Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users

[nrd525]

So the 9th liquidators report is interesting.  
Claims against Bitcoinica are: 91,300 BTC
$248,000 cash
$276,000 leveraged trading positions (hmm, I wonder if they are ignoring people with negative trading positions?  Maybe not a big deal as they were probably 1/10th of this amount)

But the MtGox trustee values the claims at $6.8 million (USD)!

The bitcoins were only worth around $10 when Bitcoinica went bankrupt, so this claim is equal to all the cash ($524k) and roughly 6.3 million left over for 91k bitcoins - or $690/bitcoin.

If the liquidation ever goes through, it looks like the NZ liquidators will get a sizable amount of money.

This $690/bitcoin is also a major increase from the previously announced value of $483.  So either they changed the Bitcoin valuation or Bitcoinica had a sizable number of bitcoins on the exchange that weren't subject to claims.  Maybe this is best explained by the leveraged trading positions!  As those trading positions should have been backed by purchases of bitcoins.  

If you take $6.8 million, subtract the $250k cash.  You have $6.55 million.  Divide by $483 - and you get 135,600 BTC.  So it is possible that the open positions were equal to 44,300 BTC long (and you have to remember that back then they were only worth $10 - so it wasn't as crazy as this would be now).  That makes more sense than the liquidators changing their valuation of BTC. If they changed their valuation all the time based on market conditions, they'd never be able to liquidate.

[dancingnancy]

So the 9th liquidators report is interesting. 
Claims against Bitcoinica are: 91,300 BTC
$248,000 cash
$276,000 leveraged trading positions (hmm, I wonder if they are ignoring people with negative trading positions?  Maybe not a big deal as they were probably 1/10th of this amount)

But the MtGox trustee values the claims at $6.8 million (USD)!

The bitcoins were only worth around $10 when Bitcoinica went bankrupt, so this claim is equal to all the cash ($524k) and roughly 6.3 million left over for 91k bitcoins - or $690/bitcoin.

If the liquidation ever goes through, it looks like the NZ liquidators will get a sizable amount of money.

This $690/bitcoin is also a major increase from the previously announced value of $483.  So either they changed the Bitcoin valuation or Bitcoinica had a sizable number of bitcoins on the exchange that weren't subject to claims.  Maybe this is best explained by the leveraged trading positions!  As those trading positions should have been backed by purchases of bitcoins. 

If you take $6.8 million, subtract the $250k cash.  You have $6.55 million.  Divide by $483 - and you get 135,600 BTC.  So it is possible that the open positions were equal to 44,300 BTC long (and you have to remember that back then they were only worth $10 - so it wasn't as crazy as this would be now).  That makes more sense than the liquidators changing their valuation of BTC. If they changed their valuation all the time based on market conditions, they'd never be able to liquidate.

I found this interesting, as well.  Impossible to get anything else from the liquidators, though, at this point.

[disclaimer201]

There is only one way this is even worth waiting for after all these years. If we can get back any half-way considerable amount in Bitcoins. I lost about 50 Bitcoins back then and at ten bucks a piece, why would one even bother to still care for 500 bucks so many years later?! I understand some of the claimants are owed hundreds or thousands of bitcoins. Everyone probably went long on with their lives...

[dancingnancy]

From latest report, without subtracting lawyer fees, I think it grosses around 25%.

[nrd525]

Latest report
1) People have made inquiries about buying Bitcoinica's claim.
2) The liquidators are trying to figure out how to value BTC claims in USD.  This could mean they are worth anything from $10 to $2000+.  Though obviously if we use the current market price, we'll only get a percentage of our claims.

[dancingnancy]

Looks like Mark has setup some sort of website for claimants.. not sure where this is heading

https://www.mtgoxrecovery.org/l/en_US/

[HI-TEC99]

Looks like Mark has setup some sort of website for claimants.. not sure where this is heading

https://www.mtgoxrecovery.org/l/en_US/

Where did you find that website address? MagicalTux on reddit mentioned something about a site being up, but I couldn't find a link to it, or details about it.

[dancingnancy]

Looks like Mark has setup some sort of website for claimants.. not sure where this is heading

https://www.mtgoxrecovery.org/l/en_US/

I found it on reddit.com/mtgoxinsolvency

Where did you find that website address? MagicalTux on reddit mentioned something about a site being up, but I couldn't find a link to it, or details about it.

