Bitcoin Foundation: Where on Earth Did all the Money Go?

[Gleb Gamow]

For the record, I honestly believe that Bruce Fenton is trying to put TBF on a new track (not satire, i.e., Sonny Vleisides' infamous "new track").

Honest question, Bruce: How is TBF gonna pay ongoing and future legal fees outta its dwindled coffer?

One more question since it's been a thorn in my side for a long time: Any chance of showing the bitcoins transaction depicting KnC paying its $100K membership fee? Unless I misread, you stated (paraphrased) that you had no qualms with providing past proof of transactions.

Again, this is not satire, nor will post such any more in this thread of yours, only asking straightforward questions pertaining to TBF and NOT your character of which I consider exemplary.

[Spoetnik]

Wow... 17 pages of rehashing up old topics and trolling! It does bring up some interesting ethical dilemmas like how does one determine Age of Consent. Fun Fact - The legal age of consent was 12 in The Vatican City up until 2013 where it changed to 14 for married women.....disgusting.

 Cody Wilson is interested to bring transparency to the Bitcoin Foundation and move this issue forward . Bruce, I sent you an IM.

 

I guess the new craze is crying Troll when talking on a forum huh ?
Google search what forum means ?

Those guys got cash..

That fucking faggot got 800k ?
Sorry but that means EVERYONE should know about this and this should be bumped to page one 24/7 for life.
I almost puked when i heard that !
Like really ? Seriously ?

Old news ?
I just found out now.
I also just told another guy just now who looked at this topic and was shocked and disgusted also.

Hey can i have a million dollars too ?
fair warning though.. i will keep coming back and crying Troll every time someone mentions it though.

[Spoetnik]

Does that mean all except you and Bruce are trolling and rehashing?
Was that irony/sarcasm?

I am trying to be productive here.
Is that not coming across?

I haven't spammed Bruces' message box.

Notice my post above wasn't a reply to you.(this is , thus the quote) There is indeed plenty(mostly) trolling/rehashing in these 17 pages, obviously not all of it falls in those categories.

Oh really ?
Name every topic here like that..
I will wait as you count every topic on the whole fucking board.

I have said loooong ago many times this place is a vehicle to cry Troll & FUD for dollars.

All you have to do is pull some sleazy bullshit for money then cry Troll non stop.. and then KEEP DOING IT !
Another scheme and another million.. the Marshal (Cryptsy co-founder) business plan.
It's a classic.. and a great way to make money with out having to work for a living.
Why work when you can just hang out here pushing scammy crap 24/7 ?
Then if anyone calls you out on it.. just call them a Troll Fud'ing .."turd in the punch bowl" problem solved.

[RoadStress]

One more question since it's been a thorn in my side for a long time: Any chance of showing the bitcoins transaction depicting KnC paying its $100K membership fee? Unless I misread, you stated (paraphrased) that you had no qualms with providing past proof of transactions.

Now this is something that I would also like to see! +1

[Spoetnik]

Oh really ?
Name every topic here like that..
I will wait as you count every topic on the whole fucking board.

I have said loooong ago many times this place is a vehicle to cry Troll & FUD for dollars.

All you have to do is pull some sleazy bullshit for money then cry Troll non stop.. and then KEEP DOING IT !
Another scheme and another million.. the Marshal (Cryptsy co-founder) business plan.
It's a classic.. and a great way to make money with out having to work for a living.
Why work when you can just hang out here pushing scammy crap 24/7 ?
Then if anyone calls you out on it.. just call them a Troll Fud'ing .."turd in the punch bowl" problem solved.

Be aware that I am trying to assist getting all the accounting documents released and audited by Cody Wilson and his Team which will than hand over the information to you and the public.

No reason to get hysterical when there is no way I could be aware you have missed all these conversations. My central point is that we don't need to speculate about any possible corruption when we will soon have all the details to confirm yes or no on any allegations.

