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Author Topic: BitSafe Hardware Wallet Development  (Read 11045 times)
slush
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November 27, 2012, 11:13:24 AM
Last edit: November 27, 2012, 11:33:11 AM by slush
 #21

Who Knows, when I'm done publishing all my design files to this thread, it may even help them.

Although we're using another platform, your choice for HRNG is quite interesting. We ordered some Atmel samples and we will do some tests with them. Unfortunatey Atmel is very unclear about *how* their HRNG works. I must say that bitcoin wallet requires much stronger HRNG source than any other common device and I'm concerned about the true randomness of it.

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November 27, 2012, 11:20:27 AM
 #22

Actually 512kB is far enough for this purpose. We're working on solution with 256kB of flash. And yes, BIP32 is a way to go for such small devices.

Comparing apples and oranges here. Bitsafe is MIPS architecture, ours is ARM. MIPS binaries are approx 2x bigger than ARM ones.

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November 27, 2012, 11:34:33 AM
 #23

Comparing apples and oranges here. Bitsafe is MIPS architecture, ours is ARM. MIPS binaries are approx 2x bigger than ARM ones.
Are you sure? Are you really comparing MIPS16 with Thumb?

I've seen some numbers for an older project and the MIPS vs. MIPS16
and ARM vs. Thumb sizes were within about 10% of each other. Tests were made with commercial C compilers, not GCC though. Maybe some GCC oddity?

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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November 27, 2012, 02:36:12 PM
 #24

Comparing apples and oranges here. Bitsafe is MIPS architecture, ours is ARM. MIPS binaries are approx 2x bigger than ARM ones.
Are you sure? Are you really comparing MIPS16 with Thumb?

I've seen some numbers for an older project and the MIPS vs. MIPS16
and ARM vs. Thumb sizes were within about 10% of each other. Tests were made with commercial C compilers, not GCC though. Maybe some GCC oddity?



Yes, it is true. They are pretty close. Someone42 has even verified this.
Thanks
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November 27, 2012, 02:37:54 PM
 #25

Who Knows, when I'm done publishing all my design files to this thread, it may even help them.

Although we're using another platform, your choice for HRNG is quite interesting. We ordered some Atmel samples and we will do some tests with them. Unfortunatey Atmel is very unclear about *how* their HRNG works. I must say that bitcoin wallet requires much stronger HRNG source than any other common device and I'm concerned about the true randomness of it.

That's cool Slush. Please let me know how it goes.
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December 05, 2012, 05:22:50 AM
 #26

Update: 12/04/2012
       Finished the BOM today. It can be viewed here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o8u356ubi61wzy6/BOM_0.1_LastUpdate_10_25_2012.pdf

The total COMPONENT price is $30.91 USD (note: price for components ordered individually).

I think I will be able to get the component price below $20.00 USD with samples and a larger order.

Instead of waiting to see who will order to get an idea of how many of these to build, I went ahead
and decided to build 50+. It will be a risk on my part and I will be putting all the money down.

Look what I discovered:
The first time the name "BitSafe" was used can be found here:
https://github.com/rb1205/BitSafe
Credits go to Riccardo Belloli for the name
hazek
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December 05, 2012, 11:49:11 AM
 #27

Wait, you finished the hardware wallet?

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
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December 05, 2012, 12:05:53 PM
 #28

Look what I discovered:
The first time the name "BitSafe" was used can be found here:
https://github.com/rb1205/BitSafe

"Bitsafe needs a device of at least 4 gb with decent write speed."

I understand it is "standard" desktop wallet, using USB flash disks just as storages.

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December 05, 2012, 12:07:20 PM
 #29


Really "OLED 0.92" 128x64 Monochrome White" for <$5 ? At what quantity?

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December 05, 2012, 05:45:21 PM
 #30

Wait, you finished the hardware wallet?

That would be nice. More like I hit another milestone.
I now have a good idea of what the component price (not the same as the TOTAL PRICE) will be for my goal of getting 50 boards ready.

