BW.com B12 Hash Investment

[RichBC]

B12 Price drop to .45 BTC/THS and just a little over 2 weeks away from preorder stage ending.  I already got a good bit, but wondering if I feel like adding some B12 investment.  It really comes down to how fast they can pay back the principal in stage 2 before receiving the split income with BW in stage 3. 

Pay back seems very highly likely, but profit is another big question by the time we are splitting profits.

I had held off buying more B12, waiting for the price to go down, until a couple of days ago when I decided it was not going to happen.... 

I feel "safe" with the investment and my concern was when will they get them online? That is now compounded by 0.26J/GH not looking as good as it was a Month ago. However I think the biggest risk is a big pull back in the exchange rate?

However despite all that still feeling fairly happy as a home for my mined BTC and expect to continue buying.

Will also be very interesting to see how they price the B-Eleven when it goes up for sale?


Rich

[wlefever]

Lowered the price to .42 BTC/THS but do we have any update on status of the miners?  I wish they had a thread to discuss with someone from their team to make a decision on more hash, or not.

Edit:  I went ahead and sent them an email to see if they are willing to give a status on anything.

[RichBC]

I have seen no further updates on the miner, and their response to my email suggesting they make updates for investors was less than useful.

I have got to the point that I do not now expect to make money on this, because of the way the Difficulty is going,  but equally I don't expect to loose either.

Rich

[wlefever]

To my surprise they actually responded with an udpate on selling physical miners since they have finished R&D.  They are planning on the end of January 2016 to early February 2016 which must mean cloud hashing to launch Jan 1 should still be in order!

Still nothing solid sice we haven't seen a working miner, but non the less a starting point.

Edit:  Also B12 cloud hashing has reached 5000T.

[RichBC]

Edit:  Also B12 cloud hashing has reached 5000T.

Yes not al all sure what happened here? User xd***uhm made 6 purchases on the 24th over a period of 12 Hours with size varying from 3.19T to 238.14T

Very strange purchasing pattern and amounts to over BTC500.

Rich

[wlefever]

Edit:  Also B12 cloud hashing has reached 5000T.

Yes not al all sure what happened here? User xd***uhm made 6 purchases on the 24th over a period of 12 Hours with size varying from 3.19T to 238.14T

Very strange purchasing pattern and amounts to over BTC500.

Rich

Support claimed a "user" purchased the remaining B12 hash.  But, if you look at the final purchase on B11 it looks like a company representative bought the remaining shares, so it makes me think they just funded the rest themselves.

They even mentioned the posibility of a B13 but I don't understand why at this point other then needing more coin to increase production.

[RichBC]

Support claimed a "user" purchased the remaining B12 hash.  But, if you look at the final purchase on B11 it looks like a company representative bought the remaining shares, so it makes me think they just funded the rest themselves.

They even mentioned the posibility of a B13 but I don't understand why at this point other then needing more coin to increase production.

Yes I think what happened on B11 was that they had opened the Market after they were half sold and people were trading, then they released the second half , but people were constantly undercutting the BW sales block. It was also at a time when BTC was strengthening and they then tried reducing the price of their block. I think in the end they just bought back the lot and opened B12 and got back in control.


What is odd about the final sales of B12 is the piecemeal way in which the remaining shares were taken up?

Where are the words on the customer buy of B12 & possibility of B13?



Rich

[wlefever]

I sent them an email about a physical miner update and also asked if the B12 sales were still open (since it still says open even though 5000T has bee sold) or if it were best to wait for information to be released on the physical miner. 

[RichBC]

I see that BW has made a few interesting statements on the Start of Mining for the Hash Investments.

1.The projected settlement day
　　The projected settlement day is on Jan.1st, 2016, But the actual settlement day would be influenced by the suppliers, especially the SOC supplier, Samsung. According to our communication with Samsung and the progress of our production, the settlement day is within our control. 　

I think they are saying here that availability of ASIC's from Samsung is not the limiting factor?

4.The actual settlement day
　　For B11 investors who invested during the period from Aug. 20th ,2015 to Aug. 27th , 2015, if they haven’t sell their cloud hash in the secondary market on Jan.31th, 2016, they will enter the first stage on Feb.11th, 2016.
　　For B11 investors who invested after Aug. 27th, 2015, they will enter the the first stage on Feb. 21th, 2016.
　　For B12 investors, they will enter the first stage on Mar.1th, 2016.
　　If there is a delay for the guaranteed settlement day, BW undertake all the loss and pay the income to investors on time.