Puhhhlease.. you think i am Hysterical ? ROFL
Liek OMg I am Trollzingz an di can;t control my outRage I am using ANGRY FONT OMG !111111

gimme a break.  
I don't have emotions i am an ice cube.. cold and calculating 24.7 for life .
You see what i penned because i arranged it that way on purpose for a reason.
So spare my the hysterical girl routine.. that shit won't fly with me son..

If the foundation blew through MILLIONS of dollars for pretty much nothing then YES an audit is needed.
and the next more important step is making damn sure it doesn't happen again !
Who still works where is almost irrelevant.
Which is why this should be discussed.. just like that master-P fraud topic you guys here are pulling the same shit on.


Bullshit gets pulled and many of you go into over time trying to click report.
Crying Troll.
Crying FUD.
Locking topics.
Running around telling everyone to be quiet..

How is that angle playin' out for ya guys ?
Is it effective ?

EDIT:
Lemme guess next i will see the obligatory stop talking or else defamation threats ROFL

PS:
Gleb & Spoetnik are on your topic now     

[Bitcoinpro]

Oh really ?
Name every topic here like that..
I will wait as you count every topic on the whole fucking board.

I have said loooong ago many times this place is a vehicle to cry Troll & FUD for dollars.

All you have to do is pull some sleazy bullshit for money then cry Troll non stop.. and then KEEP DOING IT !
Another scheme and another million.. the Marshal (Cryptsy co-founder) business plan.
It's a classic.. and a great way to make money with out having to work for a living.
Why work when you can just hang out here pushing scammy crap 24/7 ?
Then if anyone calls you out on it.. just call them a Troll Fud'ing .."turd in the punch bowl" problem solved.

Be aware that I am trying to assist getting all the accounting documents released and audited by Cody Wilson and his Team which will than hand over the information to you and the public.

No reason to get hysterical when there is no way I could be aware you have missed all these conversations. My central point is that we don't need to speculate about any possible corruption when we will soon have all the details to confirm yes or no on any allegations.

Puhhhlease.. you think i am Hysterical ? ROFL
Liek OMg I am Trollzingz an di can;t control my outRage I am using ANGRY FONT OMG !111111

gimme a break.  
I don't have emotions i am an ice cube.. cold and calculating 24.7 for life .
You see what i penned because i arranged it that way on purpose for a reason.
So spare my the hysterical girl routine.. that shit won't fly with me son..

If the foundation blew through MILLIONS of dollars for pretty much nothing then YES an audit is needed.
and the next more important step is making damn sure it doesn't happen again !
Who still works where is almost irrelevant.
Which is why this should be discussed.. just like that master-P fraud topic you guys here are pulling the same shit on.


Bullshit gets pulled and many of you go into over time trying to click report.
Crying Troll.
Crying FUD.
Locking topics.
Running around telling everyone to be quiet..

How is that angle playin' out for ya guys ?
Is it effective ?

EDIT:
Lemme guess next i will see the obligatory stop talking or else defamation threats ROFL

very well said

[BruceFenton]

For the record, I honestly believe that Bruce Fenton is trying to put TBF on a new track (not satire, i.e., Sonny Vleisides' infamous "new track").

Honest question, Bruce: How is TBF gonna pay ongoing and future legal fees outta its dwindled coffer?

One more question since it's been a thorn in my side for a long time: Any chance of showing the bitcoins transaction depicting KnC paying its $100K membership fee? Unless I misread, you stated (paraphrased) that you had no qualms with providing past proof of transactions.

Again, this is not satire, nor will post such any more in this thread of yours, only asking straightforward questions pertaining to TBF and NOT your character of which I consider exemplary.

Thanks -- well hopefully legal fees would be minimal.  Bitcoin Foundation paid, way, way too much IMHO on service providers: legal, accounting etc.

There was a great deal from a couple law firms who provided pro-Bono services in exchange for membership.  Those are great deals I think and should be continued.

In principal, I'm happy to give any info on the KNC donation -- problem is that I wasn't given any of those records and don't have access or ability to see them.  I wish I did.   I wasn't involved when that donation was made.  If you have any info on where I might investigate it, please let me know.

[Gleb Gamow]

For the record, I honestly believe that Bruce Fenton is trying to put TBF on a new track (not satire, i.e., Sonny Vleisides' infamous "new track").

