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Author Topic: And some more delays in BFL shipment plans / no shipment before 14th Jan 2013  (Read 22539 times)
creativex
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December 12, 2012, 03:22:49 PM
 #201

While  I agree that anonymity isn't a guaranteed right, and those that are proven to be scammers or child pornographers should be dox'd.  My only concern is of starting a trend of "jumping the gun".  While BFL has missed there projected dates, which could be for many reasons. I personally think it has just been a poorly managed project and this does not prove malicious intent.  

Fucking up is not cause for attacking people personally. If it were, then how many of us deserve the same fate?

Your assessment of BFL's actions is very charitable(calling them fuckups). For myself I fail to see how they could possibly believe they were going to ship finished products in 2012, yet as recently as last week Josh and others(Debbie) were still advising potential customers that they either still had a chance to ship in 2012 or that they had "scheduled shipments" in December of 2012 and January of 2013.

Given what we now know(which is only what BFL reps want us to know) I fail to see how this behavior can be labelled a "fuck up", but your millage may vary.  

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December 12, 2012, 03:34:40 PM
 #202

For myself I fail to see how they could possibly believe they were going to ship finished products in 2012, yet as recently as last week Josh and others(Debbie) were still advising potential customers that they either still had a chance to ship in 2012 or that they had "scheduled shipments" in December of 2012 and January of 2013.

If you fail to see it, then I'm left wondering what your experience has been with vendors like BFL's fab. In my experience, they misrepresent themselves so consistently that your only option is to not trust what they say. I think BFL's issue was then trusting a vendor they had no prior relationship with, a failure on their part, but one that is easy to see how it happened. I personally have been involved in a project with a pretty similar outcome, where our trust in such a vendor ended up with 0 product on launch day. That experience has it so that I always have checkpoints early and often in my projects with these vendors, and even with new employees.

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December 12, 2012, 03:40:54 PM
 #203

For myself I fail to see how they could possibly believe they were going to ship finished products in 2012, yet as recently as last week Josh and others(Debbie) were still advising potential customers that they either still had a chance to ship in 2012 or that they had "scheduled shipments" in December of 2012 and January of 2013.

If you fail to see it, then I'm left wondering what your experience has been with vendors like BFL's fab. In my experience, they misrepresent themselves so consistently that your only option is to not trust what they say. I think BFL's issue was then trusting a vendor they had no prior relationship with, a failure on their part, but one that is easy to see how it happened. I personally have been involved in a project with a pretty similar outcome, where our trust in such a vendor ended up with 0 product on launch day. That experience has it so that I always have checkpoints early and often in my projects with these vendors, and even with new employees.

If I trusted what they said, even to the tiniest extent, I likely would have followed through and funded an order with them. I do not...so I did not.

Your defense of them seems to be that they're dishonest, naive idiots, but not scammers. Have I summed that up about right?

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December 12, 2012, 03:41:48 PM
 #204

While  I agree that anonymity isn't a guaranteed right, and those that are proven to be scammers or child pornographers should be dox'd.  My only concern is starting a trend of "jumping the gun".  While BFL has missed there projected dates, which could be for many reasons. I personally think it has just been a poorly managed project. This does not prove malicious intent.  
 

It has previously been established that one of BFLs managers is convicted for running a scam defrauding little old ladies for 20 million USD.

Any doxing taking place is really just due diligence.
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December 12, 2012, 03:45:05 PM
 #205

If you fail to see it, then I'm left wondering what your experience has been with vendors like BFL's fab. In my experience, they misrepresent themselves so consistently that your only option is to not trust what they say. I think BFL's issue was then trusting a vendor they had no prior relationship with, a failure on their part, but one that is easy to see how it happened. I personally have been involved in a project with a pretty similar outcome, where our trust in such a vendor ended up with 0 product on launch day. That experience has it so that I always have checkpoints early and often in my projects with these vendors, and even with new employees.

BFL sure likes to blame the fab since being unknown they can't come here and defend themselves.

The conversation probably went like this:

BFL: We want to do a fully custom ASIC.
Fab: Have you ever done ASICs before?
BFL: Sure, we programmed FPGAs. That's the same thing, right?
Fab: Uh, no. Very different.
BFL: Well, how long will it take?
Fab: Someone with experience can do it in 6 months, but since this is your first attempt, expect 1-2 years.
BFL: Ok, great, thanks.

