[RELEASED]BitMoney.i2p - Centralized|Const solo POW|Unlimited supply|Instant tx

[z0rg1nc]

hi devs, i have few open questions regarding project design. Thank you for answering and take your time

here: http://sd7asgdgnicjyj6lkaavux77u4vyvhv62pm3dfmluoc4xuivxb4a.b32.i2p.xyz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27

EDIT: for the record, you can post your answers here also.

I think questions and answers deserve to be copied here too.

unlimited supply?

hi devs

i have few open questions regarding current Project design to discuss:
1. What i don't understand is how can unlimited supply be beneficial for this Project to succeed?
*my thoughts: From economical perspective if demand does not meet the offer than the value is doomed to go down, so basicly i will be able to mine the same amount of coins with my pc now and in 10 years from now independent of actual value, demand, interest and independent of how many Hashing power mine at the time. Now exactly opposite makes the Bitcoin so valuable, the more people want's to mine/generate Bitcoin the more difficult it gets to mine/Generate one Bitcoin and thats whats magic is all about. So if you would design algo that way that as more miners compete (bigger Hasrate) than make it more difficult to generate. That way i wouldn't see unlimited supply as a Problem as of my computer that generates approx 1500 BTM/day today would generate 1 BTM/day when thing gets popular and a lot more of people would mine it. It would mean no hyperinflation, fair distribution among miners, and increasing in value.
2. If current design does not change, what incentive does the miner have to keep Producing fresh BTM Unlimited? if the value minimizes that is..

3. Centralized? What happens if your Servers gets hacked or disabled? Whole structure collapses?
let say for example one day BitMoney gets very very popular  and a lot of Services depends on his Infrastructure, what happens if Servers that runs this Payment System gets Hacked, Stolen, Manipulated, Taken Down, Disabled? Would that mean all those Services depending on this Payment system would Stop working?
4. Are you guys trying to make Visa/Bank Kind of payment System? If yes how can it compete, what are pros?



Maybe i am totally wrong and missed some important puzzle parts, that's why i wanted to open this thread to have right Perspective.
Thanks for your answers.
cheers & sry for bad english.

1. Unlimited supply doesn't mean it's free to mine. You spend your electricity and CPU time, it has price. So there is some production cost. Some guys probably has "free" electricity and computers on work or embedded miners in rootkits but it still has some price, smaller than for fair VPS rent but not 0. So when exchange rate crosses that line, some part of the miners drop off eventually. That's how equilibrium price will be found.

Bitcoin has complexity changes for block\hour rate adjustment at first, that's the nature of mine there. Hence BTC, imho, doesn't have manufacturing cost in general (and we still can see it as price *2 in weeks). And i consider deflation as a problem too, money supply should follow economy growth.

We thought to increase complexity a little every month, to make it HYPE a little. It would involve additional people. But as our goal is some real world usage and stability is good there we didn't implement the feature.

2. And you answered 1st question. They will stop at some point if there will be no demand from economy behind.

3. Yes. We'll try to build failover infrastructure but it's still vulnerable in comparison to decentralized systems. So use with cautious.

4. In many ways, let's say there will be opportunities just not possible in VISA. And it's not about criminal.

One note. Please calc not just risks but profit/risk ratio too. We can compete in this area.

P.S. As i can understand you english is not a problem at all. I'm not a native speaker too.

[TripleA]

I have several words to add.

It may seems that in this way BitMoney and investments are incompatible, but it's no so.
The thing is that good investments may be done not in BitMoney, but with BitMoney. Perhaps we'll see an example in not very far future.

The currency is not for buy and hold strategy of course (this strategy may be useful only if BTM is oversold in a moment). But it's no reason to make one more currency with the same properties like complexity growth. Our goals are deeper and we hope that BitMoney users will find a way to use it with benefits in many areas.

[trader19]

hi devs, i have few open questions regarding project design. Thank you for answering and take your time

here: http://sd7asgdgnicjyj6lkaavux77u4vyvhv62pm3dfmluoc4xuivxb4a.b32.i2p.xyz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27

EDIT: for the record, you can post your answers here also.