Honest question, Bruce: How is TBF gonna pay ongoing and future legal fees outta its dwindled coffer?

One more question since it's been a thorn in my side for a long time: Any chance of showing the bitcoins transaction depicting KnC paying its $100K membership fee? Unless I misread, you stated (paraphrased) that you had no qualms with providing past proof of transactions.

Again, this is not satire, nor will post such any more in this thread of yours, only asking straightforward questions pertaining to TBF and NOT your character of which I consider exemplary.

Thanks -- well hopefully legal fees would be minimal.  Bitcoin Foundation paid, way, way too much IMHO on service providers: legal, accounting etc.

There was a great deal from a couple law firms who provided pro-Bono services in exchange for membership.  Those are great deals I think and should be continued.

In principal, I'm happy to give any info on the KNC donation -- problem is that I wasn't given any of those records and don't have access or ability to see them.  I wish I did.   I wasn't involved when that donation was made.  If you have any info on where I might investigate it, please let me know.

It's part of the $355,723 USD figure on the tax form you prepared.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ldjk7/hello_rbitcoin_im_patrick_murck_executive/cltw3nv

Hi Bruno.

I double-checked and we sent KNC Miner an invoice via BitPay for $100,000 USD (Platinum Membership price), which they paid timely.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ldjk7/hello_rbitcoin_im_patrick_murck_executive/cltxn70

That is great! Now, show us the tx on the blockchain, since such is going to be disclosed anyway come tax time, you might as well show us said proof now to quell further discontent.

Page is no longer available: https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/04/30/kncminer-joins-bitcoin-foundation-at-platinum-level/

First instance of archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20140511082451/https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/04/30/kncminer-joins-bitcoin-foundation-at-platinum-level/

[BruceFenton]

So no one ever got back with the TX detail?

[franky1]

It's part of the $355,723 USD figure on the tax form you prepared.

i think the tax return was done by someone called Wendy Campos who worked for Moss Adams LLP

so i think she had access to all the data not bruce... and Bruce just signed off in it.
though i should hope bruce still had access to all the documentation, including access to bitpay to review invoices and payments.. or even knowing some of the bitcoin addresses used so he can trace the payment using a blockexplorer..

[Gleb Gamow]

It's part of the $355,723 USD figure on the tax form you prepared.

i think the tax return was done by someone called Wendy Campos who worked for Moss Adams LLP

so i think she had access to all the data not bruce... and Bruce just signed off in it.
though i should hope bruce still had access to all the documentation, including access to bitpay to review invoices and payments.. or even knowing some of the bitcoin addresses used so he can trace the payment using a blockexplorer..

<comment not meant as a dis or satire (as promised)> I'm sure Bruce, being versed in compliance and all pertaining to the importance of what to do and not do in the brokerage space, should have couples of documents he has signed off on. (with all due respect to Bruce)

[rizzlarolla]

Topic: Bitcoin Foundation: Where on Earth Did all the Money Go?

BF "I do remain skeptical of the value of an audit."

On a personal level thats fine,
But as BF chair, or whatever, I would like to see your default position as - wanting an audit for transparency-
Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

BF "2) ridiculously wasteful and reckless spending"

This is not too far from saying misappropriation and fraud/theft.
(which I am not saying is the case)
But dont you NEED to know. I kind of do.
Would ex board members fund this audit possibly? (It would save a lot of speculation/mudslinging)

BF "I have not been presented any evidence of any theft, criminal act or similar wrongdoing but would be *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%* for anyone with information and evidence of any such act leading to recovery of any funds which were misappropriated or stolen."

And your are unlikely to be presented with *evidence* without an audit?
How about instead of *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%*, put it (?) into the audit fund to get it started?


I wont go on about Brock Pierce either, except to say there are other allegations against him also.
($200k and stock stolen. KNC miner debacle. other?)

Not sure what is on topic here now!

Edit. BF being Bruce fenton, not bitcoin foundation. didn't spot that!

Bruce, did you miss this. Or was it ignored?
If you don't agree fine, just let me know.

