You guys need to fix the ban evasion issue before making another forum.

[TheGr33k]

A Question from me why should he get banned just for saying to fix this issue .. though its not a issue its a problem to forum .
he is just sharing his idea , his idea is good but its hard .

Please refrain from quoting posts that are not relevant or helpful to the main discussion in this thread. Also make sure to report it so we can focus attention on the important issues and find effective solutions for them.

To all the people that clearly have personal issues with me, I'd rather just take my small amount of effort to just remove them from my mind and just concentrate on my long term goals. They are giving me consent to upset them that bad to the point that they have to click on my thread that no one forced them to click on and make an offensive off-topic post which is also an indication that they'd rather focus their attention on insiginificant people on the internet rather than focus on more important things like paying their bills to keep a roof over their head. Oh well. That's them. Not my problem.

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[Heutenamos]

so we can focus attention on the important issues and find effective solutions for them.

what makes you think that you are doing what you are thinking/posting ? Ban isn't such an issue it's just irritating and is being well moderated by the staff with the help of some active users.

What you are saying could have had more effect if it was said by some trusted or very helpful guy on the forum.Luckily Hilarious&co has revealed your identity to the forum.

[TheGr33k]

Didn't read that, since you quoted a post that was off topic. Stay on topic.

Anyway, I'd rather focus my attention on the discussion here so if you're one of the people that just came to be offensive and not actually discuss the topic, welcome to my ignore list. Nothing personal. Have a good one.

[Heutenamos]

Didn't read that, since you quoted a post that was off topic. Stay on topic.

Anyway, I'd rather focus my attention on the discussion here so if you're one of the people that just came to be offensive and not actually discuss the topic, welcome to my ignore list. Nothing personal. Have a good one.

I am not here to offence/accuse you and neither doing it satisfies me by any means but you didn't cared to read what i said about the Ban cause you weren't able to handle your own trust and behavior when someone placed it in front of you.

your ignore list is nothing great than others and people don't think of it before posting anything about you.

[TheGr33k]

There are a few ways you could attempt to prevent ban evasion. I have made a comparison for you.
IP Ban:

• Pros:
  • Really easy to do
• Cons:
  
  • May ban more than just one user due to shared IPs or dynamic IP addresses
  • People can just use proxies and pay the fee

Linguistic Analysis to determine alts

• Pros
  • Could easily identify potential alts
• Cons
  • Could be really hard to program decently well
  • Could result in a lot of false positives because people raised in similar environments will typically speak and write the same way
  • People who change their writing styles (which is actually a lot harder than you think it would be) would be able to evade this
  • Some users might not have enough posts to have enough data to analyze (e.g. newly created accounts)

Blockchain analysis program to determine alts

• Pros
  • Would be mostly definitive proof of an alt
• Cons
  • Might be a little hard to write to have the program distinguish between an address posted by a user and one that a person mentions to talk about something
  • Mixers and coinjoin transactions circumvent this

See the problem with all of these is that they cannot prevent and catch all ban evaders. As you said so yourself, if there is a will, there's a way, and those ban evading will find a way to circumvent all of those techniques.

It's a lot to consider. My only main concern here with the whole sign up situations is that people should probably sign up to a site that deals in money with their first and last legal names since people claim Bitcoin is not anonymous. Why not make it 100% transparent? After all, doxxing is allowed on this site and it'd sure clear the scamming situations if we all sign up with our legal names and credit cards.

Since we only have one name in real life, that'd help the ban evasion issue

[Xian01]

Please refrain from quoting posts that are not relevant or helpful to the main discussion in this thread.

... but ban evasion is not a worthwhile or trivial issue to fully resolve for these forums, therefore, this entire thread should be deleted.

I'd rather just take my small amount of effort to just remove them from my mind and just concentrate on my long term goals

Fixing Bitcointalk is a part of your long term goals ?

Dude... You are Sisyphus incarnate.

[TheGr33k]

How could they fix the ban evasion issues ?
the use can create a new account by using proxy (if you are thinking that you can track the evader by the IP)
or he can use proxy with new computer , the user can refresh and delete his previous cookies to remain anonymous.
Its really hard to fix this issue if i am not wrong ?

Anything is possible. Where there's a will, there's a way and they're not having the will so how can there even be a way with no will? They don't even care to ban scammers. According to a  member's comment, scamming isn't against the rules because if they cared to stop it, they would have done it by now. The site is constantly being screen capped and web captured.

It's little things like this that honestly worry me that this site will be taken down and I don't want it to at all.

You say "everything is possible" but not really give out a concrete way to do it. And the reality of things is: There's no way to stop people from circumventing new bans. I mean it's bad enough already that if you want to create an account anonymously with Tor you need to pay BTC because the tor node was previously banned.
The only way would be to close registrations and start an invite-only policy, but this would be against the site's interest since you would lose lots of traffic, and even then, scammers would end up finding invitations.

Let's not ruin this great forum for the legit users because of the bad user's fault.

Invite only is going to kill the bitcoin economy which is more important than all these forum issues. Keep in mind that if no one is using a coin, the coin will eventually die.

