Transaction fee

[mda]

Now value of transaction fee in fiat is unpredictable scaring commerce and blocking the whole bitcoin development.
Linking the fee through 5-10 biggest exchanges to consumer price index would solve a lot of problems and end a lot of discussions.

[1714211969]

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[1714211969]

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[1714211969]

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[OmegaStarScream]

Now value of transaction fee in fiat is unpredictable scaring commerce and blocking the whole bitcoin development.
Linking the fee through 5-10 biggest exchanges to consumer price index would solve a lot of problems and end a lot of discussions.

What are you talking about here and what you mean "unpredictable"  ? Fees are already low comparing to the other payment methods (0.0001 BTC = 0.05$) .

[ranochigo]

The miners decides on the mining fee that they want to include into their block. You can try to convince miners to have the fees bind to the average fees but that probably would never work. Transaction fees are still very small compared to other payment methods.

[BurtW]

Fees are market driven.

Is that what you mean by "unpredictable"?

The exchange rate is also "unpredictable", even more so.

Do you want to try and artificially also set the exchange rate?

[amacar2]

After the bitcoin price get doubled we also see fee to get doubled. I know it is market driven but how much bitcoin used to be fee when price was at 1k.
Is that same like today 10000 satoshi ?

[bryant.coleman]

The miners decides on the mining fee that they want to include into their block. You can try to convince miners to have the fees bind to the average fees but that probably would never work. Transaction fees are still very small compared to other payment methods.

I had issues with the tx fee quite a few times. Normally I pay a uniform transaction fee of BTC0.0001, no matter how much the size of my transaction. Sometimes, the transaction can be quite big (10 KB or 15 KB), and on such occasions, I had to wait up to 48 hours to get the 3 confirmations. This can be a serious issue in the future. As Bitcoin gets older, the coins will be traded more and more, and the size will get bigger and bigger for each transaction. In such cases, the miners will simply refuse to transmit the transaction, if we are paying only the standard transaction fee of BTC0.0001.

[mda]

What are you talking about here and what you mean "unpredictable"  ? Fees are already low comparing to the other payment methods (0.0001 BTC = 0.05$) .

To pay from exchange it's 0.0005-0.001 BTC = $0.25-$0.5, for a rate of $5000/BTC it's $2.5-$5. Market rates could be manipulated and therefore the whole bitcoin game could be manipulated this way.

[ranochigo]

The miners decides on the mining fee that they want to include into their block. You can try to convince miners to have the fees bind to the average fees but that probably would never work. Transaction fees are still very small compared to other payment methods.

I had issues with the tx fee quite a few times. Normally I pay a uniform transaction fee of BTC0.0001, no matter how much the size of my transaction. Sometimes, the transaction can be quite big (10 KB or 15 KB), and on such occasions, I had to wait up to 48 hours to get the 3 confirmations. This can be a serious issue in the future. As Bitcoin gets older, the coins will be traded more and more, and the size will get bigger and bigger for each transaction. In such cases, the miners will simply refuse to transmit the transaction, if we are paying only the standard transaction fee of BTC0.0001.

That should happen. If your TX is 10kb, you should be paying 0.001BTC as a fee (unlikely that it's going to happen unless you hoard LOADS of UXTOs. Miners want to utilize the 1mb that they are allowed to have with the best efficiency. If you have a fee of 0.0001BTC with a 10kb size and someone else have 0.00002BTC fee and 1 kb size, they would most likely be considering to accept the 1kb TX first.

There are always exception however. If every single miner dislike your address/coins/transaction, they can choose not to mine it no matter how much you pay. That's why we don't like mining centralisation.

The size will not increase no matter how much times it is "spent". (I can't go technical here.)

What are you talking about here and what you mean "unpredictable"  ? Fees are already low comparing to the other payment methods (0.0001 BTC = 0.05$) .

To pay from exchange it's 0.0005-0.001 BTC = $0.25-$0.5, for a rate of $5000/BTC it's $2.5-$5.

Then stop using that exchange. The minimum fee for nodes to relay will get lowered if that happens. After sometime, less people would be willing to pay that high of a transaction fee and miners would start to mine transactions with lower TX fees.

[mda]

Then stop using that exchange. The minimum fee for nodes to relay will get lowered if that happens. After sometime, less people would be willing to pay that high of a transaction fee and miners would start to mine transactions with lower TX fees.

I'm afraid until 'miners would start to mine transactions with lower TX fees' the people would 'stop using that' bitcoin.

[ranochigo]

Then stop using that exchange. The minimum fee for nodes to relay will get lowered if that happens. After sometime, less people would be willing to pay that high of a transaction fee and miners would start to mine transactions with lower TX fees.

