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Author Topic: ★ BTC-RAFFLE.COM ★▐ Provably Fair ▐ Referral System ▐ Player VS Player ▐  (Read 4155 times)
btc-raffle.com
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January 02, 2016, 10:47:24 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2016, 07:01:18 PM by btc-raffle.com
 #1

Today we would like to announce our new provably fair system, and referral system at http://btc-raffle.com

How it works.

After the second player joins a round, the round starts and the site will start generating lucky numbers by the hash of latest bitcoin transaction and total pot of each round(in satoshi). It is generated for every second. The hashes shown on the page are in realtime with bitcoin network. The final lucky number is the one after 10-second is up. As you can see, the hash of bitcoin transaction is totally unpredictable and the lucky number is generated after each round is finished. No one on the earth can know the lucky number before round ends.

How to verify.

It's pretty straightforward. Use the following script to verify the generated lucky number.

Code:

var crypto = require('crypto');
function LuckyNumberGenerator (transactionhash, totalpot) {
    
    //create HMAC using server seed as key and client seed as message
    var hash = crypto.createHmac('sha512', transactionhash).update(totalpot).digest('hex');
    
    var index = 0;
    
    var lucky = parseInt(hash.substring(index * 5, index * 5 + 5), 16);
    
    //keep grabbing characters from the hash while greater than
    while (lucky >= Math.pow(10, 6)) {
        index++;
        lucky = parseInt(hash.substring(index * 5, index * 5 + 5), 16);
        
        //if we reach the end of the hash, just default to highest number
        if (index * 5 + 5 > 128) {
            lucky =99.99;
            break;
        }
    }
    
    lucky %= Math.pow(10, 4);
    
    return lucky + 1; //lucky number is from 1 to 10000;
}
//example:
                            console.log(LuckyNumberGenerator('1227fe9d6ea50637d42fb169c6b32f4df693098cfda9517e28ed3e31798fd8a8', 880000));




How Our Referral System Works

Once you are logged into the site click your profile button at the top right side of the site. Then click "Referral" On this page you will see your referral link also the stats of your referrals. Each time one of your referrals place a bet on the site you will earn 1% of the total bet. This last for life.
This is a 100% site revenue commission. (Meaning you take 100% of what we make) We make nothing on referrals we give our members 100%.


Provably Fair
Fast Deposits (Only 1 confirm)
Instant Auto Withdraws
New Raffle Every 10 Seconds
Members Live Chat
Admin Private Support Chat
Player VS Player (Not gambling against the house like every other site)


 
Join our FREE GIVEAWAY @
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1314647.0

Video Demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RTjeQbHtDk&feature=youtu.be


If you have any suggestions or ideas on how to improve the site please let us know.


Code:
Change Log

1/4/2016 1.0 Set every raffle from 30 seconds to 10 Seconds

1/5/2016 1.1 Added Client Seed to provably fair system







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January 03, 2016, 03:51:12 AM
Last edit: January 03, 2016, 06:56:52 AM by gamblebuilder
 #2

I am so glad that I lead a team to built this site and it is LIVE.  Grin

The team has put some much time and energy for the site. We also have a bounty for those who can help us build a better, more secure site.

The new provably fair is unbeatable fair. And the new referral system can help our members make more btc.
The txid the site is using for provably fair is synced with bitcoin network. You can compare the hashes in real time with blockchain.info. We don't and can't pick any txid.

We will add more features in the near future. If you have good ideas, please let us know. We also have bounty for good ideas too.





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January 03, 2016, 08:01:26 AM
 #3

OK I have tried this site and I must that this is an excellent site I have to say. Simple and neat design gives you a comfortable feeling to play. Players are quite competitive there actually! Deposits are credited after one confirmation and withdrawals are instantly so there is nothing to worry at all Grin I love the concept of this site a lot so I hope that people will promote this as much as they can! BTW, I just won 0.003 BTC from it Grin  It's really easy to win I have to say! If you have a chance, try it and you won't regret.

Regards
zodiac3011
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January 03, 2016, 10:27:52 PM
 #4

OK I have tried this site and I must that this is an excellent site I have to say. Simple and neat design gives you a comfortable feeling to play. Players are quite competitive there actually! Deposits are credited after one confirmation and withdrawals are instantly so there is nothing to worry at all Grin I love the concept of this site a lot so I hope that people will promote this as much as they can! BTW, I just won 0.003 BTC from it Grin  It's really easy to win I have to say! If you have a chance, try it and you won't regret.