BFL to public: We'll have a finished product in 6 months, guaranteed! The fab said so.

Buy & Hold
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December 12, 2012, 04:01:14 PM
 #206

Quote from: bfl_josh
Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem for a variety of reasons, so don't worry about that.

Translation: Chinese New Year won't introduce any unforseen delays, because we don't intend to release anything ever. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

There's an obvious and simple possible explanation why the Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem - their fab is not in China. Could be in USA or Europe.

Just confirmed by Josh:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update-4.html#post7983
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December 12, 2012, 04:02:55 PM
 #207

Quote from: bfl_josh
Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem for a variety of reasons, so don't worry about that.

Translation: Chinese New Year won't introduce any unforseen delays, because we don't intend to release anything ever. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

There's an obvious and simple possible explanation why the Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem - their fab is not in China. Could be in USA or Europe.

Just confirmed by Josh:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update-4.html#post7983

let's play a guessing game where the fab actually is.

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December 12, 2012, 04:04:12 PM
Last edit: December 12, 2012, 04:18:41 PM by PuertoLibre
 #208

Japan. (I say it with courageous certainty!)








Either that, or Thailand....

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miter_myles
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December 12, 2012, 04:11:48 PM
 #209

Quote from: bfl_josh
Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem for a variety of reasons, so don't worry about that.

Translation: Chinese New Year won't introduce any unforseen delays, because we don't intend to release anything ever. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

There's an obvious and simple possible explanation why the Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem - their fab is not in China. Could be in USA or Europe.

Just confirmed by Josh:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update-4.html#post7983

let's play a guessing game where the fab actually is.

now now - you have to waste time and figure out what that little piece of plastic is first before you advance to the next guessing game!

BTC - 1D7g5395bs7idApTx1KTXrfDW7JUgzx6Z5
LTC - LVFukQnCWUimBxZuXKqTVKy1L2Jb8kZasL
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December 12, 2012, 04:12:06 PM
 #210

I wonder where the foul mouthed BFL spokesdude has gone too. The silence is deafening. Hello? If you miss your daily quota of personal attacks and trolling accusations, this is going to reflect badly in your performance review under the "productivity" section. Please think of the children and save Christmas.

Are you so dense that you haven't figured it out yet?  I only come in here and whip up the natives when the BFL mania dies down.  Right now, it's a raging fire, you don't need my input.  The top 10+ threads in the hardware forum are all about BFL.  If things start dying down again, I'll post more.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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December 12, 2012, 04:15:26 PM
 #211

I wonder where the foul mouthed BFL spokesdude has gone too. The silence is deafening. Hello? If you miss your daily quota of personal attacks and trolling accusations, this is going to reflect badly in your performance review under the "productivity" section. Please think of the children and save Christmas.

Are you so dense that you haven't figured it out yet?  I only come in here and whip up the natives when the BFL mania dies down.  Right now, it's a raging fire, you don't need my input.  The top 10+ threads in the hardware forum are all about BFL.  If things start dying down again, I'll post more.


Pretty sure that is what usually is called trolling and there are board rules against trolling.
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December 12, 2012, 04:19:40 PM
 #212

No, trolling would be what CreativeX, Frizz, etc... do.  I respond to posts with verifiable information.  Trolling would involve posting false information to incite flames.  Fortunately for me, this forum is fertile ground for refuting lies and bullshit, so I don't need to resort to trolling.  I just need to go around correcting idiots.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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December 12, 2012, 04:19:48 PM
 #213

While  I agree that anonymity isn't a guaranteed right, and those that are proven to be scammers or child pornographers should be dox'd.  My only concern is of starting a trend of "jumping the gun".  While BFL has missed there projected dates, which could be for many reasons. I personally think it has just been a poorly managed project and this does not prove malicious intent.  

Fucking up is not cause for attacking people personally. If it were, then how many of us deserve the same fate?

Your assessment of BFL's actions is very charitable(calling them fuckups). For myself I fail to see how they could possibly believe they were going to ship finished products in 2012, yet as recently as last week Josh and others(Debbie) were still advising potential customers that they either still had a chance to ship in 2012 or that they had "scheduled shipments" in December of 2012 and January of 2013.

