Bitcoin Foundation: Where on Earth Did all the Money Go?

[BruceFenton]

EDIT:  Not sure why it would be unclear but these are 2014 expenses incurred by people no longer with the foundation.


This week Charles Hoskinson posted a thoughtful post on the Bitcoin Foundation and his idea that an audit would help the organization break from the past.

I'm happy to support an audit provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one.

I do remain skeptical of the value of an audit.  We all know that a lot of money was wasted and lost - I detail the basics of the 2014 spending below -- it is unlikely worse than imagined as all the funds are essentially gone.  I don't think much can be done about past mistakes, the people involved are no longer with the organization.

Also this week, someone on an anti-Bitcoin sub posted this data from the 990 forms and was afraid it would be censored if posted on r/Bitcoin.

I'm happy to post it for them, minus the color commentary and a couple of minor factual inaccuracies.

They also implied that some people would want to not have this information brought to light.  I'm more than glad to.  I don't defend these financial decisions as I had nothing to do with them.  I also had thought the 2014 990 form with this was posted once completed this summer.  At that time we were going through a website and server change and I was also recovering from a car accident, so if it was posted it wasn't in the proper place.  For not having the 990 form posted in the correct section a few months back , that's on me and I'm sorry.  

The bigger matter is the financials themselves.

I don't defend these financials, I certainly don't apologize for them or attempt to justify them.  I had nothing whatsoever to do with these decisions.

As you can see the spending / loss was caused by:

1) a large drop in Bitcoin value costing millions of dollars - the peak foundation assets were calculated based on a Bitcoin price in the $800 range -- so, had they simply held those coins it would have seen the $6-7 million fall to $2 million or so

2) ridiculously wasteful and reckless spending

3) reasonable and legitimate expenses such as Gavin and dev salaries

I have not been presented any evidence of any theft, criminal act or similar wrongdoing but would be *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%* for anyone with information and evidence of any such act leading to recovery of any funds which were misappropriated or stolen.  Those who imply that there is any wrongdoing at the foundation now or by those involved now should come forward with evidence or at least a solid and specific accusation.  If presented with any such evidence I would work to have justice done.

It seems strange that so many make an effort to tie those involved now to the sins of the past.

This is the point of a turnaround;  to take what an organization has and make it as useful as possible.   Many people think that the change in management and new focus, combined with a new mission statement can help the organization to help Bitcoin more.

I wish that the foundation hadn't had so many problems.  I did think it was worthwhile to try to help the organization.


Here are the finances:

Salaries

Gavin Andresen: $147k. Chief Scientist. Salary down from $209k (salary was higher in 2013 as it was pegged to BTCUSD)

Jodie Brady: $141k. COO of the Foundation, who also served as CFO at CoinLab (Peter Vessenes' affiliate company).

Jon Matonis:  $137.5k through "THE HOLE OF ROY LLC". Salary up from $31k. Jon Matonis acted as Executive Director up to October 2014.

Patrick Murck: $115k. Executive Director of the Foundation (as of November 2014). Salary up from $57k.


Contractors:

"LOCAL PRODUCER" was paid $790k to host Bitcoin 2014 in Amsterdam.

Apple Fundraising Consultants were also paid $123k for activities related to the aforementioned conference.

THEPOLICYCOUNCILCOM INC as the Foundation's 'Global Policy Counsel', paid $114k for about 9 months of work in 2014.

And the breakdown of the functional expenses, oh, so many expenses:
Office Expenses: $39k up from $8k in 2013.

Information Technology: $158k up from $67k

Travel: $159k up from $69k

Occupancy: $18k up from $7k.

Accounting: $50.5k up from $9.1k.

Legal fees: $220k up from $161k.


Other: $653k, consisting of:

Professional services: $307k

Public relations: $93k

Executive Directory Compensation: $137.5k

Professional event expenses: $115k

Other salaries and wages: $471k up from $72k


Revenues :
Membership dues: $335k down from $358k
Conference revenue: $584k up from $337k
At the end of 2014 not much was left: $366k.


2015

The beginning of 2015 still had many expenses similar to the above.  At the time I came aboard those costs reduced dramatically.  There were still high outstanding legal and accounting bills as well as the bitnodes funding and Bitcoin.org funding and other previous obligations that were paid.

Current spending is in the $8k / mo range

Current expenses:

Board salaries: $0

Executive Director salary: $0

All reimbursements for travel:  in the range of $3000 - primarily for three speakers airfare and hotel (me, Gavin and Andreas) to DevCore, $600 in pizza for the attendees etc.

Aside from one economy flight to DevCore and the hotel I have personally not been reimbursed for any travel.  I have paid some costs from my own credit card for web hosting etc which were also reimbursed - this is also a small amount, perhaps in the $2000 range

Current salaries include one part time bookkeeper and one almost full time ops director.

I'd love any feedback about what the organization can do to break from the past.  We could close, sure.  I'm not convinced that is what's best for Bitcoin and 8/10 top voted candidates from the last four elections don't think that's what the members want.  What else can an organization do to move forward?

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[Gleb Gamow]

Thank you, Bruce, for starting this thread. For some odd reason I'm shadowban on Reddit... and I was playin' nice according to the posts I've penned leading up to the time I was shadowban months ago. Still scratchin' my head on that one.

Ironically, I came here to hunt Charles' thread (refraining from startin' a new one) to get on your ass about something you penned (EDIT: Holy Fuck! What I had in mind in saying was already said, then some. WOW!), but I'll hold off since, again, you were kind enough to start this thread. I'll read more instead to get a better lay of the land.

[Gleb Gamow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3zbswe/bitcoin_foundation_where_did_all_the_money_go/cyl4lgb

I also said I'd open the records.

Ironically, I was kicked in the balls when requesting one simple bitcoin traction, that been the one where KnC paid $100K UDS in bitcoin to become a platinum member prior to an infamous election. I started and maintain a thread pertaining to such where to date I believe all the crickets are now dead parrots.

[Amph]

what the sense of a bitcoin foundation, on the first place, when it is supposed for bitcoin to be decentralized?

average joe can find all the info they need on bitcoin.org as i see it, that is the foundation already

we don't certainly need a bunch of greedy dude, that work as a central hub

[Gleb Gamow]

I'm not sure why the above is relevant, for it's not like Peter Vessenes was one of the original founders of The Bitcoin Foundation or served as Chairman of the Board.

[Gleb Gamow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3zbswe/bitcoin_foundation_where_did_all_the_money_go/cyl756u

1) I'm a volunteer 2) I was in an extremely bad car accident at the time the 990s came out and had months of recovery 3) the webmaster is also a volunteer 4) at the time the 990 was released we were switching both the servers and the entire website design
I thought they were already posted.
I apologized for them being late.

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/transparency/



The links highlighted are dead (no longer available), with 2014 still not available.

May 1, 2015: http://cointelegraph.com/news/114131/interview-with-the-bitcoin-foundations-bruce-fenton

CT: There has been a lot of controversy regarding the foundation. How do you think you can provide a more transparent foundation to the public?

BF: This week I announced that we aim to be among the very most transparent organizations in the world. For starters we will immediately work to meet all ten of the best practices for transparency listed by the National Council of Nonprofit Organizations and additionally we will do industry specific things like hash financial records on the Blockchain using Factom and continue using Consider-it for member feedback.

[NorrisK]

Looks to me that the foundation could use a financial manager of some sorts. It feels like people without management experience got a lot of money on their hands with no clue how to sensibly spend it.

Wages are way too high, should have increased with increasing earnings. Prove your worth first.

Travel expenses are insane and probably a result of what was posted before about 9000 USD trips. Travel economy class if you are on a budget.

What happened to the conference incomes? The sponsors and registration fees should've covered most if not all of the expenses.

[franky1]

changing the board and mission statement, changes nothing..

instead, everything needs to change.

people would rather see and have the ability to personally decide where every penny goes to, rather than having one vote and then dictators make the decisions per year..

this can easily be achieved by changing to a crowdfunding platform for projects, rather than the political membership donations of the past who then pre-selected a biased set of projects to allow voting on.

by having crowdfunding. there doesnt need to be a treasury/CFO as the members are paying the projects they like directly and not need someone holding the purse-strings.
by having crowdfunding. theres no backlash about vote rigging as there is no central treasury or central voting, instead, people just donate to the project they want and thats it. if you dont like a project then you dont pay and thus not worried about their money is used for something you dont like..

EG instead of hoping TBF legal team would do some lobbying to sort out bitlicence, the legal team make a project proposal, detailing what the will do, how, when, etc. and then all the bitcoin businesses can throw whatever value they like at the project to support the legal costs. while other members who concentrate more on bitcoins protocol can continue donating to the coders project proposal.

its the one thing i found very strange, bitcoin allows for a legitimate voting system where people can vote using their funds for what they want. but TBF went for the central treasury model and biased 'hands up' irregular voting instead.

any new BF platform should just be a resource of business directories, tutorials, project idea's, proposals where everything related to bitcoin can be found, and the mission statement is just 'go forth and prosper'

[Gleb Gamow]

"LOCAL PRODUCER" was paid $790k to host Bitcoin 2014 in Amsterdam.

Apple Fundraising Consultants were also paid $123k for activities related to the aforementioned conference.

https://who.godaddy.com/whoisstd.aspx?domain=applefundraisingconsultants.co.uk&prog_id=GoDaddy&k=OiGAXw7R9S3FgjySw4gHZuCbw2mpn1B0tzfqrmHNlcwCsggHdTajg2MfDj%2f%20PnBNdyjJwIdeyDFf020Hb5Q%2f0Q%3d%3d

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://applefundraisingconsultants.co.uk/

Funny, how a consultant agency was paid to consult for an event a couple months prior to it being formed, with it's website not even indexed prior to 2015. I'm curious as to how this outfit was obtained in the first place.

I may have to ask my bud in the Philippines, Leroy Fodor B.B.A., to calculate for me what 10% of $123K is, hopin' it's over a hundred bucks because I'm gettin' low on eggnog.

EDIT: My bad! Just saw why AFC was chosen: https://www.endole.co.uk/company/08051881/apple-fundraising-consultants-limited



To more than double their net worth. (my math skills are good enough to do double maths, but that there % thingy trips me up every time)

Guess I better make room in the fridge for hopefully a hundred bucks worth of eggnog. Hey, I may even be able to afford a new enema bag if that there 10% bounty equates to enough money. Me so happy!

[Kprawn]

Most of the money should have gone into the salaries of the Bitcoin Core developers in my opinion and not into "administrative" and "management" salaries. They paid a

secretary, some insane salary and justified it by saying she was well worth it. Most people did not want a foundation from the start... Bitcoin does not need a centralized

figure head to represent them. The Core developers must be the crucial piece of this puzzle.. not the management staff. 

[franky1]

"LOCAL PRODUCER" was paid $790k to host Bitcoin 2014 in Amsterdam.

Apple Fundraising Consultants were also paid $123k for activities related to the aforementioned conference.

https://who.godaddy.com/whoisstd.aspx?domain=applefundraisingconsultants.co.uk&prog_id=GoDaddy&k=OiGAXw7R9S3FgjySw4gHZuCbw2mpn1B0tzfqrmHNlcwCsggHdTajg2MfDj%2f%20PnBNdyjJwIdeyDFf020Hb5Q%2f0Q%3d%3d

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://applefundraisingconsultants.co.uk/

what makes me laugh is a british company employed to help with an Amsterdam conference. Amsterdam is home of the red-light district, and the relaxed approach to drugs. so they are literally the experts on putting on an entertaining show

give anyone $100 to spend a day looking for a location and then the venue hire fee, and its done, cheap.

most venues supply the seating, electric, and even technology such as projectors so paying $123k just for 'consulting' seems steep.

im starting to think TBF had to throw money at people just so they had nothing left over at the end of the year to keep their 'non-profit' status. which is the downside of non-profits.. they waste money just to keep their tax exemption status..

if only they had more projects and spread that money more wisely they could still end up with zero balance at the end of the year while also offering more for the community.

and thats why crowfunding projects directly would benefit, as then there is no 'treasury' pot of money to worry about throwing away at the end of the year..

[franky1]

I think only Core developers who really important in Bitcoin Foundation
Bitcoin is decentralized, so i think others than Core developers in Bitcoin Foundation isn't really important.

Also, i think they spend too much money on something not too useful such as Consultation & Travel.

i agree consulting for non development centric stuff is too high, but travel should be given for the prominent names that actually have something to contribute as its not fair to make them pay for travel and hotel just for the benefit of others.
EG pay programmers travel, but not office dwellers with glossy name badges and meaningless titles
but..
the funds should obviously balance out from the income of the conference ticket sales. so it actually ends up not seeming like an extra cost.

EG
if a conference is prebooked, where a deposit is paid.. then people can order tickets, and the funds from the ticket sales covers the extra costs. that way the only real upfront cost from a project proposal is the venue deposit to legitimize the event, to then allow ticket sales to cover the other costs, thus make it self sustainable

[BruceFenton]

Looks to me that the foundation could use a financial manager of some sorts. It feels like people without management experience got a lot of money on their hands with no clue how to sensibly spend it.

Wages are way too high, should have increased with increasing earnings. Prove your worth first.

Travel expenses are insane and probably a result of what was posted before about 9000 USD trips. Travel economy class if you are on a budget.

What happened to the conference incomes? The sponsors and registration fees should've covered most if not all of the expenses.

Not sure why it isn't clear that no one involved in these decisions is with the organization and the current costs, as listed above, are less than 10% of the former costs.

[BruceFenton]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3zbswe/bitcoin_foundation_where_did_all_the_money_go/cyl756u

CT: There has been a lot of controversy regarding the foundation. How do you think you can provide a more transparent foundation to the public?

BF: This week I announced that we aim to be among the very most transparent organizations in the world. For starters we will immediately work to meet all ten of the best practices for transparency listed by the National Council of Nonprofit Organizations and additionally we will do industry specific things like hash financial records on the Blockchain using Factom and continue using Consider-it for member feedback.

The first two links were not dead as of yesterday, I apologized for the third link being late in posting and explained the reason was mostly due to a car accident and web server & site transfer.

I did keep the pledge to be transparent.  All financials and board minutes have been released since I volunteered, there was an error in releasing this one form.  It was not done so in an effort to avoid transparency, I have no motivation to obscure bad decisions I had nothing to do with.

[franky1]

his heart is in the right place, i think we should look to the future and get something new and different started rather then wasting months and thousands of $$ just to get an organised report to show the past.

if they want to do an audit so be it.. but waiting till after the audit to then try something new is just wasting time.. new things can start now while also looking at the past.. there is no reason to wait

in my eyes i pretend TBF never existed before 2016 and something new that actually does something should be created, something everyone can go to be part of and help each other.. no hierachy. no treasury. just something anyone can get involved in and throw idea's or funds at directly, without middlemen

[BruceFenton]

To be clear, I don't think the audit is a great use of time.  I'd much rather focus on things beneficial to Bitcoin.

Here is the proposed mission statement:

https://github.com/BruceFenton/bitcoinfoundationplan

[franky1]

hmm..

The foundation Chief Scientist is Gavin Andresen. The foundation also wishes to create a Technical Communications Committee which will be chaired by someone with significant knowledge about core development. The primary role of this committee will be to bridge the gap between core development and the public and business leaders by updating members of the industry on current events in development and what they mean to the Bitcoin industry.

glorified name badge : smart geeky spokesman

.. much easier to redevelop the site where people can just add announcements and people can edit, highlight or correct should something said be wrong. thus relying on the community as a whole rather than just one person. much like how wiki or github works.

that way for instance. gavin can concentrate on programming. so can gmaxwell, luke jr, etc, etc and all of them can announce something. without there needing to be a chairman sat in an office overseeing them..

im not so loving the whole "board member chairmen of committee stuff".. and would rather see more direct action with those who actually do stuff.. think micro communities rather than committees.

but hey thats just my opinion

[Gyrsur]

LOL, looks like the FIFA of Bitcoin. let them go. they have had their chance.

[Gleb Gamow]

Looks to me that the foundation could use a financial manager of some sorts. It feels like people without management experience got a lot of money on their hands with no clue how to sensibly spend it.

Wages are way too high, should have increased with increasing earnings. Prove your worth first.

Travel expenses are insane and probably a result of what was posted before about 9000 USD trips. Travel economy class if you are on a budget.

What happened to the conference incomes? The sponsors and registration fees should've covered most if not all of the expenses.

Not sure why it isn't clear that no one involved in these decisions is with the organization and the current costs, as listed above, are less than 10% of the former costs.

Excellent point, Bruce. Our bad! Past performances of members no longer at TBF who spent less than 10% of the former costs are not indicative of future performances of future TBF members operating under a new and approved, and again, fully-transparent TBF. I speak for everybody here and say that we won't make that mistake again.

Question: Would you be so kind as to state who over at Reddit mentioned a 10% bounty for uncovering any wrongdoings? His name eludes me at the moment and I don't feel like reading the entire TBF thread over at Reddit again. As a hint as to what the person's name is, taxing my memory I believe he's some sort of volunteer at TBF who doesn't love his position, but doesn't mind using his unpaid position to advance whatever else he's into (a guess on my part, not speaking for the community as a whole in that last assessment).

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

FWIW a lot of us want nothing to do with anything associated with Brock Pierce. But, you know, good luck.

[Gleb Gamow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3zbswe/bitcoin_foundation_where_did_all_the_money_go/cyl756u

CT: There has been a lot of controversy regarding the foundation. How do you think you can provide a more transparent foundation to the public?

BF: This week I announced that we aim to be among the very most transparent organizations in the world. For starters we will immediately work to meet all ten of the best practices for transparency listed by the National Council of Nonprofit Organizations and additionally we will do industry specific things like hash financial records on the Blockchain using Factom and continue using Consider-it for member feedback.

The first two links were not dead as of yesterday, I apologized for the third link being late in posting and explained the reason was mostly due to a car accident and web server & site transfer.

I did keep the pledge to be transparent.  All financials and board minutes have been released since I volunteered, there was an error in releasing this one form.  It was not done so in an effort to avoid transparency, I have no motivation to obscure bad decisions I had nothing to do with.

Those links are now working, BUT they were DEAD a few hours ago, as well as a couple days again when I first mentioned it, with other concurring that they were dead.

About your accident in May. I took the liberty and read ALL your Twitter tweets from May 2015, forward, and read that in about July you were nearly recovered. From that point forward you were involved in myriad projects and attended functions according to your posts, including finding time to comment on various funnies you've stumbled upon the Internet. From what I've ascertained, I see no reason why a simple tax form couldn't be uploaded in September, October, November, or even December after the last public meeting. All you would've had to do to was blast an email or two or three to the proper persons capable of performing said task and it'll would've been done. Hell, one could've done such from the comforts of their hospital bed with their head bandaged between tweets after the accident. Double hell, you could've tweeted the request, whereupon the form would've been uploaded back in July 2015.

Question 2: Would a TBF personal scan the forms, convert them to PDF, then upload them to the website, or does a consultant firm need to be procured to preform said task?

[franky1]

FWIW a lot of us want nothing to do with anything associated with Brock Pierce. But, you know, good luck.

im thinking he wont be part of the next gen version.. afterall he doesnt know anything about the code or offered anything that actually benefited the community. he just sat in front of the camera saying "bitcoin is going to be big" (not verbatim)

we dont need figureheads announcing the utopian future, we need actual guys on the ground developing, announcing and showing off the reality

[Gleb Gamow]

To be clear, I don't think the audit is a great use of time.  I'd much rather focus on things beneficial to Bitcoin.

Here is the proposed mission statement:

https://github.com/BruceFenton/bitcoinfoundationplan

The more you state that an audit is a great waste of time, the more I wanna see it, akin to the longer it takes for the 2014 taxes to be presented, the more I wanna see it.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

FWIW a lot of us want nothing to do with anything associated with Brock Pierce. But, you know, good luck.

im thinking he wont be part of the next gen version.. afterall he doesnt know anything about the code or offered anything that actually benefited the community. he just sat in front of the camera saying "bitcoin is going to be big" (not verbatim)

we dont need figureheads announcing the utopian future, we need actual guys on the ground developing, announcing and showing off the reality

Remember all those resignations weren't for nothing. As far as I know, he's still Chairman and has no intention of stepping down.

[BruceFenton]

Question: Would you be so kind as to state who over at Reddit mentioned a 10% bounty for uncovering any wrongdoings? His name eludes me at the moment and I don't feel like reading the entire TBF thread over at

Your post has lots of sarcasm so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

I offered the bounty.  How is this inconsistent with anything else I've said such as the other comment noting that it's not accurate to say the foundation needs a new financial manager based on spending by people no longer there?

[coins101]

I like the idea of a Bitcoin Foundation, during these early days of engagement with governments, regulators and other industry bodies.

The banking system in the UK has a Banking Association. It is 'The Voice of Banking'.

The Bitcoin Foundation is the public voice of Bitcoin, or it can be / should be.

There is no point wishing for mass adoption and general acceptance and believing it will happen, 'Because Bitcoin'.

Should the Foundation have hedged against a spike and sharp reversal in the BTC price? Yes. But hindsight is a wonderful ability bestowed on millions of armchair critics.

The OP should really be called: Bitcoin Foundation: The money is nearly all gone, what can we do to keep the Foundation going?

+101 for future audits made publicly available.

[Gleb Gamow]

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-bitcoin-soft-fork-going-eta-increased-block-size-6-months-year/

From left to right, the Bitcoin Foundation team, Jinyoung Englund, Patrick Murck, Gavin Andresen, Helen Disney and Cory Fields. Unfortunately, the team will not be the same people as the Foundation develops further, but they have brought us this far and they brought us the most excellent DevCores.

Helen Disney is the Apple [Fundraising Consultants] in my eye, brought on board by Jinyoung Englund who both are colleagues at http://www.digitalcurrencycouncil.com/

http://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/622-introducing-our-bitcoin-2014-conference-team/

Tonight I'm delighted to introduce the newest addition to our Public Affairs Team - our Bitcoin 2014 Conference Team, led by Nicole Gray Couchar, Founding Director of Apple Fundraising Consultants, Ltd. Our Bitcoin 2014 team is based in London.

Nicole brings over 2 decades of public policy, think tank and capital campaign fundraising experience to our team. She has been entrusted with the management of keystone events by diverse organizations as the Cato Institute, the Ronald Reagan Presidential Foundation, and the Edinburgh Business School and School of Pharmacy. We are excited to have her on the team and look forward to a smashing conference! (Full bio is provided below)

Along with Nicole, we also welcome her associates, Helen Disney and Damien Phillips. (Full bios below)

Helen is the founder and CEO of the Stockholm Network, a leading pan-European think tank. She also brings extensive experience in organizing high-level conferences and policy debates working with partners such as the The Economist and various UN agencies.

Damien is a communications and campaigns professional who has served with various organizations such as the Adam Smith Institute, The Center for Policy Studies and the United Nations Development Program. He also holds an MA in International Relations from the University of St. Andrews.

We're thrilled to have this A-list team join our ranks as we work together to fulfill the foundation's mission to protect, standardize and promote Bitcoin worldwide.

http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Nicole_Gray_Conchar

Conchar's Market House profile is one of three that were listed on the now defunct website of MHI in 2004. The others were of Market House founder Helen Disney and Sacha Kumaria.

Nicole Gray Conchar and Helen Disney go way back.

[BruceFenton]

To be clear, I don't think the audit is a great use of time.  I'd much rather focus on things beneficial to Bitcoin.

Here is the proposed mission statement:

https://github.com/BruceFenton/bitcoinfoundationplan

The more you state that an audit is a great waste of time, the more I wanna see it, akin to the longer it takes for the 2014 taxes to be presented, the more I wanna see it.

Audits are a tool used primarily to 1) find out what happened, 2) uncover unknown problems 3) as a tool to identify faulty employees or help draft new procedures to avoid past problems

We already know what happened:  they made disasterous decisions and ridiculous overspending which, combined with other legit expenses and the Bitcoin price drop caused all the money to be lost.

What would an audit tell us we don't already know?   What action would be able to be taken based on the outcome of an audit?

As I said, happy to support anyone who wants to do an audit.   I just personally think that spending time on other things is more beneficial to Bitcoin.

The 2014 tax data has been released - you do realize that I wasn't there in 2014 and had nothing to do with that spending right?

[Gleb Gamow]

Question: Would you be so kind as to state who over at Reddit mentioned a 10% bounty for uncovering any wrongdoings? His name eludes me at the moment and I don't feel like reading the entire TBF thread over at

Your post has lots of sarcasm so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

I offered the bounty.  How is this inconsistent with anything else I've said such as the other comment noting that it's not accurate to say the foundation needs a new financial manager based on spending by people no longer there?

In one breath, you offered up a 10% bounty to expose corruption, then in another breath you espoused that the past is the past and that we should move on. Via my satire that may allude some, I merely pointed out that consistency while connecting the dots to earn me some eggnog money by me and my consulting firm, Acme Consultant Extraordinaire (ACE), conducting an investigation of an Apple in my eye, to start.

[coins101]

.....
Audits are a tool used primarily to 1) find out what happened, 2) uncover unknown problems 3) as a tool to identify faulty employees or help draft new procedures to avoid past problems ....

Actually, the number one use of audits is to remind people within the organisation that each year they will be held to account. It is actually a good use of time, not for retrospective naval gazing, but as a constant reminder that the organisation is open to scrutiny and so it should drive appropriate behaviour.

[knowhow]

I hope the financials of the bitcoin foundation becomes visible to all,knowing what they are doing with the bitcoin that isnt to benefict the bitcoin,personal wages makes no sense use bitcoin for them but i dont see nothing happening ,nothing new at bitcoin soo whats next?

[BruceFenton]

Question: Would you be so kind as to state who over at Reddit mentioned a 10% bounty for uncovering any wrongdoings? His name eludes me at the moment and I don't feel like reading the entire TBF thread over at

Your post has lots of sarcasm so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

I offered the bounty.  How is this inconsistent with anything else I've said such as the other comment noting that it's not accurate to say the foundation needs a new financial manager based on spending by people no longer there?

In one breath, you offered up a 10% bounty to expose corruption, then in another breath you espoused that the past is the past and that we should move on. Via my satire that may allude some, I merely pointed out that consistency while connecting the dots to earn me some eggnog money by me and my consulting firm, Acme Consultant Extraordinaire (ACE), conducting an investigation of an Apple in my eye, to start.

I think my position is pretty clear and consistent:

- there was wasteful, ridiculous spending and very bad decisions made
- all spending should be publicly known
- people should be held accountable for the actual actions they have done...not the actions of others they are trying to clean up after and who in most cases they never even met
- I support anyone who wants to do an audit, I simply don't have time to spend volunteering to lead one myself- I also think that time is better spent on other things to help Bitcoin
- no one has provided solid evidence of criminal actions but since it's an accusation, I'd welcome information and even offer a bounty for any information proving this and leading to its recovery - again, if someone wants to do the work, they are welcome to

I think that's pretty consistent.

Not sure what the reference to the consulting is about.  Are you aware that I had nothing to do with these consulting contracts whatsoever, no involvement and for the most part have never even met the people involved, let alone worked with them?

[Gleb Gamow]

To be clear, I don't think the audit is a great use of time.  I'd much rather focus on things beneficial to Bitcoin.

Here is the proposed mission statement:

https://github.com/BruceFenton/bitcoinfoundationplan

The more you state that an audit is a great waste of time, the more I wanna see it, akin to the longer it takes for the 2014 taxes to be presented, the more I wanna see it.

Audits are a tool used primarily to 1) find out what happened, 2) uncover unknown problems 3) as a tool to identify faulty employees or help draft new procedures to avoid past problems

We already know what happened:  they made disasterous decisions and ridiculous overspending which, combined with other legit expenses and the Bitcoin price drop caused all the money to be lost.

What would an audit tell us we don't already know?   What action would be able to be taken based on the outcome of an audit?

As I said, happy to support anyone who wants to do an audit.   I just personally think that spending time on other things is more beneficial to Bitcoin.

The 2014 tax data has been released - you do realize that I wasn't there in 2014 and had nothing to do with that spending right?

The audit aside, is it anyway possible for somebody at TBF to take 30 minutes to upload the 2014 tax papers, or is Mrs. Englund searching her Rolodex for a consulting firm she's attached to that'll be more than happy to perform said task at a prevailing rate or ^HIGHER?

[BruceFenton]

.....
Audits are a tool used primarily to 1) find out what happened, 2) uncover unknown problems 3) as a tool to identify faulty employees or help draft new procedures to avoid past problems ....

Actually, the number one use of audits is to remind people within the organisation that each year they will be held to account. It is actually a good use of time, not for retrospective naval gazing, but as a constant reminder that the organisation is open to scrutiny and so it should drive appropriate behaviour.

Sure, audits of people involved with an organization, of course.