[nrd525]

The alleged money-launderer at BTCe is accused of having laundered the Bitcoinica hack:
http://blog.wizsec.jp/2017/07/breaking-open-mtgox-1.html

[dancingnancy]

The alleged money-launderer at BTCe is accused of having laundered the Bitcoinica hack:
http://blog.wizsec.jp/2017/07/breaking-open-mtgox-1.html

wow, i wonder if we will be able to claim any more btc from this??

[Koekiemonster]

Did anyone receive any request for additional information in relation to their claim from the liquidator as they stated they would in their letter from 17 July?

I haven't so far.

[dancingnancy]

Did anyone receive any request for additional information in relation to their claim from the liquidator as they stated they would in their letter from 17 July?

I haven't so far.

I actually sent the liquidator an email asking this. Here is their reply:

We will advise you if we require more information. At this stage we are still reviewing documentation.

[2GOOD]

Did anyone receive any request for additional information in relation to their claim from the liquidator as they stated they would in their letter from 17 July?

I haven't so far.

I actually sent the liquidator an email asking this. Here is their reply:

We will advise you if we require more information. At this stage we are still reviewing documentation.

This is taking ages to be resolved, I guess they all wait for MtGox first.

[nrd525]

So they sent out another round of letters. Looks like they are planning on doing distributions soonish.

"and the amounts I received between 11 May 2012 and the date of Bitcoinica’s liquidation on 2 November 2012, were as follows:"

Why are they so concerned with these two sets of dates?   Do they have records from May 2012, but not from Nov 2012?  

Also  - you are meant to list your BTC Account balance and USD account balance.  Unfortunately I had a small (6 btc) short. Do I list that as a negative balance?   Otherwise, I know my USD balance.

My main documentation is my claim form submitted to Bitcoinica as I mostly transferred USD there.  I sent the money via Dwolla. So my Dwolla records have it going to Mutum Sigillum LLC.  Was that a MtGox LLC?    Did we use "MtGox Money" to transer funds to Bitcoinica?  I remember something like that.


I also don't understand their form for bank numbers.  I've got a nine digit number (on my check book) and then a 8 digit account number.  A US bank.
 I know how to break it into "routing number" and "account number".  
How do I convert that into their Bank, Branch, Account Number system?

I think they might be using the British system for checks, which differs from the US one.

[disclaimer201]

Can we be certain our documents will be safe?

I'm not comfortable giving out my documents like my passport and proof of address, birth certificate or a utility bill for "just" 50 BTC at a price of what, a few Dollars per BTC. If there would be any distribution of the original amount of BTC in BTC that would be an entirely different story, however it doesn't look like this is anywhere near happening after all these years.

[nrd525]

If they value BTC at $10, you might be getting back several times what you lost as they should have a massive surplus.  MtGox itself should be in surplus with BTC over $3000 or $4000.  MtGox should be able to pay out 100% of the Bitcoinica claim and then that may be 10 - 100 times more than the claims (with BTC valued at $10 by the Bitcoinica liquidators and $600 - I think? - by the MtGox liquidators).

This is just a hypothesis.  I am not experienced with liquidations.  Maybe the Bitcoinica owners will get the surplus.  Maybe the BTC owners will be compensated with the surplus (for their loss in excess of the $10 cost basis). Or maybe we'll need to settle this in court with a class action suit.

[tbcoin]

Bitcoinica die at may 2012, I dont understant why are they asking about received between 11 May 2012 and 2 November 2012

[nrd525]

So my US bank gave me
-a Swift code
-my routing number
-my account number

The rest of the codes don't seem to apply to US banks. Also the format that they provide for the numbers is bad.

I'm going to email the liquidators to ask them about this. My guess is they won't respond, but if other US residents want to email them - perhaps we could get some clarification.

If they don't clarify, I will amend the form myself.

I also notarized a copy of my passport which fortunately only cost $5.

[nrd525]

The wording is very unclear, but maybe they are asking about the difference in your account balance from May 11, 2012 to November 2, 2012 to cover people who received a partial reimbursement from Zhou Tong.    He was giving out an approximately 50% reimbursement (which I received).

[MelMan2002]

The wording is very unclear, but maybe they are asking about the difference in your account balance from May 11, 2012 to November 2, 2012 to cover people who received a partial reimbursement from Zhou Tong.    He was giving out an approximately 50% reimbursement (which I received).

That was from back when Donald, Patrick, Amir, and Tihan were passing out partial reimbursements, right?  I didn't get any of that...