To summarise,

I would strongly like an audit.
As known TBF is broke, so..

Bruce fenton changes stance to "would like to see audit for clarity, but TBF can't afford it."
Bruce fenton donates whatever he is happy too to an audit fund. (instead of a bounty fund)
Bruce Fenton reaches out to ex board members to also donate to the fund.
(and any present board members who are willing)
The audit is done independently, at no cost to TBF.

To say an audit will not help, i'm not sure that is correct.
It will help clarify for all concerned.

[BruceFenton]

Topic: Bitcoin Foundation: Where on Earth Did all the Money Go?

BF "I do remain skeptical of the value of an audit."

On a personal level thats fine,
But as BF chair, or whatever, I would like to see your default position as - wanting an audit for transparency-
Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

BF "2) ridiculously wasteful and reckless spending"

This is not too far from saying misappropriation and fraud/theft.
(which I am not saying is the case)
But dont you NEED to know. I kind of do.
Would ex board members fund this audit possibly? (It would save a lot of speculation/mudslinging)

BF "I have not been presented any evidence of any theft, criminal act or similar wrongdoing but would be *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%* for anyone with information and evidence of any such act leading to recovery of any funds which were misappropriated or stolen."

And your are unlikely to be presented with *evidence* without an audit?
How about instead of *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%*, put it (?) into the audit fund to get it started?


I wont go on about Brock Pierce either, except to say there are other allegations against him also.
($200k and stock stolen. KNC miner debacle. other?)

Not sure what is on topic here now!

Edit. BF being Bruce fenton, not bitcoin foundation. didn't spot that!

Bruce, did you miss this. Or was it ignored?
If you don't agree fine, just let me know.

To summarise,

I would strongly like an audit.
As known TBF is broke, so..

Bruce fenton changes stance to "would like to see audit for clarity, but TBF can't afford it."
Bruce fenton donates whatever he is happy too to an audit fund. (instead of a bounty fund)
Bruce Fenton reaches out to ex board members to also donate to the fund.
(and any present board members who are willing)
The audit is done independently, at no cost to TBF.

To say an audit will not help, i'm not sure that is correct.
It will help clarify for all concerned.

Rizarola -- sorry for the delay - I had not seen this.

The basic purpose of an audit is to 1) find out what happened in some situation or to 2) gain information that is useful to develop new procedures (such as a security audit) to prevent a problem

In this case we already know what happened: a bunch of money was spend and Bitcoin value dropped - the money is gone and so are the people who made those decisions.   I don't think an audit would uncover new info.

However I won't stand in the way of anyone who wants to do one.  I personally would rather focus on things more directly beneficial to Bitcoin -- when someone asks what we did in 2016 - I would rather have it be a list of more positive things than "audit" as I don't think many people care that much about one.

I personally just donated $10,000 to the Bitcoin Foundation - as a donor I don't really want that money spent on actions that are past and that the current team isn't responsible for and that nothing can really be done about.   I'd rather see it spent on things that more directly move Bitcoin forward.

[BruceFenton]

Gleb-

I tracked down the info the foundation had for the KNC Miner membership you asked about.

From what I see there was a BitPay invoice paid on 4/23/14 for $100,000 or 205.9891 BTC

Looks like 6:12am.  Not sure what time zone that is

I don't have a corresponding blockchain TX because it was BitPay.

Does this do the trick?  What else can I look into?

[Pollak]

To me those guys are not any better then scammers.
They just waste money on stupid things for their office, in no way they are contributing to going bitcoin mainstream

[rizzlarolla]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Bruce.

1) find out what happened in some situation

This is what I am also promoting.
But, do we know what happened?

We know the money/BTC have gone,we know the ex board are gone.

We (edit - I) don't know why, officially, more legally, all has gone.
(do we know if there was criminal/misappropriation without an audit, I am not clear? makes a big difference , to me.)

Though you will not stand in the way of an audit, I suggested you more embrace an audit, (pending funding/others time) I take that as a no.

Can you/TBF not focus on Bitcoin/moving TBF forward in conjunction with an audit? I don't really see much crossover.
Edit. Indeed, Would an audit not give some "credibility" to carry on?