But what do we gain by holding to account people who are no longer there.  It's not as if we can hire them back for the purpose of properly firing them.

[Gleb Gamow]

.....
Audits are a tool used primarily to 1) find out what happened, 2) uncover unknown problems 3) as a tool to identify faulty employees or help draft new procedures to avoid past problems ....

Actually, the number one use of audits is to remind people within the organisation that each year they will be held to account. It is actually a good use of time, not for retrospective naval gazing, but as a constant reminder that the organisation is open to scrutiny and so it should drive appropriate behaviour.

Look, bud, if Bruce Fenton says it's a waste of time, it's a waste time. It's also a waste of time to dig into the past of TBF's affairs in spite of there now being a 10% bounty to seek out past corruption.

[Gleb Gamow]

Question: Would you be so kind as to state who over at Reddit mentioned a 10% bounty for uncovering any wrongdoings? His name eludes me at the moment and I don't feel like reading the entire TBF thread over at

Your post has lots of sarcasm so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

I offered the bounty.  How is this inconsistent with anything else I've said such as the other comment noting that it's not accurate to say the foundation needs a new financial manager based on spending by people no longer there?

In one breath, you offered up a 10% bounty to expose corruption, then in another breath you espoused that the past is the past and that we should move on. Via my satire that may allude some, I merely pointed out that consistency while connecting the dots to earn me some eggnog money by me and my consulting firm, Acme Consultant Extraordinaire (ACE), conducting an investigation of an Apple in my eye, to start.

I think my position is pretty clear and consistent:

- there was wasteful, ridiculous spending and very bad decisions made
- all spending should be publicly known
- people should be held accountable for the actual actions they have done...not the actions of others they are trying to clean up after and who in most cases they never even met
- I support anyone who wants to do an audit, I simply don't have time to spend volunteering to lead one myself- I also think that time is better spent on other things to help Bitcoin
- no one has provided solid evidence of criminal actions but since it's an accusation, I'd welcome information and even offer a bounty for any information proving this and leading to its recovery - again, if someone wants to do the work, they are welcome to

I think that's pretty consistent.

Not sure what the reference to the consulting is about.  Are you aware that I had nothing to do with these consulting contracts whatsoever, no involvement and for the most part have never even met the people involved, let alone worked with them?

Will you use "I had nothing to do..." when it comes time to dole out a 10% bounty, thus nullifying any exposures?

[BruceFenton]

The audit aside, is it anyway possible for somebody at TBF to take 30 minutes to upload the 2014 tax papers, or is Mrs. Englund searching her Rolodex for a consulting firm she's attached to that'll be more than happy to perform said task at a prevailing rate or ^HIGHER?

Not sure why you keep bringing up people as if I had some association with them or as if they were involved with the foundation.  Englund is not there and hasn't been since three hours after I joined.

Is your real anger in all this over the fact that I didn't see to it that the 990 form was posted earlier?   If so, guilty as charged.   I took responsibility, I'm sorry.  I'm a volunteer, I was removing from an accident, the webmaster is also a volunteer and we were switching web servers at the time (because I was not even given a useable password to the old website).  So yes, sorry the forms covering a time period I had nothing whatsoever to do with were not posted online earlier.  

[Gleb Gamow]

.....
Audits are a tool used primarily to 1) find out what happened, 2) uncover unknown problems 3) as a tool to identify faulty employees or help draft new procedures to avoid past problems ....

Actually, the number one use of audits is to remind people within the organisation that each year they will be held to account. It is actually a good use of time, not for retrospective naval gazing, but as a constant reminder that the organisation is open to scrutiny and so it should drive appropriate behaviour.

Sure, audits of people involved with an organization, of course.

But what do we gain by holding to account people who are no longer there.  It's not as if we can hire them back for the purpose of properly firing them.

Are you goin' on record in stating that Englund and Disney are no longer part of TBF?

[Gleb Gamow]

The audit aside, is it anyway possible for somebody at TBF to take 30 minutes to upload the 2014 tax papers, or is Mrs. Englund searching her Rolodex for a consulting firm she's attached to that'll be more than happy to perform said task at a prevailing rate or ^HIGHER?

Not sure why you keep bringing up people as if I had some association with them or as if they were involved with the foundation.  Englund is not there and hasn't been since three hours after I joined.

Is your real anger in all this over the fact that I didn't see to it that the 990 form was posted earlier?   If so, guilt as charged.   I took responsibility, I'm sorry.  I'm a volunteer, I was removing from an accident, the webmaster is also a volunteer and we were switching web servers at the time (because I was not even given a useable password to the old website).  So yes, sorry the forms covering a time period I had nothing whatsoever to do with were not posted online earlier.  

What is the new timeline in uploading the 2014 tax returns?

[BruceFenton]

Will you use "I had nothing to do..." when it comes time to dole out a 10% bounty, thus nullifying any exposures?

So you are now implying that I did have something to do with this?

You have a calendar right?   These financials in the OP end on January 1 2015,  more than four months before I volunteered to try to fix the mess.

Is your theory that they didn't actually lose the massive amount of money they said they lost and that they secretly left me a bunch of other money to work with that I then secretly lost?

I get you are angry but be logical and place blame where blame is due.  I volunteered to attempt to clean up a mess.  Attacking at me is no more logical than criticising a firefighter for being associated with arsonists.

[BruceFenton]

What is the new timeline in uploading the 2014 tax returns?

Seriously?

They are up http://bitcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2014-990-FINAL.pdf

Have been since this issue was brought up yesterday.

[coins101]

.....
Audits are a tool used primarily to 1) find out what happened, 2) uncover unknown problems 3) as a tool to identify faulty employees or help draft new procedures to avoid past problems ....

Actually, the number one use of audits is to remind people within the organisation that each year they will be held to account. It is actually a good use of time, not for retrospective naval gazing, but as a constant reminder that the organisation is open to scrutiny and so it should drive appropriate behaviour.

Look, bud, if Bruce Fenton says it's a waste of time, it's a waste time. It's also a waste of time to dig into the past of TBF's affairs in spite of there now being a 10% bounty to seek out past corruption.

Actually, I'm not interested in what has already happened here....I'm more interested in looking forwards.

It should be a part of the Foundation's constitution that it will be audited and that the audits will be made public. That is it. What has happened is water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned, provided people are confident that there was no criminal activity with any of the payments.

[Gleb Gamow]

Will you use "I had nothing to do..." when it comes time to dole out a 10% bounty, thus nullifying any exposures?

So you are now implying that I did have something to do with this?

You have a calendar right?   These financials in the OP end on January 1 2015,  more than four months before I volunteered to try to fix the mess.

Is your theory that they didn't actually lose the massive amount of money they said they lost and that they secretly left me a bunch of other money to work with that I then secretly lost?

I get you are angry but be logical and place blame where blame is due.  I volunteered to attempt to clean up a mess.  Attacking at me is no more logical than criticising a firefighter for being associated with arsonists.

Again, I think you missed the mark as to what I was alluding to.

[Gleb Gamow]

What is the new timeline in uploading the 2014 tax returns?

Seriously?

They are up http://bitcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2014-990-FINAL.pdf

Have been since this issue was brought up yesterday.

Seriously, this is the first I've seen a link to it. And how was it that you didn't provide the link earlier in this thread after the first time I mentioned it, or the second, or the third?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

So just to be clear: This is the guy who jumped on the ship while anyone with integrity was jumping off?

[BruceFenton]

Are you goin' on record in stating that Englund and Disney are no longer part of TBF?

Absolutely.   Look, I get you are angry.  I am too.  How do you think I feel seeing all this wasted money and opportunity?   
But please base things on accurate data.  Your posts seem to indicate that you have a different idea of what my involvement is and others since I came aboard.

In April I volunteered to help clean up the mess of the foundation.  I came aboard and got a handful of passwords and the contact info for a part time bookeeper.  There were zero other employees.   The first day or so I was in the role I tweeted the Bitcoin and bank balance she told me.
I added one other part time employee to run operations and added a few volunteers.

Englund and Disney have had absolutely no involvement with the Bitcoin Foundation since I volunteered.  Jinyoung tendered her resignation, effective immediately within hours of me volunteering.  Disney was gone even before that.

I never had any involvement with Disney whatsoever and never even heard the name until I volunteered and saw her on an email list.

The only interaction I had with Jinyoung was the previous year when she had me appointed as the chair of the poverty committee when Andreas left and then subsequently had be fired from that committee few days later because she was angry that I reached out to Andreas and asked for his advice and thoughts on the committee.

[BruceFenton]

Seriously, this is the first I've seen a link to it. And how was it that you didn't provide the link earlier in this thread after the first time I mentioned it, or the second, or the third?

I thought it was clear that I had fixed the problem and you knew it was up.

[BruceFenton]

So just to be clear: This is the guy who jumped on the ship while anyone with integrity was jumping off?

Who are you talking about?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

But didn't everybody resign when Brock Pierce slithered on? Or am I thinking of another Bitcoin Foundation??

[Gleb Gamow]

So just to be clear: This is the guy who jumped on the ship while anyone with integrity was jumping off?

http://bitcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2014-990-FINAL.pdf



http://www.coinfox.info/news/persons/1841-brucefenton

According to his personal website, Bruce Fenton began his career in the financial sector at Morgan Stanley, where he was one of the firm’s youngest stockbrokers. In later years, he participated in many ventures and founded Atlantic Financial and Gulf Advisors Group. According to his bio on Twitter, Fenton is a “Bitcoiner, traveler & freedom loving techno geek”.

Bruce Fenton takes leadership at an important juncture. Recently, the Bitcoin Foundation was shaken by a new scandal coming from the very top of the organization. One of the newly elected Board members, Olivier Jannsens, published a Reddit post in which he stated that the Foundation is close to bankruptcy. Jannsens also stated that the Foundation’s executive director, Patrick Murck, would be leaving his post within two weeks and the Foundation was searching for a replacement. The development of the bitcoin core was also under question, according to the post.

The Bitcoin Foundation denounced Jannsens’ letter and said that it does not contain any serious facts. Nevertheless, the scandal shook the bitcoin community. As CoinFox reported earlier today, an MIT professor suggested creating a new platform for bitcoin development that would be independent from the Bitcoin Foundation.

I guess technically $336,337 isn't considered being bankrupt even after spending ~$4.3M the year prior, with all of 2014 still ahead.

[BruceFenton]

But didn't everybody resign when Brock Pierce slithered on? Or am I thinking of another Bitcoin Foundation??

The only one I'm aware of who resigned was Olivier, then then came back and was voted off by the board and has resigned again

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

But didn't everybody resign when Brock Pierce slithered on? Or am I thinking of another Bitcoin Foundation??

The only one I'm aware of who resigned was Olivier, then then came back and was voted off by the board and has resigned again

Um:

At least 10 members of the nonprofit Bitcoin Foundation have resigned over last week's election of onetime Disney child star and current Bitcoin entrepreneur and financier Brock Pierce as a new director, officials at the group said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-foundation-resignations-idUSBREA4F02B20140516

[BruceFenton]

The Bitcoin Foundation denounced Jannsens’ letter and said that it does not contain any serious facts.Nevertheless, the scandal shook the bitcoin community.

I guess technically $336,337 isn't considered being bankrupt even after spending ~$4.3M the year prior, with all of 2014 still ahead.

Jannsens original post on Reddit was mostly accurate (although in my opinion a bit unprofessional and sensational and with some technical errors such as the term bankruptcy)

When I volunteered I had the foundation statement you mention above denouncing Jannsens post deleted because I didn't think it was accurate.

[Gleb Gamow]

Are you goin' on record in stating that Englund and Disney are no longer part of TBF?

Absolutely.   Look, I get you are angry.  I am too.  How do you think I feel seeing all this wasted money and opportunity?   
But please base things on accurate data.  Your posts seem to indicate that you have a different idea of what my involvement is and others since I came aboard.

In April I volunteered to help clean up the mess of the foundation.  I came aboard and got a handful of passwords and the contact info for a part time bookeeper.  There were zero other employees.   The first day or so I was in the role I tweeted the Bitcoin and bank balance she told me.
I added one other part time employee to run operations and added a few volunteers.

Englund and Disney have had absolutely no involvement with the Bitcoin Foundation since I volunteered.  Jinyoung tendered her resignation, effective immediately within hours of me volunteering.  Disney was gone even before that.

I never had any involvement with Disney whatsoever and never even heard the name until I volunteered and saw her on an email list.

The only interaction I had with Jinyoung was the previous year when she had me appointed as the chair of the poverty committee when Andreas left and then subsequently had be fired from that committee few days later because she was angry that I reached out to Andreas and asked for his advice and thoughts on the committee.

April 13, 2015: Bruce Fenton elected to the Board.

April 22, 2015: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/gavin-andresen-bitcoin-soft-fork-going-eta-increased-block-size-6-months-year/



How was it possible that did you not come across Englund or Disney?

[Gleb Gamow]

Seriously, this is the first I've seen a link to it. And how was it that you didn't provide the link earlier in this thread after the first time I mentioned it, or the second, or the third?

I thought it was clear that I had fixed the problem and you knew it was up.

I guess it wasn't clear to me, akin to you not being able to understand my satire.

[BruceFenton]

But didn't everybody resign when Brock Pierce slithered on? Or am I thinking of another Bitcoin Foundation??

The only one I'm aware of who resigned was Olivier, then then came back and was voted off by the board and has resigned again

Um:

At least 10 members of the nonprofit Bitcoin Foundation have resigned over last week's election of onetime Disney child star and current Bitcoin entrepreneur and financier Brock Pierce as a new director, officials at the group said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-foundation-resignations-idUSBREA4F02B20140516

Okay, thx for the link.  I didn't follow the story much at the time.  I thought the scandal it was primarily based on accusations which were not proven.

[Gleb Gamow]

So just to be clear: This is the guy who jumped on the ship while anyone with integrity was jumping off?

Who are you talking about?

I'm gonna take a guess and say that BMB (that stands of BlindMayorBitcorn) is referring to Private Barton W. Mitchell. How close am I, BMB?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

But didn't everybody resign when Brock Pierce slithered on? Or am I thinking of another Bitcoin Foundation??

The only one I'm aware of who resigned was Olivier, then then came back and was voted off by the board and has resigned again

Um:

At least 10 members of the nonprofit Bitcoin Foundation have resigned over last week's election of onetime Disney child star and current Bitcoin entrepreneur and financier Brock Pierce as a new director, officials at the group said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-foundation-resignations-idUSBREA4F02B20140516

Okay, thx for the link.  I didn't follow the story much at the time.  I thought the scandal it was primarily based on accusations which were not proven.

Hmm.

[BruceFenton]

How was it possible that did you not come across Englund or Disney?

From the article and people in it, my best guess is that the photo in the article was from DevCore London which was going on almost the same time as I volunteered, I think a couple days after.

I didn't attend this event or have anything to do with it.   I never heard of Helen until after I started.  Already explained that I dealt with Jinyoung the previous year.

I haven't met or spoken to either of them since I volunteered,  my only contact has been briefly by email to ask Jinyoung for a password and forwarding a question that Helen had about her tax withholding to the bookeeper.

They had existing pay for the final pay period which was approved by the previous Executive Director - I never have authorized any further new pay to either of them and they haven't done any foundation work since I volunteered.

[Blawpaw]

It seems like in Bitcoin Foundation all they do is spend money.

About a month or two ago there was a post saying they spent a lot of money in just one trip to England... I guess you can imagine in what more they spend...

[Gleb Gamow]

Bruce, you claimed that your accident was the reason for not providing the tax form earlier, but I, among others, can now clearly see that an extension was asked for and safely assumed granted till August 15, 2015, to file.

[BruceFenton]

It seems like in Bitcoin Foundation all they do is spend money.

About a month or two ago there was a post saying they spent a lot of money in just one trip to England... I guess you can imagine in what more they spend...

The current people at the foundation were not involved with this spending and spending now is far lower

[BruceFenton]

Bruce, you claimed that your accident was the reason for not providing the tax form earlier, but I, among others, can now clearly see that an extension was asked for and safely assumed granted till August 15, 2015, to file.

Okay....?

Not sure what you are getting at.   

An extension was filed, the return completed and then not put up as quickly as would have been ideal.

I said the accident was one of a handful of reasons for the delay in posting it online.

[rizzlarolla]

Bruce could you clarify for me please.
I have been following neucoin. (shit/scamcoin)
Neucoin claim Brock Pierce as a strategic adviser. Is he?

neucoin say of Brock "I am not aware of this specific allegation against Brock, [co-founder of IGE says he stole $200,000 of stock from the company] but so far we have never had any problems with him."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/team-foundation-concerns/567

I have a problem with him. Bitcoin doesn't need this any more and cannot come clean with board members of this elk.

BTW. Also Paul keane shills for neucoin "I am a very active Bitcoin Foundation Committee Member and Core Developer." Is he?
http://forum.neucoin.org/users/pkeane4osu/activity

Are these two people really Bitcoin foundation board members?
If so, they have no cred with me.

(ps thanks for the christmas change tip)

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Bruce could you clarify for me please.
I have been following neucoin. (shit/scamcoin)
Neucoin claim Brock Pierce as a strategic adviser. Is he?

neucoin say of Brock "I am not aware of this specific allegation against Brock, [co-founder of IGE says he stole $200,000 of stock from the company] but so far we have never had any problems with him."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/team-foundation-concerns/567

I have a problem with him. Bitcoin doesn't need this any more and cannot come clean with board members of this elk.

BTW. Also Paul keane shills for neucoin "I am a very active Bitcoin Foundation Committee Member and Core Developer." Is he?
http://forum.neucoin.org/users/pkeane4osu/activity

Are these two people really Bitcoin foundation board members?
If so, they have no cred with me.

(ps thanks for the christmas change tip)

Brock Pierce is running the whole show now. Put that in your pipe and try to smoke it.

[BruceFenton]

Bruce could you clarify for me please.
I have been following neucoin. (shit/scamcoin)
Neucoin claim Brock Pierce as a strategic adviser. Is he?

neucoin say of Brock "I am not aware of this specific allegation against Brock, [co-founder of IGE says he stole $200,000 of stock from the company] but so far we have never had any problems with him."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/team-foundation-concerns/567

I have a problem with him. Bitcoin doesn't need this any more and cannot come clean with board members of this elk.

BTW. Also Paul keane shills for neucoin "I am a very active Bitcoin Foundation Committee Member and Core Developer." Is he?
http://forum.neucoin.org/users/pkeane4osu/activity

Are these two people really Bitcoin foundation board members?
If so, they have no cred with me.

(ps thanks for the christmas change tip)

I've never heard of Paul Keane but that alone doesn't mean he's lying, he could be active on a committee I'm not aware of.

You'd be best off asking Brock about anything you have a concern about regarding him.

[BruceFenton]

Brock Pierce is running the whole show now. Put that in your pipe and try to smoke it.

There are seven board members, each with an equal vote.

It's amusing to see speculation that there is some sort of power grab as if people involved have snatched the Ring of Sauron from Lord of the Rings.   Likely everyone involved has more money on our phones than the foundation

[rizzlarolla]

I will not be talking to Brock Pierce. (Unless he comes here. He should come here)

My point being, The Bitcoin foundation is dead in the water with these scam (accused) ridden members. rightly or wrongly.

Cough, cough, cough.  I need to stop smoking this shit.

Edit. Bruce, could you find out Paul Keanes' involvement with the foundation, if any?
If he is not what he says, it needs correcting.

[BruceFenton]

I will not be talking to Brock Pierce. (Unless he comes here. He should come here)

My point being, The Bitcoin foundation is dead in the water with these scam (accused) ridden members. rightly or wrongly.

Cough, cough, cough.  I need to stop smoking this shit.

What are you actually accusing him of specifically?  What other members are you referring to?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Brock Pierce is running the whole show now. Put that in your pipe and try to smoke it.

There are seven board members, each with an equal vote.

It's amusing to see speculation that there is some sort of power grab as if people involved have snatched the Ring of Sauron from Lord of the Rings.   Likely everyone involved has more money on our phones than the foundation

I'm glad I amuse you, but let me be clear. I'm not here to speculate. I'm here to suggest to you that:

a. If you don't know the history of your own foundation, then you're probably a potato; and
b. Nobody wants anything to do with Brock Pierce, chairman of the board of said foundation.

Thank you and good day, sir.

*tosses scarf*

[Bitcoinpro]

And where was the protector of Justice

Frankie

while all this was going on ?





PS: Frankie works for a government agency and gangstalks my posts

[BruceFenton]

Edit. Bruce, could you find out Paul Keanes' involvement with the foundation, if any?
If he is not what he says, it needs correcting.

It's hard to prove a negative.  If someone asked about a member I knew it would be easy.

I just looked through my database, email and notes and didn't immediately see any reference to him.  But this doesn't prove he lied.   He could have volunteered on a committee and maybe only one committee chair (or even worse, an ex-committee chair) is the only one who knows.   If you are concerned you might ask him specifics -- if someone said they were a board member or they drafted the Bitlicense response or something that's pretty easy to verify.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I, for one, welcome our new transparent overlords.
Leave Bruce alone ugais.

Bruce, for 10% omission I'll sell memberships & ...do other stuff.

But I already tossed my scarf. 

[Bitcoinpro]

Brock Pierce is running the whole show now. Put that in your pipe and try to smoke it.

There are seven board members, each with an equal vote.

It's amusing to see speculation that there is some sort of power grab as if people involved have snatched the Ring of Sauron from Lord of the Rings.   Likely everyone involved has more money on our phones than the foundation

The ring of losers springs to mind

ever heard of TF?

its hilarious watching u come in here and keep trying ur silly tactics

fraud and nonsense

[rizzlarolla]

Bruce, I am not accusing anyone directly. I dont have the time, or the evidence.

My point. I am a bitcoiner. I'm sick of scam after scam.

You want to reserect the foundation.
It needs board members who are squeaky clean.
I do not trust some members, rightly or wrongly.

Just trying to show what you are up against.
I will seriously think of dumping out of Bitcoin if this continues to be acceptable.
No problem, Im only one Bitcoin user.

I'm sorry you did ask for direct accusations OP
"I dont have the time, or the evidence." I suspect like most Bitcoiners.
But I cannot support this. Like most silent users?

Edit. Bruce if you catch this. Paul claims "active bitcoin foundation committee member" Either he is or not? (or not)

[BruceFenton]

 let me be clear. I'm not here to speculate. I'm here to suggest to you that:

a. If you don't know the history of your own foundation, then you're probably a potato; and
b. Nobody wants anything to do with Brock Pierce, chairman of the board of said foundation.

I do know the history of the foundation:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done as well as a big drop in Bitcoin price.

As for Brock, he was elected by a majority of members, so I wouldn't say "no one" wants him.   Do you have a specific accusation about him?

[Fatman3001]

Brock Pierce is running the whole show now. Put that in your pipe and try to smoke it.

There are seven board members, each with an equal vote.

It's amusing to see speculation that there is some sort of power grab as if people involved have snatched the Ring of Sauron from Lord of the Rings.   Likely everyone involved has more money on our phones than the foundation

Hmmmm...

First, LOTR reference.

Then, brags about being rich.

This is really difficult.

Hmmmmmm...

Ok Frodo, you're going to Hollywood!!!

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Were there any corporate trips to Vegas (spending our money).

Hookers & blow etc.

[Bitcoinpro]

I, for one, welcome our new transparent overlords.
Leave Bruce alone ugais.

Bruce, for 10% omission I'll sell memberships & ...do other stuff.

But I already tossed my scarf. 

Was this a BF scarf?

Did u throw it in a fire would have been one of the most

profitable things ever done with company property

[Bitcoinpro]

Were there any corporate trips to Vegas (spending our money).

Hookers & blow etc.

Nah fatties n salt

[BruceFenton]

Bruce, I am not accusing anyone directly. I dont have the time, or the evidence.

But did it occur to you that no matter how "squeaky clean" someone is that they will still be attacked?

[BruceFenton]

Then, brags about being rich.

You think $12k is "rich"?

[Bitcoinpro]

Brock Pierce is running the whole show now. Put that in your pipe and try to smoke it.

There are seven board members, each with an equal vote.

It's amusing to see speculation that there is some sort of power grab as if people involved have snatched the Ring of Sauron from Lord of the Rings.   Likely everyone involved has more money on our phones than the foundation

Hmmmm...

First, LOTR reference.

Then, brags about being rich.

This is really difficult.

Hmmmmmm...

Ok Frodo, you're going to Hollywood!!!

[Bitcoinpro]

Then, brags about being rich.

You think $12k is "rich"?

yeah but we are talking about dirty rags here

[BruceFenton]

yeah but we are talking about dirty rags here

Not sure what your point or goal is

[Gleb Gamow]

I, for one, welcome our new transparent overlords.
Leave Bruce alone ugais.

Bruce, for 10% omission I'll sell memberships & ...do other stuff.

But I already tossed my scarf. 

Dudes, I have first dibs on Apple, with THEPOLICYCOUNCILCOM INC being next on my list after I finish reading the tax filing. (just finished cooking, serving and eating dinner, hence behind)

[Bitcoinpro]

yeah but we are talking about dirty rags here

Not sure what your point or goal is

your not the one to be big noting yourself about goals

[BruceFenton]

Bruce, Is the Junior Scientist position still open? Also interested in Vice presidency, if that's still up for grabs.
P.S. Have you considered MLM membership drive?

I know this is an attempt to be clever, but I don't get it, sorry.  Ask a real question, of if you have a specific critique of something I've done, happy to reply

[BruceFenton]

your not the one to be big noting yourself about goals

Do adults really have time to speak in cryptic nonsense?   What specific action have I taken that you have a problem with?

[rizzlarolla]

Bruce, I am not accusing anyone directly. I dont have the time, or the evidence.

But did it occur to you that no matter how "squeaky clean" someone is that they will still be attacked?

They would be scrutinised. Goes with the territory I fear.
I want to wish you luck Bruce, but if you sit with Brock, I cant.

I'm only one person. You carry on. Thanks.

[Gleb Gamow]

 let me be clear. I'm not here to speculate. I'm here to suggest to you that:

a. If you don't know the history of your own foundation, then you're probably a potato; and
b. Nobody wants anything to do with Brock Pierce, chairman of the board of said foundation.

I do know the history of the foundation:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done as well as a big drop in Bitcoin price.

As for Brock, he was elected by a majority of members, so I wouldn't say "no one" wants him.   Do you have a specific accusation about him?

With all due respect, All, I'm backing away from this subject in spite it was my research that uncovered the majority of Brock's past, with Brock even patting me on the back - twice - for my Google-fu skills, same true from the Radar reporter and a couple others I've opted to not name.

[RoadStress]

I have a question for you BruceFenton. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this and with the Foundation? What is the plan in the short and long term? Are you trying to raise more funds? Do you simply want a new and clean Foundation? If not this then what else?

[BruceFenton]

I do know the history of the foundation The Nazi Party:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done

Fixed.
Welcome aboard, Bruce. Wash the windows, hang a few curtains, and remember: the stench of prussic acid is easily masked by today's potent air fresheners.

Godwin's Law didn't take long to take hold.  

Just to be clear, are comparing me and others involved in a non-profit Bitcoin group to the Nazi Party who killed 6 million people?  All because the previous administration wasted money?

Is that correct, or was it just an attempt to be funny with a Nazi reference?

[Gleb Gamow]

Then, brags about being rich.

You think $12k is "rich"?

Don't make me post your tweet depicting your proposed $250,000 USD donation.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Bruce, I am not accusing anyone directly. I dont have the time, or the evidence.

But did it occur to you that no matter how "squeaky clean" someone is that they will still be attacked?

This is a community not particularly enamered with banksters. You're not squeaky clean by most Bitcoiner standards. But we're treating you with respect; anyway we're not attacking you. I personally appreciate that you are so willing to come clean about someone else's mismanagement. But the way I remember it, all the good guys left for the MIT Media Lab Digital Currency Initiative when TBF imploded.

Whoever's left got to sit with Brock at the kiddy table. So to speak...


@Fatty My phone is worth more than that.

[Fatman3001]

Then, brags about being rich.

You think $12k is "rich"?

Likely everyone involved has more money on our phones than the foundation

I know some pretty rich people, and they ain't keepin $12k on their phones. If you're all lumbering around with all you money on your phones you really should be more careful. Those phones are "precious" (Giggle, giggle! Ok, I'm not as good at LOTR references as you).

[Bitcoinpro]

your not the one to be big noting yourself about goals

Do adults really have time to speak in cryptic nonsense?   What specific action have I taken that you have a problem with?

its the actions that BF didn't take was the problem and u got those right pretty well

[Bitcoinpro]

Bruce, I am not accusing anyone directly. I dont have the time, or the evidence.

But did it occur to you that no matter how "squeaky clean" someone is that they will still be attacked?