Here's what I have left to do:
        Order Components
        Request Samples
        Put Finishing touches on PCB and also make it more friendly for production
        Order PCBs
        Assemble a Couple boards
        Validate the Design (this will take a while and if anything needs revised its a set back of a three to four weeks and ~$200 USD with the PCB Fab house I'm considering)
        If all goes well with first board design (usually wishful thinking) then I will see how fast and cheap I can get the rest of the boards assembled.

Since you are interesting in how long, I think Someone42 and I will have a few boards assembled for validation only in 6 to 8 weeks.
I'm plan on staying at the validation phase for a while. Don't want to rush boards to everyone without finding the HW bugs first.
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December 05, 2012, 05:52:08 PM
 #31


I got a quote for 65. Not sure if it is the best price, but seamed pretty good
for a low quantity order. Let me know if your interested in the company I ordered from.
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December 05, 2012, 05:55:05 PM
 #32

Clarification: "50 kits being prepared"

What I mean by this is I'm sampling, ordering, and gathering all the components right now for at least 50 kits. I'm not at the PCB assembly stage.

-Allten
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December 05, 2012, 06:06:27 PM
 #33


Since you are interesting in how long, I think Someone42 and I will have a few boards assembled for validation only in 6 to 8 weeks.
I'm plan on staying at the validation phase for a while. Don't want to rush boards to everyone without finding the HW bugs first.


Sounds excellent! I really can't wait until both your hardware wallet and the piglet become available and make secure handling of bitcoins with ease accessible to any user.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
allten
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January 03, 2013, 03:55:37 AM
Last edit: January 03, 2013, 06:15:09 AM by allten
 #34

Update: 02/02/2013 01/02/2013 Tongue

Ok, as mentioned before there are 50 kits being prepared to be distributed to developers, early adopters, and beta testers.
I've calculated a final price today for DEVELOPERS ONLY: it's $28.00 per device. This price
excludes the time and/or money that will go into the final fabrication and assembly. It's my gift to Bitcoin.
At this price, I just might break even with all the money I've personally put into the project.
(Assuming I don't have to re-spin some PCBs: wishful thinking, but I will personally eat the costs)

The final price for early adopters and others interested in having the latest cool gadget is $45.00 Dollars.
It takes a lot of time, special equipment, and skill to manually assembly a project like this with quality.

NOTES:

1)The price does not include a USB extension cable which is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED for
developers: $4.05 + Shipping
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Foot-USB-Extension-Cable/dp/B001G4ZA6I/ref=pd_bxgy_pc_img_y
2) This price does not include a PicKit 3 which is a must at this early level of development: $45.00 + Shipping
http://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductSearch.aspx?Keywords=PG164130
3) There will be some testing of each device, but minimal.
4) Price for Developers and others does not include shipping costs.
5) 30 day money back, but shipping is paid by buyer both ways.

Total Developers COST: 28.00 + $4.00 + 45.00 + Shipping = $77.0

So, am I ready to take orders? Not even close!

So, why did I update and bump my thread?
Well, I need to get a list of all interested developers.
This will help me get an idea of how many night and weekend hours I'm going to be assembling boards for free. PLUS, I would appreciate
if potential DEVELOPERS that are hindered by the price offered would allow me to post a unique BTC addresses for donations on their behalf.

Thanks.
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January 03, 2013, 05:53:45 AM
 #35

Update OP: 02/02/2013
Minor note - You are a month too late in your date! Don't slip the schedule just yet!!!


I'd be in for a development kit. I can do all the soldering as well if that is an option. I could possibly assist with some assembly on the production run as well, I have the basics to do prototypes and short runs available at work. (stencil printer, reflow oven, small tweezers & steady hands Smiley)

What is included in the dev kit? I am assuming just the board and components? I already have an ICD3...

You should also quote USB extension cables from monoprice.com, for only $1.79/1qty (+shipping)

Also, looking at the BOM + schematic, I see the Atmel IC as RNG, so all of the 'Universal Hardware RNG' components would go away, correct? Or would it be an assembly option?

