Introduced bitcoin to a developer.

[Herodes]

Introduced bitcoin do a developer I know by simply sending him an e-mail asking him if he ever heard about bitcoin.

I got a knee jerk reaction in turn where he ranted about terrorism, criminals and untracability. I asked him what he thought is currently being used as funds at all the black and grey markets in the world.

I can't undestand why an intelligent developer will have this view, is it the negative press?

Anyway, I told him about the wordpress development, and gave him a list of the sites that accepts bitcoins (from the wiki) and linked him to the whitepaper and the Bitcoin 100 charity list.

He was also afraid of anarchism and didn't see this as a solution, and didn't want to go cold turkey on the current system.

Why is is that someones first reaction to bitcoin is this negative ? He said on a technical level it seemed very interesting though. I am pretty sure he hasn't educated himself about how it works on a technical level at all, everybody would need some time to truly understand that.

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[1714605598]

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[shwoop]

Introduced bitcoin do a developer I know by simply sending him an e-mail asking him if he ever heard about bitcoin.

I got a knee jerk reaction in turn where he ranted about terrorism, criminals and untracability. I asked him what he thought is currently being used as funds at all the black and grey markets in the world.

I can't undestand why an intelligent developer will have this view, is it the negative press?

Anyway, I told him about the wordpress development, and gave him a list of the sites that accepts bitcoins (from the wiki) and linked him to the whitepaper and the Bitcoin 100 charity list.

He was also afraid of anarchism and didn't see this as a solution, and didn't want to go cold turkey on the current system.

Why is is that someones first reaction to bitcoin is this negative ? He said on a technical level it seemed very interesting though. I am pretty sure he hasn't educated himself about how it works on a technical level at all, everybody would need some time to truly understand that.

Pretty much all the press is negative and relating to silk road or passing references to some master ruse.
Also, most people rely too heavily on the current system and see anarchists as one dimensional crusties who live in tents and smash up shops on May day.

Most of my friends who haven't taken the time to look into Bitcoin still see it as a scam.

[Herodes]

If there's one thing I've learned. It is this:

1. Don't trust any state.
2. Don't trust news media.


So what's left is to figure out things for yourself. Upon hearing about bitcoin, I read the whitepaper whithin the same day and did my best to educate myself about it and learn. Why don't others do the same ?

[greyhawk]

Why don't others do the same ?

Programmers are usually atheist. They are just not that much interested in being converted to religions.

[cbeast]

Most programmers I know can't tie their own shoelaces. They think linearly. Don't expect them to see a hypertoroid.

[Herodes]

Programmers are usually atheist. They are just not that much interested in being converted to religions.

Ok, troll, I'll bite.

Why is bitcoin a religion ? Looking into a technology and seeing the potential, and being positive to it, will this make me a religious nut ?

I don't see any problem in being negative towards bitcoin, if the critisism is based on facts.

So, if I like and tell people about Linux, am I a religious nutter?

Most programmers I know can't tie their own shoelaces. They think linearly. Don't expect them to see a hypertoroid.

Could not this be applied to most people ?

[cbeast]

Most programmers I know can't tie their own shoelaces. They think linearly. Don't expect them to see a hypertoroid.

Could not this be applied to most people ?

Exactly. Programmers are just technicians. They are not dreamers. Dreamers are the people that shed their blood for the betterment of humanity.

[shwoop]

If there's one thing I've learned. It is this:

1. Don't trust any state.
2. Don't trust news media.


So what's left is to figure out things for yourself. Upon hearing about bitcoin, I read the whitepaper whithin the same day and did my best to educate myself about it and learn. Why don't others do the same ?

It took me a while between hearing about Bitcoin and reading the white paper but that was what really piqued my interest.

[Herodes]

As to a techie getting worked up about it, I'm not sure how bitcoin has been portrayed in other circles but in many of the tech journals the articles have been negative and frequently inaccurate and the majority of the readers comments have been very negative.

Agreed, it would actually be very strange if there was only positive news about Bitcoin. Personally, I've learned that I can't take anything I read at face value, esp. not what I read in 'the news'.


And in regards to the point of being a religious nutter. Someone that constantly bombards you with how great their idea/religion/tech is, could be considered a religious nutter. Personally, I just mention something one or two times, and if people don't bite, I never bug them anymore.

[TraderTimm]

I find it is less about what their profession is, and more about how 'captured' they are by current society.

If the person is uncomfortable considering ideas that are "outside" conventional circles, they sure as hell won't be bothering with bitcoin. Bitcoin brings up all those grey areas about what money really is, how the economy is being run, and just how badly you're getting screwed by the current gate-keepers of the financial system.

Some people don't want to deal with that. They just want to get home, eat dinner and space out on the internet or watch a movie. Thinking is hard, and thinking about things that are outside the normal scope of things is harder still.

This doesn't mean that bitcoin will never get its day in the sun, just that those who realize the potential early on will be the greatest benefactors, and rightly so - we take the risks that the timid won't consider.

[Herodes]

I find it is less about what their profession is, and more about how 'captured' they are by current society.

TraderTimm, great post, I wish I could upvote it.

+1 anyway..