I'm afraid until 'miners would start to mine transactions with lower TX fees' the people would 'stop using that' bitcoin.

Lets face it. Bitcoin will never go from $400 to $5000 or even $1500 overnight. It would definitely take sometime and miners would start adjusting their minimum fee to accept. I've had 0.00001BTC/kb confirming smoothly recently, this shows that miners are accepting fees that are at that range. By the time price goes to $5000, block rewards would be lower. If the price rises, users won't be wanting to pay high fees and miners would want to maximise their revenue. Hence, they will start accepting lower fees in BTC.

[bryant.coleman]

The miners decides on the mining fee that they want to include into their block. You can try to convince miners to have the fees bind to the average fees but that probably would never work. Transaction fees are still very small compared to other payment methods.

I had issues with the tx fee quite a few times. Normally I pay a uniform transaction fee of BTC0.0001, no matter how much the size of my transaction. Sometimes, the transaction can be quite big (10 KB or 15 KB), and on such occasions, I had to wait up to 48 hours to get the 3 confirmations. This can be a serious issue in the future. As Bitcoin gets older, the coins will be traded more and more, and the size will get bigger and bigger for each transaction. In such cases, the miners will simply refuse to transmit the transaction, if we are paying only the standard transaction fee of BTC0.0001.

That should happen. If your TX is 10kb, you should be paying 0.001BTC as a fee (unlikely that it's going to happen unless you hoard LOADS of UXTOs. Miners want to utilize the 1mb that they are allowed to have with the best efficiency. If you have a fee of 0.0001BTC with a 10kb size and someone else have 0.00002BTC fee and 1 kb size, they would most likely be considering to accept the 1kb TX first.

It might have been understandable, if the 1 Mb limit was reached. But in all the cases, the miners refused to relay my transaction, despite the total size of all the transactions in that block remaining at 300 KB or 400 KB. This looks like absolute greed from their part. I was transacting just BTC0.10 or BTC0.15, so it was not logical for me to pay a higher fee.

[ranochigo]

The miners decides on the mining fee that they want to include into their block. You can try to convince miners to have the fees bind to the average fees but that probably would never work. Transaction fees are still very small compared to other payment methods.

I had issues with the tx fee quite a few times. Normally I pay a uniform transaction fee of BTC0.0001, no matter how much the size of my transaction. Sometimes, the transaction can be quite big (10 KB or 15 KB), and on such occasions, I had to wait up to 48 hours to get the 3 confirmations. This can be a serious issue in the future. As Bitcoin gets older, the coins will be traded more and more, and the size will get bigger and bigger for each transaction. In such cases, the miners will simply refuse to transmit the transaction, if we are paying only the standard transaction fee of BTC0.0001.

That should happen. If your TX is 10kb, you should be paying 0.001BTC as a fee (unlikely that it's going to happen unless you hoard LOADS of UXTOs. Miners want to utilize the 1mb that they are allowed to have with the best efficiency. If you have a fee of 0.0001BTC with a 10kb size and someone else have 0.00002BTC fee and 1 kb size, they would most likely be considering to accept the 1kb TX first.

It might have been understandable, if the 1 Mb limit was reached. But in all the cases, the miners refused to relay my transaction, despite the total size of all the transactions in that block remaining at 300 KB or 400 KB. This looks like absolute greed from their part. I was transacting just BTC0.10 or BTC0.15, so it was not logical for me to pay a higher fee.

I was under the impression that the default minimum relay fee was 0.00001BTC/kb but I forgot that it has been changed to 0.00005BTC/kb as default. Assuming that majority of the nodes doesn't change the settings, they will not relay your transaction. Without relaying your transactions, the miners would have less chances of seeing it. Nodes can change their settings to reduce load from mempool bloating. Miners have their own set of rules. If they were to accept TXes with less than 0.00001BTC/kb, they would be potentially including spam transactions into their block, causing blockchain bloating.

Sounds like you have way too many inputs to be having a 10kb TX. For a 0.1BTC TX(~$460), you can pay 0.001BTC ($0.46)fees or less. Try setting your payout frequency or consolidate your inputs often.

[saturn643]

What are you talking about here and what you mean "unpredictable"  ? Fees are already low comparing to the other payment methods (0.0001 BTC = 0.05$) .

To pay from exchange it's 0.0005-0.001 BTC = $0.25-$0.5, for a rate of $5000/BTC it's $2.5-$5. Market rates could be manipulated and therefore the whole bitcoin game could be manipulated this way.