This is a community not particularly enamered with banksters. You're not squeaky clean by most Bitcoiner standards. But we're treating you with respect; anyway we're not attacking you. I personally appreciate that you are so willing to come clean about someone else's mismanagement. But the way I remember it, all the good guys left for the MIT Media Lab Digital Currency Initiative when TBF imploded.

Whoever's left gets to sit with Brock at the kiddy table. So to speak...

I wonder wat his idea an attack is considering the reputation of BF

people are being nice, he definately has a forked tongue and his

intentions here are very questionable as to wat his goals realy are

seems like some kind of baiting stunt

[BruceFenton]

its the actions that BF didn't take was the problem and u got those right pretty well

Again, what specific act that I was responsible for are you upset with?    

[LFC_Bitcoin]

I have a question for you BruceFenton. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this and with the Foundation? What is the plan in the short and long term? Are you trying to raise more funds? Do you simply want a new and clean Foundation? If not this then what else?

All joking aside it'd be good to see his answer to this ^^

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I have a question for you BruceFenton. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this and with the Foundation? What is the plan in the short and long term? Are you trying to raise more funds? Do you simply want a new and clean Foundation? If not this then what else?

All joking aside it'd be good to see his answer to this ^^

[Bitcoinpro]

its the actions that BF didn't take was the problem and u got those right pretty well

Again, what specific act that I was responsible for are you upset with?    

your a walking clown, extremely self centred, its all about u right

lol

[BruceFenton]

I have a question for you BruceFenton. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this and with the Foundation? What is the plan in the short and long term? Are you trying to raise more funds? Do you simply want a new and clean Foundation? If not this then what else?

The goal is to have an organization with a clear and defined mission and those who agree with that mission can support it.

Here is the draft out for comment.

https://github.com/BruceFenton/bitcoinfoundationplan

[Bitcoinpro]

I have a question for you BruceFenton. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this and with the Foundation? What is the plan in the short and long term? Are you trying to raise more funds? Do you simply want a new and clean Foundation? If not this then what else?

All joking aside it'd be good to see his answer to this ^^

Stealing everyones coin, seems we cant get rid of the weasels

prob has TF's number on speed dial

im roping em in again but telling em we gonna

put BF back on track, ill have ur logo back up

soon bud

[Gleb Gamow]

your not the one to be big noting yourself about goals

Do adults really have time to speak in cryptic nonsense?   What specific action have I taken that you have a problem with?

Is it humanly possible that Nick Szabo smiles more than you do? (I'll leave it to others to explain the joke if it flies over anybody's head)

[BruceFenton]

Again, what specific act that I was responsible for are you upset with?    

your a walking clown, extremely self centred, its all about u right

lol

You responded to a comment I made and said
"your not the one to be big noting yourself about goals"

Who were you talking to?

[BruceFenton]

Stealing everyones coin, seems we cant get rid of the weasels

prob has TF's number on speed dial

im roping em in again but telling em we gonna

put BF back on track, ill have ur logo back up

soon bud

I have no idea what you are talking about or who you are talking to.

[Gleb Gamow]

I do know the history of the foundation The Nazi Party:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done

Fixed.
Welcome aboard, Bruce. Wash the windows, hang a few curtains, and remember: the stench of prussic acid is easily masked by today's potent air fresheners.

Godwin's Law didn't take long to take hold.  

Just to be clear, are comparing me and others involved in a non-profit Bitcoin group to the Nazi Party who killed 6 million people?  All because the previous administration wasted money?

Is that correct, or was it just an attempt to be funny with a Nazi reference?

Let us pray to Jehovah that historians don't look into the late US senator Prescott Bush's past making a connection because the past is the past, thus not indicative of...


"Me thinketh satire, but no [sic] sure."

[Bitcoinpro]

Bruce, Is the Junior Scientist position still open? Also interested in Vice presidency, if that's still up for grabs.
P.S. Have you considered MLM membership drive?

Junior scientist would be quite an affluent role for this company

[Bitcoinpro]

Again, what specific act that I was responsible for are you upset with?    

your a walking clown, extremely self centred, its all about u right

lol

You responded to a comment I made and said
"your not the one to be big noting yourself about goals"

Who were you talking to?

this is hilarious

[Bitcoinpro]

Stealing everyones coin, seems we cant get rid of the weasels

prob has TF's number on speed dial

im roping em in again but telling em we gonna

put BF back on track, ill have ur logo back up

soon bud

I have no idea what you are talking about or who you are talking to.

He has no idea about Trade Fortress

this guy is a professional liar

but lets not highlight his better characteristics

[BruceFenton]

He has no idea about Trade Fortress

this guy is a professional liar

but lets not highlight his better characteristics

Okay,  come forward with any evidence of any time I have lied.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

 let me be clear. I'm not here to speculate. I'm here to suggest to you that:

a. If you don't know the history of your own foundation, then you're probably a potato; and
b. Nobody wants anything to do with Brock Pierce, chairman of the board of said foundation.

I do know the history of the foundation:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done as well as a big drop in Bitcoin price.

As for Brock, he was elected by a majority of members, so I wouldn't say "no one" wants him.   Do you have a specific accusation about him?

Did you do any kind of research before accepting your new position? And by "research" of course I mean Google.

[BruceFenton]

Did you do any kind of research before accepting your new position? And by "research" of course I mean Google.

Are you people incapable of actually openly and honestly saying what is on your mind?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Did you do any kind of research before accepting your new position? And by "research" of course I mean Google.

Are you people incapable of actually openly and honestly saying what is on your mind?

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

[gentlemand]

What is it with crypto organisations and getting ravaged by the falling bitcoin price? Ethereum scuppered themselves too. Like it or not they should've secured their finances to an extent.

[BruceFenton]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

[Fatman3001]

I do know the history of the foundation The Nazi Party:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done

Fixed.
Welcome aboard, Bruce. Wash the windows, hang a few curtains, and remember: the stench of prussic acid is easily masked by today's potent air fresheners.

Godwin's Law didn't take long to take hold.  

Just to be clear, are comparing me and others involved in a non-profit Bitcoin group to the Nazi Party who killed 6 million people?  All because the previous administration wasted money?

Is that correct, or was it just an attempt to be funny with a Nazi reference?

The Nazis killed somewhere between 20 and 30 million people. Not that I see the relevance, but that's a lot of dead people missing. BF was never real good with numbers so I thought I'd give you a heads up.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

I shouldn't have had to tell you that 10 members of the board resigned upon the election of Brock Pierce, and I shouldn't have to tell you what kind of man he is.

[Fatman3001]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

I shouldn't have had to tell you that 10 members of the board resigned upon the election of Brock Pierce, and I shouldn't have to tell you what kind of man he is.

But you use lots of words to not tell him. I think we can conclude that bitcoiners aren't all that economical.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

I shouldn't have had to tell you that 10 members of the board resigned upon the election of Brock Pierce, and I shouldn't have to tell you what kind of man he is.

But you use lots of words to not tell him. I think we can conclude that bitcoiners aren't all that economical.

I was trying to be polite.

[BruceFenton]

I shouldn't have had to tell you that 10 members of the board resigned upon the election of Brock Pierce, and I shouldn't have to tell you what kind of man he is.

I wasn't involved with the foundation when the people resigned.  I do recall accusations of him being a "child mollester" by the same brand of ignorant low brow, logic-free people on this thread....despite no criminal accusation, investigation or indictment...let alone trial.  But maybe that's how you folks roll...damn the facts, slander is fun.

Perhaps that's what you are referring to...I can't know for sure because you are, for whatever reason, incapable of simply stating what your accusation is.

[BruceFenton]

Your goal is to have a clearly stated goal?
You don't find this a bit evasive, as in "playing games"?

You conveniently leave out the 2-3 page mission statement.

[BruceFenton]

>despite no criminal accusation, investigation or indictment
Please. Despite substantial civil settlement to avoid criminal investigation and indictment.

Oh neat.  In addition to being a newbie to the forums and a journalist, Little Mermaid is also a criminal law attorney.

So how does this work exactly....I'm sure hundreds of thousands in the justice system would love to know.

You pay a "civil settlement" in order to "avoid investigation and indictment" -- really?   At what phase does that actually occur...the DAs office?   The police?  Do police get a list of people they don't investigate because a settlement has been made?   Do people making these magic settlements have to do it really fast before the police investigate or does the magic settlement also erase past investigations?

Really curious how this works as you seem to be a huge expert on many topics.

[BruceFenton]

Your goal is to have a clearly stated goal?

And yes, by the way, that is exactly the goal at this stage -- to have a goal -- I should have said set of goals or mission statement.  It was put out for member comment

[Gleb Gamow]

Did you do any kind of research before accepting your new position? And by "research" of course I mean Google.

Are you people incapable of actually openly and honestly saying what is on your mind?

With apologies, I'm now confused.   What does me not openly and honestly saying what's on my mind have to do with my dire situation of replenishing my eggnog stock, hopin' to restock once paid a 10% bounty that equates to approximately a hundred bucks if my maths' correct (113,833 X 10% = ~$100 Worth of Quarts of Eggnog)?

March 6, 2015 at 10:32 GMT: http://www.coindesk.com/jim-harper-2015-will-rebuild-the-bitcoin-foundation/

"Campaigns tend be about high drama and broad statements of principle."

That’s Jim Harper, the Bitcoin Foundation’s newly elected board member and former global policy council, discussing the recent election in which he and Olivier Janssens triumphed amid controversies over voter turnout and cries that the organisation should be disbanded.

Harper is keen to move the Bitcoin Foundation on to more practical concerns when he joins the seven-person board that will include BTC China CEO Bobby Lee; Ribbit Capital's Meyer 'Micky' Malka; venture capitalist Brock Pierce; BitPay's Elizabeth Ploshay; Janssens; and soon, a member to be elected to a new international seat.

http://bitcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2014-990-FINAL.pdf



<no satire, for it has a tendency to confuse some people> Jim Harper is ThePolicyCouncil.com INC award $113,833 for services in 2014. <no satire, for it has a tendency to confuse some people>

ThePolicyCouncil.com was never indexed by The Wayback Machine (archive.org for those unfamiliar as to how Google works, with apologies for the satire).

Further, for the Google impaired, this: https://whoisology.com/archive_6/thepolicycouncil.com



Granted, the above and indicative of the Apple consulting thingy isn't as bad as paying ~$1.5M to a completely unknown to revamp this forum which we're now enjoying the fruits of said labor.

[Gleb Gamow]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

Is it just me, or could've everybody else on this thread been capably of seeing this card eventually being played? I predict that soon Bruce will pen 'Troll' and 'FUD' to get his points across. Who's takin' bets?

[BruceFenton]

With apologies, I'm now confused.   What does me not openly and honestly saying what's on my mind have to do with my dire situation of replenishing my eggnog stock, hopin' to restock once paid a 10% bounty that equates to approximately a hundred bucks if my maths' correct (113,833 X 10% = ~$100 Worth of Quarts of Eggnog)?

You reply to my point about not speaking your mind by posting a rambling post with no point, more cryptic references, jokes about egg nog and covering well known existing facts as if they were new information.

What are you getting at with the reference to Apple etc?   That the foundation wasted money?  This was the main point of the OP.

[Fatman3001]

But maybe that's how you folks roll...damn the facts, slander is fun.

That's not me, but he had the same look in his face as I had.

Do you even Bitcoin?

[BruceFenton]

Of course you're right, civil settlements are not paid to "avoid investigation and indictment." They're paid to ___? (feel free to fill in the blank.

You should definitely tell the defense attorneys and especially criminal defendants this, they will be very glad for the news.  

The police and prosecutors might find the "avoiding investigations" part somewhat perplexing though --- also curious about little logistics like how someone even ends up in the magic court without any investigation being made (or wherever this magic deal is made) -- is it an honor system where people not yet accused just walk in and settle or do DAs offices randomly just grab people with no investigation and ask them to settle....that would suck...but perhaps it's overcome by the ability to "settle" and make things go away.

Also curious if this magic court is both civil and criminal....because, being the genius attorney you are you must know that criminal and civil courts are entirely separate and that the state, not people, bring criminal cases.

[Gleb Gamow]

From the Desk of I Have no Idea What Was Going on at The Bitcoin Foundation Prior to Me Getting Voted In:

Hi,

The event is basically full for this year but I thought Bitcoin Talk might still want to know about it in case anyone would like to request a wait list invite as well as to plan for next year.

Satoshi Roundtable is a private Bitcoin and crypto retreat taking place Feb 6-8 at a private resort in the Caribbean.  Invitation only and limited to 60 attendees.

http://satoshiroundtable.org


Confirmed attendees include:

Steve Beauregard, CEO, GoCoin
Vitalik Buterin, Ethereum
Michael Cao, CEO Zoom Hash
Dave Carlson, Mega Big Power
Nic Cary, CEO Blockchain
Reeve Collins, CEO, Tether
Tuur Demeester, Bitcoin Economist
Anthony DiIorio, Bitcoin Decentral, CrytpoKit, Ethereum
Bruce Fenton, Atlantic Financial / Bitcoin Association
Paige Freeman, Co-Founder, Women in Bitcoin
David Johnston, DApps Fund, Mastercoin, Factom
Charlie Lee, Coinbase/ Creator LiteCoin
Vinny Lingham, CEO Gyft
Marshall Long, CEO Final Hash
Trace Mayer, Author, investor, early adopter
Ira Miller, CEO, Coinapult
Patrick Murck, Executive Director, Bitcoin Foundation
Joel Monegro, Union Square Ventures
Brock Pierce, Crypto Currency Partners
Elizabeth Rossiello, CEO BitPesa
Matthew Roszak, Tally Capital
Marco Santori, Pillsbury Winthrop
Craig Sellars, CTO Mastercoin
Paul Snow, Texas Bitcoin Alliance and Factom
Nick Sullivan, CEO ChangeTip
Peter Todd, Core Developer
Roger Ver, Memory Dealers
Erik Voorhees, Coinapult
And many others …


Sorry it is full.  If you want to be placed on the wait list in the case of a cancelation you can send an email to members@satoshiroundtable.org

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Of course you're right, civil settlements of $4million are not paid to "avoid investigation and indictment." They're paid to victims? (feel free to fill in the blank.)

There. Much economy, very few words.

[BruceFenton]

We have an organization, or, at this point, no more than a name, name with tremendously embarrassing past it will never live down.
Now all we have to do is find something for it to do, a goal to fall embarrassingly short of, its raison d'etre, raise a bunch of money and...
Yeah, I know it seems a bit ass-backwards, but see, I'm the Grand Poobah now, and I wanna cash in on this thing, albeit I'm a bit late to the party.
I mean there's money here!

See -- you are incapable of actually stating something outright.  Weak efforts at sarcastic humor are your only resource because Logic will not work.

What you are basically saying above, and would come right out and say if you had integrity is:

1) I don't agree that a mission or should be made.  (Reason unspecified, presumably because the past is so bad that there is no purpose in attempting to fix something)
2) I accuse Fenton of attempting to enrich himself off of the foundation



You don't say that because

1) you don't have the integrity to, you'd rather resort to grade school style indirect accusations and

2) it doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny :  first, a mission or plan is a crucial foundation of any organization - second, I've never taken any money at all from the foundation (even though the last 3 Executive Directors were paid)


Easy to hide behind an anonymous name and sling mud on a chat board

[BruceFenton]

Of course you're right, civil settlements of $4million are not paid to "avoid investigation and indictment." They're paid to victims? (feel free to fill in the blank.)

There. Much economy, very few words.

Do you have a link on this?

[Gleb Gamow]

With apologies, I'm now confused.   What does me not openly and honestly saying what's on my mind have to do with my dire situation of replenishing my eggnog stock, hopin' to restock once paid a 10% bounty that equates to approximately a hundred bucks if my maths' correct (113,833 X 10% = ~$100 Worth of Quarts of Eggnog)?

You reply to my point about not speaking your mind by posting a rambling post with no point, more cryptic references, jokes about egg nog and covering well known existing facts as if they were new information.

What are you getting at with the reference to Apple etc?   That the foundation wasted money?  This was the main point of the OP.

Bitcoin Jesus Motherfuckin' Christ!

Jim Harper is a current board member. Jim Harper was paid over $100K for services in 2014 from TBF's coffer. Marshall Long, a dude who lied about mining bitcoins since 2009, and was in attendance at the Satoshi Round Table which you, too, attended, first introduced the eggnog (one word, for I, too, once made the same mistake, as did Marshall) reference.

[Gleb Gamow]

Of course you're right, civil settlements are not paid to "avoid investigation and indictment." They're paid to ___? (feel free to fill in the blank.

You should definitely tell the defense attorneys and especially criminal defendants this, they will be very glad for the news.  

The police and prosecutors might find the "avoiding investigations" part somewhat perplexing though --- also curious about little logistics like how someone even ends up in the magic court without any investigation being made (or wherever this magic deal is made) -- is it an honor system where people not yet accused just walk in and settle or do DAs offices randomly just grab people with no investigation and ask them to settle....that would suck...but perhaps it's overcome by the ability to "settle" and make things go away.

Also curious if this magic court is both civil and criminal....because, being the genius attorney you are you must know that criminal and civil courts are entirely separate and that the state, not people, bring criminal cases.

I give! How is it possible for a person who pens satire not comprehend it when it's penned by others?

[BruceFenton]

Satoshi Roundtable is a private Bitcoin and crypto retreat taking place Feb 6-8 at a private resort in the Caribbean.  Invitation only and limited to 60 attendees.

Lol.

"Ahh ha!  The dirt!  Satoshi Roundtable!"

Gleb, I wondered how you could have so many posts with such inane and worthless commentary but now I realize: you apparently just randomly roam around Google and post things that you somehow think are relevant or which prove some point....while never actually stating what that point or relevancy is.

Clearly you are scouring my name searching for some evidence that I'm a horrible person.   I'm sorry this is proving so difficult.

Keep looking, if you can't find some dirt you can just make something up.

 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Of course you're right, civil settlements of $4million are not paid to "avoid investigation and indictment." They're paid to victims? (feel free to fill in the blank.)

There. Much economy, very few words.

Do you have a link on this?

The magic of "research".

[Gleb Gamow]

We have an organization, or, at this point, no more than a name, name with tremendously embarrassing past it will never live down.
Now all we have to do is find something for it to do, a goal to fall embarrassingly short of, its raison d'etre, raise a bunch of money and...
Yeah, I know it seems a bit ass-backwards, but see, I'm the Grand Poobah now, and I wanna cash in on this thing, albeit I'm a bit late to the party.
I mean there's money here!

See -- you are incapable of actually stating something outright.  Weak efforts at sarcastic humor are your only resource because Logic will not work.

What you are basically saying above, and would come right out and say if you had integrity is:

1) I don't agree that a mission or should be made.  (Reason unspecified, presumably because the past is so bad that there is no purpose in attempting to fix something)
2) I accuse Fenton of attempting to enrich himself off of the foundation



You don't say that because

1) you don't have the integrity to, you'd rather resort to grade school style indirect accusations and

2) it doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny :  first, a mission or plan is a crucial foundation of any organization - second, I've never taken any money at all from the foundation (even though the last 3 Executive Directors were paid)


Easy to hide behind an anonymous name and sling mud on a chat board

If I'm not mistaken, there's been a many politicians running and winning office on the promise of only getting paid one dollar, to later serve time in prison for embezzlement for acts they created while in office.

Dude, your plate was 100% full when you ran for this position sans pay, espousing how you loved doing such after winning the election, to later loathing the position, to what you're doing now on the various threads.

[BruceFenton]

Bitcoin Jesus Motherfuckin' Christ!

Jim Harper is a current board member. Jim Harper was paid over $100K for services in 2014 from TBF's coffer.

Omg.  Not sure what is more hilarious, the number of factual inaccuracies you folks have or how certain you are of the truth of bad information.

Harper is not a board member.   He resigned as part of the board shakeup because he didn't see eye to eye with the other board members.

Harper was paid when he was not a board member by an Executive Director who is no longer there.   I never paid Harper anything.

See...this is the problem with wasting time with sarcasm.  

If you would have simply stated what your theory was, you could have gotten correct info.

[BruceFenton]

The magic of "research".

Haha!!!   Awesome!

I see your "evidence" now.   

1) Brock knew the movie director Bryan Singer.

2). The movie director was wrongfully accused by a serial accuser name Michael Egan who had made a number of false accusations

3).  The Singer case was dropped because the accuser was caught in numerous lies, including a direct conflict of the location of Singer who was in a different state than the time the accuser said he was

4).  The case was so bad that the judge actually took the unusual act scolded the accuser for lying (!) http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/judge-scolds-hollywood-sex-accuser-742505

5).  Therefor.....Brock Pierce is a child molester, despite never having been accused, tried or convicted of such a crime,

....seems legit

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Satoshi Roundtable is a private Bitcoin and crypto retreat taking place Feb 6-8 at a private resort in the Caribbean.  Invitation only and limited to 60 attendees.

Lol.

"Ahh ha!  The dirt!  Satoshi Roundtable!"

Gleb, I wondered how you could have so many posts with such inane and worthless commentary but now I realize: you apparently just randomly roam around Google and post things that you somehow think are relevant or which prove some point....while never actually stating what that point or relevancy is.

Clearly you are scouring my name searching for some evidence that I'm a horrible person.   I'm sorry this is proving so difficult.

Keep looking, if you can't find some dirt you can just make something up.

 

If you think my Gleb post count is bad, you should the count on this.

To be clear, I've yet to scour the Internet pertaining to your name, opting to only search this forum for some info when I stumbled upon the post in question, but rest assured, Googling "Bruce Fenton" IS at the top of my list now that that the gauntlet has been thrown down (had to Google that phrase to make sure I was using it properly, with apologies for using Google's valuable resources).

[BruceFenton]

If I'm not mistaken, there's been a many politicians running and winning office on the promise of only getting paid one dollar, to later serve time in prison for embezzlement for acts they created while in office.

Dude, your plate was 100% full when you ran for this position sans pay, espousing how you loved doing such after winning the election, to later loathing the position, to what you're doing now on the various threads.

Bro, do you even Google?

Care to show me those quotes?

Hint: could be difficult since I never did win any election and did not and do not serve on the board

[BruceFenton]

If you think my Gleb post count is bad, you should the count on this.

To be clear, I've yet to scour the Internet pertaining to your name, opting to only search this forum for some info when I stumbled upon the post in question, but rest assured, Googling "Bruce Fenton" IS at the top of my list now that that the gauntlet has been thrown down (had to Google that phrase to make sure I was using it properly, with apologies for using Google's valuable resources).

So what exactly have I done that upsets you?

[Gleb Gamow]

Of course you're right, civil settlements of $4million are not paid to "avoid investigation and indictment." They're paid to victims? (feel free to fill in the blank.)

There. Much economy, very few words.

Do you have a link on this?

The magic of "research".

That's what this thread is missin'. More cowbells images.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

http://wayback.archive.org/web/20020630221704/http://www.fuckedcompany.com/den/

[Bitcoinpro]

Bruce, Is the Junior Scientist position still open? Also interested in Vice presidency, if that's still up for grabs.
P.S. Have you considered MLM membership drive?

I know this is an attempt to be clever, but I don't get it, sorry.  Ask a real question, of if you have a specific critique of something I've done, happy to reply

pretends to know nothing about the companys past but

can spots attempts to be clever about the companys past

[BruceFenton]

That's what this thread is missin'. More cowbells images.

Ahh.  I see.   I'm a known associate of a guy who knows one of "the gays".

Don't worry fellas, "the gay" isn't contagious, you can't catch it by reading about an organization.   You can be secure in your manliness.

I hate to break it to you but I've hung around with "the Muslims" also.

Someday you can get a passport and come out of the basement, you might meet different people also.

[Gleb Gamow]

The magic of "research".

Haha!!!   Awesome!

I see your "evidence" now.   

1) Brock knew the movie director Bryan Singer.

2). The movie director was wrongfully accused by a serial accuser name Michael Egan who had made a number of false accusations

3).  The Singer case was dropped because the accuser was caught in numerous lies, including a direct conflict of the location of Singer who was in a different state than the time the accuser said he was

4).  The case was so bad that the judge actually took the unusual act scolded the accuser for lying (!) http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/judge-scolds-hollywood-sex-accuser-742505

5).  Therefor.....Brock Pierce is a child molester, despite never having been accused, tried or convicted of such a crime,

....seems legit

What I find amazing is that within ten short minutes upon reading BMB's post and between replying to this thread, among others, you were able to read the linked-to article, then formulate your assessment, then pen a reply, then at the speed of light click post. I don't even think Bryan Singer's Superman could've accomplished said feat, let alone tried. Were you a Marvel Super Hero in a  past life?

[Bitcoinpro]

I do know the history of the foundation The Nazi Party:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done

Fixed.
Welcome aboard, Bruce. Wash the windows, hang a few curtains, and remember: the stench of prussic acid is easily masked by today's potent air fresheners.

Godwin's Law didn't take long to take hold.  

Just to be clear, are comparing me and others involved in a non-profit Bitcoin group to the Nazi Party who killed 6 million people?  All because the previous administration wasted money?

Is that correct, or was it just an attempt to be funny with a Nazi reference?

now that u mention it,

[YoonYeonghwa]

I think only Core developers who really important in Bitcoin Foundation
Bitcoin is decentralized, so i think others than Core developers in Bitcoin Foundation isn't really important.

Also, i think they spend too much money on something not too useful such as Consultation & Travel.

Yeah. They definitely spent too much money. Only the core developers were important.

[BruceFenton]

What I find amazing is that within ten short minutes upon reading BMB's post and between replying to this thread, among others, you were able to read the linked-to article, then formulate your assessment, then pen a reply, then at the speed of light click post. I don't even think Bryan Singer's Superman could've accomplished said feat, let alone tried. Were you a Marvel Super Hero in a  past life?

Haha, now you doubt that I can type.  Well if I couldn't have done it....I must not have been able to.  Maybe the ghost of Mark Karpeles hacked the forum clock.

Maybe it was "the gays" you are so worried about.   They are awfully smart and crafty from what I hear, and many know about computers also.

[Bitcoinpro]

its the actions that BF didn't take was the problem and u got those right pretty well

Again, what specific act that I was responsible for are you upset with?    

hes following the,  see we never did anything right

so how could we have done anything wrong formula,

its some kind of phsycological bs tactic

like when a bunch of drug addicts or hookers

hang out together and pretend

they are not druggies or hookers

in this case they where called the BF

[RoadStress]

I have a question for you BruceFenton. What exactly are you trying to achieve with this and with the Foundation? What is the plan in the short and long term? Are you trying to raise more funds? Do you simply want a new and clean Foundation? If not this then what else?

The goal is to have an organization with a clear and defined mission and those who agree with that mission can support it.

Here is the draft out for comment.

https://github.com/BruceFenton/bitcoinfoundationplan

Ok. Then why all the fuss cleaning up Foundation name when you could come up with a totally different name, but with the same purpose? Is it something that I'm missing in the big picture?

[BruceFenton]

That's what this thread is missin'. More cowbells images.

I've got some horrible news for you ignorant clowns:

Not only is Brock a known associate of "the gay".... there may be at least one actual board member who themselves is an actual gay!   Not an associate of one, an actual one!    

I know this will be shocking and disturbing to mud slinging ignorant bigots but it's true.

So far, he hasn't put the moves on me or tried to turn me gay too....but I'll be watching out for you a-holes and will help you preserve your manly straight pride.

Semper Pi

[Bitcoinpro]

I do know the history of the foundation The Nazi Party:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done

Fixed.
Welcome aboard, Bruce. Wash the windows, hang a few curtains, and remember: the stench of prussic acid is easily masked by today's potent air fresheners.

Godwin's Law didn't take long to take hold.  

Just to be clear, are comparing me and others involved in a non-profit Bitcoin group to the Nazi Party who killed 6 million people?  All because the previous administration wasted money?

Is that correct, or was it just an attempt to be funny with a Nazi reference?

No Bruce. That there was an analogy, "a cognitive process of transferring information or meaning from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another (the target)."
It's a way of telling you that, amongst other things, the Nazi Party's image is beyond redemption. Even under your able leadership & with partial personnel changes.
Get it now?

a scamming drug adduct will never  get it he will just keep asking for more money

while talking complete bs and trying to work out ways of how to steal ur money

if u wont just hand it over

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

That's what this thread is missin'. More cowbells images.

I've got some horrible news for you ignorant clowns:

Not only is Brock a known associate of "the gay".... there may be at least one actual board member who themselves is an actual gay!   Not an associate of one, an actual one!    

I know this will be shocking and disturbing to mud slinging ignorant bigots but it's true.

So far, he hasn't put the moves on me or tried to turn me gay too....but I'll be watching out for you a-holes and will help you preserve your manly straight pride.

Semper Pi

I'd like to thank you for coming here today, and shattering whatever illusions I may have had left about the people in charge over there. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to blame Vod.