While users can register every minute of the day to get another account, there is no way they can scam if people are just aware of the scam possibilities.
Its not the forums fault that they got scammed, they should be aware of how the stuff works before getting into a deal. If the deal is something suspicious, they better cancel it or take their own risk.

I think I just came up with a better way to solve this: We could start signing up with our first and last legal names and credit card info. Doxxing is allowed, so why not save a doxxer's trouble by just signing up with social security numbers, and other legal information? We only have one legal name so this will actually help the ban evasion issue by signing up with credit cards, social security numbers, legal names, home addresses, and so on. Again, if doxxing is allowed then we might as well just start doxxing everyone. It'll save us a lot of time in the end on scammers. If you want to keep anonymous and not have something like credit card info linked up then that probably means you have something to hide. It's just the way I see it.

[Xian01]

I think I just came up with a better way to solve this: We could start signing up with our first and last legal names and credit card info. Doxxing is allowed, so why not save a doxxer's trouble by just signing up with social security numbers, and other legal information? We only have one legal name so this will actually help the ban evasion issue by signing up with credit cards, social security numbers, legal names, home addresses, and so on. Again, if doxxing is allowed then we might as well just start doxxing everyone. It'll save us a lot of time in the end on scammers. If you want to keep anonymous and not have something like credit card info linked up then that probably means you have something to hide. It's just the way I see it.

[TheGr33k]

Let's not ruin this great forum for the legit users because of the bad user's fault.

One more thing: It wouldn't be ruining it if they had nothing to hide. Some Bitcoin users really don't mind showing their actual face. For the ones that have stolen photos, who is to say? Stealing identity is against the law. Everyone here wants to make Bitcoin seem innocent. Well, here's an opportunity to do so which is to firstly be upfront about who you are. I'm hoping to talk to the creator of Technacoin next 2 weeks from now to hopefully add that to our new forum. It'll definitely be more transparent and professional.

[TheGr33k]

New forum ?
Means bitcointalk will close ?
What is new forum link ?

There's a new forum for BitcoinTalk coming out I think with a new url I guess but if it's going to be exactly the same, you might as well not even make it if it's just going to have a "slightly better appearance".

[Snorek]

There are a few ways you could attempt to prevent ban evasion. I have made a comparison for you.
IP Ban:

• Pros:
  • Really easy to do
• Cons:
  
  • May ban more than just one user due to shared IPs or dynamic IP addresses
  • People can just use proxies and pay the fee

Linguistic Analysis to determine alts

• Pros
  • Could easily identify potential alts
• Cons
  • Could be really hard to program decently well
  • Could result in a lot of false positives because people raised in similar environments will typically speak and write the same way
  • People who change their writing styles (which is actually a lot harder than you think it would be) would be able to evade this
  • Some users might not have enough posts to have enough data to analyze (e.g. newly created accounts)

Blockchain analysis program to determine alts

• Pros
  • Would be mostly definitive proof of an alt
• Cons
  • Might be a little hard to write to have the program distinguish between an address posted by a user and one that a person mentions to talk about something
  • Mixers and coinjoin transactions circumvent this

See the problem with all of these is that they cannot prevent and catch all ban evaders. As you said so yourself, if there is a will, there's a way, and those ban evading will find a way to circumvent all of those techniques.

None of these methods are even remotely good at determining potential ban evasion in process.

1. IP bans are blast from the past, IPs are expendable and you can have unlimited number of them.
2. Method number 2 offers not enough proof and it is not definitive - it is pure speculation, furthermore I don't believe that we can have bot/script doing this.
3. Potentially the best out of these 3. But still not ideal and could be abused, can backfire and it is just be not accurate to the point you could ban people after comparing addresses.

[achow101]

None of these methods are even remotely good at determining potential ban evasion in process.

1. IP bans are blast from the past, IPs are expendable and you can have unlimited number of them.
2. Method number 2 offers not enough proof and it is not definitive - it is pure speculation, furthermore I don't believe that we can have bot/script doing this.
3. Potentially the best out of these 3. But still not ideal and could be abused, can backfire and it is just be not accurate to the point you could ban people after comparing addresses.

But these are pretty much the only methods, mostly the third one, that are used to determine alts. If you can think of anything better go for it.

This also illustrates how you can't possibly prevent people from evading bans, there simply aren't any truly effective methods of determining alts.

BTW the third method checks to see if two addresses posted by to different accounts were used in the sand transaction thus mostly proving that they are the same person since usually only the only time two addresses a can sign a transaction is if the same person owns both private keys. The way around this is to use coin join transactions.