If you donated $10,000 to TBF it is wasted money, ATM, IMO. Without an audit. (unless we know no criminal or misappropriation took place without?)

Hope you appreciate it's just my (intended) friendly feedback here, I'm just banging my drum.
I personally wish you luck in your endeavours here.
But my wishes for TBF are different. They are conditional.

Thanks for you time.

[franky1]

Gleb-

I tracked down the info the foundation had for the KNC Miner membership you asked about.

From what I see there was a BitPay invoice paid on 4/23/14 for $100,000 or 205.9891 BTC

Looks like 6:12am.  Not sure what time zone that is

I don't have a corresponding blockchain TX because it was BitPay.

Does this do the trick?  What else can I look into?

bruce, before i go searching the blockchain on that date, is the bitcoin amount (205.9891) exact? or is it a calculation based on $100,000 you done after the fact based on an average conversion rate of the day

i just wanna be sure im looking for the right amount before taking the time searching

[BruceFenton]

Gleb-

I tracked down the info the foundation had for the KNC Miner membership you asked about.

From what I see there was a BitPay invoice paid on 4/23/14 for $100,000 or 205.9891 BTC

Looks like 6:12am.  Not sure what time zone that is

I don't have a corresponding blockchain TX because it was BitPay.

Does this do the trick?  What else can I look into?

bruce, before i go searching the blockchain on that date, is the bitcoin amount (205.9891) exact? or is it a calculation based on $100,000 you done after the fact based on an average conversion rate of the day

i just wanna be sure im looking for the right amount before taking the time searching

This is what the BitPay invoice and receipt said was rhe the exact amount on Bitcoin - the value varied by a penny or so on each side from the looks of it.

There should be a blockchain transaction that corresponds to this amount on this date.  If there is a tool that can sort by rx amount or something then it would be easier to find.

[knightkon]

I am seeing a lot going on here and I have to wonder why someone has not jumped out yet and said, lets get an outside agency to take care of the books for the company.  This would stop alot of the arguing.  I know in my company, there are a lot of the higher ups that do not understand what they are reading and they only add and subtract.  When you just add and subtract and do not pay attention as to the order you do such actions, you will always come up with a wrong answer.  

[BruceFenton]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Bruce.

1) find out what happened in some situation

This is what I am also promoting.
But, do we know what happened?

We know the money/BTC have gone,we know the ex board are gone.

We (edit - I) don't know why, officially, more legally, all has gone.
(do we know if there was criminal/misappropriation without an audit, I am not clear? makes a big difference , to me.)

Though you will not stand in the way of an audit, I suggested you more embrace an audit, (pending funding/others time) I take that as a no.

Can you/TBF not focus on Bitcoin/moving TBF forward in conjunction with an audit? I don't really see much crossover.
Edit. Indeed, Would an audit not give some "credibility" to carry on?

If you donated $10,000 to TBF it is wasted money, ATM, IMO. Without an audit. (unless we know no criminal or misappropriation took place without?)

Hope you appreciate it's just my (intended) friendly feedback here, I'm just banging my drum.
I personally wish you luck in your endeavours here.
But my wishes for TBF are different. They are conditional.

Thanks for you time.

Thanks Rizz --

I've looked through and really it seems that it's just a case of a combo of good decisions, terrible decisions and the Bitcoin drop.   The Bitcoin price drop alone accounts for a huge amount.

Remember also that there were internal and external accountants and bookkeepers --  if there was some sort of fraud it would have had to involve many people, including several who have licenses and practices which depend on having accurate books.

As for the donation - remember, this organization is no more mine than yours.  I know it had problems and sucked before.  I wish we could all just admit that and move on to the next chapter.  I wouldn't have donated to the Bitcoin Foundation for an audit before I joined and wouldn't want to see the money spent that way now.

I hope someone in the community can come forward and do an analysis and report to the public -- it would be great to put this to rest.  In the meantime all I can do is be as transparent as possible and work to do some good stuff for Bitcoin.

Thanks very much.