Regards
zodiac3011

Congrats on your earnings. Hope to see you back soon again.
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January 03, 2016, 10:59:05 PM
 #5

The previous thread is to be locked, so I hope we can continue the discussion here.

Unfortunately the new system also does not offer provable fairness and potentially allows even players to cheat. This stems from the fact that the game result is generated from the number of satoshis in the pot and the hash of the last received transaction at the end of each round. Transactions can be generated in advance and later broadcast by anyone, which consequently allows the winner to be chosen at least for rounds with few players. A better explanation by another user can be found here:

The problem is that the hash of a bitcoin transaction is entirely predictable. I can pre-generate thousands of them and have them ready for broadcasting. Then I pick a bunch that make my ticket win and broadcast them at just the right time. If I was you, I could then pick one of them and claim that it was "the last bitcoin transaction". In other words your system isn't provably fair at all. It's exploitable by players, and cheatable by yourself.

I also urge you once again to start using SSL. Basic SSL certificates can be purchased for less than $5 per year or can even be obtained for free from Let's Encrypt, albeit with some effort. It is irresponsible to send your players' information in the clear, especially when money is on the line.

That being said, I do think it is laudable that you have recognised the that your previous system was not provably fair and are attempting to make improvements.
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January 03, 2016, 11:06:29 PM
 #6

The previous thread is to be locked, so I hope we can continue the discussion here.

Unfortunately the new system also does not offer provable fairness and potentially allows even players to cheat. This stems from the fact that the game result is generated from the number of satoshis in the pot and the hash of the last received transaction at the end of each round. Transactions can be generated in advance and later broadcast by anyone, which consequently allows the winner to be chosen at least for rounds with few players. A better explanation by another user can be found here:

The problem is that the hash of a bitcoin transaction is entirely predictable. I can pre-generate thousands of them and have them ready for broadcasting. Then I pick a bunch that make my ticket win and broadcast them at just the right time. If I was you, I could then pick one of them and claim that it was "the last bitcoin transaction". In other words your system isn't provably fair at all. It's exploitable by players, and cheatable by yourself.

I also urge you once again to start using SSL. Basic SSL certificates can be purchased for less than $5 per year or can even be obtained for free from Let's Encrypt, albeit with some effort. It is irresponsible to send your players' information in the clear, especially when money is on the line.

That being said, I do think it is laudable that you have recognised the that your previous system was not provably fair and are attempting to make improvements.


Before you make false accusations please at least understand how our system works.

We take the hashes live from blockchain we time stamp the winning hash meaning there is NO way to use pre-generated hashes.
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January 03, 2016, 11:18:17 PM
 #7

Before you make false accusations please at least understand how our system works.

We take the hashes live from blockchain we time stamp the winning hash meaning there is NO way to use pre-generated hashes.

The first I heard of your site was when you turned up on the pevpot thread making accusations that they were cheating their players.

I checked out your site and found that it isn't provably fair, whereas pevpot *is*. We went over this in detail on the pevpot thread.

I have tried numerous times on that thread to get you to understand the problem, but both you and the "developer" you used fail to grasp the concept.

I can't tell whether you're leaving the site how it is because you're incapable of understanding what's wrong with it or because you like having the option of cheating your players. I guess it doesn't matter which of the two it is - either way it would be a mistake for anyone to trust your site.

Please either fix the site so that it is provably fair OR stop claiming that it is provably fair. Come on, do the right thing here.

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January 03, 2016, 11:22:51 PM
 #8

Before you make false accusations please at least understand how our system works.

We take the hashes live from blockchain we time stamp the winning hash meaning there is NO way to use pre-generated hashes.

The first I heard of your site was when you turned up on the pevpot thread making accusations that they were cheating their players.

I checked out your site and found that it isn't provably fair, whereas pevpot *is*. We went over this in detail on the pevpot thread.

I have tried numerous times on that thread to get you to understand the problem, but both you and the "developer" you used fail to grasp the concept.

