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Author Topic: Jinn/IOTA - What is really going on?  (Read 12319 times)
DecentralizeEconomics
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December 02, 2015, 09:46:01 AM
 #1

This is an unmoderated thread to discuss Jinn/IOTA and to figure out the truth of what is really happening.

Originally, Jinn assets were sold on the NXT exchange under the premise that they would turn into legal "profit-shares" that would be distributed to the asset holders.

https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/%28ann%29-jinn/msg156081/#msg156081
Quote from: Triangle

Instead we'll ask everyone who holds Jinn tokens to give us their contact information (we'll need this in preparation for the legal transfer of profit-shares in the near future anyway) where we'll answer more intricate questions, without opening ourselves up for scruitiny from every angle imaginable in public.


Then it was decided that these Jinn assets wouldn't entitle their holders to a share of the profits, but instead they would be redeemable for a cryptocurrency called IOTAs.

IOTA - JINN SWAP
Quote from: Triangle
We are happy to finally be able to share the details surrounding the JINN to IOTA conversion. The JINN tokens will be locked at the fixed value of 0.0063 BTC, the reasoning behind this is that we offer this conversion primarily for those that did not understand what they bought when they bought JINN. This was the value on the time of the sale and thus ensures that absolutely no one lost anything on their purchase of JINN tokens.

Then, it was declared that IOTA wasn't really a cryptocurrency.

https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/iota-jinn/msg201723/#msg201723
Quote from: Triangle
IOTA should not be considered a cryptocurrency, even if it may have been described as that by us or others previously.

Then, it was declared that IOTA shouldn't be considered an investment.

https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/iota-jinn/msg201628/#msg201628
Quote from: Triangle
IOTA should also not be considered an investment.  There is absolutely no guarantee that the IOTA that you purchase will increase in value. Instead you need to consider that over time it may decrease in value.
https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/iota-jinn/msg201890/#msg201890
Quote from: Triangle
Yes. It's *NOT* an investment.

Why does David/Uniqueorn/Triangle/iotatoken keep changing the terms of the arrangement with investors?  How can he say that people haven't lost anything when what is being given to them, "a non-cryptocurrency, non-investment", is different from what was originally promised, "profit-shares"?

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 02, 2015, 09:58:46 AM
 #2

Of course it's not an investment, it's a software token on the same level as Ether or REP in Augur. No one has 'changed the terms' even once, but after EU decided to recognize cryptocurrencies as a currency, you can no longer use this word casually, hence the clarification.
This is things you need to take into consideration when you run a legit project like we do and not just a random forum scheme.
Of course you'd know all of this if you had actually read these threads.

So in summary: your thread is confused FUD.


*Edit: Just noticed that you are the same guy who didn't understand how IoT could make better products, so won't waste more time on you*

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December 03, 2015, 09:24:14 AM
 #3

https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/%28ann%29-jinn/msg156081/#msg156081
Quote from: Triangle

Instead we'll ask everyone who holds Jinn tokens to give us their contact information (we'll need this in preparation for the legal transfer of profit-shares in the near future anyway) where we'll answer more intricate questions, without opening ourselves up for scruitiny from every angle imaginable in public.



Of course it's not an investment, it's a software token.

Please, clarify how a "profit-share" is *NOT* an investment.  How can you honestly sit there and say that people didn't purchase Jinn as an investment when you told them they would be legally transferred "profit-shares"?  

No one has 'changed the terms' even once.

https://nxtforum.org/news-and-announcements/iota-jinn/msg201723/#msg201723
Quote from: Triangle
IOTA should not be considered a cryptocurrency, even if it may have been described as that by us or others previously.

Really?  If the terms haven't been changed, why is IOTA no longer considered a "cryptocurrency"?

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 03, 2015, 09:26:43 AM
 #4

Already responded to all of this. Read up again troll. /last message to you

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December 03, 2015, 09:36:03 AM
 #5

Already responded to all of this. Read up again troll. /last message to you

No, you didn't.  You didn't respond to any of it.

The truth of the matter is that you don't have any idea, legally, how to structure any of this and therefore, you are changing the terms of the agreement on all of your investors in a futile attempt to feign compliance.

How can you claim this is "*NOT* an investment"?  Do you honestly believe people just gave you money and expected nothing in return?

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 03, 2015, 09:37:34 AM
 #6

IOTA is software. We got 2 long documents explaining this and several threads. Stop stalking me, thanks.

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December 03, 2015, 09:42:48 AM
 #7

Already responded to all of this. Read up again troll. /last message to you

I thought that was going to be your last response.

IOTA is software. We got 2 long documents explaining this and several threads.

That is like claiming that Bitcoin is just software.  Are IOTAs not transferable between parties?

Stop stalking me, thanks.

I'm not stalking you.  This is my thread.  You came here on your own volition.

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 03, 2015, 09:44:15 AM
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Stop stalking me. Thanks

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December 03, 2015, 09:52:59 AM
 #9

Stop stalking me. Thanks

Again, you are here responding on your own free will.  Here is the legal definition of "stalking".  There is no court in the world that would consider you coming here on your own accord and responding to me as me "stalking" you.  There is nothing illegal about me starting my own thread and having an unmoderated conversation about your lack of business acumen.

