IOTA Crowdsale

[rdanneskjoldr]

Scarcity is one of the variables to analyze when trying to find economic value. With 999.999.999 its easier to be scarce according with its potential use, than if there are 999.999.999.999.999.999

42Coin that is 500000 times more scarce than Bitcoin has a much smaller marketcap. Your hypothesis seems to not work as intended.

But it has different value, so there isnt any relation, and you cant compare scarcity or marketcap between them.

By transfering 0.000000001 IOTAs, will you be able to fully use all of its features? With the maximum amount of data possible in a transaction (Or the same max data as transferring 1 IOTA)?

If im wrong, you can just say im wrong instead of answering "Maybe." and ill stop wasting your valuable time.

In nxt and btc, fees are an important variable to determine its value. Here there aren't any fees.

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[Krypt]

If 1 iota = 0.000000001 iota in usefullness

This is the source of your misunderstanding. The value of 1 IOTA is 100000000 times more than 0.000000001 IOTA value. And there are no other "features" in IOTA besides micropayments.

[Come-from-Beyond]

But it has different value, so there isnt any relation, and you cant compare scarcity or marketcap between them.

By transfering 0.000000001 IOTAs, will you be able to fully use all of its features? With the maximum amount of data possible in a transaction (Or the same max data as transferring 1 IOTA)?

If im wrong, you can just say im wrong instead of answering "Maybe." and ill stop wasting your valuable time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_split hints that scarcity of tokens doesn't affect marketcap.

Yes, 10^-9 IOTA has the same features as 1 IOTA.

[rdanneskjoldr]

If 1 iota = 0.000000001 iota in usefullness

This is the source of your misunderstanding. The value of 1 IOTA is 100000000 times more than 0.000000001 IOTA value. And there are no other "features" in IOTA besides micropayments.

I dont see why
"The value of 1 IOTA is 100000000 times more than 0.000000001 IOTA value."

when

"Yes, 10^-9 IOTA has the same features as 1 IOTA."

I wouldnt pay 1.000.000 € for something that i can get or do for 1 €

Can i send the same amount of data with 10^-9 IOTA than with 1 IOTA in one transaction?

In nxt with 10^-3 nxt you cant even send one message or buy an asset or transfer any money. So i clearly see why 1 nxt is more valuable than 10^-8 nxt

In bitcoin it can happen you may not be able to make a transaction with 10^-6 btc. So also 1 btc >>> 10^-6 btc

[Come-from-Beyond]

Can i send the same amount of data with 10^-9 IOTA than with 1 IOTA in one transaction?

Yes, both transactions will be represented with the same number of bytes. Though I think you were going to ask something else but you can't find good wording because clearly don't understand difference between data and information.

[rdanneskjoldr]

Can i send the same amount of data with 10^-9 IOTA than with 1 IOTA in one transaction?

Yes, both transactions will be represented with the same number of bytes. Though I think you were going to ask something else but you can't find good wording because clearly don't understand difference between data and information.

I said in my first question im a noob(+ non-tech and english is not my first language.)
 
Im just trying to understand why 1 iota is more valuable than 10^-9 iota. Which seems obvious in other cryptos, but i cant find the reason here, in order to decide if i invest and how much. I have a decent share of JINN, and ill probably invest something here, but it will be much less if i dont find these answers.

Thank you for trying to answer my concerns.

[Krypt]

In nxt with 10^-3 nxt you cant even send one message or buy an asset or

But there are no other "features" in IOTA besides micropayments. Your device can only transfer IOTAs to another device.

I wouldnt pay 1.000.000 € for something that i can get or do for 1 €

But you can't pay 0.0000001 IOTA for something (e.g. electricity) that costs 1 IOTA.

[rdanneskjoldr]

I wouldnt pay 1.000.000 € for something that i can get or do for 1 €

But you can't pay 0.0000001 IOTA for something (e.g. electricity) that costs 1 IOTA.

No one will pay 1 IOTA for something whose real value is a billion times less, so market will make that price go down to an amount someone is willing to pay.

[Come-from-Beyond]

No one will pay 1 IOTA for something whose real value is a billion times less, so market will make that price go down to an amount someone is willing to pay.

It's a sophism. Of course, the first half of the sentence is correct, but what if market decides that even 1 IOTA is not a fair exchange for a cup of coffee?

[Seccour]

I wouldnt pay 1.000.000 € for something that i can get or do for 1 €

But you can't pay 0.0000001 IOTA for something (e.g. electricity) that costs 1 IOTA.

No one will pay 1 IOTA for something whose real value is a billion times less, so market will make that price go down to an amount someone is willing to pay.

IOTA can be used for a lot of things like micro-payments :

If 1 IOTA is worth 1 € and a cup of tea worth 1.5€ do you think the merchant will accept you to pay 0.00000001 IOTA ? No. He will accept only 1.5 IOTA as a payment.

[rdanneskjoldr]

I wouldnt pay 1.000.000 € for something that i can get or do for 1 €

But you can't pay 0.0000001 IOTA for something (e.g. electricity) that costs 1 IOTA.

No one will pay 1 IOTA for something whose real value is a billion times less, so market will make that price go down to an amount someone is willing to pay.

IOTA can be used for a lot of things like micro-payments :

If 1 IOTA is worth 1 € and a cup of tea worth 1.5€ do you think the merchant will accept you to pay 0.00000001 IOTA ? No. He will accept only 1.5 IOTA as a payment.

Im not arguing that, its obvious.

For the market to value a IOTA on 1.5€, it needs to have that value. And im saying that if technically 10^-9 IOTA does absolutely everything you can do with 1 IOTA, the value of 1 IOTA will dilute.