[BruceFenton]

a scamming drug adduct will never  get it he will just keep asking for more money

while talking complete bs and trying to work out ways of how to steal ur money

if u wont just hand it over

Who exactly did I scam?  Who did I steal from?  Who did I ask for money?  Any evidence?  Or just more random talk?

[BruceFenton]

like to thank you for coming here today, and shattering whatever illusions I may have had left about the people in charge over there. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to blame Vod.

Glad I came here also -- started with an attempt to be transparent about the problems of the previous admin and an attempt at reasoned discussion -- but ended up just reminding me what utterly useless, illogical, dishonest liars make up much of these boards.

[Bitcoinpro]

Stealing everyones coin, seems we cant get rid of the weasels

prob has TF's number on speed dial

im roping em in again but telling em we gonna

put BF back on track, ill have ur logo back up

soon bud

I have no idea what you are talking about or who you are talking to.

you would think this clown would have some  assitants or

atleast one retard that knows something that could help explain things

to him yet he comes here where hundreds of thousands of us know

everything about the entire history of his company

u could write a book on how stupid this guy is no one will

fall for his bs no  matter how much his drug addiction keeps

telling him to come back for more!

this guy must be a pound of coke a day addict

[Gleb Gamow]

If you think my Gleb post count is bad, you should the count on this.

To be clear, I've yet to scour the Internet pertaining to your name, opting to only search this forum for some info when I stumbled upon the post in question, but rest assured, Googling "Bruce Fenton" IS at the top of my list now that that the gauntlet has been thrown down (had to Google that phrase to make sure I was using it properly, with apologies for using Google's valuable resources).

So what exactly have I done that upsets you?

I'm not necessarily upset, but extremely taken aback as to how you're handling yourself in the heat of battle. You've been in this space long enough to know the lay of the land, and I'm sure others are pounding you a helluva lot harder than I, as the vinegar slash honey analogy comes to mind.

could be difficult since I never did win any election

http://www.coindesk.com/bruce-fenton-bitcoin-foundation-executive-director/

Veteran bitcoin activist Bruce Fenton has been named the Bitcoin Foundation's newest executive director.

Elected by a 5-to-1 vote, Fenton succeeds interim executive director Patrick Murck and outgoing executive director Jon Matonis, the latter of whom resigned on 30th October amid financial turmoil and ahead of staff cuts at the industry’s top trade organization.

My bad! I mistaken blue berries for blueberries. I'm not versed on how folks are voted for positions when they're not running for anything. Must just be a TBF thingy.

[Gyrsur]

as I said the FIFA of Bitcoin was TBF.

a lifetime membership was once 25 (22?) BTC in 2012 but they lowered it to 2.7 BTC which I payed for it.

we should support this BF instead.

http://thebitcoin.foundation

[Gleb Gamow]

http://wayback.archive.org/web/20020630221704/http://www.fuckedcompany.com/den/

Brock told me he was amazed that I found that. (paraphrased)

[Bitcoinpro]

He has no idea about Trade Fortress

this guy is a professional liar

but lets not highlight his better characteristics

Okay,  come forward with any evidence of any time I have lied.

slams bible on the table, shove this up your **** ********

[Gleb Gamow]

Bruce, Is the Junior Scientist position still open? Also interested in Vice presidency, if that's still up for grabs.
P.S. Have you considered MLM membership drive?

I know this is an attempt to be clever, but I don't get it, sorry.  Ask a real question, of if you have a specific critique of something I've done, happy to reply

pretends to know nothing about the companys past but

can spots attempts to be clever about the companys past

I just alluded to that truism (no satire intended).

[Bitcoinpro]

I do know the history of the foundation The Nazi Party:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done

Fixed.
Welcome aboard, Bruce. Wash the windows, hang a few curtains, and remember: the stench of prussic acid is easily masked by today's potent air fresheners.

Re. "if you have a specific critique of something I've done": Have you done anything?

he needs to start again with shinning shoes on wallstreet

[Gleb Gamow]

That's what this thread is missin'. More cowbells images.

Ahh.  I see.   I'm a known associate of a guy who knows one of "the gays".

Don't worry fellas, "the gay" isn't contagious, you can't catch it by reading about an organization.   You can be secure in your manliness.

I hate to break it to you but I've hung around with "the Muslims" also.

Someday you can get a passport and come out of the basement, you might meet different people also.

"No, Captain! He missed the mark - us - by a parsec.

[Bitcoinpro]

 let me be clear. I'm not here to speculate. I'm here to suggest to you that:

a. If you don't know the history of your own foundation, then you're probably a potato; and
b. Nobody wants anything to do with Brock Pierce, chairman of the board of said foundation.

I do know the history of the foundation:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done as well as a big drop in Bitcoin price.

As for Brock, he was elected by a majority of members, so I wouldn't say "no one" wants him.   Do you have a specific accusation about him?

Did you do any kind of research before accepting your new position? And by "research" of course I mean Google.

he searched twatter and found twats

[Bitcoinpro]

Did you do any kind of research before accepting your new position? And by "research" of course I mean Google.

Are you people incapable of actually openly and honestly saying what is on your mind?

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

im starting to think he was hired because he has had a labotamoy

it must remove certain congnitive abilities and leave only

the ones that deal with lying in order to achive ur next line of snort

[Gleb Gamow]

What I find amazing is that within ten short minutes upon reading BMB's post and between replying to this thread, among others, you were able to read the linked-to article, then formulate your assessment, then pen a reply, then at the speed of light click post. I don't even think Bryan Singer's Superman could've accomplished said feat, let alone tried. Were you a Marvel Super Hero in a  past life?

Haha, now you doubt that I can type.  Well if I couldn't have done it....I must not have been able to.  Maybe the ghost of Mark Karpeles hacked the forum clock.

Maybe it was "the gays" you are so worried about.   They are awfully smart and crafty from what I hear, and many know about computers also.

"Bruce thinks it's a question of his typing skills and not his ability to read a lengthy article assessing its gist while reading and replying to myriad threads on the Internet in the course of ten minutes, with said task including some typing."

[Bitcoinpro]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

now that u mention it we forgot to add the bit where ur acting

like a snotty know all tenage girl, because it seemed like to

much of a compliment

[Bitcoinpro]

I do know the history of the foundation The Nazi Party:  they had embarrassments, terrible board members, mismanagement, massive waste, PR disasters and wildly excessive spending combined with some good things done

Fixed.
Welcome aboard, Bruce. Wash the windows, hang a few curtains, and remember: the stench of prussic acid is easily masked by today's potent air fresheners.

Godwin's Law didn't take long to take hold.  

Just to be clear, are comparing me and others involved in a non-profit Bitcoin group to the Nazi Party who killed 6 million people?  All because the previous administration wasted money?

Is that correct, or was it just an attempt to be funny with a Nazi reference?

The Nazis killed somewhere between 20 and 30 million people. Not that I see the relevance, but that's a lot of dead people missing. BF was never real good with numbers so I thought I'd give you a heads up.

they where good with the numbers just the wrong ones

like the real time conversion of btc into lines of snort

[Gleb Gamow]

That's what this thread is missin'. More cowbells images.

I've got some horrible news for you ignorant clowns:

Not only is Brock a known associate of "the gay".... there may be at least one actual board member who themselves is an actual gay!   Not an associate of one, an actual one!    

I know this will be shocking and disturbing to mud slinging ignorant bigots but it's true.

So far, he hasn't put the moves on me or tried to turn me gay too....but I'll be watching out for you a-holes and will help you preserve your manly straight pride.

Semper Pi

Oh, please, Bruce, tell us more about Brock being gay when he's on record myriad times stating that he's straight and has never been gay or bi. Is there something you know that we don't, including Brock? I think you fucked up here a tad... or more than a tad - a tad^plex.

[Bitcoinpro]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

I shouldn't have had to tell you that 10 members of the board resigned upon the election of Brock Pierce, and I shouldn't have to tell you what kind of man he is.

and he shouldnt have had to ask and the buffoon did which makes him even worse

and that many times more stupid,  this guy makes jeff skilling look competent

and he chaired the biggest bankruptcy in US history

[Gleb Gamow]

That's what this thread is missin'. More cowbells images.

I've got some horrible news for you ignorant clowns:

Not only is Brock a known associate of "the gay".... there may be at least one actual board member who themselves is an actual gay!   Not an associate of one, an actual one!    

I know this will be shocking and disturbing to mud slinging ignorant bigots but it's true.

So far, he hasn't put the moves on me or tried to turn me gay too....but I'll be watching out for you a-holes and will help you preserve your manly straight pride.

Semper Pi

I'd like to thank you for coming here today, and shattering whatever illusions I may have had left about the people in charge over there. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to blame Vod.

"Was that haiku or satire?"

[Gleb Gamow]

a scamming drug adduct will never  get it he will just keep asking for more money

while talking complete bs and trying to work out ways of how to steal ur money

if u wont just hand it over

Who exactly did I scam?  Who did I steal from?  Who did I ask for money?  Any evidence?  Or just more random talk?

For a second, I would've sworn I was reading a Leroy Fodor post.

[Gleb Gamow]

like to thank you for coming here today, and shattering whatever illusions I may have had left about the people in charge over there. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to blame Vod.

Glad I came here also -- started with an attempt to be transparent about the problems of the previous admin and an attempt at reasoned discussion -- but ended up just reminding me what utterly useless, illogical, dishonest liars make up much of these boards.

Feel free to use 'Trolls' and 'FUD' so not to disappoint us monumental assholes, a phrase Josh Zerlan used for us, the Collective, while winding down BFL's fleecing of the community, penned from the comforts of his estate.

[Bitcoinpro]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

I shouldn't have had to tell you that 10 members of the board resigned upon the election of Brock Pierce, and I shouldn't have to tell you what kind of man he is.

But you use lots of words to not tell him. I think we can conclude that bitcoiners aren't all that economical.

we can conclude that u have absolutely no reasoning or analyais skills and therefore ur ability

to make a conclusion with a factual basis is non existant,

[BruceFenton]

"Bruce thinks it's a question of his typing skills and not his ability to read a lengthy article assessing its gist while reading and replying to myriad threads on the Internet in the course of ten minutes, with said task including some typing."

So what exactly are you accusing me of?   You don't think I typed it?  You are so mystified that someone could shoot holes in your utterly ignorant slander in a matter of seconds that, rather than stop to consider what a faulty base your accusation was based on you immediately jump to "oh Muh internet! No one can prove me wrong that fast!  Must be foul play!"  What exact foul play?   I hired a researcher really fast?  Someone smarter than me wrote the reply for me?   I had the reply standing by on the off chance that you used it?   Who knows.   I'd love to hear the theory.  

[Gleb Gamow]

as I said the FIFA of Bitcoin was TBF.

a lifetime membership was once 25 (22?) BTC in 2012 but they lowered it to 2.7 BTC which I payed for it.

we should support this BF instead.

http://thebitcoin.foundation

It was $25 USD/yr, for that's what I paid for two consecutive years.

[BruceFenton]

we can conclude that u have absolutely no reasoning or analyais skills and therefore ur ability

to make a conclusion with a factual basis is non existant,

Maybe not, but I do have some basic understanding of spelling, grammar and coherent thoughts.

I also don't make it a habit of accusing people of being liars unless I have a specific accusation or evidence.

[Bitcoinpro]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

I shouldn't have had to tell you that 10 members of the board resigned upon the election of Brock Pierce, and I shouldn't have to tell you what kind of man he is.

But you use lots of words to not tell him. I think we can conclude that bitcoiners aren't all that economical.

I was trying to be polite.

thats the problem when ur dealing with a pound a day coke addicts

they will see politeness as an opportunity to scam u and steal

as much coin as they possibly can, in fact see almost any actions

as an opportunity to do this and its better i dont mention those other ones

[Gyrsur]

as I said the FIFA of Bitcoin was TBF.

a lifetime membership was once 25 (22?) BTC in 2012 but they lowered it to 2.7 BTC which I payed for it.

we should support this BF instead.

http://thebitcoin.foundation

It was $25 USD/yr, for that's what I paid for two consecutive years.

lifetime membership was a longt time at 22 (or 25) BTC even if the price did go up. later they reduced it.

[BruceFenton]

Oh, please, Bruce, tell us more about Brock being gay when he's on record myriad times stating that he's straight and has never been gay or bi. Is there something you know that we don't, including Brock? I think you fucked up here a tad... or more than a tad - a tad^plex.

I can't even make fun of you fools because you apparently don't know what words like "associate" means.  No dear, you see when someone says that a person is "an associate" of another person or group.....that means the other person or group is different from the first one.

[BruceFenton]

thats the problem when ur dealing with a pound a day coke addicts

they will see politeness as an opportunity to scam u and steal

as much coin as they possibly can, in fact see almost any actions

as an opportunity to do this and its better i dont mention those other ones

"Coke addict"
"Liar"
"Thief"

Just curious how many slanders you can make without making one single specific, factual allegation

[Bitcoinpro]

I shouldn't have had to tell you that 10 members of the board resigned upon the election of Brock Pierce, and I shouldn't have to tell you what kind of man he is.

I wasn't involved with the foundation when the people resigned.  I do recall accusations of him being a "child mollester" by the same brand of ignorant low brow, logic-free people on this thread....despite no criminal accusation, investigation or indictment...let alone trial.  But maybe that's how you folks roll...damn the facts, slander is fun.

Perhaps that's what you are referring to...I can't know for sure because you are, for whatever reason, incapable of simply stating what your accusation is.

ur now like getting out a digger to dig ur own grave

u claim to know nothing now u seem to not only know

the entire past history of ur own company but also about

everyone posting on this thread, ur the biggest liar

and u no doubt oversaw alot of coin theft and ur pretty

much implicating urself with the way ur telling ur lies

ur the most petty and lowest type of criminal on the planet

go back to ur masters and get ur snort u aint gettung it

from here clown monkey

[Fatman3001]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

I shouldn't have had to tell you that 10 members of the board resigned upon the election of Brock Pierce, and I shouldn't have to tell you what kind of man he is.

But you use lots of words to not tell him. I think we can conclude that bitcoiners aren't all that economical.

I was trying to be polite.

thats the problem when ur dealing with a pound a day coke addicts

they will see politeness as an opportunity to scam u and steal

as much coin as they possibly can, in fact see almost any actions

as an opportunity to do this and its better i dont mention those other ones

Fenton! Feeeeenton!!!

[Bitcoinpro]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

Bruce, when asked what the point of raising the dead reviving the Bitcoin Foundation was, you answered:

The goal is to have an organization with a clear and defined mission

Your goal is to have a clearly stated goal?
You don't find this a bit evasive, as in "playing games"?

>despite no criminal accusation, investigation or indictment
Please. Despite substantial civil settlement to avoid criminal investigation and indictment.

hes not evasive and playing games

he is outright trying to steal and defraud anyone and everyone he

possibly can except his masters who he will grovel before and bare

his soul like some crazy crak addicted whore awaiting his next snort

[Gleb Gamow]

"Bruce thinks it's a question of his typing skills and not his ability to read a lengthy article assessing its gist while reading and replying to myriad threads on the Internet in the course of ten minutes, with said task including some typing."

So what exactly are you accusing me of?   You don't think I typed it?  You are so mystified that someone could shoot holes in your utterly ignorant slander in a matter of seconds that, rather than stop to consider what a faulty base your accusation was based on you immediately jump to "oh Muh internet! No one can prove me wrong that fast!  Must be foul play!"  What exact foul play?   I hired a researcher really fast?  Someone smarter than me wrote the reply for me?   I had the reply standing by on the off chance that you used it?   Who knows.   I'd love to hear the theory.  

"Make that missing the mark by two parsecs, Captain."

First, I 100% believe you typed it. That was never in question.

Here's the timeline:

You claimed to have no knowledge of X.

A person links to a site outlining X.

The site containing X was very, very long, and would take the average person several minutes to read it if they dedicated 100% of their time in completing the task.

Within 10 minutes, not only did you read about X while reading and replying to other posts and threads on this forum, you typed (an act that took the least amount of time) your assessment about X, then posted it. X being of a subject matter you're on record in not knowing anything about prior to having the article linked so that you could get up to speed at your earliest convenience, amazing the shit outta me as to how fast you got up to speed.

Somehow, you misconstrued as to what I was amazed about, with both of us now addressing this issue twice since I first presented my amazement, now taken back (translated: amazed) that you're at a lost as to what the fuck I'm talkin' 'bout. What's your qualifications again for being voted in the unpaid position you're enjoy at TBF, a voted-in position that you didn't run for?

[Bitcoinpro]

Your goal is to have a clearly stated goal?
You don't find this a bit evasive, as in "playing games"?

You conveniently leave out the 2-3 page mission statement.

using the same tactics as a forked tongue bs artist is

highly offensive he views this as an assualt on his

very being, even though he has no reason to be except

for his next line of snort and the biddings of his masters

[BruceFenton]

ur now like getting out a digger to dig ur own grave

u claim to know nothing now u seem to not only know

the entire past history of ur own company but also about

everyone posting on this thread, ur the biggest liar

and u no doubt oversaw alot of coin theft and ur pretty

much implicating urself with the way ur telling ur lies

ur the most petty and lowest type of criminal in the planet

go back to ur masters and get ur snort u aint gettung it

from here clown monkey

Pretty convincing there.  Have you thought about joining the Mermaid's law firm?   You seem like you could write a compelling and eloquent legal brief.

[Bitcoinpro]

Your goal is to have a clearly stated goal?

And yes, by the way, that is exactly the goal at this stage -- to have a goal -- I should have said set of goals or mission statement.  It was put out for member comment

clueless wonder has pretty much admitted with his bumbling comments

he has no goals ie not the ones u want to know about anyway

lieing cheating fatties n salt

[Bitcoinpro]

>despite no criminal accusation, investigation or indictment
Please. Despite substantial civil settlement to avoid criminal investigation and indictment.

Oh neat.  In addition to being a newbie to the forums and a journalist, Little Mermaid is also a criminal law attorney.

So how does this work exactly....I'm sure hundreds of thousands in the justice system would love to know.

You pay a "civil settlement" in order to "avoid investigation and indictment" -- really?   At what phase does that actually occur...the DAs office?   The police?  Do police get a list of people they don't investigate because a settlement has been made?   Do people making these magic settlements have to do it really fast before the police investigate or does the magic settlement also erase past investigations?

Really curious how this works as you seem to be a huge expert on many topics.

Bruce reaches entirely new levels of stupid here and i though it was impossible at this stage

is this guy a friend of frankies by any chance

[Gleb Gamow]

we can conclude that u have absolutely no reasoning or analyais skills and therefore ur ability

to make a conclusion with a factual basis is non existant,

Maybe not, but I do have some basic understanding of spelling, grammar and coherent thoughts.

I also don't make it a habit of accusing people of being liars unless I have a specific accusation or evidence.

"Bruce, quit picking your FUD and spell 'pony' for the rest of the class."

[Bitcoinpro]

Man, at this point we shouldn't have to. We all have the same frame of reference here. We all seem to know the shot except you.

Yeah, you guys have got it all figured out....in between implying I'm associated with wrongdoing, calling me a liar and comparing me to Nazis you sprinkle in clever cryptic references to things like Trade Fortress like a group of teenage girls in a bad movie.

If playing games is your thing, have at it.

Is it just me, or could've everybody else on this thread been capably of seeing this card eventually being played? I predict that soon Bruce will pen 'Troll' and 'FUD' to get his points across. Who's takin' bets?

he dosnt have any foundation yet to make those comments

because his entire being is troll and fud but im sure one of his

goals is to be able to use those comments in future posts

[BruceFenton]

You claimed to have no knowledge of X.

A person links to a site outlining X.

The site containing X was very, very long, and would take the average person several minutes to read it if they dedicated 100% of their time in completing the task.

Within 10 minutes, not only did you read about X while reading and replying to other posts and threads on this forum, you typed (an act that took the least amount of time) your assessment about X, then posted it. X being ....

Somehow, you misconstrued as to what I was amazed about, with both of us now addressing this issue twice since I first presented my amazement, now taken back (translated: amazed) that you're at a lost as to what the fuck I'm talkin' 'bout. What's your qualifications again for being voted in the unpaid position you're enjoy at TBF, a voted-in position that you didn't run for?

Of course I knew of the accusations - I never said I didn't.  

I asked what you were referring to because I wanted to make sure....I thought that anyone in this industry with a basic internet connection would be well aware that the accusations were totally debunked....especially before making them again.   Guess not.

2 - So you consider a board appointment an "election"?   Interesting definition as I didn't have any opponents or campaign and no one voted other than the board.  I think the true answer is that you honestly didn't know-- you thought I was on the board and now are trying to move the goalposts (the other benefit of me waiting for you to specifically state your accusation about Brock before responding - had I said so first you would have no doubt backpedaled and claim it was some other accusation). As for qualifications - you've obviously searched my name a lot.

[Bitcoinpro]

With apologies, I'm now confused.   What does me not openly and honestly saying what's on my mind have to do with my dire situation of replenishing my eggnog stock, hopin' to restock once paid a 10% bounty that equates to approximately a hundred bucks if my maths' correct (113,833 X 10% = ~$100 Worth of Quarts of Eggnog)?

You reply to my point about not speaking your mind by posting a rambling post with no point, more cryptic references, jokes about egg nog and covering well known existing facts as if they were new information.

What are you getting at with the reference to Apple etc?   That the foundation wasted money?  This was the main point of the OP.

Bruce you have now advanced to new levels of crazy on top of the new levels of stupid u built

[Gleb Gamow]

Oh, please, Bruce, tell us more about Brock being gay when he's on record myriad times stating that he's straight and has never been gay or bi. Is there something you know that we don't, including Brock? I think you fucked up here a tad... or more than a tad - a tad^plex.

I can't even make fun of you fools because you apparently don't know what words like "associate" means.  No dear, you see when someone says that a person is "an associate" of another person or group.....that means the other person or group is different from the first one.

Gulp! I give you that one. No satire, for I truly fucked up with my assessment there. I honestly read something that wasn't there, and even highlighted it, then took it to the nth degree. I blame Vod!

< satire --> > I hope this doesn't lower my chances of earning some of that 10% bounty I'm hopin' to use to replenish my eggnog supply.

[BruceFenton]

he dosnt have any foundation yet to make those comments

because his entire being is troll and fud but im sure one of his

goals is to be able to use those comments in future posts

Bitcoin Talk:  I proudly present to you one of your "Legendary Members", the William Shakespeare of Bitcoin 

[Bitcoinpro]

Your goal is to have a clearly stated goal?

And yes, by the way, that is exactly the goal at this stage -- to have a goal -- I should have said set of goals or mission statement.  It was put out for member comment

We have an organization, or, at this point, little more than a name, name with tremendously embarrassing past it could never live down, a rich history of inept criminality. Now all we have to do is find something for this entity to do, a goal to fall embarrassingly short of, its raison d'etre, so let's raise a bunch of money and...
Yeah, I know it seems a bit ass-backwards, but see, I'm the Grand Poobah now, and I wanna cash in on this thing, albeit I'm a bit late to the party.
I mean there's money here!

this level of realism/reality would be difficult for Bruce to accept

he was finding it much easier with references to Lord of the Rings

[Gleb Gamow]

You claimed to have no knowledge of X.

A person links to a site outlining X.

The site containing X was very, very long, and would take the average person several minutes to read it if they dedicated 100% of their time in completing the task.

Within 10 minutes, not only did you read about X while reading and replying to other posts and threads on this forum, you typed (an act that took the least amount of time) your assessment about X, then posted it. X being ....

Somehow, you misconstrued as to what I was amazed about, with both of us now addressing this issue twice since I first presented my amazement, now taken back (translated: amazed) that you're at a lost as to what the fuck I'm talkin' 'bout. What's your qualifications again for being voted in the unpaid position you're enjoy at TBF, a voted-in position that you didn't run for?

Of course I knew of the accusations - I never said I didn't.  

I asked what you were referring to because I wanted to make sure....I thought that anyone in this industry with a basic internet connection would be well aware that the accusations were totally debunked....especially before making them again.   Guess not.

2 - So you consider a board appointment an "election"?   Interesting definition as I didn't have any opponents or campaign and no one voted other than the board.  I think the true answer is that you honestly didn't know-- you thought I was on the board and now are trying to move the goalposts (the other benefit of me waiting for you to specifically state your accusation about Brock before responding - had I said so first you would have no doubt backpedaled and claim it was some other accusation). As for qualifications - you've obviously searched my name a lot.

Not searching your name a lot yet, but I will once I get time. I still need to read the tax filing I've been waiting a year for, seeing now that I had to wait three extra months due to Jody Tief (what, no H?) requesting an extension.

[Bitcoinpro]

Of course you're right, civil settlements are not paid to "avoid investigation and indictment." They're paid to ___? (feel free to fill in the blank.

You should definitely tell the defense attorneys and especially criminal defendants this, they will be very glad for the news.  

The police and prosecutors might find the "avoiding investigations" part somewhat perplexing though --- also curious about little logistics like how someone even ends up in the magic court without any investigation being made (or wherever this magic deal is made) -- is it an honor system where people not yet accused just walk in and settle or do DAs offices randomly just grab people with no investigation and ask them to settle....that would suck...but perhaps it's overcome by the ability to "settle" and make things go away.

Also curious if this magic court is both civil and criminal....because, being the genius attorney you are you must know that criminal and civil courts are entirely separate and that the state, not people, bring criminal cases.

I give! How is it possible for a person who pens satire not comprehend it when it's penned by others?

because he is a lieing **** **** thats why

[Gleb Gamow]

he dosnt have any foundation yet to make those comments

because his entire being is troll and fud but im sure one of his

goals is to be able to use those comments in future posts

Bitcoin Talk:  I proudly present to you one of your "Legendary Members", the William Shakespeare of Bitcoin 

"He dosn't have any foundation yet to make those comments
Because his entire being is troll and fud but im sure one of his
Goals is to be able to use those comments in future posts.

Oh, how I wish to fuck thee one more time, my love."

[Bitcoinpro]

Satoshi Roundtable is a private Bitcoin and crypto retreat taking place Feb 6-8 at a private resort in the Caribbean.  Invitation only and limited to 60 attendees.

Lol.

"Ahh ha!  The dirt!  Satoshi Roundtable!"

Gleb, I wondered how you could have so many posts with such inane and worthless commentary but now I realize: you apparently just randomly roam around Google and post things that you somehow think are relevant or which prove some point....while never actually stating what that point or relevancy is.

Clearly you are scouring my name searching for some evidence that I'm a horrible person.   I'm sorry this is proving so difficult.

Keep looking, if you can't find some dirt you can just make something up.

 

Does this absolute retard have any idea how stupid he looks saying gleb

considering the content of wats being talked about, this is the

funniest sht ive ever seen,

[BruceFenton]

Not searching your name a lot yet, but I will once I get time. I still need to read the tax filing I've been waiting a year for, seeing now that I had to wait three extra months due to Jody Tief (what, no H?) requesting an extension.

You mean the one I mentioned and linked to in this same thread which is also summarized in the original post?

[disclaimer201]

Just joining this fun thread. It's very entertaining. Lyrics are borrowed by ELO, well except for that one tiny misheard part that is...

You got me runnin goin out of my mind,
You got me thinkin that Im wastin my time.
Don't bring me down,no no no no no,
I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor
Don't bring me down.

You wanna stay out with your fancy friends.
Im tellin you it's go to be the end,
Don't bring me down,no no no no no no no no,
I'll tell you once more before I get off the floor
Don't bring me down.

Don't bring me down, Bruce
Don't bring me down, Bruce
Don't bring me down, Bruce
Don't bring me down.

[Bitcoinpro]

We have an organization, or, at this point, no more than a name, name with tremendously embarrassing past it will never live down.
Now all we have to do is find something for it to do, a goal to fall embarrassingly short of, its raison d'etre, raise a bunch of money and...
Yeah, I know it seems a bit ass-backwards, but see, I'm the Grand Poobah now, and I wanna cash in on this thing, albeit I'm a bit late to the party.
I mean there's money here!

See -- you are incapable of actually stating something outright.  Weak efforts at sarcastic humor are your only resource because Logic will not work.

What you are basically saying above, and would come right out and say if you had integrity is:

1) I don't agree that a mission or should be made.  (Reason unspecified, presumably because the past is so bad that there is no purpose in attempting to fix something)
2) I accuse Fenton of attempting to enrich himself off of the foundation



You don't say that because

1) you don't have the integrity to, you'd rather resort to grade school style indirect accusations and

2) it doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny :  first, a mission or plan is a crucial foundation of any organization - second, I've never taken any money at all from the foundation (even though the last 3 Executive Directors were paid)


Easy to hide behind an anonymous name and sling mud on a chat board

1.) What I'm basically saying is what I did say. Nothing for you to add, riddle out or take away.
2.) You have a hammer, or, rater, a memory of a hammer -- the hammer's been pawned for hookers and blow.
Now you want us to buy you another hammer, so's you can come up with some shit to do with it. Which is totally not hookers and blow -- this time for sure

P.S. Your PR skillz are top-notch, ur super good with people

u would think with his bizarre imagination he could just

pretend in his own mind he was having hookers n blow all

day, it would certainly be more beneficial for his mental state

[Gleb Gamow]

Not searching your name a lot yet, but I will once I get time. I still need to read the tax filing I've been waiting a year for, seeing now that I had to wait three extra months due to Jody Tief (what, no H?) requesting an extension.