So looks like they are planning a phased start to mining with the earlier purchasers of B11 at the End Of January, running through to March 1st for B12.

Full text here.

https://www.bw.com/news/show-54-proclamation


Rich

[wlefever]

That is confusing to me because they now state the first stage will have phased starts, but B11 and B12 are already in Stage 1 here:  https://www.bw.com/cn/b12/code_en.html

Stage 1:The pre-order stage is expected to end on January 1st, 2016. Investors will receive a fixed daily interest of 0.00022 BTC per terahash, during the pre-order stage. This daily interest will last until the miners are activated on Jan 1st, 2016, in the event of any delays BW will immediately update users on the BW website.

Basically it sounds like Stage 2 (when miners are activated and payment towards principal starts without electricity costs or fees) has been delayed slightly to Feb 11, 2016, Feb 21, 2016, and March 1,2016.  So it seems we will make profit on the small interest amounts and our principals back but with the difficulty moving up like it is I am not banking on making any profit in Stage 3:

Stage 3:After returning all invested terahash value to the investor the mining net income will be split 50/50 between the investor and BW. The investor will also now be charged a maintenance fee of 0.5 CNY/ KW*H, which includes the electricity fee.

BW will distribute the income to the investors based on the actual output of the B12 miners.

[RichBC]

Yes agreed it is confusing I think you are right and they are referring to Stage 2 / what they are now calling settlement day. Perhaps it lost something in the translation? 

BTW do you think the interest payments count towards the Return of the Principal or are in addition to it?

Rich

[wlefever]

Yes agreed it is confusing I think you are right and they are referring to Stage 2 / what they are now calling settlement day. Perhaps it lost something in the translation? 

BTW do you think the interest payments count towards the Return of the Principal or are in addition to it?

Rich

It does not count toward return on principal so that is a good thing.

2.Distributing interest in pre-order stage
　　BW will distribute the interest to users until the actual settlement day.The interest accrued during the pre-order stage is not added to the original principal.

　

[RichBC]

Missed that, but good news. Had assumed up until now that they would regard the interest as part of the returned principal. 

Rich

[RichBC]

Secondary Market for B12 now open, not much trading.

Rich

[wlefever]

So I am starting to wonder how you determine which period th B11 hash was purchased when you are buying on the market.  It only makes a difference of about 10 days for entering the mining stage or does it only pertain to the original contact buyer? 

So confusing really.  Because in theory the only person who would get paid back principal without any fees would be the original contract buyer not someone who purchased on the secondary market, right?  Also, does that means if you buy on the market you split profits 50/50 with BW as soon as you purchase or do you get only interest until the next stage starts?   

[RichBC]

Yes I am far from certain they have thought that through. All of my B11 purchases were made after the Aug-27 date, but some were from the secondary market.  and may have been originally purchased before the date. My guess would be that it will be from when you purchased them?

I am assuming that regardless of when or how they were purchased you will be entitled to the return of the Principal, but that may be wishful thinking? Again on the 50/50 I am assuming that the stages apply regardless to if you were the original purchaser or a secondary purchaser. What is clear is that they have not made things very clear... 

It would have been nice if there was a statement to the effect that all rights pass from the original investor to the new investor. I still feel / hope that this will be the case.


Rich

[wlefever]

Yes I am far from certain they have thought that through. All of my B11 purchases were made after the Aug-27 date, but some were from the secondary market.  and may have been originally purchased before the date. My guess would be that it will be from when you purchased them?

I am assuming that regardless of when or how they were purchased you will be entitled to the return of the Principal, but that may be wishful thinking? Again on the 50/50 I am assuming that the stages apply regardless to if you were the original purchaser or a secondary purchaser. What is clear is that they have not made things very clear... 

It would have been nice if there was a statement to the effect that all rights pass from the original investor to the new investor. I still feel / hope that this will be the case.


Rich

Haha this is correct "What is clear is that they have not made things very clear...  ".  If they pay back principal in full even if you purchased on the secondary market then the B11 is looking more attractive than B12 because it should be paid back at least a month in advance.  And I assume B11 purchased on the market still earn interest (000312BTC/THS/DAY) until the listed dates for next stage?