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 03, 2015, 10:09:17 AM
 #10

Already responded to all of this. Read up again troll. /last message to you

IOTA is software. We got 2 long documents explaining this and several threads. Stop stalking me, thanks.

Stop stalking me. Thanks

Stop stalking me. Thanks

This is your third post after you said that it would be your "last message".

Do you know that the inability to follow through on your decisions, repeating nonsensical statements as fact and a persecution complex might be signs of mental illness?  You might want to see a psychiatrist about your behavior.

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 03, 2015, 10:13:16 AM
 #11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1Yt0xJKDY8

bye

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December 03, 2015, 10:34:04 AM
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This is your fourth post after you said that it would be your "last message".  Please seek mental help and resign from your position at Triangle / Jinn / IOTA.  You owe your non-investors that much.

The fact that David Sonstebo cannot respond to these basic questions and instead attempts to deflect the conversation away from himself by expressing a persecution complex is quite troubling.  It is a sad fact that in today's society there are still those among us that suffer from mental illness and instability.  Sometimes, these people are our friends, relatives or neighbors, and sometimes, these people are "CEOs" of start-ups.  Nobody knows what makes them snap, but when they do, it is devastating for all parties involved.  Businesses fail, friendships are lost, and families are shattered.  The only advice I can give to any of these non-investors is to get as far away from David Sonstebo as you can before he totally loses it and wipes out your non-investments.

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 03, 2015, 10:40:10 AM
 #13

Everyone that wants all info on IOTA that is not from an obsessed troll:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1262688.0

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December 03, 2015, 11:08:59 AM
 #14

Then it was decided that these Jinn assets wouldn't entitle their holders to a share of the profits, but instead they would be redeemable for a cryptocurrency called IOTAs.

Where did you take this from? I'm not sure I got you right, do you mean that those who don't swap JINN for IOTA will be left with useless junk?
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December 03, 2015, 10:40:59 PM
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Then it was decided that these Jinn assets wouldn't entitle their holders to a share of the profits, but instead they would be redeemable for a cryptocurrency called IOTAs.

Where did you take this from? I'm not sure I got you right, do you mean that those who don't swap JINN for IOTA will be left with useless junk?

What would they be left with since it is considered "*NOT* an investment" by the CEO?

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 04, 2015, 12:31:40 AM
 #16

Then it was decided that these Jinn assets wouldn't entitle their holders to a share of the profits, but instead they would be redeemable for a cryptocurrency called IOTAs.

Where did you take this from? I'm not sure I got you right, do you mean that those who don't swap JINN for IOTA will be left with useless junk?

What would they be left with since it is considered "*NOT* an investment" by the CEO?

So it was just your guess?
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December 04, 2015, 12:39:28 AM
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Then it was decided that these Jinn assets wouldn't entitle their holders to a share of the profits, but instead they would be redeemable for a cryptocurrency called IOTAs.

Where did you take this from? I'm not sure I got you right, do you mean that those who don't swap JINN for IOTA will be left with useless junk?

What would they be left with since it is considered "*NOT* an investment" by the CEO?

So it was just your guess?

It's a logical conclusion.  If Jinn assets are "*NOT* an investment" and after a certain date they aren't redeemable IOTA which the CEO claims is "NOT a cryptocurrency", what are they?

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 04, 2015, 12:46:17 AM
 #18


It's a logical conclusion.  If Jinn assets are "*NOT* an investment" and after a certain date they aren't redeemable IOTA which the CEO claims is "NOT a cryptocurrency", what are they?

Go back to the forum you were just banned from and read the thread, everyone else got it.

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December 04, 2015, 12:54:22 AM
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It's a logical conclusion.  If Jinn assets are "*NOT* an investment" and after a certain date they aren't redeemable IOTA which the CEO claims is "NOT a cryptocurrency", what are they?

Go back to the forum you were just banned from and read the thread, everyone else got it.

Everybody else didn't get it.  Other people have pointed out that you are contradicting yourself and are confused.

How can you say that the "terms haven't changed even once", when you are now stating that what people purchased should "not be considered an investment or a cryptocurrency" when you sold it to them as "profit-shares"?

YOURCHAIN - MAKE CRYPTO YOURS AGAIN!
"Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties." - Areopagitica
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December 04, 2015, 01:21:21 AM
 #20

Perhaps Iota folks may have started to morph the presentation of their endeavors to prospective "investors", because of this thread I did on the legality of selling unregistered shares to investors:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1218399.0

In any case, I do not take sides on this issue. I am not making any accusations of bad intentions nor intentional fraud.

If they have already raised money in the form of shares (and I have no position about whether that claim is true or not because I don't know), I will just note that per my thread above, it is seems impossible for them to now claim they are not offering an investment and have it stand up as a valid argument in a court of law w.r.t. to (at least USA) securities law.

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