You mean the one I mentioned and linked to in this same thread which is also summarized in the original post?

The tax filing?

[Bitcoinpro]

Bitcoin Jesus Motherfuckin' Christ!

Jim Harper is a current board member. Jim Harper was paid over $100K for services in 2014 from TBF's coffer.

Omg.  Not sure what is more hilarious, the number of factual inaccuracies you folks have or how certain you are of the truth of bad information.

Harper is not a board member.   He resigned as part of the board shakeup because he didn't see eye to eye with the other board members.

Harper was paid when he was not a board member by an Executive Director who is no longer there.   I never paid Harper anything.

See...this is the problem with wasting time with sarcasm.  

If you would have simply stated what your theory was, you could have gotten correct info.

The hilarious part is your stupidity and ability to blindingly twist overt and distort all facts

to achive more hookers n blow ahhh the drugs have fried ur brains so bad my friend

im sorry to say

[BruceFenton]

The tax filing?

Yes it's been posted since before most of this conversation.

http://bitcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2014-990-FINAL.pdf

Is that what you were talking about?

[BruceFenton]

The hilarious part is your stupidity and ability to blindingly twist overt and distort all facts

to achive more hookers n blow ahhh the drugs have fried ur brains so bad my friend

im sorry to say

Your poetry is amazing.  Is it Haiku?

Have ever you thought
Of climbing from your basement low
To recite your words from high?

Would you mind if I had some words framed for decoration in my office?

[BruceFenton]

Don't let anyone call you neckbeards. 

[BruceFenton]

Perhaps some spoken word performances are in order.

Curious, how is "ur" pronounced.  "Your" seems too obvious.  I think "errrr" is more original for the art scene, and as an added bonus, will also appeal to the pirate demographic.

[Bitcoinpro]

a scamming drug adduct will never  get it he will just keep asking for more money

while talking complete bs and trying to work out ways of how to steal ur money

if u wont just hand it over

Who exactly did I scam?  Who did I steal from?  Who did I ask for money?  Any evidence?  Or just more random talk?

even a complete  optimist wouldnt have used the term random

and since their is nothing higher ur just continuing to

paint urself more and more as a lieing bs retard,  its like

we a giving u free therapy,,,,,,,,

we are giving u free therapy

[Bitcoinpro]

 

If you think my Gleb post count is bad, you should the count on this.

To be clear, I've yet to scour the Internet pertaining to your name, opting to only search this forum for some info when I stumbled upon the post in question, but rest assured, Googling "Bruce Fenton" IS at the top of my list now that that the gauntlet has been thrown down (had to Google that phrase to make sure I was using it properly, with apologies for using Google's valuable resources).

So what exactly have I done that upsets you?

I'm not necessarily upset, but extremely taken aback as to how you're handling yourself in the heat of battle. You've been in this space long enough to know the lay of the land, and I'm sure others are pounding you a helluva lot harder than I, as the vinegar slash honey analogy comes to mind.

could be difficult since I never did win any election

http://www.coindesk.com/bruce-fenton-bitcoin-foundation-executive-director/

Veteran bitcoin activist Bruce Fenton has been named the Bitcoin Foundation's newest executive director.

Elected by a 5-to-1 vote, Fenton succeeds interim executive director Patrick Murck and outgoing executive director Jon Matonis, the latter of whom resigned on 30th October amid financial turmoil and ahead of staff cuts at the industry’s top trade organization.

My bad! I mistaken blue berries for blueberries. I'm not versed on how folks are voted for positions when they're not running for anything. Must just be a TBF thingy.

when he posted "i never did win any election"

it was like landing another planet

he has definately spend time in a mental institution

he obviously hopes he can secure more blow

before he is forced to take another long stint there

the term they like to call it is rehab

[Gleb Gamow]

The tax filing?

Yes it's been posted since before most of this conversation.

http://bitcoinfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2014-990-FINAL.pdf

Is that what you were talking about?

If we're on the same page as to which post is in reference, then yes, that tax filing that I've yet to read through because I've been busy with on this brand new platform called Google. That site is fuckin' amazing! I wonder if I can speak to my dead grandparents via it. 

[Gleb Gamow]

The hilarious part is your stupidity and ability to blindingly twist overt and distort all facts

to achive more hookers n blow ahhh the drugs have fried ur brains so bad my friend

im sorry to say

Your poetry is amazing.  Is it Haiku?

Have ever you thought
Of climbing from your basement low
To recite your words from high?

Would you mind if I had some words framed for decoration in my office?

Dude, you're getting a hang of this satire thingy. 

[BruceFenton]

If you want to hand-wave away early unsavoury behaviour, fine. Shady business dealings? Why not? I'm not a judge or jury. You associate with you you associate with. I'd sooner this lot of neckbeards for company, myself. And the 10 or so other board members, the ones BMB had to tell you about, do you know why they left?

So many incorrect assumptions it's no wonder there is so much misunderstanding.

1) I'm not hand waiving away past bad behavior. I'm shining a light on it - read the original post in this thread, I call out bad spending as ridiculous

2) agreed that who you associate with is important -- I'm not sure why the concept of someone being called in for a turnaround situation is hard to understand -- I do not and have no associated with the bad actors who made these bad decisions -- I've certainly never worked with any of them

3) 10 board members did not leave -- according to the article it was 10 regular members... out of 1500 (looking back at the old forum I doubt it was even that high) - yes, the reason they left appears to have been largely based on the same accusation in this thread that one board member was involved in a sex scandal -- this accusation was pretty much entirely debunked as unfounded -

[BruceFenton]

when he posted "i never did win any election"

it was like landing another planet

Smh.  A board appointment is not an election.  What sort of election has no election campaign or other candidates?   Have you heard of board appointments for companies called "elections"?  Are CEOs considered elected when a board appoints them?   We have several appointed committee chairs, are they considered elected?

It's simply not the accurate term to describe an appointment.   But if you wish to change a commonly accepted definition, that's fine,mite really not material.

[Bitcoinpro]

If you want to hand-wave away early unsavoury behaviour, fine. Shady business dealings? Why not? I'm not a judge or jury. You associate with you you associate with. I'd sooner this lot of neckbeards for company, myself. And the 10 or so other board members, the ones BMB had to tell you about, do you know why they left?

So many incorrect assumptions it's no wonder there is so much misunderstanding.

1) I'm not hand waiving away past bad behavior. I'm shining a light on it - read the original post in this thread, I call out bad spending as ridiculous

2) agreed that who you associate with is important -- I'm not sure why the concept of someone being called in for a turnaround situation is hard to understand -- I do not and have no associated with the bad actors who made these bad decisions -- I've certainly never worked with any of them

3) 10 board members did not leave -- according to the article it was 10 regular members... out of 1500 (looking back at the old forum I doubt it was even that high) - yes, the reason they left appears to have been largely based on the same accusation in this thread that one board member was involved in a sex scandal -- this accusation was pretty much entirely debunked as unfounded -

Olivier Janssens
Member

Lifetime
Pip
131 posts
Posted 10 May 2014 - 06:41 PM
I am also resigning as a lifetime member.  If the bitcoin foundation is to be taken seriously, they need to immediately remove Brock Pierce from the board and save face.  Brad, there are plenty more allegations than what you brought up.  There are active lawsuits on corporate fraud and child porn.  This is NOT the type of associations you want to have for Bitcoin, especially not with the MSM trying to pull every stunt in the book.

http://web.archive.o...rs-spanish-jail

-> The men fled to Spain where they were arrested by Spanish police who found "enormous amounts of child porn" at their villa.

Also, Spain is the only country in Europe where the legal age of consent is 13.  Do you want to take the risk that this was a coincidence?

If you still have doubts, maybe read this: http://privatewww.es...lecomplaint.pdf

Also, the bitcoin community thinks this: http://www.reddit.co...in_foundations/

I will even make a proposal.  It seems I should have joined as a platinum member a while ago to prevent something like this from happening.  If you commit to remove Brock Pierce from the board, I pledge to join as Platinum member and pay the $100k USD fee, within the next 24 hours.  I also urge you to update the bylaws to prevent people from joining if they are involved in ongoing lawsuits (of the nasty kind), or have ever been convicted for anything nasty.  Or if their image is potentially damaging for the foundation.

[Gleb Gamow]

Bitcoin Jesus Motherfuckin' Christ!

Jim Harper is a current board member. Jim Harper was paid over $100K for services in 2014 from TBF's coffer.

Omg.  Not sure what is more hilarious, the number of factual inaccuracies you folks have or how certain you are of the truth of bad information.

Harper is not a board member.   He resigned as part of the board shakeup because he didn't see eye to eye with the other board members.

Harper was paid when he was not a board member by an Executive Director who is no longer there.   I never paid Harper anything.

See...this is the problem with wasting time with sarcasm.  

If you would have simply stated what your theory was, you could have gotten correct info.

I misspoke. Jim Harper WAS a board member.

http://www.coindesk.com/harper-janssens-exit-bitcoin-foundation/

Bitcoin Foundation board members Jim Harper and Olivier Janssens have resigned and been removed from the trade organization, respectively, following a disagreement over the future of the advocacy group.

I have not been presented any evidence of any theft, criminal act or similar wrongdoing but would be *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%* for anyone with information and evidence of any such act leading to recovery of any funds which were misappropriated or stolen.  Those who imply that there is any wrongdoing at the foundation now or by those involved now should come forward with evidence or at least a solid and specific accusation.  If presented with any such evidence I would work to have justice done.

Great, then look into what Jim Harper was paid for back in 2014 to the tune of $113,833 USD, then report back here your findings. Deal?

[BruceFenton]

Great, then look into what Jim Harper was paid for back in 2014 to the tune of $113,833 USD, then report back here your findings. Deal?

Harper was hired by the people in charge at the time to serve as global public policy counsel.  Someone worked for the foundation?   Sure.  Um, yeah.  That's not a secret.  I mention that people worked there, including salaries, in the original post.   He left, after he left he ran for office of a board seat and won. 

I think there were too many employees and that many roles were not needed and that the salaries were too high - I have no idea if Jim was a good value at the time - I have no way of evaluating since I didn't work with him then.   During his time on the board he seemed diligent and competent.   If he was overpriced there is no law against that type of bad decision.

I know you want to find evidence of something more than mismanagement, bad decisions and waste.  Maybe it exists....no one knows.   What I'd suggest though is to put things in a format of:   "I accuse _____ of _____ (crime/ bad act) based on ______ evidence."   This might encourage some basic critical thinking.

[Gleb Gamow]

If you want to hand-wave away early unsavoury behaviour, fine. Shady business dealings? Why not? I'm not a judge or jury. You associate with you you associate with. I'd sooner this lot of neckbeards for company, myself. And the 10 or so other board members, the ones BMB had to tell you about, do you know why they left?

So many incorrect assumptions it's no wonder there is so much misunderstanding.

1) I'm not hand waiving away past bad behavior. I'm shining a light on it - read the original post in this thread, I call out bad spending as ridiculous

2) agreed that who you associate with is important -- I'm not sure why the concept of someone being called in for a turnaround situation is hard to understand -- I do not and have no associated with the bad actors who made these bad decisions -- I've certainly never worked with any of them

3) 10 board members did not leave -- according to the article it was 10 regular members... out of 1500 (looking back at the old forum I doubt it was even that high) - yes, the reason they left appears to have been largely based on the same accusation in this thread that one board member was involved in a sex scandal -- this accusation was pretty much entirely debunked as unfounded -

Dude, you've really pissed me off now! I just wasted a bunch of time reading a mess of your posts on this forum seeking spelling errors on your part and came up empty-handed (had to Google to see if a hyphen was needed).  

[Bitcoinpro]

Bitcoin Jesus Motherfuckin' Christ!

Jim Harper is a current board member. Jim Harper was paid over $100K for services in 2014 from TBF's coffer.

Omg.  Not sure what is more hilarious, the number of factual inaccuracies you folks have or how certain you are of the truth of bad information.

Harper is not a board member.   He resigned as part of the board shakeup because he didn't see eye to eye with the other board members.

Harper was paid when he was not a board member by an Executive Director who is no longer there.   I never paid Harper anything.

See...this is the problem with wasting time with sarcasm.  

If you would have simply stated what your theory was, you could have gotten correct info.

I misspoke. Jim Harper WAS a board member.

http://www.coindesk.com/harper-janssens-exit-bitcoin-foundation/

Bitcoin Foundation board members Jim Harper and Olivier Janssens have resigned and been removed from the trade organization, respectively, following a disagreement over the future of the advocacy group.

I have not been presented any evidence of any theft, criminal act or similar wrongdoing but would be *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%* for anyone with information and evidence of any such act leading to recovery of any funds which were misappropriated or stolen.  Those who imply that there is any wrongdoing at the foundation now or by those involved now should come forward with evidence or at least a solid and specific accusation.  If presented with any such evidence I would work to have justice done.

Great, then look into what Jim Harper was paid for back in 2014 to the tune of $113,833 USD, then report back here your findings. Deal?

it was obvious u meant he was a board member, Bruce is a pathalogical liar he must be holding

onto funds or assets belonging to the Bitcoin Foundation and is hoping those arnt dissolved

if the BF is shuttered, their could be no other reason for his bizarre and maniacal attemp to

distort and ignore the truth at every step, the Snort is strong with this one

[Gleb Gamow]

Great, then look into what Jim Harper was paid for back in 2014 to the tune of $113,833 USD, then report back here your findings. Deal?

Harper was hired by the people in charge at the time to serve as global public policy counsel.  Someone worked for the foundation?   Sure.  Um, yeah.  That's not a secret.  I mention that people worked there, including salaries, in the original post.   He left, after he left he ran for office of a board seat and won. 

I think there were too many employees and that many roles were not needed and that the salaries were too high - I have no idea if Jim was a good value at the time - I have no way of evaluating since I didn't work with him then.   During his time on the board he seemed diligent and competent.   If he was overpriced there is no law against that type of bad decision.

I know you want to find evidence of something more than mismanagement, bad decisions and waste.  Maybe it exists....no one knows.   What I'd suggest though is to put things in a format of:   "I accuse _____ of _____ (crime/ bad act) based on ______ evidence."   This might encourage some basic critical thinking.

As I've mentioned, ThePolicyCounsil.com was never a working website (was even for sale in 2014, as I've depicted) nor can I find incorp docs of ThePolicyCounsil.com INC which was paid the aforementioned amount.

[BruceFenton]

If based on this thread, you are basing your very, very serious accusations against Brock apparently on three things:

1) a Reddit post
2) an accusation against an associate of his

Does this seem like a standard worthy of the accusation?

Consider:

1) the Reddit post is by Olivier who resigned, then came and was on the board -- he also made accusations of Mark Karpeles hiring assassins and others

2) the accuser was proven to be false and was actually scolded by the judge

[BruceFenton]

As I've mentioned, ThePolicyCounsil.com was never a working website (was even for sale in 2014, as I've depicted) nor can I find incorp docs of ThePolicyCounsil.com INC which was paid the aforementioned amount.

Again, no idea what you are accusing.

Is the accusation that Jim didn't have a website?  That he was paid as reported?  Do you think he was paid differently than what was reported?  What?  I said I'm glad to seek justice for any illegal act....but I don't even see what you are accusing.

Try the format:

I accuse _____ of _____ (crime/ bad act) based on ______ evidence."   This might encourage some basic critical thinking.

[Bitcoinpro]

Great, then look into what Jim Harper was paid for back in 2014 to the tune of $113,833 USD, then report back here your findings. Deal?

Harper was hired by the people in charge at the time to serve as global public policy counsel.  Someone worked for the foundation?   Sure.  Um, yeah.  That's not a secret.  I mention that people worked there, including salaries, in the original post.   He left, after he left he ran for office of a board seat and won.  

I think there were too many employees and that many roles were not needed and that the salaries were too high - I have no idea if Jim was a good value at the time - I have no way of evaluating since I didn't work with him then.   During his time on the board he seemed diligent and competent.   If he was overpriced there is no law against that type of bad decision.

I know you want to find evidence of something more than mismanagement, bad decisions and waste.  Maybe it exists....no one knows.   What I'd suggest though is to put things in a format of:   "I accuse _____ of _____ (crime/ bad act) based on ______ evidence."   This might encourage some basic critical thinking.

critical thinking is not your strong point son, snort obviously is,

pretending to rationalize your thoughts actions and words

is really a sick and discusting way of trying to take a morale

high ground when it is completely obvious none exists,

ur such a shady n moraly bankrupt individual ur so embedded

in this contemptuous brand where u think denying obvious

facts and proof that people restate such obvious facts over

and over is nessesary, when ur only objective is the snort

is so funny, im suprised ur even able to build a conciousness

on such a childish ego but ive seen it before enuff times

to believe it,

[Gleb Gamow]

If based on this thread, you are basing your very, very serious accusations against Brock apparently on three things:

1) a Reddit post
2) an accusation against an associate of his

Does this seem like a standard worthy of the accusation?

Consider:

1) the Reddit post is by Olivier who resigned, then came and was on the board -- he also made accusations of Mark Karpeles hiring assassins and others

2) the accuser was proven to be false and was actually scolded by the judge

Actually, it was I who did most of the digging on Brock, whereupon others expanded upon and/or acted on mine and subsequent findings.

[BruceFenton]

Actually, it was I who did most of the digging on Brock, whereupon others expanded upon and/or acted on mine and subsequent findings.

Yet, you were somehow unaware that the accuser (who didn't even accuse a rock btw...but an associate of his) was a serial accuser proven to have lied in several cases and even scolded by the judge to the point that no lawyer would represent him?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

As I've mentioned, ThePolicyCounsil.com was never a working website (was even for sale in 2014, as I've depicted) nor can I find incorp docs of ThePolicyCounsil.com INC which was paid the aforementioned amount.

Again, no idea what you are accusing.

Is the accusation that Jim didn't have a website?  That he was paid as reported?  Do you think he was paid differently than what was reported?  What?  I said I'm glad to seek justice for any illegal act....but I don't even see what you are accusing.

Try the format:

I accuse _____ of _____ (crime/ bad act) based on ______ evidence."   This might encourage some basic critical thinking.

I accuse you and Brock Pierce of mincing about with the dead body of The Bitcoin Foundation a la Weekend at Bernie's. There, I said it.

[BruceFenton]

critical  thinking is not your strong point son, snort obviously is,

pretending to rationalize your thoughts actions and words

is really a sick and discusting way of trying to take a morale

high ground when it is completely obvious none exists,

ur such a shady n moraly bankrupt individual ur so embedded

in this contemptuous brand where u think denying obvious

facts and proof that people restate such obvious facts over

and over is nessesary, when ur only objective is the snort

is so funny, im suprised ur even able to build a conciousness

on such a childish ego but ive seen ot before enuff times

to believe it,

I thought this forum was moderated.

This guy's postings consist entirely of misspelled and grammatical errors with no coherent thought, filled with wild accusations which are not backed by even a coherent basis for the accusation let alone any evidence

[Gleb Gamow]

Actually, it was I who did most of the digging on Brock, whereupon others expanded upon and/or acted on mine and subsequent findings.

Yet, you were somehow unaware that the accuser (who didn't even accuse a rock btw...but an associate of his) was a serial accuser proven to have lied in several cases and even scolded by the judge to the point that no lawyer would represent him?

Curious, as to where I ever penned that I wasn't aware of Egan's accusations.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

"Chad's World was the first signal that maybe things weren't right with DEN," says Winter. "It was definitely, um, ahead of its time."

It felt like a "gay pedophile version of Silver Spoons," adds another industry observer who saw the pilot and five unaired episodes. "I first thought it was some sick fantasy of theirs," he adds. "When I found out about the molestation charges, I realized that it was more a case of art imitating life."

Another regular at the mansion was DEN executive VP Brock Pierce. He was aggressive and self-assured, with blond hair and an insouciant pout. He was also still a teenager—17 years old and coming off a successful career as a child actor, with The Mighty Ducks and First Kid among his credits. According to a DEN board member, Pierce was hired as "the guy who could tell us what Gen Y-ers were likely to think." This talent came in handy not only in targeting the youth demographic, but also in bringing a supply of beautiful young men to the estate, lured with vague promises of fame as the Internet's first TV stars.

Eventually, a number of these acolytes would file lawsuits alleging they were raped and/or sexually abused at M&C by the three cofounders. Their charges are remarkably consistent—all claim they were bullied and drugged to coerce sexual compliance, and in some cases, threatened with loaded guns. When the plaintiffs filed civil suits against Collins-Rector, Shackley, and Pierce, the three suddenly disappeared with what remained of their fortune—turning up two years later living in a villa in Spain.

[BruceFenton]

Curious, as to where I ever penned that I wasn't aware of Egan's accusations.

Not the accusations, but that they were discredited.

Do you have other evidence?  Because so far the only thing you put forward was an accusation which was proven false.

[Gleb Gamow]

As I've mentioned, ThePolicyCounsil.com was never a working website (was even for sale in 2014, as I've depicted) nor can I find incorp docs of ThePolicyCounsil.com INC which was paid the aforementioned amount.

Again, no idea what you are accusing.

Is the accusation that Jim didn't have a website?  That he was paid as reported?  Do you think he was paid differently than what was reported?  What?  I said I'm glad to seek justice for any illegal act....but I don't even see what you are accusing.

Try the format:

I accuse _____ of _____ (crime/ bad act) based on ______ evidence."   This might encourage some basic critical thinking.

I accuse you and Brock Pierce of mincing about with the dead body of The Bitcoin Foundation a la Weekend at Bernie's. There, I said it.

Oh, fuck! Dude played the Weekend at Bernie's Card. Now you got Bruce reevaluating his card holdings in hope of trumping your unexpected play. This could get interesting.

Mrs. Fenton: Bruce, are you coming to bed?
Bruce: Not yet! Busy Googling Weekend at Bernie's.
Mrs. Fenton: You're not playing some card game again, are you?
Bruce: I can not lie. Yes, dear.

[Gleb Gamow]

"Chad's World was the first signal that maybe things weren't right with DEN," says Winter. "It was definitely, um, ahead of its time."

It felt like a "gay pedophile version of Silver Spoons," adds another industry observer who saw the pilot and five unaired episodes. "I first thought it was some sick fantasy of theirs," he adds. "When I found out about the molestation charges, I realized that it was more a case of art imitating life."

Another regular at the mansion was DEN executive VP Brock Pierce. He was aggressive and self-assured, with blond hair and an insouciant pout. He was also still a teenager—17 years old and coming off a successful career as a child actor, with The Mighty Ducks and First Kid among his credits. According to a DEN board member, Pierce was hired as "the guy who could tell us what Gen Y-ers were likely to think." This talent came in handy not only in targeting the youth demographic, but also in bringing a supply of beautiful young men to the estate, lured with vague promises of fame as the Internet's first TV stars.

Eventually, a number of these acolytes would file lawsuits alleging they were raped and/or sexually abused at M&C by the three cofounders. Their charges are remarkably consistent—all claim they were bullied and drugged to coerce sexual compliance, and in some cases, threatened with loaded guns. When the plaintiffs filed civil suits against Collins-Rector, Shackley, and Pierce, the three suddenly disappeared with what remained of their fortune—turning up two years later living in a villa in Spain.

I've spoke extensively with Radar's John Gorenfeld when he called me by phone.

[Gleb Gamow]

Curious, as to where I ever penned that I wasn't aware of Egan's accusations.

Not the accusations, but that they were discredited.

Do you have other evidence?  Because so far the only thing you put forward was an accusation which was proven false.

There's more to the story than just the sexual side, e.g., IGE.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Curious, as to where I ever penned that I wasn't aware of Egan's accusations.

Not the accusations, but that they were discredited.

Do you have other evidence?  Because so far the only thing you put forward was an accusation which was proven false.

There's more to the story than just the sexual side, e.g., IGE.

Basically he's no one anyone would want representing them in the media? Is that basically what you're saying?

[J. J. Phillips]

I'm no fan of TBF at all, but I wanted to give Bruce Fenton and others some relevant information. In late 2014 Bruno (Gleb/Phinneas) made a wild accusation against Patrick Murck on this forum:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=851373.0

The original title was more provocative. He never backed up his accusation with any evidence, of course, and it was always reasonably clear it was just something he was making up.

Frankly, Bruno is probably seriously mentally ill and delusional. He has no credibility and no weight should be given to what he says. On the other hand, it wouldn't be particularly surprising if he turns out to be a physical threat to people due to his mental instability. He should be taken seriously in this sense.

Regarding TBF, it should just shut down.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Let's see, the managers of the Bitcoin (money) Foundation can't seem to manage money effectively.  What a fucking start for bitcoin.  History is going to look back on this in a few years, and it's going to taste bitter.  Not sure why such an organization exists in the first place.  What a world.

[Gleb Gamow]

I'm no fan of TBF at all, but I wanted to give Bruce Fenton and others some relevant information. In late 2014 Bruno (Gleb/Phinneas) made a wild accusation against Patrick Murck on this forum:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=851373.0

The original title was more provocative. He never backed up his accusation with any evidence, of course, and it was always reasonably clear it was just something he was making up.

Frankly, Bruno is probably seriously mentally ill and delusional. He has no credibility and no weight should be given to what he says. On the other hand, it wouldn't be particularly surprising if he turns out to be a physical threat to people due to his mental instability. He should be taken seriously in this sense.

Regarding TBF, it should just shut down.

What J.J. is in reference to is me calling Patrick a pedophile via a thread I started on this forum (EDIT: I see now that it was cited, with apologies for missing it) in response to a post he made on Reddit of which I'll gladly retrieve if requested. I didn't back up the accusation because there was no evidence. That said, I don't know who the fuck you are, J.J., but rest assured that I'm mentally stable.

And, for a dude who shouldn't be taken seriously, again, it was because of my findings and another thread I started on this forum that cause a many members to leave TBF, resonating to compound your sentiment that the TBF should be shut down, ergo your actions directly and indirectly stem from the person - ME - who you're claiming has no cred. Weird, ain't it?

To help you out, dude, I believe you meant to pen 'shouldn't' or include the word 'not' in the phrase I highlighted above.

[Gleb Gamow]

I'm no fan of TBF at all, but I wanted to give Bruce Fenton and others some relevant information. In late 2014 Bruno (Gleb/Phinneas) made a wild accusation against Patrick Murck on this forum:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=851373.0

The original title was more provocative. He never backed up his accusation with any evidence, of course, and it was always reasonably clear it was just something he was making up.

Frankly, Bruno is probably seriously mentally ill and delusional. He has no credibility and no weight should be given to what he says. On the other hand, it wouldn't be particularly surprising if he turns out to be a physical threat to people due to his mental instability. He should be taken seriously in this sense.

Regarding TBF, it should just shut down.

Also, don't forget to cite my satirical posts on wanting to fuck goats and pre-teen boys. I look forward to following your links to said while giving myself eggnog enemas. BTW, my eggnog enemas references are satire based on something Marshall Long penned a few days ago. You know Marshall Long, don't you? He's cryptocurrency's serial liar claiming to have started in Bitcoin in 2009, since disproved by me, and attended the Satoshi Roundtable with Bruce Fenton, in case you're not up to speed. Follow the link in my sig if you're not versed on the makings of a serial liar. I promise you won't be disappointed.

[Gleb Gamow]

http://web.archive.org/web/20130623012541/http://policycounsel.com/



The above is for policycounsel.com. In 2014, Jim Harper formed policycounsel.com[INC] and got paid over a hundred grain performing services for TBF, later elected to the Board in 2015.

The above was from 2013. The following is from 2008: http://web.archive.org/web/20080502014234/http://www.cato.org/people/jim-harper/

As director of information policy studies, Jim Harper focuses on the difficult problems of adapting law and policy to the unique problems of the information age. Harper is a member of the Department of Homeland Security's Data Privacy and Integrity Advisory Committee. His work has been cited by USA Today, the Associated Press, and Reuters. He has appeared on Fox News Channel, CBS, and MSNBC, and other media. His scholarly articles have appeared in the Administrative Law Review, the Minnesota Law Review, and the Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly. Recently, Harper wrote the book Identity Crisis: How Identification Is Overused and Misunderstood. Harper is the editor of Privacilla.org, a Web-based think tank devoted exclusively to privacy, and he maintains online federal spending resource WashingtonWatch.com. He holds a J.D. from UC Hastings College of Law.

http://www.cato.org/people/jim-harper

Jim Harper is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, working to adapt law and policy to the information age in areas such as privacy, cybersecurity, telecommunications, intellectual property, counterterrorism, government transparency, and digital currency. A former counsel to committees in both the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate, he went on to represent companies such as PayPal, ICO-Teledesic, DigitalGlobe, and Verisign, and in 2014 he served as Global Policy Counsel for the Bitcoin Foundation.