[RichBC]

Yes that part is clear and the payments I have been having on all the investments B11 Primary / Secondary & B12 Primary have been correct. I am expecting them all to continue until the Miner is hashing and paying back what it earns. Also the B11 pays a higher interest than B12.

Rich

[RichBC]

Latest announcement / Update on B11 / B12 Hash Investment on the Website, not yet translated, here is Google Translate, but I can't make much sense of it?

Dear credits network users:

Credits cloud network operator first Operators force will force B11 February 11, 2016 settlement, qualified users get cloud Operators force mining revenue; other B11 cloud Operators force on February 21 delivery; B12 cloud operator in force 3 January delivery. Users enjoy priority to purchase the first batch of mining income, other preferential schemes will be announced in due course in the years after.

Given B11 during the first delivery date is considered force the Spring Festival holidays, the proceeds paid Details are as follows:

1, cloud calculate earnings power line on February 11 were issued for the purchase of the first batch of 2015 between August 20 to August 27. In the purchase history page https://www.bw.com/beleven prevail.

2, February 11 to 20 during the day issuing mining revenue is calculated based on the minimum initial purchase power operator, at 0:00 on January 31 held operator force, held the day count to zero force. Operators holding force is higher than for later delivery will be considered part of the force February 21.

3, B11 cloud operators force the first distribution of mining revenue cloud Operators force time February 18, the second release time February 29, after the issuance of mining Forwards weekly earnings.

4, the deadline for payment of financial income: B11 The first February 10, the other 20 February, B12 is February 29.

5, before the time of issuance and conditions as above to obtain the cloud operators force mining income, financial income paid as usual.
Matters not covered in the section "financial cloud operator force B11, B12 supplement."

  Happy new year.

However I think it confirms they are on track to start Mining on the Dates previously given? (Post #29 above)


Rich

[RichBC]

BW now have a translation of the Settlement Announcement on the website.

Announcement for the settlement of BW cloud hash power

2016-02-05 10:01:00
Dear all:

The settlement day for our first group of hash investors will be on Feb. 11th , 2016.
For B11 investors who invested during the period from Aug. 20th ,2015 to Aug. 27th , 2015, if they haven’t sold their hash in the hash market after Jan.31th, 2016, they will begin to receive income from Feb.11th, 2016.

For B11 investors who invested after Aug. 27th, 2015, they will begin to receive income from Feb. 21th, 2016.
For B12 investors, they will begin to receive income from Mar.1th, 2016.

Because the settlement day for the first batch will arrive during Chinese new year, the detailed information of income distribution is as follows:

1.For B11 investors who invested during the period from Aug. 20th ,2015 to Aug. 27th, if they haven’t sold their cloud hash in the hash market after Jan.31th, 2016, they will begin to receive income from Feb.11th, 2016, which is based on the purchase records on our website, https://www.bw.com/beleven

2.The income distributed during the period from Aug. 20th ,2015 to Aug. 27th is computed based on the minimum hash power of the three, the first batch of the cloud hash purchased by users, the cloud hash holded by users at 00:00 Jan.31th, 2016 and the cloud hash holded by users at 00:00 on these days from Aug. 20th ,2015 to Aug. 27th.
If the cloud hash holded by the users is higher that that they had purchased, for the part of higher, the settlement day will be on Feb. 21th, 2016.

3.initial mining income of B11 will be distributed on Feb. 18th, 2016. The second time will be on Feb. 29th, 2016. Then the following income will be distributed weekly.

4.The closing day for the interest :

We will stop paying interest to the first batch of B11 users since Feb.11th, 2016.
For the other B11 users, we will stop paying interest since Feb.21th, 2016.
For B12 users, we will stop paying interest since Feb.29th, 2016

5.All above is the income distribution time and detailed information. Before the distribution of the mining income, we will continue to pay users with interest.

Happy new year!

So confirmation that they are on track to start payments to the early B11 investors after CNY. My B11 are from the second phase so payments start Feb 21, will be interesting to see exactly what the payments are.

However as these dates are close I think this confirms that the big ramp in BW hash over the last Month has been B11 miners coming on line. I wonder when we will see propper pictures and specs and when they will start sales of miners?

Rich