payment system.  These guys are the pioneers and should be supported, not torn down.

We are in a very similar position of bitcoin a couple years ago, where some media and pundits spoke negatively of it, but the users that used it understood the value and bitcoin continued to get stronger and stronger.  Wednesday we had one of our highest trafficked days, because people are smart and the claims being made are literally claims you can make about any casino offering Betsoft games, not about not being paid or a withdrawal not going through.  They are about a software provider that every other casino offers and your disagreement with that software provider.  

We can certainly accept that and we like bitcoin will continue to get stronger and stronger and provide more and more value to our great players.  

Join Betcoin today, play with hundreds of players and experience the difference in online gaming. Thank you everyone for your support!

Search CardsChat Blacklist and you get:  https://www.google.com/search?q=cardschat+blacklist&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Yesterday they found out they made the Cardschat July 2016 Blacklist of Sites to Avoid:



They responded by making a post in their own forum:  https://www.betcoin.ag/betcoin-poker-responds-cardschat-absurd-blacklist-designation

At first glance, it appears they want to respond to the cardschat blacklist:



But really, the cardschat thing is just an attempt to distract from the real message:

"I'm not posting on BitcoinTalk anymore, it has nothing to do with Betcoins bad reputation, we just think our players deserve the truth is all"

(they said it twice just in case)

"I'm not posting on BitcoinTalk anymore, it has nothing to do with Betcoins bad reputation, we just think our players deserve the truth is all"

[TwitchySeal]

UPDATE:

• BETCOIN.AG STILL REFUSES TO EXPLAIN TERMS FOR BETWEEN BTC3,000 and BTC4,3000 WORTH OF PROGRESSIVE JACKPOTS
• BETCOIN.AG IGNORES ANOTHER SCAM ACCUSATION
• BETCOIN.AG MYSTERIOUSLY REMOVED FROM CARDSCHAT BLACK LIST WITHOUT EXPLANATION....

[Betcoin.AG]

The terms for the jackpots are the same terms as Bitcasino.io, Cloudbet.com, and every other online casino that uses Betsoft games.  In fact some of these casinos who have been watching this and reached out to us to express their support and have changed parts of their terms to match ours.  

bobochacha was certainly taken care of and wasn't exactly clear on how his transaction history displayed information.

This is our favorite one!  BETCOIN.AG MYSTERIOUSLY REMOVED FROM CARDSCHAT BLACK LIST WITHOUT EXPLANATION -

LOL - Why would you even say this? Mysteriously?  

The people at CardsChat are smart people and can clearly see what is going on.  It took CardsChat, one message and a very short time to go to Betcoin.ag and figure out very quickly that they shouldn't be on any avoid list.  We hope they do the same for SWC Poker.  With our new visitors and traffic sources Thursday was a very solid day at Betcoin.

Our negative trust comes from games 90% of the online casinos have and if that's the case, then nearly every online casino should have negative trust.  Fortunately, people are smarter than that and we get so many messages everyday from people that say I play these games on other sites and people seem to be so passionate about Betcoin that we just had to give you a try.  

Fortunately, people are not stupid and realize the guy who has made over 300 accounts and spends the most time on Betcoin and the most time talking about Betcoin actually really likes Betcoin.  After all, his criticisms and the ones made by some bitcointalk members are ones that could be made against any online casino, every casino has had a "scam" accusation, but we quickly take care of the player and as CardsChat, legitimate operations, people and businesses know Betcoin is a great place to play.  

Here is our explanation in detail:  https://www.betcoin.ag/update-betcoin-poker-removed-cardschat-blacklist-designation