A founding member of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Data Privacy and Integrity Advisory Committee, Harper co-edited the book Terrorizing Ourselves: How U.S. Counterterrorism Policy Is Failing and How to Fix It. He has written several amicus briefs in Fourth Amendment cases before the U.S. Supreme Court, and is the author of Identity Crisis: How Identification Is Overused and Misunderstood. He has been cited by numerous print, Internet, and television media outlets and has written for the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and other leading publications. His scholarly articles have appeared in the Administrative Law Review, Minnesota Law Review, and Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly.

Harper holds a JD from the University of California–Hastings College of Law.

Curious, as to why TBF was paying TWO legal teams to perform duties related to the entity.

Apologies for not asking in question format, or using a format kindly offered up by Bruce.

Further, apologies for asking tough questions, regardless the format.

Aside: Anybody have any extra lithium I could have? I'm getting an urge to fuck a dead cat. If I can't find a dead cat, I'll kill one, then fuck the living shit outta it. (My doctor said it helps if I write down my feelings. I hope he meant that it's okay to do such publicly, otherwise I'm fucked - like a dead cat.)

[Gleb Gamow]

Jim Harper's policycouncil.com and thepolicycouncil.com is owned by Atlantic Media: https://whoisology.com/archive_12/policycouncil.com; https://whoisology.com/archive_12/thepolicycouncil.com (respectively)

[Bitcoinpro]

http://web.archive.org/web/20130623012541/http://policycounsel.com/



The above is for policycounsel.com. In 2014, Jim Harper formed policycounsel.com[INC] and got paid over a hundred grain performing services for TBF, later elected to the Board in 2015.

The above was from 2013. The following is from 2008: http://web.archive.org/web/20080502014234/http://www.cato.org/people/jim-harper/

As director of information policy studies, Jim Harper focuses on the difficult problems of adapting law and policy to the unique problems of the information age. Harper is a member of the Department of Homeland Security's Data Privacy and Integrity Advisory Committee. His work has been cited by USA Today, the Associated Press, and Reuters. He has appeared on Fox News Channel, CBS, and MSNBC, and other media. His scholarly articles have appeared in the Administrative Law Review, the Minnesota Law Review, and the Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly. Recently, Harper wrote the book Identity Crisis: How Identification Is Overused and Misunderstood. Harper is the editor of Privacilla.org, a Web-based think tank devoted exclusively to privacy, and he maintains online federal spending resource WashingtonWatch.com. He holds a J.D. from UC Hastings College of Law.

http://www.cato.org/people/jim-harper

Jim Harper is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, working to adapt law and policy to the information age in areas such as privacy, cybersecurity, telecommunications, intellectual property, counterterrorism, government transparency, and digital currency. A former counsel to committees in both the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate, he went on to represent companies such as PayPal, ICO-Teledesic, DigitalGlobe, and Verisign, and in 2014 he served as Global Policy Counsel for the Bitcoin Foundation.

A founding member of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s Data Privacy and Integrity Advisory Committee, Harper co-edited the book Terrorizing Ourselves: How U.S. Counterterrorism Policy Is Failing and How to Fix It. He has written several amicus briefs in Fourth Amendment cases before the U.S. Supreme Court, and is the author of Identity Crisis: How Identification Is Overused and Misunderstood. He has been cited by numerous print, Internet, and television media outlets and has written for the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and other leading publications. His scholarly articles have appeared in the Administrative Law Review, Minnesota Law Review, and Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly.

Harper holds a JD from the University of California–Hastings College of Law.

Curious, as to why TBF was paying TWO legal teams to perform duties related to the entity.

Apologies for not asking in question format, or using a format kindly offered up by Bruce.

Further, apologies for asking tough questions, regardless the format.

Aside: Anybody have any extra lithium I could have? I'm getting an urge to fuck a dead cat. If I can't find a dead cat, I'll kill one, then fuck the living shit outta it. (My doctor said it helps if I write down my feelings. I hope he meant that it's okay to do such publicly, otherwise I'm fucked - like a dead cat.)

U could put it down as some kind of quantum entanglement theory people eat that stuff up around here,

[franky1]

wow this topic exploded due to 'bitcoinpro' nonsense
10 pages in one night

and bitcoinpro has added nothing to the discussion apart from gibberish.
and yes i know by posting i have fed that troll. but i really wonder what his motivation in life is. as i just don't think its very much

[Gleb Gamow]

Which of the following four options is most likely to be true:

1.) I give myself eggnog enemas
2.) Santa Claus is real and has a personal Chief Investment Officer
3.) Both of the above
4.) None of the above

Full Disclosure: I may or may not be Googling "Bruce Fenton"  

[Gleb Gamow]

wow this topic exploded due to 'bitcoinpro' nonsense
10 pages in one night

and bitcoinpro has added nothing to the discussion apart from gibberish.
and yes i know by posting i have fed that troll. but i really wonder what his motivation in life is. as i just don't think its very much

To be fair, I've made a couple mistakes in my postings, but overall... (fuck, I forgot what I was goin' to say; perhaps I am mentally unnnnnnnnstable)

[Gleb Gamow]

FUCK YOU INTERNET FOR MAKING SPIT COFFEE ALL OVER MY LAPTOP!

http://www.fentonreport.com/economy/santa-claus-chief-investment-officer

Despite a strong belief in Bitcoin and regular watching of YouTube videos by Roger Ver, Santa has authorized only minimal purchases, primarily for gifts.  We purchased some fair sized coin blocks from Gemini, Barry Silbert and DCG and several gift cards from Gyft as well as Bitcoin allocations from Coinbase and Circle.  Santa will be using ChangeTip to give away Bitcoin on Christmas.  The elves in our treasury department have created a new position for the purpose of exchanging alt-coins and are using ShapeShift for this purpose.  We have taken a small position in publicly traded BTCS.  We were hoping that Coinbase, Circle and Bitfury would have provided allocations to recent funding rounds but the complete confidentiality of Santa’s existence proved difficult in the paperwork process so our attorneys, Marco Santori and Brian Klien advised against trying to buy this stock.

[franky1]

To be fair, I've made a couple mistakes in my postings, but overall... (fuck, I forgot what I was goin' to say; perhaps I am mentally unnnnnnnnstable)

atleast you add something that atleast resonates as being ontopic. even if you do go on a tangent i see it as just your comedic personality and trying to entertain people so that it subtly highlights your points. but others, i just dont get their point.

so lets reign in the topic back to its point.

Gleb, if you had been handed the title of CEO, Exec director, chairman .. whatever glorified name badge gives you the control to do what you want.. how would you set out to do something for the future of an organization thats purpose is to help the bitcoin community.. totally ignoring the past

[Bitcoinpro]

wow this topic exploded due to 'bitcoinpro' nonsense
10 pages in one night

and bitcoinpro has added nothing to the discussion apart from gibberish.
and yes i know by posting i have fed that troll. but i really wonder what his motivation in life is. as i just don't think its very much

U where bound to show up idiot thats why i made special mention to you

I sense the Snort in u is strong too, now i see where u get ur motivation

u sad mean little boy wallowing in ur drug addiction

[Bitcoinpro]

To be fair, I've made a couple mistakes in my postings, but overall... (fuck, I forgot what I was goin' to say; perhaps I am mentally unnnnnnnnstable)

atleast you add something that atleast resonates as being ontopic. even if you do go on a tangent i see it as just your comedic personality and trying to entertain people so that it subtly highlights your points. but others, i just dont get their point.

so lets reign in the topic back to its point.

Gleb, if you had been handed the title of CEO, Exec director, chairman .. whatever glorified name badge gives you the control to do what you want.. how would you set out to do something for the future of an organization thats purpose is to help the bitcoin community.. totally ignoring the past

Not associate or talk to a drug addicted idiot like u

prancing around like some little pink pony know all ******

[Gleb Gamow]

Admittedly I do not know who a lot about Bruce Fenton, I know he ran for election for the Bitcoin foundation, but I noticed something that is somewhat concerning.

I've been doing some digging into this website satoshiroundtable.org for fun. The whois information for it shows:

Code:

Tech Name:Bruce Fenton
Tech Organization:AF
Tech Street: 167 Washington Street
Tech City:Norwell
Tech State/Province:Massachusetts
Tech Postal Code:02061
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.6173814907
Tech Phone Ext: 
Tech Fax: 
Tech Fax Ext: 
Tech Email:domainadmin@fdvt.com

The WHOIS information for fdvt has the same address:

Code:

Tech Organization: FDVT
Tech Street: 167 Washington Street 
Tech City: Norwell
Tech State/Province: MA
Tech Postal Code: 02061
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.7819824911
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech Fax: 
Tech Fax Ext.:
Tech Email: domainadmin@fdvt.com

Now for the weird/conspiracy bit, check out the website http://fdvt.com

FDVT was founded in 1985.  We provide solutions to help understand changes in our world.  Specifically we provide IT consulting, Internet consulting, social media consulting, security and economic advisory consulting.

Customers of FDVT include:

US Army
US Navy
US Coast Guard
US Air Force
US Postal Service
US Postal Inspector Service
FBI - Federal Bureau of Investigation
IRS - Internal Revue Service
DEA - Drug Enforcement Agency
Veterans Administration
City Of New York and New York Police Department (NYPD)
Eastern Bank
TCF Bank
Bank of America

Why does this company FDVT has some connection to the Satoshi Roundtable? This is concerning.

And Bruce Fenton invited the serial liar Marshall Long to Satoshi Roundtable because...

[Bitcoinpro]

Admittedly I do not know who a lot about Bruce Fenton, I know he ran for election for the Bitcoin foundation, but I noticed something that is somewhat concerning.

I've been doing some digging into this website satoshiroundtable.org for fun. The whois information for it shows:

Code:

Tech Name:Bruce Fenton
Tech Organization:AF
Tech Street: 167 Washington Street
Tech City:Norwell
Tech State/Province:Massachusetts
Tech Postal Code:02061
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.6173814907
Tech Phone Ext: 
Tech Fax: 
Tech Fax Ext: 
Tech Email:domainadmin@fdvt.com

The WHOIS information for fdvt has the same address:

Code:

Tech Organization: FDVT
Tech Street: 167 Washington Street 
Tech City: Norwell
Tech State/Province: MA
Tech Postal Code: 02061
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.7819824911
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech Fax: 
Tech Fax Ext.:
Tech Email: domainadmin@fdvt.com

Now for the weird/conspiracy bit, check out the website http://fdvt.com

FDVT was founded in 1985.  We provide solutions to help understand changes in our world.  Specifically we provide IT consulting, Internet consulting, social media consulting, security and economic advisory consulting.

Customers of FDVT include:

US Army
US Navy
US Coast Guard
US Air Force
US Postal Service
US Postal Inspector Service
FBI - Federal Bureau of Investigation
IRS - Internal Revue Service
DEA - Drug Enforcement Agency
Veterans Administration
City Of New York and New York Police Department (NYPD)
Eastern Bank
TCF Bank
Bank of America

Why does this company FDVT has some connection to the Satoshi Roundtable? This is concerning.

And Bruce Fenton invited the serial liar Marshall Long to Satoshi Roundtable because...

and then the two little rats ran away

[Gleb Gamow]

http://web.archive.org/web/20071109010915/http://fleetwoodvideo.com/contact.html



I guess on Fantasy Island, if Marshall Long can say that he was mining bitcoins in 2009, I guess Bruce Fenton can accept them in 2007 as payment for military grade cameras. Follow the link above if you don't believe the image. I sure the hell would if presented with such. Afterwards, mail me your explanations to an address I lived at in 1978 so I can get up to speed.

https://www.wealthminder.com/financial-advisors/advisory-firms/af-asset-management/23004?pageNum=1

http://www.spoke.com/companies/atlantic-financial-3e122f809e597c100340cbfd

http://posts.same.org/JEETCE2007/presentations/3.1Golden.pdf

In re. the three links above, is the USAF somehow connected with Bitcoin?

[Sugarape]

Why do people care where their money has gone? The quicker they bankrupt themselves the better. The one thing that corrupts organizations like this is money and the power that comes along with it. Any company could buy their way into the foundation so it was corrupt from the start and was obvious those seeking to only line their own pockets would steer it where they wanted it to go but seems like mismanagement has fucked them up. I'd prefer they just desolve to be honest.

[Bitcoinpro]

http://web.archive.org/web/20071109010915/http://fleetwoodvideo.com/contact.html



I guess on Fantasy Island, if Marshall Long can say that he was mining bitcoins in 2009, I guess Bruce Fenton can accept them in 2007 as payment for military grade cameras. Follow the link above if you don't believe the image. I sure the hell would if presented with such. Afterwards, mail me your explanations to an address I lived at in 1978 so I can get up to speed.

https://www.wealthminder.com/financial-advisors/advisory-firms/af-asset-management/23004?pageNum=1

http://www.spoke.com/companies/atlantic-financial-3e122f809e597c100340cbfd

http://posts.same.org/JEETCE2007/presentations/3.1Golden.pdf

In re. the three links above, is the USAF somehow connected with Bitcoin?

wat image are we supposed to be seeing lol

[Bitcoinpro]

http://web.archive.org/web/20071109010915/http://fleetwoodvideo.com/contact.html



I guess on Fantasy Island, if Marshall Long can say that he was mining bitcoins in 2009, I guess Bruce Fenton can accept them in 2007 as payment for military grade cameras. Follow the link above if you don't believe the image. I sure the hell would if presented with such. Afterwards, mail me your explanations to an address I lived at in 1978 so I can get up to speed.

https://www.wealthminder.com/financial-advisors/advisory-firms/af-asset-management/23004?pageNum=1

http://www.spoke.com/companies/atlantic-financial-3e122f809e597c100340cbfd

http://posts.same.org/JEETCE2007/presentations/3.1Golden.pdf

In re. the three links above, is the USAF somehow connected with Bitcoin?

As some stage they had a pilot program where they where exploring

Bitcoin payment gateways the story was dated around 2013 i think

[Gleb Gamow]

http://web.archive.org/web/20071109010915/http://fleetwoodvideo.com/contact.html



I guess on Fantasy Island, if Marshall Long can say that he was mining bitcoins in 2009, I guess Bruce Fenton can accept them in 2007 as payment for military grade cameras. Follow the link above if you don't believe the image. I sure the hell would if presented with such. Afterwards, mail me your explanations to an address I lived at in 1978 so I can get up to speed.

https://www.wealthminder.com/financial-advisors/advisory-firms/af-asset-management/23004?pageNum=1

http://www.spoke.com/companies/atlantic-financial-3e122f809e597c100340cbfd

http://posts.same.org/JEETCE2007/presentations/3.1Golden.pdf

In re. the three links above, is the USAF somehow connected with Bitcoin?

wat image are we supposed to be seeing lol

The image above is seen on the link I provided. I just clicked the link and it appears after about three seconds.

[Gleb Gamow]

http://web.archive.org/web/20071109010915/http://fleetwoodvideo.com/contact.html



I guess on Fantasy Island, if Marshall Long can say that he was mining bitcoins in 2009, I guess Bruce Fenton can accept them in 2007 as payment for military grade cameras. Follow the link above if you don't believe the image. I sure the hell would if presented with such. Afterwards, mail me your explanations to an address I lived at in 1978 so I can get up to speed.

https://www.wealthminder.com/financial-advisors/advisory-firms/af-asset-management/23004?pageNum=1

http://www.spoke.com/companies/atlantic-financial-3e122f809e597c100340cbfd

http://posts.same.org/JEETCE2007/presentations/3.1Golden.pdf

In re. the three links above, is the USAF somehow connected with Bitcoin?

As some stage they had a pilot program where they where exploring

Bitcoin payment gateways the story was dated around 2013 i think

So that my satire in the post doesn't freak out Bruce, it's most likely an unexplained glitched of sorts, to be far.

[franky1]

bruno i know we all love the satire and comedy personality of 'gleb' when it comes to pointing out inconsistancies of the past and scams, etc.

but can you put your phineas gage hat on and answer this

Gleb, if you had been handed the title of CEO, Exec director, chairman .. whatever glorified name badge gives you the control to do what you want.. how would you set out to do something for the future of an organization thats purpose is to help the bitcoin community.. totally ignoring the past

[BruceFenton]

So that my satire in the post doesn't freak out Bruce, it's most likely an unexplained glitched of sorts, to be far.

You are talking gibberish again.  You seem to be just searching for my name and posting random nonsense.

 No earthly idea what the screenshot and cryptic text posted with it means, because you don't say.

No idea what you are accusing Harper of.

In this entire time wasting endeavor I don't see a single actual specific issue listed with something I've done that you have an issue with.

[tomothy]

Hi Bruce,

I've read through this thread and appreciate the time you've spent trying to answer various questions in a civil manner. Overall I'm having difficulty recognizing why anyone would want to contribute to TBF. It seems that wall street has decided to join R3 and in order for TBF to survive, you need participation of large institutions. What is being done to court these participants? Is this something that has been considered?

You mentioned that their are certain debts the foundation is currently obligated to repay which are not necessarily included in the approximate remaining coffers of ~$330k. Do you have a ball park of what those costs are and/or what a monthly break down looks like? It seems like you've done the unpleasant task of streamlining the foundation to be able to survive in this current environment but the stark reality is that such actions could still be insufficient. It's clear that the price drop from $800 was disastrous. To that extent, have bitcoins been converted to USD or are they continuing to be held in electronic format. Do you have hedges in place to protect the remaining assets?

My understanding of the current TBF goals, as enumerated in your mission statement, are:

1) Fostering Core Development
2) Furthering education & adoption
3) Working to limit harmful regulations and encourage technical rather than regulatory solutions

You mention that "The foundation Chief Scientist is Gavin Andresen." I'm assuming that this is no longer a salary position and he is compensated via MIT? Is that a correct understanding. Assuming that is the case, one of the biggest current divisive factors in bitcoin is the block size debate. Do the values and interests of TBF align with 'Bitcoin Core' given the fact that your chief scientist is Gavin Andersen? I applaud the goal of helping encourage technical consensus but have difficulty seeing how this will happen.  It seems like lines have been drawn in the sand and you are either with or against certain interests. How can bitcoin succeed without destroying itself? Is Devcore something that should even be continued in light of the other various conferences and their success or lackof?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses. It's tough to be a bitcoiner right now especially looking at Nasdaq's usage of private blockchain's to conduct private asset sales. What happened to bitcoin.

(Edit: Necessary edit to include unfounded slurs and allegations about liars and thieves and how bitcoin is ponzi, Is psost o.k now spelng errers tooo?)

[Gleb Gamow]

So that my satire in the post doesn't freak out Bruce, it's most likely an unexplained glitched of sorts, to be far.

You are talking gibberish again.  You seem to be just searching for my name and posting random nonsense.

 No earthly idea what the screenshot and cryptic text posted with it means, because you don't say.

No idea what you are accusing Harper of.

In this entire time wasting endeavor I don't see a single actual specific issue listed with something I've done that you have an issue with.

Is this your first post after your morning coffee?

[RoadStress]

6 pages and no reply to what I thought to be a decent curiosity? Well done Bitcoinpro and Gleb Gamow!

Well done to you BruceFenton too! Excellent PR for this forum

[Gleb Gamow]

Hi Bruce,

I've read through this thread and appreciate the time you've spent trying to answer various questions in a civil manner. Overall I'm having difficulty recognizing why anyone would want to contribute to TBF. It seems that wall street has decided to join R3 and in order for TBF to survive, you need participation of large institutions. What is being done to court these participants? Is this something that has been considered?

You mentioned that their are certain debts the foundation is currently obligated to repay which are not necessarily included in the approximate remaining coffers of ~$330k. Do you have a ball park of what those costs are and/or what a monthly break down looks like? It seems like you've done the unpleasant task of streamlining the foundation to be able to survive in this current environment but the stark reality is that such actions could still be insufficient. It's clear that the price drop from $800 was disastrous. To that extent, have bitcoins been converted to USD or are they continuing to be held in electronic format. Do you have hedges in place to protect the remaining assets?

My understanding of the current TBF goals, as enumerated in your mission statement, are:

1) Fostering Core Development
2) Furthering education & adoption
3) Working to limit harmful regulations and encourage technical rather than regulatory solutions

You mention that "The foundation Chief Scientist is Gavin Andresen." I'm assuming that this is no longer a salary position and he is compensated via MIT? Is that a correct understanding. Assuming that is the case, one of the biggest current divisive factors in bitcoin is the block size debate. Do the values and interests of TBF align with 'Bitcoin Core' given the fact that your chief scientist is Gavin Andersen? I applaud the goal of helping encourage technical consensus but have difficulty seeing how this will happen.  It seems like lines have been drawn in the sand and you are either with or against certain interests. How can bitcoin succeed without destroying itself? Is Devcore something that should even be continued in light of the other various conferences and their success or lackof?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses. It's tough to be a bitcoiner right now especially looking at Nasdaq's usage of private blockchain's to conduct private asset sales. What happened to bitcoin.

I quit reading at the last highlighted text so to relay to the community that finally a trustworthy Bitcoiner has join this thread.

THIS POST IS SATIRE!

[tomothy]

THIS POST IS SATIRE!

+1

[Gleb Gamow]

THIS POST IS SATIRE!

+1

To be fair with you, bud, I did read the rest of your post and found most your questions to stem from a sound mind oppose to what I spew because I'm mentally unnnnnnstable special. 

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

As I've mentioned, ThePolicyCounsil.com was never a working website (was even for sale in 2014, as I've depicted) nor can I find incorp docs of ThePolicyCounsil.com INC which was paid the aforementioned amount.

Again, no idea what you are accusing.

Is the accusation that Jim didn't have a website?  That he was paid as reported?  Do you think he was paid differently than what was reported?  What?  I said I'm glad to seek justice for any illegal act....but I don't even see what you are accusing.

Try the format:

I accuse _____ of _____ (crime/ bad act) based on ______ evidence."   This might encourage some basic critical thinking.

I accuse you and Brock Pierce of mincing about with the dead body of The Bitcoin Foundation a la Weekend at Bernie's. There, I said it.

Oh, fuck! Dude played the Weekend at Bernie's Card. Now you got Bruce reevaluating his card holdings in hope of trumping your unexpected play. This could get interesting.

[BruceFenton]

Hi Bruce,

I've read through this thread and appreciate the time you've spent trying to answer various questions in a civil manner. Overall I'm having difficulty recognizing why anyone would want to contribute to TBF. It seems that wall street has decided to join R3 and in order for TBF to survive, you need participation of large institutions. What is being done to court these participants? Is this something that has been considered?

You mentioned that their are certain debts the foundation is currently obligated to repay which are not necessarily included in the approximate remaining coffers of ~$330k. Do you have a ball park of what those costs are and/or what a monthly break down looks like? It seems like you've done the unpleasant task of streamlining the foundation to be able to survive in this current environment but the stark reality is that such actions could still be insufficient. It's clear that the price drop from $800 was disastrous. To that extent, have bitcoins been converted to USD or are they continuing to be held in electronic format. Do you have hedges in place to protect the remaining assets?

My understanding of the current TBF goals, as enumerated in your mission statement, are:

1) Fostering Core Development
2) Furthering education & adoption
3) Working to limit harmful regulations and encourage technical rather than regulatory solutions

You mention that "The foundation Chief Scientist is Gavin Andresen." I'm assuming that this is no longer a salary position and he is compensated via MIT? Is that a correct understanding. Assuming that is the case, one of the biggest current divisive factors in bitcoin is the block size debate. Do the values and interests of TBF align with 'Bitcoin Core' given the fact that your chief scientist is Gavin Andersen? I applaud the goal of helping encourage technical consensus but have difficulty seeing how this will happen.  It seems like lines have been drawn in the sand and you are either with or against certain interests. How can bitcoin succeed without destroying itself? Is Devcore something that should even be continued in light of the other various conferences and their success or lackof?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses. It's tough to be a bitcoiner right now especially looking at Nasdaq's usage of private blockchain's to conduct private asset sales. What happened to bitcoin.

(Edit: Necessary edit to include unfounded slurs and allegations about liars and thieves and how bitcoin is ponzi, Is psost o.k now spelng errers tooo?)

Well there really isn't any money left.  When I came aboard there was less than $70k and still plenty of outstanding obligations on the books.

Yes, that mission is the main priority.

Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation.

We've tried to remain neutral on the block size debate in an effort to represent all members -- for example I worked very hard to get Greg Maxwell to speak at DevCore so that there would be a mix of opinions on blocksize.

I think DevCore is a great conference.

[bArAPIc74b]

I admit that I’ve always been a little skeptical of Bruce Fenton's work history claims.  Different firms with limited web presence and no specific deals listed anywhere.  Poorly crafted main website that also doesn't list any employees or specific deals done:  http://www.atlanticfinancial.com/

So I did a little more digging, it does seem at a minimum that there is some puffery in his bio and some misstatements in some comments he made as part of his running for Director of the Foundation.  I’ll go through my research in the order it occurred, as some of the conclusions evolved through the process, and am trying to be neutral.  Also, I note that all the info linked is either information Bruce has published, or is publically available info by virtue of his business activities.

First, take a look at his linkedin page:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brucefenton  Give it a read, looks pretty impressive.

And then go to this link which shows the form ADV for his current firm, Atlantic Financial.  On the left, there is link for "view all in PDF."  http://www.adviserinfo.sec.gov/iapd/content/viewform/adv/Sections/iapd_AdvRegulatorStatusSection.aspx?ORG_PK=159167&RGLTR_PK=50030&STATE_CD=MA&FLNG_PK=00AFF2940008017C01A413100562A635056C8CC0

So let us start at Item 5 - employees.  He has only one listed, himself.  This seems a bit at odds with his claim on linkedin that "Atlantic Financial is a full service investment and wealth management company founded in 1994 and was the first full service investment firm on the Internet."

Now lets go to 5.D.  5.D.1. shows his client allocation by % of clients.  But then in 5.D.2 it shows "approximate amount of your regulatory assets under management (reported in Item 5.F. below) attributable to each of the following type of client."  Bruce checks "None" for every single category.

Now on 5.G, type of services he provides, he checked the box for "financial planning services" and "portfolio management."  So maybe the reason for the "none" above is that his business is more about "financial planning services" than "portfolio management."  But, it appears no, as 5.H says he provided planning services to 0 clients in the past year.

Note that his linkedin says he:  "- personally placed or sourced over $5 billion in investments during career" and "- created and managed $500 million in-house investment services group for 100 year old law firm.”

Now let’s look at Item 6, "Other Business Activities."  He lists none.  But his linkedin page notes that he is also a managing director of Boston Gulf Advisors.  Incidentally, the facebook page for Boston Gulf Advisors is here:  https://www.facebook.com/BostonGulfAdvisorsGroup/  It lists the company website as http://bostongulfconsulting.com/  When I click that link, I get "Error establishing a database connection."

There is more we could do here, but lets take a detour.  Go back to the main page and look on the left for "Brochures."  Click ADV Form 2B.  Scroll down to "Education."  Yes, he lists a BA from Bentley University, as with linkedin.  But unlike on linkedin, here he lists a graduation date of 2006, well after his first financial job as a VP at Morgan Stanley in 1992.  So not on outright misstatement, but a little obfuscation.  And, if he had been in the investment banking group at Morgan Stanley, there is no way he would get hired without a college degree and make VP in two years.  But the investment advisor group could be different.

Next, look at "Business Background."  His Atlantic Financial experience here begins 9/2011, versus linkedin where his experience for that firm is: "December 1994 – Present (21 years 2 months)".

He also doesn't list Morgan Stanley, Boston Gulf, or any other experience from his linkedin page.  But he does list "03/1998 – 09/2011 Registered Representative Cantella & Co. Inc."

Now, my first reaction was that this was a pretty huge lie, but on digging around more on Cantella and Bruce Fenton and from what I know of the financial advisor / broker dealer space, it seems like it is possible that while technically being a registered rep at Cantella, he could still market himself as Atlantic Financial.  For example, see this link:  http://209.132.84.78/investing/fidelity-advisor-worst-days-followed-by-gains.pdf

Although looking at his Finra history, Cantella is expressly listed as his employer:  http://brokercheck.finra.org/Report/Download/40521359 (if direct link does not work, enter 2286983 in the spot where it asks for name or CRD number.)  And, again to try and be balanced, it also shows he was previously registered at Dean Witter Reynolds around the same time as his Linkedin profile claims he was a VP at Morgan Stanley.  Dean Witter was a retail brokerage that merged with Morgan Stanley, a more prestigious and international full service investment bank.  But that merger occurred well after Bruce was there, in 1997.  So more puffery in trying to use what I view as a more prestigious name.  Also, it is still odd the dates don’t match exactly, and that he is listed as having been registered with two other firms that appear nowhere on his linkedin bio.