Given what we now know(which is only what BFL reps want us to know) I fail to see how this behavior can be labelled a "fuck up", but your millage may vary.  

I know that it is hard (as it was for me long ago) to see the distinction, unless you have fallen victim to prejudice (I refer to the literal meaning not it's connotation).   Once you've had someone try to ruin your life because they misunderstood, and assumed to know your intentions you become sensitive to it and try to keep it from happening to others.  
creativex
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December 12, 2012, 04:20:16 PM
 #214

I wonder where the foul mouthed BFL spokesdude has gone too. The silence is deafening. Hello? If you miss your daily quota of personal attacks and trolling accusations, this is going to reflect badly in your performance review under the "productivity" section. Please think of the children and save Christmas.

Are you so dense that you haven't figured it out yet?  I only come in here and whip up the natives when the BFL mania dies down.  Right now, it's a raging fire, you don't need my input.  The top 10+ threads in the hardware forum are all about BFL.  If things start dying down again, I'll post more.

...and they're mostly debates about whether BFL is staffed by idiots or thieves.

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December 12, 2012, 04:20:25 PM
 #215

Japan. (He says it with courageous certainty!)

Either that, or Thailand....

Japan would be the most logical choice to state that that's where the FAB is located, for come the middle of January it could be claimed that the chips are held up on some dock (tarmac) due to the package setting off a Geiger counter.

Post not quoted, but I have made the mistake before of accidentally doxxing individuals. Once, Josh was kind enough to bring one such dox episode to my attention, of which I concurred he was correct. Now knowing that doxxing can cause major harm, I will be more careful in that respect. Again, I currently have no ill feelings toward Diablo.

~Bruno K~

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December 12, 2012, 04:21:54 PM
 #216

I respond to posts with verifiable information.

 Roll Eyes
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December 12, 2012, 04:22:04 PM
 #217

Did he just overlook every time he trolled bASIC and Avalon on his company website?

Yes, he did....

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December 12, 2012, 04:23:04 PM
 #218

I wonder where the foul mouthed BFL spokesdude has gone too. The silence is deafening. Hello? If you miss your daily quota of personal attacks and trolling accusations, this is going to reflect badly in your performance review under the "productivity" section. Please think of the children and save Christmas.

Are you so dense that you haven't figured it out yet?  I only come in here and whip up the natives when the BFL mania dies down.  Right now, it's a raging fire, you don't need my input.  The top 10+ threads in the hardware forum are all about BFL.  If things start dying down again, I'll post more.

...and they're mostly debates about whether BFL is staffed by idiots or thieves.

You are one of my best workers Smiley  I appreciate you more than you know.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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December 12, 2012, 04:23:17 PM
 #219

While  I agree that anonymity isn't a guaranteed right, and those that are proven to be scammers or child pornographers should be dox'd.  My only concern is of starting a trend of "jumping the gun".  While BFL has missed there projected dates, which could be for many reasons. I personally think it has just been a poorly managed project and this does not prove malicious intent.  

Fucking up is not cause for attacking people personally. If it were, then how many of us deserve the same fate?

Your assessment of BFL's actions is very charitable(calling them fuckups). For myself I fail to see how they could possibly believe they were going to ship finished products in 2012, yet as recently as last week Josh and others(Debbie) were still advising potential customers that they either still had a chance to ship in 2012 or that they had "scheduled shipments" in December of 2012 and January of 2013.

Given what we now know(which is only what BFL reps want us to know) I fail to see how this behavior can be labelled a "fuck up", but your millage may vary.  

I know that it is hard (as it was for me long ago) to see the distinction, unless you have fallen victim to prejudice (I refer to the literal meaning not it's connotation).   Once you've had someone try to ruin your life because they misunderstood, and assumed to know your intentions you become sensitive to it and try to keep it from happening to others.  
Words of wisdom. +1000

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December 12, 2012, 04:23:30 PM
 #220

Did he just overlook every time he trolled bASIC and Avalon on his company website?

Yes, he did....

Show me where I posted false information... good luck with that.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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