I can't tell whether you're leaving the site how it is because you're incapable of understanding what's wrong with it or because you like having the option of cheating your players. I guess it doesn't matter which of the two it is - either way it would be a mistake for anyone to trust your site.

Please either fix the site so that it is provably fair OR stop claiming that it is provably fair. Come on, do the right thing here.


You are just straight out lying now, you are claiming we can use pre-generated hashes. This is 100% FALSE

We have tried to explain to you many times how our system works, but it seems like you are incompetent of understanding it.
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January 04, 2016, 03:30:31 AM
 #9

Vouch, used this site before & he gave me a few dollars to start.
Lots of games going on and there's no need to wait weeks to find out if you won.
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January 04, 2016, 04:10:31 AM
 #10

You are just straight out lying now, you are claiming we can use pre-generated hashes. This is 100% FALSE

Care to explain why you couldn't use pre-generated hashes? You would just need to broadcast them shortly before the 30 second timeout.

We have tried to explain to you many times how our system works, but it seems like you are incompetent of understanding it.

I understand it just fine. It isn't provably fair.

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January 04, 2016, 08:24:28 AM
Last edit: January 04, 2016, 08:49:12 AM by btc-raffle.com
 #11

You are just straight out lying now, you are claiming we can use pre-generated hashes. This is 100% FALSE

Care to explain why you couldn't use pre-generated hashes? You would just need to broadcast them shortly before the 30 second timeout.

We have tried to explain to you many times how our system works, but it seems like you are incompetent of understanding it.

I understand it just fine. It isn't provably fair.

We would first have to pay the 0.001 fee from blockchain then we would also need know the second it would be on blockchain. As you can see this is impossible.

Please post it public how the system is not provably fair, because just saying it means nothing.

If you can show us any real proof i will gladly say your right, besides that you just sound like a troll. Clearly with the motivation to make us look bad and to make our competitor look good.
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January 04, 2016, 09:10:44 AM
 #12

So first you were saying it was IMPOSSIBLE for you to use pregenerated hashes:

You are just straight out lying now, you are claiming we can use pre-generated hashes. This is 100% FALSE

And now you are saying that it is possible so long as you are willing to pay a few dust fees?

We would first have to pay the 0.001 fee from blockchain then we would also need know the second it would be on blockchain.

It takes less than a second to get a transaction onto blockchain.info, so you know which second it will be there - it's the same second as you sent it to them.

So it seems this attack has gone from "impossible, 100% false" to "anyone can do it for 0.0001 BTC". Hmmm.

As you can see this is impossible.

Which bit is impossible? Affording the fee? Or sending a transaction at the right time?

Please post it public how the system is not provably fair, because just saying it means nothing.

OK. One more time:

The system is not provably fair because the site can affect the outcome of the game after the tickets have been bought by broadcasting pregenerated transactions at the right time, and deliberately selecting that transaction as the one that affects the selection of the winning ticket.

If you can show us any real proof i will gladly say your right, besides that you just sound like a troll. Clearly with the motivation to make us look bad and to make our competitor look good.

You want to see proof of what, exactly? Here are the main points:

1) you can generate transactions without broadcasting them
2) you can check the txid of those transactions before you broadcast them
3) once you know the number of satoshis bet, you can figure out which ticket would win for each transaction
4) so you can find out which of your 100 pregenerated transactions would make you win if it was picked
5) it takes less than a second to get a transaction picked up by blockchain.info
6) you have no way of proving which was the last transaction you saw on blockchain.info after the 30 seconds is up
7) you can pick any transaction that was shown on blockchain.info in the relevant second

Can you tell me which of those 7 points you need proof of? They all seem self-evident to me.

I have no reason to make any site look good. My interest is in making sure that sites which claim to be provably fair actually are. And yours isn't.

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January 04, 2016, 09:37:37 AM
 #13


1) you can generate transactions without broadcasting them
Answer False
2) you can check the txid of those transactions before you broadcast them
Answer False
3) once you know the number of satoshis bet, you can figure out which ticket would win for each transaction
Answer False
4) so you can find out which of your 100 pregenerated transactions would make you win if it was picked
Answer False
5) it takes less than a second to get a transaction picked up by blockchain.info
Answer False
6) you have no way of proving which was the last transaction you saw on blockchain.info after the 30 seconds is up
Answer False
7) you can pick any transaction that was shown on blockchain.info in the relevant second
Answer False


Now let me try once again to explain in layman's terms for you, we cannot predict when the last second will be, as when each person joins the game it resets back to 10 seconds.