[Come-from-Beyond]

And im saying that if technically 10^-9 IOTA does absolutely everything you can do with 1 IOTA, the value of 1 IOTA will dilute.

3 years ago it was possible to send 1 satoshi. 1 BTC was worth 30+ USD those days.

[LiQio]

I wouldnt pay 1.000.000 € for something that i can get or do for 1 €

But you can't pay 0.0000001 IOTA for something (e.g. electricity) that costs 1 IOTA.

No one will pay 1 IOTA for something whose real value is a billion times less, so market will make that price go down to an amount someone is willing to pay.

IOTA can be used for a lot of things like micro-payments :

If 1 IOTA is worth 1 € and a cup of tea worth 1.5€ do you think the merchant will accept you to pay 0.00000001 IOTA ? No. He will accept only 1.5 IOTA as a payment.

Im not arguing that, its obvious.

For the market to value a IOTA on 1.5€, it needs to have that value. And im saying that if technically 10^-9 IOTA does absolutely everything you can do with 1 IOTA, the value of 1 IOTA will dilute.

What is the technical difference between a 1 cent payment and a 1 billion USD payment?
Technically they would do the same as well, wouldn't they?

[Krypt]

And im saying that if technically 10^-9 IOTA does absolutely everything you can do with 1 IOTA

Finally I get it. "rdanneskjoldr" is the iotatoken's marketing project for upping this thread constantly 

[rdanneskjoldr]

What is the technical difference between a 1 cent payment and a 1 billion USD payment?
Technically they would do the same as well, wouldn't they?

Lets say you want to use a IOTA feature (like you can create a nxt asset for 1000 nxt), which will require you 1 IOTA. And the ICO has 1000 equal in % users. Each has 1M IOTAs

You have 1000 users from whom you can buy . And 1 IOTAs would be 0.0001% of their share. That creates an offer and demand.
If the market determines 1 IOTA is worth 1 $, those persons would be willing to sacrifice that 0.0001% of their share for 1 $.

If for your purpose you can do what you need with 10^-9 IOTAs, you only need to buy 0.0000000000001% of the share of one of those persons. That is a different offer and demand situation in which the prize of 1 IOTA would be much less. Im sure any of those initial investors would love to sell 0.000000000001% of their share for 1$ cent


In Nxt, with 10^9 coins in existence, you need 1/ 10^9 of those to be able to make a transaction.

While in IOTA with 10^9 coins in existence, you need 1/10^18 to make it.

This creates the scarcity of coins you need to use the network, which is limited (less limited in IOTA).
That is the illussion im referring to when estimating the market cap users will give to IOTA.

[LiQio]

What is the technical difference between a 1 cent payment and a 1 billion USD payment?
Technically they would do the same as well, wouldn't they?

Lets say you want to use a IOTA feature (like you can create a nxt asset for 1000 nxt), which will require you 1 IOTA. And the ICO has 1000 equal in % users. Each has 1M IOTAs

You have 1000 users from whom you can buy . And 1 IOTAs would be 0.0001% of their share. That creates an offer and demand.
If the market determines 1 IOTA is worth 1 $, those persons would be willing to sacrifice that 0.0001% of their share for 1 $.

If for your purpose you can do what you need with 10^-9 IOTAs, you only need to buy 0.0000000000001% of the share of one of those persons. That is a different offer and demand situation in which the prize of 1 IOTA would be much less. Im sure any of those initial investors would love to sell 0.000000000001% of their share for 1$ cent

Yes, without crunching your numbers, this seems a reasonable behavior of the market participants.

In Nxt, with 10^9 coins in existence, you need 1/ 10^9 of those to be able to make a transaction.

While in IOTA with 10^9 coins in existence, you need 1/10^18 to make it.

This creates the scarcity of coins you need to use the network, which is limited.

That is the illussion im referring to when estimating the market cap users will give to IOTA.

But the question here is, why would the price only be reflected by the cost of a transaction.
If you can move something around at no transaction cost, would it be "worthless"?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Maybe he was trolling, but i think this is quite a serious thread to troll.

Even CFB is telling maybe 1 IOTA could handle all the transactions done in the whole network in the first years!!!!
Does no one see why this makes 1 IOTA less valuable economically if you can buy it from hundreds of millions of persons!?!?!?

No miners and no fees,no? So maybe with 1 IOTA it would be more than enough to handle all transactions worldwide in the first years.

1 IOTA would offer ~1.000.000.000 units and the minimum cost of transaction would be 1 IOTA (mmm, sounds familiar)

Maybe.

I wasn't trolling. We don't have enough information to predict what will happen in 1 month.

[St.Stephan]

It would be nice to have all this tech talk balanced out by some real information on your marketing plans, projected use scenarios, 3 month / 6 month adoption scenarios etc.

The Achilles heel as you know of most NXT origin projects (SN etc) has been far too much tech and little or no attention paid to RW scenarios of marketing, GUI, sales strategy, business plan implementation etc.

Would be nice to see this thread pivot towards an in-depth, specific presentation of these things. If they exist.

[Jimmy2011]

A) I buy 1 car with 30 BTC via BTC tx
B) I buy 10 car with 300 BTC via BTC tx

Both of case A) and case B) use the same feature of BTC, value transfer and payment, so why I should pay 30 BTC in case A), while pay 300 BTC in case B)?

[AngelLox]

I know the answer is yes, but i'm gonna post just to be safe. Using a blockchain wallet for the crowdsale is safe right? As long as i'm able to send a specific amount  from the same address after the sale ends?