Thanks!
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January 03, 2013, 06:24:22 AM
 #36

Update OP: 02/02/2013
Minor note - You are a month too late in your date! Don't slip the schedule just yet!!!


I'd be in for a development kit. I can do all the soldering as well if that is an option. I could possibly assist with some assembly on the production run as well, I have the basics to do prototypes and short runs available at work. (stencil printer, reflow oven, small tweezers & steady hands Smiley)

What is included in the dev kit? I am assuming just the board and components? I already have an ICD3...

You should also quote USB extension cables from monoprice.com, for only $1.79/1qty (+shipping)

Also, looking at the BOM + schematic, I see the Atmel IC as RNG, so all of the 'Universal Hardware RNG' components would go away, correct? Or would it be an assembly option?

Thanks!

Fixed the date. Thanks!

I was hoping to have both HRNG on the PCB before sending it out (The Atmel will be on there for sure). The circuity for the other one is very flexible and I'm unsure what the final values will be.

I'll update the price for the USB extension. Thanks again!

I'm not sure if the ICD3 will work. I'll have to look into it. If it does, you will still need an RJ-45 to a 6-pin female pin header adapter.

Your offer to help assembly is extremely appreciated. Stencil printing too; I'm envious, but this is really great. Whereabouts in the world you located? I'm in Arizona.
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January 03, 2013, 07:50:09 AM
 #37

I'm not sure if the ICD3 will work. I'll have to look into it. If it does, you will still need an RJ-45 to a 6-pin female pin header adapter.
It looks like the ICD3 will support the PIC32 from microchip's website. Also, I have made lots of custom programming headers, since RJ-11 is a horrible choice for a programming header.

Quote
Your offer to help assembly is extremely appreciated. Stencil printing too; I'm envious, but this is really great. Whereabouts in the world you located? I'm in Arizona.

I'm in TX, whois paybitcoin.com + google if you must know  Wink... At work we do a bunch of prototyping and custom engineering work. Mostly with Linux/Android now on armv7a using CPU system-on-modules since our apps got more complex, but used to be all PIC18. We started to move off to other architectures (Cortex-M3) since MPLAB is such a bad IDE, and mostly the 4096 byte RAM limit with PIC18s. I haven't used the PIC24 or PIC32 though.
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January 03, 2013, 12:10:35 PM
 #38

2) This price does not include a PicKit 3 which is a must at this early level of development: $45.00 + Shipping
http://www.microchipdirect.com/ProductSearch.aspx?Keywords=PG164130

It is possible to avoid using a PicKit 3. If the dev board is loaded with an appropriate bootloader (eg. http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1824&appnote=en554836), it should be possible to program the device using the on-board USB port.

What the PicKit3 is useful for, is if:
  • You want to develop or modify the bootloader itself (if you mess up the bootloader, you could brick the PIC32, in which case you need a PicKit3 to recover).
  • You want good integration with MPLAB.
  • You want to use debugging features like breakpoints, watches etc.

Also, looking at the BOM + schematic, I see the Atmel IC as RNG, so all of the 'Universal Hardware RNG' components would go away, correct? Or would it be an assembly option?

The story is: we had a few ideas for hardware random number generators (the Atmel chip, thermal noise, zener noise from zener, zener noise from voltage reference). Instead of choosing one, all of them were included. There are a bunch of 0 ohm resistors to facilitate switching between circuits. The different generators have their own advantages and disadvantages.
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January 03, 2013, 06:11:38 PM
 #39

The different generators have their own advantages and disadvantages.

Could you please elaborate more on this topic? Just to make sure we are on the same page here ...

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January 03, 2013, 06:33:25 PM
 #40


Do you've see this one http://www.ebay.pl/itm/1-8-Serial-TFT-Color-LCD-Display-Module-With-SPI-Interface-5-IO-Ports-128X160-/350631278788?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item51a340b8c4?

Near 3£ for 1 piece of 1,8" colour TFT (and is arduino compatible too)


Bitrated user: ercolinux.
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