[TheGr33k]

There are a few ways you could attempt to prevent ban evasion. I have made a comparison for you.
IP Ban:

• Pros:
  • Really easy to do
• Cons:
  
  • May ban more than just one user due to shared IPs or dynamic IP addresses
  • People can just use proxies and pay the fee

Linguistic Analysis to determine alts

• Pros
  • Could easily identify potential alts
• Cons
  • Could be really hard to program decently well
  • Could result in a lot of false positives because people raised in similar environments will typically speak and write the same way
  • People who change their writing styles (which is actually a lot harder than you think it would be) would be able to evade this
  • Some users might not have enough posts to have enough data to analyze (e.g. newly created accounts)

Blockchain analysis program to determine alts

• Pros
  • Would be mostly definitive proof of an alt
• Cons
  • Might be a little hard to write to have the program distinguish between an address posted by a user and one that a person mentions to talk about something
  • Mixers and coinjoin transactions circumvent this

See the problem with all of these is that they cannot prevent and catch all ban evaders. As you said so yourself, if there is a will, there's a way, and those ban evading will find a way to circumvent all of those techniques.

None of these methods are even remotely good at determining potential ban evasion in process.

1. IP bans are blast from the past, IPs are expendable and you can have unlimited number of them.
2. Method number 2 offers not enough proof and it is not definitive - it is pure speculation, furthermore I don't believe that we can have bot/script doing this.
3. Potentially the best out of these 3. But still not ideal and could be abused, can backfire and it is just be not accurate to the point you could ban people after comparing addresses.

I personally somewhat favored the ideas but if you don't like them then here's more: Signing up with full legal names, SSN and credit card information.

1. It'll stop the ban evasions since we are all born with only one legal name.

2. People who doxx each other can save time from doxxing people if the moderators have all the documents on a user they need.

3. It'll stop scammers if we know their first and last legal names to confidently put them behind bars

Everyone says Bitcoin is not anonymous. Let's make it 100% transparent then if you all really have nothing to hide.

[minifrij]

I personally somewhat favored the ideas but if you don't like them then here's more: Signing up with full legal names, SSN and credit card information.

1. It'll stop the ban evasions since we are all born with only one legal name.

...

3. It'll stop scammers if we know their first and last legal names to confidently put them behind bars

The forum doesn't know that what you input is real, and there would be no authority for making people put in the correct name. What would happen if I put in the name John Doe? It's of course not my real name, though how would the forum know? Also, take a look at services such as fakena.me. What would stop people using services such as those to generate a fake name, details and SSN? Also, a lot of people don't own a credit card. Until very recently I didn't even own a bank account, and I have no intentions to get a credit card any time soon. Would that make me invalid and unavailable for registering to this site?

To continue with this bit, as I'm sure a lot of people here know, the forum's security isn't perfect. There have been several hacks which have resulted in accounts being compromised and information being stolen. Could you imagine if this happened with people's actual, private information?

Everyone says Bitcoin is not anonymous. Let's make it 100% transparent then if you all really have nothing to hide.

I have nothing to hide whatsoever. That doesn't mean that I want to give out my personal information to everyone. I value my privacy, which is part of the reason I use VPNs and Bitcoin so much.

As I'm sure has already been said, ban evasion isn't ever going to stop. No matter what we put in the way to try and stop it, people will find a way around. That's human nature. The best we can do is just flag alts when we see them and continue on with the regular.

[TheGr33k]

Also everyone: Technacoin is making sure their upcoming Bitcoin forum has members signing up with legal names, SSN and credit card info so you can be sure that our forum will be much more professional.

[Lauda]

Also everyone: Technacoin is making sure their upcoming Bitcoin forum has members signing up with legal names, SSN and credit card info so you can be sure that our forum will be much more professional.

That is a stupid move at best. Just wait until someone hacks it, and they will pretty quickly judging by the intelligence of the people who are making(going to run) the forum.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Also everyone: Technacoin is making sure their upcoming Bitcoin forum has members signing up with legal names, SSN and credit card info so you can be sure that our forum will be much more professional.

There's a site I won't be visiting.   Good deal for the both of us.

[minifrij]

Also everyone: Technacoin is making sure their upcoming Bitcoin forum has members signing up with legal names, SSN and credit card info so you can be sure that our forum will be much more professional.

All I can say is, good luck creating a forum on an anonymous currency where you need more information than Paypal in order to create an account. Lauda pretty much says everything else I could want to.

[TheGr33k]

Also everyone: Technacoin is making sure their upcoming Bitcoin forum has members signing up with legal names, SSN and credit card info so you can be sure that our forum will be much more professional.

There's a site I won't be visiting.   Good deal for the both of us.

SS is to prevent money laundering. We're just trying to protect people from scammers and ban evaders. We want to be 100% professional and if you hide your legal name, you're probably trying to hide something.


Here on BitcoinTalk, I don't attempt to use it to make real money these days so I have every right to stay anonymous but the ones that are trying to make some significant cash here and there should probably be upfront about who they are. If you're a good person, we can be sure you have nothing to hide. I once use to think anonymity was good but now I'm thinking there's no point to it unless you're trying to hide something negative about you. Doxxing is allowed here, so we might as well just doxx everyone.

[Xian01]

Also everyone: Technacoin is making sure their upcoming Bitcoin forum has members signing up with legal names, SSN and credit card info so you can be sure that our forum will be much more professional.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention; will be avoiding the site on principle.