[DarkHyudrA]

I'm programmer and I'm feeling some insult in this topic, don't label ALL programmers

I must admit that most of programmers just keep looking of what most of the web says about, and think linearly and using the Boolean Logic, where the things are only 2 state: or it is, or it isn't.
Most programmers keep their lifes with themselves and never think of great things, except apps and other executabels that could be fun and make money.

[yogi]

People feel safe inside their little walled gardens.

When you tell them your gona pull the wall down it terrifies them.

[cbeast]

I'm programmer and I'm feeling some insult in this topic, don't label ALL programmers

I must admit that most of programmers just keep looking of what most of the web says about, and think linearly and using the Boolean Logic, where the things are only 2 state: or it is, or it isn't.
Most programmers keep their lifes with themselves and never think of great things, except apps and other executabels that could be fun and make money.

A thousand apologies. I usually make sweeping overgeneralized statements with the disclaimer "present company excluded, of course."

[Herodes]

I am a programmer and I am a "dreamer". So that is a very false statement and kinda insulting.

+1 

[Danijel Habek]

I've asked a programmer of MyClientBase if he would like to accept donation for his invoice and client management open source software about a year ago.
I admit I was a bit surprised after I've received his bitcoin address in his reply.
I've failed to donate to whole bunch of freeware or open source software, not sure why. It's not that hard to spend BTC, or exchange it if you really want to.

[caffeinewriter]

I have 7 friends that use it, and the rest of my friends don't see the point in it/think it'll destroy the world economy. I've been forced to result to the points of "Okay, then tell my why video game currencies haven't" and "What do you think's used in blackmarkets everywhere right now?" The first one's a logical fallacy, and the second one's just "THINK DAMMIT!"

[TraderTimm]

I have 7 friends that use it, and the rest of my friends don't see the point in it/think it'll destroy the world economy. I've been forced to result to the points of "Okay, then tell my why video game currencies haven't" and "What do you think's used in blackmarkets everywhere right now?" The first one's a logical fallacy, and the second one's just "THINK DAMMIT!"

Just tell them that it will do better than the Euro. At least bitcoin isn't dragging down the collective economies of multiple countries. Also emphasize that it sticks to rational monetary policy, but only if they really push it. Most people don't even know what Bernanke does, even though they should.

[Herodes]

Well, I had some more communication with my friend.

He seems to be very concerned about the possibility of criminal usage for bitcoin.

I try to explain that the technology is neutral, and that crime should be fixed by fixing the root cause, ie. better parenting, better schooling, and give people opportunities and resources.

As the saying goes:

It's easier to raise a boy to be a good man, than to fix a broken man.


My aim was to tell him about bitcoin and let him know about it, but he went all defensive, quoting numerous bitcoin articles and saying that bitcoin has failed several times (as in Bitcoinica, Pirate etc).

I tried to give him the road analogy, a road is still working even if criminals runs on it, and there's fatalities with large car crashed. The technology (the road) does it purpose, but it's the individuals that
are using the technology that causes all the problems.

He seemed to be a bit black and white, either you use bitcoin and don't use traditional systems, or the other way around. It's not like that, I merely wanted him to know about bitcoins, and the opportunities it gives.

Although I'm pro bitcoin, I have no problems with criticism of Bitcoin as long as it's based on logic and facts. I'm not here to prove anyone wrong or to 'win'. I just inform, then people can make up their own mind.

But I think that dismissing something without properly understanding it, that's a bit silly. So at this point I think it became more of a back and forth issue about who's right and who's not. And that was never the intention.

He claims that he's an individual thinker, and doesn't get affected by the mass media, but yet he gives me countless links showing how bitcoin 'has failed'.

For example, this is one of the 'fails' he refers to:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19486695

And then of course countless others.

He also says bitcoin is shredded in secrecy and that there's no accountability.

I respond that it's all there in the open, the name of developers, the source code and of course, it's up to the individual to secure his own bitcoins.


Hm... Not really sure where I want to go with all this, but it could be a lesson for those who read this thread. Don't make judgements about anything until you truly understand it, and certainly do not let the media decide what your opinion should be.

Of course there's been a lot of 'fails' within the bitcoin community, but bitcoin itself (the protocol / the software) has worked as promised, and has delivered the infrastructure it's supposed to do for 4 years.

I'm also a bit surprised that media articles paints bitcoin as a failure, when big bitcoin services fail, would anyone of those journalists paint the USD as a fail if a big bank had some executives running away with the money, or if there was a heist of all the valuables at a central bank ?

It seems to me, since bitcoin is based on cryptography, it's something new and scary, and most journalists doesn't have the technical knowhow to understand what it's all about, so hence they just run with whatever sensational piece they have. This new, cryptocurrency thing - yeah, that exchange - yes it failed - ah - bitcoin failed again.

Brilliant line of thinking right there...


Edit: Yeah, and of course the statement: "It's not mainstream yet."   Doh... what new tech was ever mainstream in the beginning (TV, mobile phone, computer).

[TraderTimm]

Just cut to the heart of it -- the language he develops in has no doubt been used to construct malware and virus programs, why does he continue to use it? Hasn't it "failed"? Of course not, but perhaps he may see more clearly with such an example.

If not, he'll come around eventually when most of the tech jobs switch over to bitcoin