I think questions and answers deserve to be copied here too.

unlimited supply?

hi devs

i have few open questions regarding current Project design to discuss:
1. What i don't understand is how can unlimited supply be beneficial for this Project to succeed?
*my thoughts: From economical perspective if demand does not meet the offer than the value is doomed to go down, so basicly i will be able to mine the same amount of coins with my pc now and in 10 years from now independent of actual value, demand, interest and independent of how many Hashing power mine at the time. Now exactly opposite makes the Bitcoin so valuable, the more people want's to mine/generate Bitcoin the more difficult it gets to mine/Generate one Bitcoin and thats whats magic is all about. So if you would design algo that way that as more miners compete (bigger Hasrate) than make it more difficult to generate. That way i wouldn't see unlimited supply as a Problem as of my computer that generates approx 1500 BTM/day today would generate 1 BTM/day when thing gets popular and a lot more of people would mine it. It would mean no hyperinflation, fair distribution among miners, and increasing in value.
2. If current design does not change, what incentive does the miner have to keep Producing fresh BTM Unlimited? if the value minimizes that is..

3. Centralized? What happens if your Servers gets hacked or disabled? Whole structure collapses?
let say for example one day BitMoney gets very very popular  and a lot of Services depends on his Infrastructure, what happens if Servers that runs this Payment System gets Hacked, Stolen, Manipulated, Taken Down, Disabled? Would that mean all those Services depending on this Payment system would Stop working?
4. Are you guys trying to make Visa/Bank Kind of payment System? If yes how can it compete, what are pros?



Maybe i am totally wrong and missed some important puzzle parts, that's why i wanted to open this thread to have right Perspective.
Thanks for your answers.
cheers & sry for bad english.

1. Unlimited supply doesn't mean it's free to mine. You spend your electricity and CPU time, it has price. So there is some production cost. Some guys probably has "free" electricity and computers on work or embedded miners in rootkits but it still has some price, smaller than for fair VPS rent but not 0. So when exchange rate crosses that line, some part of the miners drop off eventually. That's how equilibrium price will be found.

Bitcoin has complexity changes for block\hour rate adjustment at first, that's the nature of mine there. Hence BTC, imho, doesn't have manufacturing cost in general (and we still can see it as price *2 in weeks). And i consider deflation as a problem too, money supply should follow economy growth.

We thought to increase complexity a little every month, to make it HYPE a little. It would involve additional people. But as our goal is some real world usage and stability is good there we didn't implement the feature.

2. And you answered 1st question. They will stop at some point if there will be no demand from economy behind.

3. Yes. We'll try to build failover infrastructure but it's still vulnerable in comparison to decentralized systems. So use with cautious.

4. In many ways, let's say there will be opportunities just not possible in VISA. And it's not about criminal.

One note. Please calc not just risks but profit/risk ratio too. We can compete in this area.

P.S. As i can understand you english is not a problem at all. I'm not a native speaker too.

thank you sir for very good answers, i am now getting clearer picture where this project is heading. i must admit i see potential, its unique and you guys took a total different approach in bitcoin/alts scene. imho this is a winner! You already delivered working product now what's missing is live demo of payment system integrated to test and confirm POC. there is a bounty of 8000 BTM for interested parties btw.

[trader19]

I have several words to add.

It may seems that in this way BitMoney and investments are incompatible, but it's no so.
The thing is that good investments may be done not in BitMoney, but with BitMoney. Perhaps we'll see an example in not very far future.

The currency is not for buy and hold strategy of course (this strategy may be useful only if BTM is oversold in a moment). But it's no reason to make one more currency with the same properties like complexity growth. Our goals are deeper and we hope that BitMoney users will find a way to use it with benefits in many areas.

thanks for clearing this up, i had trouble understanding the concept but now its a lot clearer.

[TripleA]

Market maker will be back soon.

By the way we have interesting discussions on our forum, join http://bitmoney.i2p.xyz/forum/index.php

[shojayxt]

When will code be made available?

[z0rg1nc]

When will code be made available?

That's my first target now, github acc already registered. So it will be published as soon as possible.

[trader19]

Market maker will be back soon.

By the way we have interesting discussions on our forum, join http://bitmoney.i2p.xyz/forum/index.php

use those tokens to register for free 

Code:

3_62+ACMulcchyFOOkCAXR97XqsHSQyWsP4HMxlO57UBs=
3_YPvH7hniKeyHbdtXkEKuWQQjsP4fuzQZ1jsi8IQjqvQ=
3_+ICzlYSMiKxb3mE4lLBdaAsDygdqq1+M1CWGYBXtQ5I=
3_jJbJ9HNa6SNX8qwFVaumhKuRfmJ3J8mFV9QmXg7qxSo=
3_HbpmYSKjmb+PpNOreg+XPcrduh+Wo3h9mZa5KxZqWMQ=
3_CfPS8oOfeSyqEGLnV/lhfibixN4RPAQNr+uGEiJ3LRg=

[hepilord]

How to make a copy (backup) of wallet?