This is why I say there is definitely some puffery in his bio.  In my mind, there is a big difference in being a financial advisor “representative” affiliated with various firms over the years, going from being a young VP at Morgan Stanley to founding a global “full service investment and wealth management company founded in 1994 [that] was the first full service investment firm on the Internet.”

It also raises the question of why he left Cantella relationship.  And it now appears that the reason for the form ADV listing zero amounts is that he must have left that relationship, to finally create his own advisory firm that needed to be individually registered.  Those amounts may be zero because he was unable to bring clients over, or was not able to until he got registered.
 
Interstingly, that same Finra link lists several "Disclosure Events", all of which seem to be in the category of: "Financial".  If you go to the full report, they appear to involve 3 instances of renegotiating debt with credit card companies.  In the most recent, he managed to settle an amount due of $35,000 to Citibank for $6,100 in June of 2011.  Interestingly, that is around the time he left Cantella (September 2011.) 

Note that in his Reddit election AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2qqsnh/hi_reddit_rbitcoin_im_bruce_fenton_running_for/cn8s80f) he noted:  "the only disclosable event on my FINRA U4 license is that I renegotiated about $20k in credit card debt in around 2006 I believe -- I actually dont think this was required to be disclosed as a material financial event but my compliance officer at the time encouraged me to do so to be sure."  And the other two events that were listed on the Finra form were both in 2010.  So he was off on the amount, the date, and the number of disclosures.
 
So the Reddit comment is an outright lie, and it does make you wonder why a successful money manager needed to renegotiate credit card debt in the two years before he left his employer of more than 12 years.
 
And to give him credit, that same report mentions in "Other Business Activities" his involvement with FDVT, advising private industry and governments on various things, and that he is a consultant for Bain Capital for activities related to the Middle East, where he is compensated on a flat fee basis.  But we still have no proof that he "placed or sourced" $5 billion of investments over his career.
 
So that is the current summary.  I’ve tried to be neutral, and am open to any response from Bruce or others on this booard.  But I have to also say that at a minimum, the puffery and misstatements in his background, as well as his combative attitude on this board, don’t make me that optimistic that the Bitcoin Foundation is in much better hands.

[Fatman3001]

Hi Bruce,

I've read through this thread and appreciate the time you've spent trying to answer various questions in a civil manner. Overall I'm having difficulty recognizing why anyone would want to contribute to TBF. It seems that wall street has decided to join R3 and in order for TBF to survive, you need participation of large institutions. What is being done to court these participants? Is this something that has been considered?

You mentioned that their are certain debts the foundation is currently obligated to repay which are not necessarily included in the approximate remaining coffers of ~$330k. Do you have a ball park of what those costs are and/or what a monthly break down looks like? It seems like you've done the unpleasant task of streamlining the foundation to be able to survive in this current environment but the stark reality is that such actions could still be insufficient. It's clear that the price drop from $800 was disastrous. To that extent, have bitcoins been converted to USD or are they continuing to be held in electronic format. Do you have hedges in place to protect the remaining assets?

My understanding of the current TBF goals, as enumerated in your mission statement, are:

1) Fostering Core Development
2) Furthering education & adoption
3) Working to limit harmful regulations and encourage technical rather than regulatory solutions

You mention that "The foundation Chief Scientist is Gavin Andresen." I'm assuming that this is no longer a salary position and he is compensated via MIT? Is that a correct understanding. Assuming that is the case, one of the biggest current divisive factors in bitcoin is the block size debate. Do the values and interests of TBF align with 'Bitcoin Core' given the fact that your chief scientist is Gavin Andersen? I applaud the goal of helping encourage technical consensus but have difficulty seeing how this will happen.  It seems like lines have been drawn in the sand and you are either with or against certain interests. How can bitcoin succeed without destroying itself? Is Devcore something that should even be continued in light of the other various conferences and their success or lackof?

Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses. It's tough to be a bitcoiner right now especially looking at Nasdaq's usage of private blockchain's to conduct private asset sales. What happened to bitcoin.

(Edit: Necessary edit to include unfounded slurs and allegations about liars and thieves and how bitcoin is ponzi, Is psost o.k now spelng errers tooo?)

Well there really isn't any money left.  When I came aboard there was less than $70k and still plenty of outstanding obligations on the books.

Yes, that mission is the main priority.

Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation.

We've tried to remain neutral on the block size debate in an effort to represent all members -- for example I worked very hard to get Greg Maxwell to speak at DevCore so that there would be a mix of opinions on blocksize.

I think DevCore is a great conference.

I don't think the part of tomothy's question in bold is answered properly.

So, part of your mission is "Fostering Core Development", but you won't outright support Core on their approach for the block size debate? How can this be?

Do you plan to support the other teams like XT or BU then?

And "Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation"... what does that mean? Is he no longer chief scientist?

To put it another way: If someone supports The Bitcoin Foundation in any way, what are they supporting?


Best Regards


Oh, and thanks to tomothy for bringing something meaningful into this.

[Fatman3001]

To put it in a very different way:

Warning: TROLL POST

This is to all you GTA 3 fans out there!!!

Lazlow: "Let's go over here to line 4, hello caller, what's your name?"
Jeff: "Jeff from Rockford."
Lazlow: "Hello Jeff, what's up?"
Jeff: "I want to tell you and your listeners about a once-in-a-lifetime
      chance to make a difference. There's a rally tomorrow evening at
      the park. Starting at 7. Although we'll be painting banners and
      singing songs and all day to prepare for it. Then, when tens-of-
      thousands have gathered in the park, we're gonna march onto Town
      Hall. Lazlow, the people have spoken! And they have said 'no, not
      in my town!' So folks, if you're listening, and want to make a
      difference, get yourself down to the park, and prepare to bring
      democracy back to the people."
Lazlow: "So...what's this rally about, Jeff?"
Jeff: "It's about people standing up and being counted. It's about the
      future. It's about telling those morons in the suits 'no thanks!
      Not in my town! Not while I have a breath in my body and hope in
      my soul! I will not, I cannot let this pass!'"
Lazlow: "Let what pass?"
Jeff: "It's about grabbing the town by the balls and saying 'listen son,
      either put-up, or shut up! No more Mr. Nice-guy. No more easy
      solutions for difficult problems!' It's about what it means to be
      an American. It's about giving something back."
Lazlow: "Giving what back, Jeff?"
Jeff: "Hope! Dreams! Belief!"
Lazlow: "Belief in what, I mean, look Jeff, I..I admire your passion,
        really I do, but...what will people be marching for? Wh..what's
        your rally about!?"
Jeff: "It's about justice, Mr. Low! A chance to shine and make a   
      difference! About thousands of people walking side-by-side as
      brother marchers. Only one thing on their minds - the chance to
      make a difference! Bring your friends! Nothing shows a man how
      much you mean to him more than the chance to walk together for
      justice! Bring your kids! They can paint signs, and we'll even
      have a face-painter, and a vegen bar-be-que. Bring your parents,
      dude, even the elderly care about tomorrow!"
Lazlow: "I understand that, it sounds like a great rally, but w..we're
        not a political station and you haven't really told us why
        people should do this...what is it about?!?"
Jeff: "Look..look, do you wanna help or not??"
Lazlow: "I don't know what I'm helping!"
Jeff: "You're helping America! What kind of patriot are you? It's a
      rally!!"
Lazlow: "You don't know what it's for, do you!?!"
Jeff: "It's for hope. Please come, everybody! It'll be real good!"
Lazlow: "Alright, you fight the power, brother!"

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Gavin Andresen, Wladimir van der Laan, and Cory Fields all joined the MIT media lab in April. I just assume that's who pays them?

https://medium.com/mit-media-lab-digital-currency-initiative/welcome-to-the-mit-media-lab-gavin-wlad-and-cory-977ae418c084#.k43lwgi8h

[BruceFenton]

Your LinkenIn profile says this:

Managing Director, Chief Investment Officer
Atlantic Financial Inc.
December 1994 – Present (21 years 2 months)

Are you still Managing Director?

Yes

[Gyrsur]

Your LinkenIn profile says this:

Managing Director, Chief Investment Officer
Atlantic Financial Inc.
December 1994 – Present (21 years 2 months)

Are you still Managing Director?

Yes

https://youtu.be/YbzNJr26H-4

 

[BruceFenton]

I admit that I’ve always been a little skeptical of Bruce Fenton's work history claims.  Different firms with limited web presence and no specific deals listed anywhere.  Poorly crafted main website that also doesn't list any employees or specific deals done:  http://www.atlanticfinancial.com/

>>>>TRUE - haven't updated the website in ages because the focus isn't relevant, haven't accepted retail clients for years.

So I did a little more digging, it does seem at a minimum that there is some puffery in his bio and some misstatements in some comments he made as part of his running for Director of the Foundation.  I’ll go through my research in the order it occurred, as some of the conclusions evolved through the process, and am trying to be neutral.  Also, I note that all the info linked is either information Bruce has published, or is publically available info by virtue of his business activities.

First, take a look at his linkedin page:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/brucefenton  Give it a read, looks pretty impressive.

>>>>> Everything on this LinkedIn is accurate, there is absolutely nothing inconsistent or inaccurate

And then go to this link which shows the form ADV for his current firm, Atlantic Financial.  On the left, there is link for "view all in PDF."  http://www.adviserinfo.sec.gov/iapd/content/viewform/adv/Sections/iapd_AdvRegulatorStatusSection.aspx?ORG_PK=159167&RGLTR_PK=50030&STATE_CD=MA&FLNG_PK=00AFF2940008017C01A413100562A635056C8CC0

So let us start at Item 5 - employees.  He has only one listed, himself.  This seems a bit at odds with his claim on linkedin that "Atlantic Financial is a full service investment and wealth management company founded in 1994 and was the first full service investment firm on the Internet."

>>>>> How is this at odds?   We use independent contractors.

Now lets go to 5.D.  5.D.1. shows his client allocation by % of clients.  But then in 5.D.2 it shows "approximate amount of your regulatory assets under management (reported in Item 5.F. below) attributable to each of the following type of client."  Bruce checks "None" for every single category.

>>>>> Yes, that's correct we don't use the RIA to manage assets,

Now on 5.G, type of services he provides, he checked the box for "financial planning services" and "portfolio management."  So maybe the reason for the "none" above is that his business is more about "financial planning services" than "portfolio management."  But, it appears no, as 5.H says he provided planning services to 0 clients in the past year.

>>>> My work for the last six years or more has been big picture deal focused and economic advisory work which does not fall under the services of a registered investment advisor.  My main clients during this time were a $60-70 billion private equity firm and a $60 billion private foundation.  When you work at that level the assets are not counted under your assets under management -- it would be inaccurate to count the full assets -- also the work is typically done on a flat fee, retainer or contract based on time, not assets under management like smaller client relationships typically are

Note that his linkedin says he:  "- personally placed or sourced over $5 billion in investments during career" and "- created and managed $500 million in-house investment services group for 100 year old law firm.”

>>>>> Yes, this is correct, the majority was mutual funds, followed by equites, I also raised money for private equity deals - the law firm is Bowditch and Dewey who I created and a managed the investment advisory practice for for about 7 years, this contracted ended some years back and they still have the investment group


Now let’s look at Item 6, "Other Business Activities."  He lists none.  But his linkedin page notes that he is also a managing director of Boston Gulf Advisors.  Incidentally, the facebook page for Boston Gulf Advisors is here:  https://www.facebook.com/BostonGulfAdvisorsGroup/  It lists the company website as http://bostongulfconsulting.com/  When I click that link, I get "Error establishing a database connection."

>>>>> Boston Gulf Advisors Group is not an outside business activity, it is simply a trade name of AF Asset Management which was made at the request of the foundation client because my Saudi Arabia economic advisory work overlapped with my investment client work (speaking to the same sets of people on behalf of two different clients) and it was easier to segregate the two with a DBA / trade name as the foundation did not want to be confused with private equity

There is more we could do here, but lets take a detour.  Go back to the main page and look on the left for "Brochures."  Click ADV Form 2B.  Scroll down to "Education."  Yes, he lists a BA from Bentley University, as with linkedin.  But unlike on linkedin, here he lists a graduation date of 2006, well after his first financial job as a VP at Morgan Stanley in 1992.  So not on outright misstatement, but a little obfuscation.  And, if he had been in the investment banking group at Morgan Stanley, there is no way he would get hired without a college degree and make VP in two years.  But the investment advisor group could be different.

>>>>> Absolutely not a misstatement in any way -- after high school I joined the Navy, I started work in the investment business prior to having a college degree - later in life I attended Bentley as an adult evening undergrad and received a degree in 2006, I don't usually include the Bentley grad date because people often assume that you were standard college grad age at that time and I would not want someone to glacé quickly and inaccurately assume I had only 8-9 years professional experience

Next, look at "Business Background."  His Atlantic Financial experience here begins 9/2011, versus linkedin where his experience for that firm is: "December 1994 – Present (21 years 2 months)".

>>>>>>  This is completely consistent and both are accurate.  This accusation off base comes from not understanding the investment business and how it works.   I founded Atlantic Financial in December 1994 and this has been my company all this time.   That's been my business card, email and letter head and my legal employer on my tax return.  As an independent firm, owned by me, I engaged various companies over the years to serve as my back office and hold my licenses.   Like many thousands and thousands of firms, I did not serve as my own broker dealer or clearing firm I hired someone else to do this and placed my license with them.  This is standard for most independent firms.   I was not an employee of Cantella and did not work in their offices, but they did hold my license.  During all of this time I had an Atlantic Financial business card and that name on my door.

He also doesn't list Morgan Stanley, Boston Gulf, or any other experience from his linkedin page.  But he does list "03/1998 – 09/2011 Registered Representative Cantella & Co. Inc."

>>>>> Again, this is because you don't understand how FINRA registrations work, that's fine, no one other than FINRA members and lawyers do understand this, what's not fine is making an accusation based on so,etching that you don't know much about...especially without simply asking me first  -  Hwre is how it works:  the FINRA Broker Check you looked up is taken from your U4 form - the U4 form has a very different format and purpose than a LinkedIn page -- the U4 primarily focuses on your actual broker dealer licensing and registrations and does not ask or care about the names or corporate status of Offices of Supervisory Jurisdiction (OSJs) or the incorporated / business name of the entities of a registered person -- in 2011 we stopped using outside back officer providers and became an RIA only with no broker dealer affiliation so at that time there was no other group holding my license.>>>>>>

Now, my first reaction was that this was a pretty huge lie, but on digging around more on Cantella and Bruce Fenton and from what I know of the financial advisor / broker dealer space, it seems like it is possible that while technically being a registered rep at Cantella, he could still market himself as Atlantic Financial.  For example, see this link:  http://209.132.84.78/investing/fidelity-advisor-worst-days-followed-by-gains.pdf

>>>>>>  No, not a lie in any way at all, not remotely, indirectly in any way at all.  It is an extraordinarily common practice used by thousands of firms and tens of thousands of representatives.  It is completely in compliance and FINRA regulations have several rules recognizing and governing Offices of Supervisory Jurisdiction.  Unfortunate that your first reaction was that I was lying rather than you asking me or doing more research, you've now thrown my name out with accusations which are unfounded


Although looking at his Finra history, Cantella is expressly listed as his employer:  http://brokercheck.finra.org/Report/Download/40521359 (if direct link does not work, enter 2286983 in the spot where it asks for name or CRD number.)  And, again to try and be balanced, it also shows he was previously registered at Dean Witter Reynolds around the same time as his Linkedin profile claims he was a VP at Morgan Stanley.  Dean Witter was a retail brokerage that merged with Morgan Stanley, a more prestigious and international full service investment bank.  But that merger occurred well after Bruce was there, in 1997.  So more puffery in trying to use what I view as a more prestigious name.  Also, it is still odd the dates don’t match exactly, and that he is listed as having been registered with two other firms that appear nowhere on his linkedin bio.

>>>>>> Dean Witter doesn't exist anymore, all my employment records and old licensing are at Morgan Stanley - all of the people I worked with are at Morgan Stanley and anyone wanting to check my records or verify anything would have to call Morgan Stanley.  The other firms don't appear because they were only back office service providers.  Who you are registered with for U4 / FINRA purposes is different than who you are actually employed by.  The exception is a large wirehouse like UBS or Morgan Stanley where the one holding your license and your employer are the same company.

This is why I say there is definitely some puffery in his bio.  In my mind, there is a big difference in being a financial advisor “representative” affiliated with various firms over the years, going from being a young VP at Morgan Stanley to founding a global “full service investment and wealth management company founded in 1994 [that] was the first full service investment firm on the Internet.”

>>>>> Atlantic Financial is the first full service investment firm on the Internet and is global -- this isn't puffery

It also raises the question of why he left Cantella relationship.  And it now appears that the reason for the form ADV listing zero amounts is that he must have left that relationship, to finally create his own advisory firm that needed to be individually registered.  Those amounts may be zero because he was unable to bring clients over, or was not able to until he got registered.
 
>>>>>> No, again you are speculating with, unfortunately, no knowledge whatsoever -- I really wish you would have asked me before publicly accusing me of dishonesty, all of your items are easily explained.   I left Cantella because my practice was changing with more large clients and big picture economic advisor work, I no longer needed the FINRA broker dealer status or back office as that type of activity was less than 5% of overal revenue at the time yet comes with it a great deal of hassle -- also, as I was beginning to spend about 50% of my time outside the US it did not make sense to be an OSJ of an American broker dealer>>>>

Interstingly, that same Finra link lists several "Disclosure Events", all of which seem to be in the category of: "Financial".  If you go to the full report, they appear to involve 3 instances of renegotiating debt with credit card companies.  In the most recent, he managed to settle an amount due of $35,000 to Citibank for $6,100 in June of 2011.  Interestingly, that is around the time he left Cantella (September 2011.) 

>>>>>>> Yes, as I've explained in the other thread which dug up this info.   These are my only disclosures in 20 years.  Zero customer complaints, zero regulatory actions, no lawsuits, babkruptcies, fines, sanctions, disciplinary actions or issues with anyone supervised by me.  It is considered a spotless record from a compliance standpoint.  As for the credit cards, we had an employee have access to credit in my name, credit card debt was accumulated and the bills were sent to an apartment / office I had in NYC.  The employee left and the office was closed.  I didn't even know about the debt until some time later, collections called me and I explained the situation, they knocked off the penalties and let me pay only what I originally owed them.   As I said on Reddit, I don't even think this qualifies as a financial disclosure but my compliance officer at the time wanted it listed anyway.  It does not count as a black mark on the U4.  Essentially Negotiating to have penalties removed is the worst thing my record covers in 20 years.


Note that in his Reddit election AMA (https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2qqsnh/hi_reddit_rbitcoin_im_bruce_fenton_running_for/cn8s80f) he noted:  "the only disclosable event on my FINRA U4 license is that I renegotiated about $20k in credit card debt in around 2006 I believe -- I actually dont think this was required to be disclosed as a material financial event but my compliance officer at the time encouraged me to do so to be sure."  And the other two events that were listed on the Finra form were both in 2010.  So he was off on the amount, the date, and the number of disclosures.

>>>>>> Yes,  I did not go back and check the amount, just as I'm not checking it based on your post now, it was minor either way.  I'll take your word for it, whatever the amount you say is listed.
 
So the Reddit comment is an outright lie, and it does make you wonder why a successful money manager needed to renegotiate credit card debt in the two years before he left his employer of more than 12 years.

>>>>> Not a lie at all - it's a super minor amount from a long time ago I really don't remember much more and have never thought about it other than these two times it's been brought up on chat boards.  I have good credit, I own my home, I pay my bills, I've never been sued or bankrupt etc.
 
And to give him credit, that same report mentions in "Other Business Activities" his involvement with FDVT, advising private industry and governments on various things, and that he is a consultant for XXXX XXXXXXX [removed by Bruce]  for activities related to the Middle East, where he is compensated on a flat fee basis.  But we still have no proof that he "placed or sourced" $5 billion of investments over his career.

>>>>> Okay, so, since my client name is already Doxxed on this shit show of non-logical and incorrect accusations --- doesn't this make a bit of sense?   Are you familiar with that company?  Doesn't this pretty much explain all your theories?
 
So that is the current summary.  I’ve tried to be neutral, and am open to any response from Bruce or others on this booard.  But I have to also say that at a minimum, the puffery and misstatements in his background, as well as his combative attitude on this board, don’t make me that optimistic that the Bitcoin Foundation is in much better hands.

>>>>>> My attitude towards this board is partly based on a tendency to accuse without full data.  I hope you consider offering an apology.  It is extremely serious to attack someone's credibility and accuse them of lying.  Everything on my LinkedIn is completely accurate, differences with the U4 data from FINRA are completely normal and, in fact, it would not be accurate for someone to claim they worked for a broker dealer when they did not but had an OSJ registered with them.  After my explanations, the only possible complaints you could still have are about a minor debt settlement (to be clear this isn't a lawsuit, bankruptcy or anything along those lines, simply negotiating a lower payment) and the use of the name of the post merger Morgan Stanley instead of pre-merger Dean Witter.  I'm really not trying to bolster my resume for something from 20 years ago, I used the post merger name because I think it makes sense and this is who has my records at this time.

What a lot of time you spent on this.

Most of your comments are easily and logically explained or are premises based on not having a full understanding of how the investment business works.

Answers included above.

[BruceFenton]

Gavin Andresen, Wladimir van der Laan, and Cory Fields all joined the MIT media lab in April. I just assume that's who pays them?

https://medium.com/mit-media-lab-digital-currency-initiative/welcome-to-the-mit-media-lab-gavin-wlad-and-cory-977ae418c084#.k43lwgi8h

Yes, as far as I know

[BruceFenton]

I don't think the part of tomothy's question in bold is answered properly.

So, part of your mission is "Fostering Core Development", but you won't outright support Core on their approach for the block size debate? How can this be?

Do you plan to support the other teams like XT or BU then?

And "Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation"... what does that mean? Is he no longer chief scientist?

To put it another way: If someone supports The Bitcoin Foundation in any way, what are they supporting?


Best Regards


Oh, and thanks to tomothy for bringing something meaningful into this.

This is a draft mission statement,  the specific reason it is listed as a draft and out for comment is to answer questions like this.

My thought is that, since we have members like Gavin, Garzik, Peter Todd and companies from various sides of the discussion that working to be neutral and improve communication and consensus is valuable.   If you think the foundation should take a solid stand on the blocksize debate, then that is very worthy of discussion.  It's up to the members to convey this to the board and the board to determine how they best represent those members.

Yes, Gavin is still Chief Scientist, he is not paid, he is a volunteer just like all other roles (save two part time admin roles)

[Fatman3001]

I don't think the part of tomothy's question in bold is answered properly.

So, part of your mission is "Fostering Core Development", but you won't outright support Core on their approach for the block size debate? How can this be?

Do you plan to support the other teams like XT or BU then?

And "Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation"... what does that mean? Is he no longer chief scientist?

To put it another way: If someone supports The Bitcoin Foundation in any way, what are they supporting?


Best Regards


Oh, and thanks to tomothy for bringing something meaningful into this.

This is a draft mission statement,  the specific reason it is listed as a draft and out for comment is to answer questions like this.

My thought is that, since we have members like Gavin, Garzik, Peter Todd and companies from various sides of the discussion that working to be neutral and improve communication and consensus is valuable.   If you think the foundation should take a solid stand on the blocksize debate, then that is very worthy of discussion.  It's up to the members to convey this to the board and the board to determine how they best represent those members.

Yes, Gavin is still Chief Scientist, he is not paid, he is a volunteer just like all other roles (save two part time admin roles)

Thanks for the clarification. I don't really see a point in the foundation bossing about in tech questions, but the block size debate has created a schism of sorts. I guess what I'm really curious about is if you are solely committed to supporting the Core devs or if you'll consider supporting efforts or talented individuals from teams working on other implementations in the future? Is your neutral line to be read as an affirmative to supporting other implementations or do you see TBF bound to Core in a way that makes this unlikely? Is this up for debate as well?

Best Regards

[bArAPIc74b]

Bruce,

I'll do some follow up piece by piece, but I still see lots of inconsistencies and puffery.

First, big picture, I think it is at best puffery to claim that you are a "global full service" investment advisory firm if you are the only employee, outsource your broker dealer function, and outsource pretty much everything else.  I do know investment advisors, and I know you can make good money in that approach, but it's just a stretch to say you are global (you are only registered in MA) and "full service" in that situation.  (And you complain that I have no understanding how it might work in the industry, despite the fact I expressly acknowledge that it might be like a franchisee situation, but still said it was a stretch to say you were "global and full service").

Here is an analogy.  There are very successful franchisees.  I know someone who has a bunch of Five Guys franchises.  He makes good money.  He owns his own business.  I'd call him an entrepreneur.  But if his linked in profile or resume made no mention of the franchise relationship, and said he was the founder of a global full service vertically integrated food services business, I'd tell him he was full of shit.  If he ran for an elected position based on that  (you did run for director, I'm not talking about the board appointing you as an executive), I'd say it was misleading.

Note that his linkedin says he:  "- personally placed or sourced over $5 billion in investments during career" and "- created and managed $500 million in-house investment services group for 100 year old law firm.”

>>>>> Yes, this is correct, the majority was mutual funds, followed by equites, I also raised money for private equity deals

Ok, now that makes a little more sense.  But you are stretching the definition of "personally placed or sourced over $5 billion."  I am in finance, and that implies that you are generating deals and deal-flow, not that in the "vast majority" of cases you recommending mutual funds and equities as a financial advisor - or perhaps this even includes 401k type plans you were involved in?  Would you not agree that for financial advisors the more relevant metric is AUM (assets under management), not the total notional amount of trades?

And, again to try and be balanced, it also shows he was previously registered at Dean Witter Reynolds around the same time as his Linkedin profile claims he was a VP at Morgan Stanley.  Dean Witter was a retail brokerage that merged with Morgan Stanley, a more prestigious and international full service investment bank.  But that merger occurred well after Bruce was there, in 1997.  So more puffery in trying to use what I view as a more prestigious name.  Also, it is still odd the dates don’t match exactly, and that he is listed as having been registered with two other firms that appear nowhere on his linkedin bio.

>>>>>> Dean Witter doesn't exist anymore, all my employment records and old licensing are at Morgan Stanley - all of the people I worked with are at Morgan Stanley and anyone wanting to check my records or verify anything would have to call Morgan Stanley.  The other firms don't appear because they were only back office service providers.  Who you are registered with for U4 / FINRA purposes is different than who you are actually employed by.  The exception is a large wirehouse like UBS or Morgan Stanley where the one holding your license and your employer are the same company.

So a "transparent person" would say that they worked for Dean Witter and add a parenthetical (acquired by Morgan Stanley 1997).  Morgan Stanley is clearly a more prestigious background, especially for someone who is trying to make themselves look more like a deal guy, then a broker.  (Have you read Liar's Poker, remember the insult of being stuck with "equities in Dallas?" 

Or how about this, Google bought Motorola Mobility.  Do you think it is appropriate for an employee of Motorola, long before Motorola was acquired by Google, to list himself as having worked for Google?  And I guess Lenovo then bought Motorola Mobility from Google.  So if that guy is applying for a hardware position, maybe he should say he worked for Lenovo?  Again, more BS.

Pause for now.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

[BruceFenton]

Bruce,

I'll do some follow up piece by piece, but I still see lots of inconsistencies and puffery.

First, big picture, I think it is at best puffery to claim that you are a "global full service" investment advisory firm if you are the only employee, outsource your broker dealer function, and outsource pretty much everything else.  I do know investment advisors, and I know you can make good money in that approach, but it's just a stretch to say you are global (you are only registered in MA) and "full service" in that situation. 

>>>>> Again you are incorrect, I am not "only registered in MA" - when I was with FINRA I was registered in all 50 states, RIA registration only goes by the state you are in.  The firm can serve customers in many states.

 (And you complain that I have no understanding how it might work in the industry, despite the fact I expressly acknowledge that it might be like a franchisee situation, but still said it was a stretch to say you were "global and full service").

>>>>>>. No, it is not a franchise or anything at all similar.  In the last 6-7 years I've spent roughly 50% of my time living and working outside of the US, in 2014 I had over 100 flights with 60 international -- the work we do is global, not sure how you can define it as local, I do almost no business locally


Here is an analogy.  There are very successful franchisees.  I know someone who has a bunch of Five Guys franchises.  He makes good money.  He owns his own business.  I'd call him an entrepreneur.  But if his linked in profile or resume made no mention of the franchise relationship, and said he was the founder of a global full service vertically integrated food services business, I'd tell him he was full of shit.  If he ran for an elected position based on that  (you did run for director, I'm not talking about the board appointing you as an executive), I'd say it was misleading.