Only with magic can we be so lucky to have the site use said transaction.

This also is all happening within seconds do you think we are super computers who can take the amount of satoshis know exactly when the game is going to end compute all that with in seconds oh and get super lucky with magic and get our transaction on the exact second the game ends?

You sir are a bad troll.











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January 04, 2016, 11:15:19 AM
 #14

I just joined the chat contest and won $0.08 (by replying twice in the chat box). I have been paid as well and am happy to be a part of this chat contest. The prize one can win is between $0.02-$1.

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January 04, 2016, 11:46:51 AM
 #15

1) you can generate transactions without broadcasting them
Answer False

Why do you believe this is not possible? How do you think cold wallets and offline signing work?

Here is a transaction that has not been broadcast in hex form:

Code:
010000000183e3fe15f5874dae133b8ae1ed5bbeae58f0bf6beecd1ffb4fed8c34f2bfb455010000008a473044022053281a29d107f6ee3c5e0673678c4d245965711dd83321bc2b2cdf5e01f788f6022059219abc99604ca65950776a7bd45c66debb1f0185a9d709c581cdcf169bbd32014104b41d52634460912ca6ca49054a2aaee57c7c3ca1deb00c14984a1087c332b11de9d4098b3147563166b7ffcfd1adbff91320a1312ab1cd843e710379c0a031c7ffffffff0180969800000000001976a91437058d142a1620817b5641534a79edd20013086188ac00000000

In a real attack we would generate many more, for example 100, instead of just one.



2) you can check the txid of those transactions before you broadcast them
Answer False

The transaction ID of the above transaction is fa3c30c7821cdff2b191468bd5e9314f82d21d8dd27bc5e4548fcf4c512a2cb5. Note that it remains not broadcast yet we have just calculated its transaction ID. We can easily calculate the transaction ID for all of the unbroadcast transactions we generated in the previous step.



3) once you know the number of satoshis bet, you can figure out which ticket would win for each transaction
Answer False

You do not know how to calculate the winning ticket on your own site? The necessary code was given by yourself in the first post in this thread and on your site's FAQ.

All we have to do is input the hash of the transaction we just generated—but still have not broadcast—and the total number of satoshi (let us assume 60.000 satoshi for example) in the pot into the LuckyNumberGenerator function:

Code:
function LuckyNumberGenerator (transactionhash, totalpot) {
   // ...
}

var hash = 'fa3c30c7821cdff2b191468bd5e9314f82d21d8dd27bc5e4548fcf4c512a2cb5j',
    totalpot = 60000;

var result = LuckyNumberGenerator(hash, totalpot)



4) so you can find out which of your 100 pregenerated transactions would make you win if it was picked
Answer False

Let's assume we want the player with the tickets from 6668 to 8334 to win. The previous code example can easily be expanded upon to find all the winning transactions among the one:

Code:
function LuckyNumberGenerator (transactionhash, totalpot) {
   // ...
}

var hashes = ['fa3c30c7821cdff2b191468bd5e9314f82d21d8dd27bc5e4548fcf4c512a2cb5j', /* ... */ ],
    totalpot = 60000,
    firstTicket = 6668,
    lastTicket = 8334;

var winners = []

for (var i = 0; i < hashes.length; i++) {
  var result = LuckyNumberGenerator(hashes[i], totalpot)
  if (result >= firstTicket && result <= lastTicket) winners.push(hashes[i])
}

console.log('The winning hashes are:', winners)

Because tickets 6668 through 8334 are 16.66 % of all tickets, we can expect approximately 16 of our 100 pregenerated transactions to cause us to win.



5) it takes less than a second to get a transaction picked up by blockchain.info
Answer False

Transactions can absolutely propagate in less than a second, especially to a well-connected node like blockchain.info. Because cheating in the manner I am describing is possible even with longer propagation times as long as they are somewhat predictable I will not argue this point, however.