[TripleA]

How to make a copy (backup) of wallet?

It's easy enough, you can make and save archive with your client.

[z0rg1nc]

How to make a copy (backup) of wallet?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13017201#msg13017201

[z0rg1nc]

Integration reward up, now 12000BTM total. Free idea - redeemed payment token service http://bitmoney.i2p.xyz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32

[trader19]

to support you guys i made a little signature   hope u like it. ideas are welcome..

Code:

[center]
[b]something totally different than you used to?[/b]
[color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.0]Thread[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=http://bitmoney.i2p.xyz/forum/index.php]i2pForum[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Free registration: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13050993#msg13050993]Token[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bounty: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13092639#msg13092639][b]111oooBTM[/b][/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Manual: [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4isxriwoduvlsm/BitMoneyManual20151108.zip?dl=0]Download[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Source: [url=https://github.com/z0rg1nc/]GitHub[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]
[/center]

[zhorzh]

How can I cancel an order that is not visible in the "Depth of market" list ?

[z0rg1nc]

How can I cancel an order that is not visible in the "Depth of market" list ?

From 'Exchange' ->'Orders' Window.

[z0rg1nc]

to support you guys i made a little signature   hope u like it. ideas are welcome..

Code:

[center]
[b]something totally different than you use to?[/b]
[color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.0]Thread[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=http://bitmoney.i2p.xyz/forum/index.php]i2pForum[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Free registration: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13050993#msg13050993]Token[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bounty: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13060313#msg13060313]12000BTM[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Manual: [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4isxriwoduvlsm/BitMoneyManual20151108.zip?dl=0]Download[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]
[/center]

Looks very nice. But probably "you useD to"?

[trader19]

to support you guys i made a little signature   hope u like it. ideas are welcome..

Code:

[center]
[b]something totally different than you used to?[/b]
[color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.0]Thread[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=http://bitmoney.i2p.xyz/forum/index.php]i2pForum[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Free registration: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13050993#msg13050993]Token[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bounty: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13060313#msg13060313]12000BTM[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Manual: [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4isxriwoduvlsm/BitMoneyManual20151108.zip?dl=0]Download[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]
[/center]

Looks very nice. But probably "you useD to"?

thanks, corrected typo. ideas are welcome 

[TripleA]

to support you guys i made a little signature   hope u like it. ideas are welcome..

Code:

[center]
[b]something totally different than you used to?[/b]
[color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.0]Thread[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=http://bitmoney.i2p.xyz/forum/index.php]i2pForum[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Free registration: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13050993#msg13050993]Token[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bounty: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13060313#msg13060313]12000BTM[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Manual: [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4isxriwoduvlsm/BitMoneyManual20151108.zip?dl=0]Download[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]
[/center]

It's really nice, thank you. I take it
We think about signature campaign after the next large update, but it's already a good time for some PR More testers and feedback are exactly what we need.

[trader19]

to support you guys i made a little signature   hope u like it. ideas are welcome..

Code:

[center]
[b]something totally different than you used to?[/b]
[color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.0]Thread[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bitmoney.i2p: [url=http://bitmoney.i2p.xyz/forum/index.php]i2pForum[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Free registration: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13050993#msg13050993]Token[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Bounty: [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1241229.msg13060313#msg13060313]12000BTM[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]Manual: [url=https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4isxriwoduvlsm/BitMoneyManual20151108.zip?dl=0]Download[/url][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color][color=orange]◥[/color][color=blue]◣[/color]
[/center]

It's really nice, thank you. I take it
We think about signature campaign after the next large update, but it's already a good time for some PR More testers and feedback are exactly what we need.

you can do a Logo campaign  
edit: i will add some funds to pot when time comes.

[TripleA]

Ah, my rank is too low, I can't use long signatures yet. So, I'll join later.
Well, then now all depends on you Thanks for your support.

I think we'll discuss campaign type late, if you have any knowledges or ideas about such campaigns, feel free to share them on our forum.
But first we shall do some interesting things, that may really hold "mass user" attention. Having them, we can hope to achieve good results with promotion campaigns. 

Though feedback from active testers like you is needed already now, and it is really important.