Fees aren't fixed forever, fees can change. If the price starts going up, then fees should start going down. You might end up paying the same value (purchasing power), just that the number displayed is different. So yes you could be paying a few dollars in fees if BTC was at $5000 but if those few dollars can only buy the same amount of stuff that the few cents we pay now, then there is practically no difference. It's called inflation.

[Decoded]

They aren't "unpredictable". I'd go as far too say as it's easy to predict. You can check the mempool, find the txes that have the highest satoshi to byte ratio. Out you could use cointape. They do that for you.

[n2004al]

Now value of transaction fee in fiat is unpredictable scaring commerce and blocking the whole bitcoin development.
Linking the fee through 5-10 biggest exchanges to consumer price index would solve a lot of problems and end a lot of discussions.

What is the connection between the fees of fiat transactions and the development of bitcoin only one person can know. The author of main post. I try to make a possible connection between those two totally different worlds but cannot arrive. As i know bitcoin is produced and exist in a digital way. It is decentralized (so its produced by everyone will wont in every nook of the world). The fiat is paper or metal and its produced only by Central Banks in totally secrecy and only by few chosen people. The only place when they meet each other is the exchange. Where are both together but not in contact with each other, Because it is impossible. This is the whole story. And I when read it cannot find any kind of connection like that write by OP. So the only remaining thing to do for me is to ask the OP: Can you explain better what want to tell with your posts? Then, maybe will give some thoughts (if I will have such).

It would be a totally other thing if is talked about the transaction fee-s during the send of bitcoin. But even in this case I don't see any connection as such mentioned by OP. The bitcoin development is made by the developers and their work have nothing to do with the mentioned fee-s.

[pitham1]

Now value of transaction fee in fiat is unpredictable scaring commerce and blocking the whole bitcoin development.
Linking the fee through 5-10 biggest exchanges to consumer price index would solve a lot of problems and end a lot of discussions.

Fees are extremely low and have been revised periodically.
The fees weren't the same when Bitcoin was priced at $1 and when it was priced at $1000. 

[Betwrong]

Then stop using that exchange. The minimum fee for nodes to relay will get lowered if that happens. After sometime, less people would be willing to pay that high of a transaction fee and miners would start to mine transactions with lower TX fees.

I'm afraid until 'miners would start to mine transactions with lower TX fees' the people would 'stop using that' bitcoin.

Lets face it. Bitcoin will never go from $400 to $5000 or even $1500 overnight. It would definitely take sometime and miners would start adjusting their minimum fee to accept. I've had 0.00001BTC/kb confirming smoothly recently, this shows that miners are accepting fees that are at that range. By the time price goes to $5000, block rewards would be lower. If the price rises, users won't be wanting to pay high fees and miners would want to maximise their revenue. Hence, they will start accepting lower fees in BTC.

I agree, that's why it is called the market: whatever "unpredictable" happens the market will adjust to it.

I think the value of transaction fee in fiat is the least thing we should worry about.

[mobnepal]

Now value of transaction fee in fiat is unpredictable scaring commerce and blocking the whole bitcoin development.
Linking the fee through 5-10 biggest exchanges to consumer price index would solve a lot of problems and end a lot of discussions.

Fees are extremely low and have been revised periodically.
The fees weren't the same when Bitcoin was priced at $1 and when it was priced at $1000. 

But why fee is now double in blockchain as price is not even near 1k. I think this increment is unncessary for now with only 450 range.

[ranochigo]

Now value of transaction fee in fiat is unpredictable scaring commerce and blocking the whole bitcoin development.
Linking the fee through 5-10 biggest exchanges to consumer price index would solve a lot of problems and end a lot of discussions.

Fees are extremely low and have been revised periodically.
The fees weren't the same when Bitcoin was priced at $1 and when it was priced at $1000. 

But why fee is now double in blockchain as price is not even near 1k. I think this increment is unncessary for now with only 450 range.

Miner makes the last call, they can choose to exclude whichever TX they want. Transaction volume is another factor, a block can only have maximum, 1mb of TX and a limited sigops. Attackers can use these factors to exploit and slow down transaction confirmation and force users to pay a higher fee. A block size increase would make the attack less effective/more expensive.

[calkob]

I understand what your saying, sometimes its hard to know what fee to pay to get your transaction into the next block, yeah 

Pick a fee that you are happy to pay and stick with it every time, i usually pay a fee of 0.0003 which usually gets confirmed pretty quick.  like if you just include it in the price off what your paying then you soon get used to it.  its a small price to pay to be free from the financial banksters in my opinion, i now own my own money........