6) you have no way of proving which was the last transaction you saw on blockchain.info after the 30 seconds is up
Answer False

7) you can pick any transaction that was shown on blockchain.info in the relevant second
Answer False

The order in which you saw the last transactions is completely meaningless as another node (one of your players trying to verify the fairness of your game, for example) might receive the same transactions in a completely different order than blockchain.info. As transactions do not have timestamps it is not possible to verify that the house did not pick a more favourable transaction that arrived at roughly the same time—although not last.

And even if transactions did have timestamps (again: they do not) it would be easy for an attacker to simply send several winning transactions to blockchain.info right before the winning ticket is chosen.

If you know the winner will be chosen in 10 seconds you can simply start broadcasting one of the 16 winning transactions we generated earlier every tenth of a second starting in 9 seconds. This virtually guarantees that the ticket you want is the winner.



Now let me try once again to explain in layman's terms for you, we cannot predict when the last second will be, as when each person joins the game it resets back to 10 seconds.

Another player joining before the winner is chosen is not a problem as you now have an additional 10 seconds to start your calculations anew.

Only with magic can we be so lucky to have the site use said transaction.

This also is all happening within seconds do you think we are super computers who can take the amount of satoshis know exactly when the game is going to end compute all that with in seconds oh and get super lucky with magic and get our transaction on the exact second the game ends?

Neither luck nor magic have anything to do with this. Any run of the mill computer can make these calculations in the required time frame (10 seconds). In fact, I'm confident my mobile phone could do it.

If you cannot understand this simple concept you have no business running a Bitcoin gambling site.
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January 04, 2016, 11:54:13 AM
 #16

So first you were saying it was IMPOSSIBLE for you to use pregenerated hashes:

You are just straight out lying now, you are claiming we can use pre-generated hashes. This is 100% FALSE

And now you are saying that it is possible so long as you are willing to pay a few dust fees?

We would first have to pay the 0.001 fee from blockchain then we would also need know the second it would be on blockchain.

It is even worse than that: Since unconfirmed transactions are used to calculate each game's outcome, any valid transaction can be broadcast even if it has no chance of ever being confirmed. This effectively makes the attack free provided one has enough dust spread over a sufficient number of addresses.
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January 04, 2016, 12:15:20 PM
 #17

I first want to say i am very impressed on how much time you just spent attempting to make our undeniable provable fair system look any different than it is.

You are a highly skilled troll but the end of the day you are still just a troll. People can see you are 100% lying.

Lets take this last games hash


Mon Jan 04 2016 12:09:55 GMT-0800
 has won with 0.00080000 btc, had a winning chance of 88.89% and made 0.00009899 btc of profit.
LUCKY NUMBER: 1747

HASH: 1cdcc435be42f8c1819d0ad344d79453770c68f7aab53f3fa8d1de2e63635022

TOTAL POT: 90000 satoshi


now lets take that hash over to blockchain

Do you see this?
https://blockchain.info/tx/1cdcc435be42f8c1819d0ad344d79453770c68f7aab53f3fa8d1de2e63635022

Can you see the time stamp?
2016-01-04 12:09:53

Can you see the time stamp of the game?
Mon Jan 04 2016 12:09:55 GMT-0800


Now do you understand how the provably fair works?

Or are you going to continue to troll?

jlfvr
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January 04, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
 #18

I first want to say i am very impressed on how much time you just spent attempting to make our undeniable provable fair system look any different than it is.

You are a highly skilled troll but the end of the day you are still just a troll. People can see you are 100% lying.

I care about Bitcoin gambling and its community and one could also argue that one has a moral obligation to expose potentially fraudulent deception. As a result I have no problem putting some effort into my posts. You on the other hand have ignored nearly all of the well-thought-out and detailed explanations of why your game is not provably fair, instead opting to stick your head in the sand and to resort to personal attacks.

Arguing with you is most likely futile, which I am well aware of, but I hope that potential players will be able to form an educated opinion on you and your site and avoid your game when they read this thread.


Lets take this last games hash


Mon Jan 04 2016 12:09:55 GMT-0800
 has won with 0.00080000 btc, had a winning chance of 88.89% and made 0.00009899 btc of profit.
LUCKY NUMBER: 1747

HASH: 1cdcc435be42f8c1819d0ad344d79453770c68f7aab53f3fa8d1de2e63635022

TOTAL POT: 90000 satoshi


now lets take that hash over to blockchain

Do you see this?
https://blockchain.info/tx/1cdcc435be42f8c1819d0ad344d79453770c68f7aab53f3fa8d1de2e63635022

Can you see the time stamp?
2016-01-04 12:09:53

Can you see the time stamp of the game?
Mon Jan 04 2016 12:09:55 GMT-0800

At the time of this writing it is Mon, 04 Jan 2016 06:27 GMT-0800 so your game could not have even occurred yet. I'll assume that is just a bug or a mistake and that the time you meant is 12:09:55 GMT instead.

Again, Bitcoin transactions do not have timestamps. It is impossible to determine when a received Bitcoin transaction was generated. What Blockchain.info is showing you is the time they received the transaction. This time can vary wildly from node to node. Take a look at the following table, which shows when different blockchain explorers received the transaction in question:

Blockchain ExplorerReceived Time (UTC)
Biteasy.com12:09:13
ChainFlyer12:09:49
Blockchain.info12:09:53
BlockCypher12:09:54
BLOCKTRAIL12:09:55
BitPay12:21:14
CoinPrism12:21:14

Notice that Biteasy received the transaction significantly earlier than Blockchain.info at 12:09:13, whereas BitPay and CoinPrism did not receive the transaction at all until it was included in the block at 12:21:14.

Even if you assume that Blockchain.info is an authoritative source of transaction timestamps (which they are not), there is no way for players to verify that you picked the last transaction before the end of the round or even that the transactions received were not generated by yourself in order to ensure a certain result.

The following three transactions were received by Blockchain.info at Mon, 04 Jan 2016 12:09:53 GMT:


What makes any of them more valid than the next? How are players to verify that the house did not pick the one which benefits it the most?

Also, if the game ended at 12:09:55, why did you use a transaction that was received at 12:09:53, rather than one of the two transactions (1, 2) that were received at precisely 12:09:55? And how can players verify that you did not broadcast the transaction you picked in order to ensure a win for a player you control?

The answer is that the deciding transaction and therefore the winning player may as well be chosen arbitrarily by the house. Your game is not provably fair. In fact it is worse than the previous one because now players have the opportunity to cheat other players if the house isn't already cheating.

Now do you understand how the provably fair works?

Or are you going to continue to troll?

You claim that it is not possible to generate transactions and calculate their ID without broadcasting them and that it is not possible to calculate a game's result using the last transaction's hash and the pot size, despite posting a code snippet that does just that yourself (granted, you seem to have only copied and adopted it from this thread rather than writing your own). It is safe to say that I have a better understanding of your "provably fair" system than you have yourself.

Feel free to address all of the points I have brought up this time. I doubt you will.
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January 04, 2016, 02:51:27 PM
 #19

I first want to say i am very impressed on how much time you just spent attempting to make our undeniable provable fair system look any different than it is.

You are a highly skilled troll but the end of the day you are still just a troll. People can see you are 100% lying.

Lets take this last games hash


Mon Jan 04 2016 12:09:55 GMT-0800
 has won with 0.00080000 btc, had a winning chance of 88.89% and made 0.00009899 btc of profit.
LUCKY NUMBER: 1747

HASH: 1cdcc435be42f8c1819d0ad344d79453770c68f7aab53f3fa8d1de2e63635022

TOTAL POT: 90000 satoshi


now lets take that hash over to blockchain

Do you see this?
https://blockchain.info/tx/1cdcc435be42f8c1819d0ad344d79453770c68f7aab53f3fa8d1de2e63635022

Can you see the time stamp?
2016-01-04 12:09:53

Can you see the time stamp of the game?
Mon Jan 04 2016 12:09:55 GMT-0800


Now do you understand how the provably fair works?

Or are you going to continue to troll?



Dooglus is obviously just jealous of OPs success and wishes he thought of the raffle idea first so he wouldnt be stuck with a silly clam dice site.

OP you should challenge all these idiots to some sort of coding/what is provably fair battle , winner gets the others site.  All you need is a judge /escrow and a challenge.


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January 04, 2016, 03:01:53 PM
 #20

I believe the inconsistency in the timestamp is only a mistake. I agree with twitchyseal to Dooglus is just trying to bully the guide who is a competitor of him also a newbie which is quite unfair. The raffle idea is brilliant and we should encourage him to improve and make it better instead of attacking him like that
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