>>>>>>. The analogy is not accurate.  In that example the person would be misleading.   Atlantic Financial is not a franchise or subsidiary of any other company and it has never been.  I founded it and built it over time.  There is no parent company as with Five Guys, my company is the parent.

Note that his linkedin says he:  "- personally placed or sourced over $5 billion in investments during career" and "- created and managed $500 million in-house investment services group for 100 year old law firm.”

>>>>> Yes, this is correct, the majority was mutual funds, followed by equites, I also raised money for private equity deals

Ok, now that makes a little more sense.  But you are stretching the definition of "personally placed or sourced over $5 billion."  I am in finance, and that implies that you are generating deals and deal-flow, not that in the "vast majority" of cases you recommending mutual funds and equities as a financial advisor - or perhaps this even includes 401k type plans you were involved in?  Would you not agree that for financial advisors the more relevant metric is AUM (assets under management), not the total notional amount of trades?

>>>>> I define "placed / transactions" by a pretty standard definition: a ticket I actually placed the order for or an investment or deal I sourced and saw through to completion -- I was part of a team that did a $2 billion loan facility and a billion in private placements....those are not counted, only (in the case of equities and funds) orders for clients that I started and actually placed the trade and for private placements I only count deals I originated and saw through to execution.  Sure AUM is more standard.   How exactly would I do that?   The three main clients I've served and who've accounted for 90% of our revenue have about $180 billion combined.   What would be a more fair way to measure that?   Surely it would not be reasonable to say I manage $180 billion AUM right?   I do not have total control over those assets and they are not my AUM.   So I say zero.  When I did manage assets my AUM was around $500 million.   For the types of things the company has done in recent years it's based on a fee basis, no one with $50 billion pays a 1% fee like a Grannie with her IRA account at Merril Lynch.   I sold several billion dollars worth of investments.  That is the best and most accurate metric I can use to reflect this.

And, again to try and be balanced, it also shows he was previously registered at Dean Witter Reynolds around the same time as his Linkedin profile claims he was a VP at Morgan Stanley.  Dean Witter was a retail brokerage that merged with Morgan Stanley, a more prestigious and international full service investment bank.  But that merger occurred well after Bruce was there, in 1997.  So more puffery in trying to use what I view as a more prestigious name.  Also, it is still odd the dates don’t match exactly, and that he is listed as having been registered with two other firms that appear nowhere on his linkedin bio.

>>>>>> Dean Witter doesn't exist anymore, all my employment records and old licensing are at Morgan Stanley - all of the people I worked with are at Morgan Stanley and anyone wanting to check my records or verify anything would have to call Morgan Stanley.  The other firms don't appear because they were only back office service providers.  Who you are registered with for U4 / FINRA purposes is different than who you are actually employed by.  The exception is a large wirehouse like UBS or Morgan Stanley where the one holding your license and your employer are the same company.

So a "transparent person" would say that they worked for Dean Witter and add a parenthetical (acquired by Morgan Stanley 1997).  Morgan Stanley is clearly a more prestigious background, especially for someone who is trying to make themselves look more like a deal guy, then a broker.  (Have you read Liar's Poker, remember the insult of being stuck with "equities in Dallas?" 

>>>>> Sure, I can add a parenthetical.  I'm a 43 year old who has served some of the wealthiest clients in the world and (yes, it's true) done billions of dollars in transactions with them.  Are you under some impression that I am using this two line employment record now to gain or horse trade or that I'm highlighting this as some significant event?   It's a very minor line on my LinkedIn which I put because it's a good way to check with former colleagues, that's where my records are and there is no alumni network for a firm that no longer exists.  Happy to add the parenthetical.   

So does this really come down to why you felt the need to disparage my name, call me a liar and set off an entirely separate post dedicated to calling me a liar?   Because I used the new name rather than the old name from 20 years ago?


Or how about this, Google bought Motorola Mobility.  Do you think it is appropriate for an employee of Motorola, long before Motorola was acquired by Google, to list himself as having worked for Google?  And I guess Lenovo then bought Motorola Mobility from Google.  So if that guy is applying for a hardware position, maybe he should say he worked for Lenovo?  Again, more BS.

>>>>>> A couple differences: if you look at the details of the stock, it was not so much a merger, Dean Witter really acquired Morgan Stanley, my CEO, Phil Parcel was CEO of the new company, Morgan Stanley Dean Witter - the job I had was exactly the same - after the merger it was basically a name change - my old office remained etc. and I think I would hate referred to myself as formerly with Morgan Stanley Dean Witter in those days -- they then dropped the Dean Witter name.

So the better analogy would be something like a name change - I think it's common for people to use the newer name.   I really don't care as I get no mileage whatsoever from 20 years ago - people care about the last 10 years.

I can't believe I'm arguing this.  Is this the standard you work to attack someone's name?  I did work there and did do the job.


Pause for now.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The magic of "research".

Haha!!!   Awesome!

I see your "evidence" now.   

1) Brock knew the movie director Bryan Singer.
>>>>>"Knew" him? You mean like they were passing acquaintances? Two ships in the night? Are you playing dumb on purpose?

2). The movie director was wrongfully accused by a serial accuser name Michael Egan who had made a number of false accusations
>>>>>>>>>Researchings: Eventually, a number of these acolytes would file lawsuits alleging they were raped and/or sexually abused at M&C by the three cofounders. Their charges are remarkably consistent—all claim they were bullied and drugged to coerce sexual compliance, and in some cases, threatened with loaded guns. When the plaintiffs filed civil suits against Collins-Rector, Shackley, and Pierce, the three suddenly disappeared with what remained of their fortune—turning up two years later living in a villa in Spain.

3).  The Singer case was dropped because the accuser was caught in numerous lies, including a direct conflict of the location of Singer who was in a different state than the time the accuser said he was
>>>>>>>>>This is only one of the plaintiffs.

4).  The case was so bad that the judge actually took the unusual act scolded the accuser for lying (!) http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/judge-scolds-hollywood-sex-accuser-742505
>>>>>>>>>Cherry-picking this again?

5).  Therefor.....Brock Pierce is a child molester, despite never having been accused, tried or convicted of such a crime,
>>>>>>>>>>You came here, I believe, to get feedback; well he's a sinister character and we don't like him and we don't want him representing our interests (whatever the hell they may be.) And the fact that you do makes me personally sort of quesy.
....seems legit

[bArAPIc74b]

I'm going to stick with my "Pause for now", as it is late, and I am buzzed, and I think it is reasonable to leave more time for the bitcointalk folks to come to the conclusion that Bruce is actually digging his grave deeper and deeper.

But as BlindMayorBitcorn has acknowledged this is an intermission, I will propose some intermission amusement that refers back to earlier discussions in this thread relating to Bruce's endorsement of Brock Pierce as a stand-up guy facing unjust accusations.

Here is a link to the Brock Pierce produced DEN short "Chad's World" pilot that apparently cost $12m.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhWh4MsRWcM

I highly recommend skimming through it, it is truly one of the most disturbing TV shows I have ever seen.

Since it will be difficult to watch in its entirety, here is some synopsis that will guide you in skipping through it.

Chad's World starred a 14-year-old actor named Brian Stark as Chad, and Seann William Scott—who shortly thereafter won a starring role in American Pie—as Jim, a California entrepreneur based on Collins-Rector. While the film's production quality was more in line with down-market porn than network programming, the producers doled out a mind-boggling $12 million in salaries for the series.

"Chad's World was the first signal that maybe things weren't right [with the company]," says Winter. "It was definitely, um, ahead of its time."

It felt like a "gay pedophile version of Silver Spoons," adds another industry observer who saw the pilot and five unaired episodes. "I first thought it was some sick fantasy of theirs," he adds. "When I found out about the molestation charges, I realized that it was more a case of art imitating life."

http://jezebel.com/inside-the-hollywood-sex-ring-mansion-from-the-bryan-si-1567755415

Seriously, it is worth a watch as one of the worst pieces of film ever produced.

[Gleb Gamow]

The magic of "research".

Haha!!!   Awesome!

I see your "evidence" now.   

1) Brock knew the movie director Bryan Singer.
>>>>>"Knew" him? You mean like they were passing acquaintances? Two ships in the night? Are you playing dumb on purpose?

2). The movie director was wrongfully accused by a serial accuser name Michael Egan who had made a number of false accusations
>>>>>>>>>Researchings: Eventually, a number of these acolytes would file lawsuits alleging they were raped and/or sexually abused at M&C by the three cofounders. Their charges are remarkably consistent—all claim they were bullied and drugged to coerce sexual compliance, and in some cases, threatened with loaded guns. When the plaintiffs filed civil suits against Collins-Rector, Shackley, and Pierce, the three suddenly disappeared with what remained of their fortune—turning up two years later living in a villa in Spain.

3).  The Singer case was dropped because the accuser was caught in numerous lies, including a direct conflict of the location of Singer who was in a different state than the time the accuser said he was
>>>>>>>>>This is only one of the plaintiffs.

4).  The case was so bad that the judge actually took the unusual act scolded the accuser for lying (!) http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/judge-scolds-hollywood-sex-accuser-742505
>>>>>>>>>Cherry-picking this again?

5).  Therefor.....Brock Pierce is a child molester, despite never having been accused, tried or convicted of such a crime,
>>>>>>>>>>You came here, I believe, to get feedback; well he's a sinister character and we don't like him and we don't want him representing our interests (whatever the hell they may be.) And the fact that you do makes me personally sort of quesy.
....seems legit

For the record, I'm with Bruce Fenton in accusing all those women of being raped by Bill Cosby of outright lying based on evidence that women have been known to conspire things. (I'm growing fond of this accusation format thingy)

[peonminer]

LOL They blew that money fast!

[Cconvert2G36]

U guise!



I get that Brock is kinda icky, I agree, but Bruce has taken some pretty serious shit slinging here. Not altogether warranted, I think.

The foundation may be a dead end, I know I won't be sending funds over, but the main people to blame seem to have left the building or are not here to bear the brunt of your wrath.

[Gleb Gamow]

I locked my other thread on the subject and will be penning a formal apology to Bruce, with hoping to speak with him on the phone tomorrow.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

U guise!



I get that Brock is kinda icky, I agree, but Bruce has taken some pretty serious shit slinging here. Not altogether warranted, I think.

The foundation may be a dead end, I know I won't be sending funds over, but the main people to blame seem to have left the building or are not here to bear the brunt of your wrath.

I just wanted to pet the soft rabbit, George.

[franky1]

can we reign in this topic back on subject..

i would really like to know how "local producer" spent over $700k
i (not much research) believe they are an event organiser. but wonder why it cost so much to just put a deposit down on a venue..
where they could have separately and later profit from ticket proceeds. instead of asking for so much upfront

[J. J. Phillips]

I locked my other thread on the subject and will be penning a formal apology to Bruce, with hoping to speak with him on the phone tomorrow.

Quote from the locked thread:

Gleb, this is really terribly sad.

You've now gone back to a 1998 ListServe mailing list about the writing of Shakespeare in an attempt to tarnish my name?

Yes, the first post is me.  Please read carefully and see that the second post not me but was a reply by another person.  Correct, I do not have ties to Canada and did not even have any kids until a decade after this post.   Think also: you know my age from your research.  I was 26 years old in 1998.  Do you think I'd have a daughter living on her own that I'd go visit?

Once again you have accused me of dishonesty and once again your claim has been proven false.


Please, I don't know what kind of person you are, but I have some hope that you are honorable.   Give it a a rest, appologize if you see fit.   Call me and we can speak by phone or perhaps together we can work to catch an actual bad apple.  You do nothing for yourself, this board or Bitcoin by continuing to increasingly grasp at demons that are not there.

I'm going to do my best to walk away from this now.

Bruce, I tried to warn you. Bruno has a history of knowingly making false accusations. You're lucky you haven't been accused of child rape yet. He still can, and it won't be surprising in the least if he does.

Don't talk to Bruno, on the phone or otherwise. It's a mistake to give this lunatic any of what he desires most: attention.

But if you must, please record the conversation and post it. I vaguely remember that Bruno made some accusations against a hardware mining company and then travelled to see them. While he was there they gave him a "free" miner in exchange for making a video in their office saying how wrong he was about the mining company and what good people they were. It was hilarious to watch that lying lunatic lowlife grovel. I wish I'd saved that video. It was funnier than the pictures of him at a Bitcoin conference in a tutu giving a mumbling disjointed interview to letstalkbitcoin.

Someday it might look very bad that the Bitcoin community continued to entertain this delusional attention-seeking fuckface for so long.

[franky1]

I vaguely remember that Bruno made some accusations against a hardware mining company and then travelled to see them. While he was there they gave him a "free" miner in exchange for making a video in their office saying how wrong he was about the mining company and what good people they were. It was hilarious to watch that lying lunatic lowlife grovel.

but...

look what happened to butterfly labs...... so he wasnt that far off

[J. J. Phillips]

I vaguely remember that Bruno made some accusations against a hardware mining company and then travelled to see them. While he was there they gave him a "free" miner in exchange for making a video in their office saying how wrong he was about the mining company and what good people they were. It was hilarious to watch that lying lunatic lowlife grovel.

but...

look what happened to butterfly labs...... so he wasnt that far off

It's not surprising that occasionally Bruno says something that's true. He never shuts the fuck up, so he's bound to say something true every once in a while. Broken clock theory.

I can't imagine anyone seriously denying Bruno is mentally ill. Well, Bruno sort of denies it, but he also says he fucks baby goats or something. He's not exactly a credible witness.

My main point is that it's way, way past time for Bitcoiners to slowly walk away from this sad old man who accomplished nothing with his life but desparately wants to be seen as someone important.

[franky1]

It's not surprising that occasionally Bruno says something that's true. He never shuts the fuck up, so he's bound to say something true every once in a while. Broken clock theory.

I can't imagine anyone seriously denying Bruno is mentally ill. Well, Bruno sort of denies it, but he also says he fucks baby goats or something. He's not exactly a credible witness.

My main point is that it's way, way past time for Bitcoiners to slowly walk away from this sad old man who accomplished nothing with his life but desparately wants to be seen as someone important.

id say he is eccentric and veers off topic, but i seen worse.
i think thats the issues of an open forum that we have to accept, (differing personalities) and then try reigning topics back on subject if they veer completely in the wrong direction and have no sign of anything moving forward by continuing on the offtopic tangeant..

so lets orphan off this offtopic fork and get back to the main chain discussion about the bitcoin foundation funds and what way things should move forward

[BruceFenton]

Seriously, it is worth a watch as one of the worst pieces of film ever produced.

I'm not Brock's defender, I don't really have time to watch a tv program from a long time ago to judge if it was low production quality, creepy etc.  For context, I thought he was 17-19 years old or something at this time.

My only comment was that it seemed that the earlier allegations against him were not backed up by any legal conviction, investigation or trial...it doesn't seem there was one.  It also seems that some accusations were made not against him but against a colleague / friend Bryan Singer.  From the press it seems those accusations against Singer were false.

If anyone has actual criminal records, guilty convictions or trial records about him related to this accusation and brings them forward then I would not support him.   I think if such a thing existed it would have been found.   He has a lot of Bitcoin companies who've worked with him and presumably have researched him beforehand.

I'm going to try not to discuss accusations about Brock or actions of others I had nothing to do with.

[BruceFenton]

can we reign in this topic back on subject..

i would really like to know how "local producer" spent over $700k
i (not much research) believe they are an event organiser. but wonder why it cost so much to just put a deposit down on a venue..
where they could have separately and later profit from ticket proceeds. instead of asking for so much upfront

Back on topic is great.

Not to sound like a broken record but I have no idea.  I didn't have anything to do with that expenditure.  I was not involved in any way at that time.

By the way, it's even worse : In addition to the 700k there was another $100k + to a consultant related to it.   It looks like, in total, they spent in the neighborhood of a million dollars on that conference.

For perspective, I spent about $8000 on the Dubai Bitcoin Conference, which, although smaller was a 5 star type of thing.   Certainly they could have done a good conference for a lot less.

I think that's maybe one reason I got a bit of flak here:  people want someone to be angry at and get answers / justification from.   On that count I can't help because I'm just as disgusted by the bad spending as anyone else.

[BruceFenton]

I gladly accept Bruno's apology.

Everyone gets hot under the collar and in a discussion with emotion around it and bad characters involved.

It's natural to want to assume the worst about someone.  He went down a path of attack but then had the wisdom and logic to step back objectively and see that there was not as much to attack as he might have thought.

[knightkon]

It seems to me that there is a lot of arguing going on and there is nothing getting done.  I agree that a proper Audit needs to be placed in order to completely learn from the mistakes of the past.  You can not just let the past be the past without making some of the same mistakes without properly understanding what went wrong before and why.  Once that is done, all of the arguing and all needs to come to a halt and move forward.  If this can not be done, the only other thing to do would be to disband the foundation and make a replacement.

[BruceFenton]

 
Do the values and interests of TBF align with 'Bitcoin Core' given the fact that your chief scientist is Gavin Andersen? I applaud the goal of helping encourage technical consensus but have difficulty seeing how this will happen.  It seems like lines have been drawn in the sand and you are either with or against certain interests. How can bitcoin

I don't think the part of tomothy's question in bold is answered properly.

So, part of your mission is "Fostering Core Development", but you won't outright support Core on their approach for the block size debate? How can this be?

Do you plan to support the other teams like XT or BU then?

And "Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation"... what does that mean? Is he no longer chief scientist?

To put it another way: If someone supports The Bitcoin Foundation in any way, what are they supporting?


Best Regards


Oh, and thanks to tomothy for bringing something meaningful into this.

Was sidetracked, let me try to answer this better.

I think it would be ideal if the Bitcoin Foundation was neutral.  Gavin is Chief Scientist but as a volunteer organization anyone qualified can take a role.  If a Greg Maxwell, Jeff Garzik, Nick Szabo or Adam Back caliber of person wanted to volunteer then the foundation would be glad to give them a high profile role as well.   We've talked about a Chair of the Development Communications committee in the mission statement.

For DevCore I worked hard to make sure it was balanced and not only the Gavin POV...in fact he was a minority opinion from a blocksize debate standpoint: Maxwell and Corallo were also speakers.

This blocksize discussion is going to be resolved.  Ideally non-profits in this space can plan for after this as well.

[BruceFenton]

It seems to me that there is a lot of arguing going on and there is nothing getting done.  I agree that a proper Audit needs to be placed in order to completely learn from the mistakes of the past.  You can not just let the past be the past without making some of the same mistakes without properly understanding what went wrong before and why.  Once that is done, all of the arguing and all needs to come to a halt and move forward.  If this can not be done, the only other thing to do would be to disband the foundation and make a replacement.

I agree that an audit might give some closure.
The main purposes of an audit are to 1) find out what happened, or 2) gain info that informs a change in personnel or policies.

I think we pretty much know what happened:  lots of money was wasted and lots of money is gone due to the Bitcoin price drop.
The people are gone and the procedures already changed.  So I'm not sure what new info an audit might give.  But if someone wants to do one I'll support it.

[tomothy]

I don't think the part of tomothy's question in bold is answered properly.

So, part of your mission is "Fostering Core Development", but you won't outright support Core on their approach for the block size debate? How can this be?

Do you plan to support the other teams like XT or BU then?

And "Gavin no longer receives a salary from the Bitcoin Foundation"... what does that mean? Is he no longer chief scientist?

To put it another way: If someone supports The Bitcoin Foundation in any way, what are they supporting?


Best Regards


Oh, and thanks to tomothy for bringing something meaningful into this.

This is a draft mission statement,  the specific reason it is listed as a draft and out for comment is to answer questions like this.

My thought is that, since we have members like Gavin, Garzik, Peter Todd and companies from various sides of the discussion that working to be neutral and improve communication and consensus is valuable.   If you think the foundation should take a solid stand on the blocksize debate, then that is very worthy of discussion.  It's up to the members to convey this to the board and the board to determine how they best represent those members.

Yes, Gavin is still Chief Scientist, he is not paid, he is a volunteer just like all other roles (save two part time admin roles)

Thanks for the clarification. I don't really see a point in the foundation bossing about in tech questions, but the block size debate has created a schism of sorts. I guess what I'm really curious about is if you are solely committed to supporting the Core devs or if you'll consider supporting efforts or talented individuals from teams working on other implementations in the future? Is your neutral line to be read as an affirmative to supporting other implementations or do you see TBF bound to Core in a way that makes this unlikely? Is this up for debate as well?

Best Regards

I guess, depending on the vision of TBF, does it make sense to have negative members with given goals of undermining BTC, i.e., Gavin Vs. Todd, etc etc.? Who's negative? Well, it depends on your view of bitcoin. Assuming TBF seeks to provide a neutral avenue seeking to facilitate communication and transparency concerning Bitcoin, how will this be done? My understanding is some of the current arguments surrounding blocksize argue that doing nothing, or, inaction, constitutes a position. What about RBF/LN? Good, bad, indifferent? So besides helping host/produce Devcore, what role is TBF playing to seek a middle ground? If it is not doing anything, is that in the best interest of Bitcoin? Is it better to stay silent than participate? Will community letters be drafted outlining the various conflicting party interests in whatever ongoing issue/debate exists at the time and to provide a layman's understanding of outstanding issues?

It seems evident that this blocksize debate is not the first divisive issue that bitcoin will face in the near or distant future. I think it was critically helpful for one of the community members to poll various mining entities concerning their position about the blocksize, but this took place without any participation from TBF and was done in an unofficial capacity. I recognize TBF is significantly underfunded, but polls and statistics  can help provide an overview of the landscape. I guess the next question, naturally leads itself to, whether TBF can maintain a position of neutrality without damaging the system it tries to Shepard. I recognize that these are tough issues and are exacerbated by insufficient funding and there is no simple answer that will please everyone. However, Bitcoin has been recognized as a threat to current industry standards and their are well funded strategic initiatives set to mitigate bitcoin to the past and they are gaining momentum while bitcoin stagnates.

Ultimately I think TBF faces a liquidity/funding crisis like many entities in the bitcoin space due to the usd/btc price decline which can only be addressed by TBF drawing a line in the sand concerning an overall bitcoin use case. I.E., if you are courting Wall Street you will have different supporters than if you are supporting more of a crypto/libertarian viewpoint. I think bitcoin faces a tipping point where you can no longer please every party. TBF had been viewed as a sane and guiding hand navigating the murky bitcoin waters and that voice has fallen silent. When TBF speaks again, who will it's target audience be. I think ultimately, the interests of miners, users, and exchanges, should dictate the course of Bitcoin and developers help facilitate whatever goal that should be.  At the same time, the interests of these participants do not always align and opinions are influenced based on their geographic location.

I realize I've gone on a tangent but hopefully provided enough solid information to continue a healthy dialogue. I think it is critically important to know who TBF represents, and who the intended target of 'their voice/message' is intended for (and please don't say the bitcoin community or the users, that's a cop'out.)

(another edit, p.s. I concur with Bruce that the audit seems superfluous and a waste of resources. It's clearly evident that TBF is broke. It's more important to understand what the plan is moving forward I think it could be more beneficial to see an updated/current business plan and mtd/ytd balance/income statements to show donations/cash flow. I mean honestly, is this a Gox issue where people send a few donations and a day later TBF disbands? It sounds like based on current liabilities, sustainability is clearly a pressing issue. Additionally, I recognize that various members purchased lifetime memberships, but, an update on which of those entities continues to provide donations to TBF could also be beneficial to show and explore hidden motivations. I apologize if this information already exists, there's a lot to digest in BTC space.)

[BruceFenton]

I guess, depending on the vision of TBF, does it make sense to have negative members with given goals of undermining BTC, i.e., Gavin Vs. Todd, etc etc.? Who's negative? Well, it depends on your view of bitcoin. Assuming TBF seeks to provide a neutral avenue seeking to facilitate communication and transparency concerning Bitcoin, how will this be done? My understanding is some of the current arguments surrounding blocksize argue that doing nothing, or, inaction, constitutes a position. What about RBF/LN? Good, bad, indifferent? So besides helping host/produce Devcore, what role is TBF playing to seek a middle ground? If it is not doing anything, is that in the best interest of Bitcoin? Is it better to stay silent than participate? Will community letters be drafted outlining the various conflicting party interests in whatever ongoing issue/debate exists at the time and to provide a layman's understanding of outstanding issues?

It seems evident that this blocksize debate is not the first divisive issue that bitcoin will face in the near or distant future. I think it was critically helpful for one of the community members to poll various mining entities concerning their position about the blocksize, but this took place without any participation from TBF and was done in an unofficial capacity. I recognize TBF is significantly underfunded, but polls and statistics  can help provide an overview of the landscape. I guess the next question, naturally leads itself to, whether TBF can maintain a position of neutrality without damaging the system it tries to Shepard. I recognize that these are tough issues and are exacerbated by insufficient funding and there is no simple answer that will please everyone. However, Bitcoin has been recognized as a threat to current industry standards and their are well funded strategic initiatives set to mitigate bitcoin to the past and they are gaining momentum while bitcoin stagnates.

Ultimately I think TBF faces a liquidity/funding crisis like many entities in the bitcoin space due to the usd/btc price decline which can only be addressed by TBF drawing a line in the sand concerning an overall bitcoin use case. I.E., if you are courting Wall Street you will have different supporters than if you are supporting more of a crypto/libertarian viewpoint. I think bitcoin faces a tipping point where you can no longer please every party. TBF had been viewed as a sane and guiding hand navigating the murky bitcoin waters and that voice has fallen silent. When TBF speaks again, who will it's target audience be. I think ultimately, the interests of miners, users, and exchanges, should dictate the course of Bitcoin and developers help facilitate whatever goal that should be.  At the same time, the interests of these participants do not always align and opinions are influenced based on their geographic location.

I realize I've gone on a tangent but hopefully provided enough solid information to continue a healthy dialogue. I think it is critically important to know who TBF represents, and who the intended target of 'their voice/message' is intended for (and please don't say the bitcoin community or the users, that's a cop'out.)

(another edit, p.s. I concur with Bruce that the audit seems superfluous and a waste of resources. It's clearly evident that TBF is broke. It's more important to understand what the plan is moving forward I think it could be more beneficial to see an updated/current business plan and mtd/ytd balance/income statements to show donations/cash flow. I mean honestly, is this a Gox issue where people send a few donations and a day later TBF disbands? It sounds like based on current liabilities, sustainability is clearly a pressing issue. Additionally, I recognize that various members purchased lifetime memberships, but, an update on which of those entities continues to provide donations to TBF could also be beneficial to show and explore hidden motivations. I apologize if this information already exists, there's a lot to digest in BTC space.)

Thanks.  It would be great to look at ideas on how to do this.  BTW I don't think either Peter or Gavin have a goal of undermining Bitcoin.  I think they both, and the other major voices, want to help Bitcoin but just disagree on the best way forward.

[franky1]

I think we pretty much know what happened:  lots of money was wasted and lots of money is gone due to the Bitcoin price drop.
The people are gone and the procedures already changed.  So I'm not sure what new info an audit might give.  But if someone wants to do one I'll support it.

im sorry but if TBF plan that prices in april '13 to sepember '13 were ~$120 .. then in october, november. december TBF would be spending LESS bitcoin as the price went up. meaning they got to keep more bitcoin.
and if things were bought using any dollar bank accounts.. there would be no impact. EG a conference in july being $8000. or in november, is still $8000

and so even in january 2014 bitcoin was still higher than previous year so any bitcoin spending would be less than the previous year.

its my thought that its not the 'bitcoin drop' thats to blame but more so that funds were probably stored in Gox.. and just vanished into kerpeles brain wallet. as it make no logical sense that a drop in bitcoin price would cost more bitcoins compared to the bitcoin saving during the price rise and ultimately high average bitcoin price compared to previous year..

[BruceFenton]

im sorry but if TBF plan that prices in april '13 to sepember '13 were ~$120 .. then in october, november. december TBF would be spending LESS bitcoin as the price went up. meaning they got to keep more bitcoin.
and if things were bought using any dollar bank accounts.. there would be no impact. EG a conference in july being $8000. or in november, is still $8000

and so even in january 2014 bitcoin was still higher than previous year so any bitcoin spending would be less than the previous year.

its my thought that its not the 'bitcoin drop' thats to blame but more so that funds were probably stored in Gox.. and just vanished into kerpeles brain wallet. as it make no logical sense that a drop in bitcoin price would cost more bitcoins compared to the bitcoin saving during the price rise and ultimately high average bitcoin price compared to previous year..

What makes you think they had a budget based on 2013?

From the data in the original post it seems that they just spent like crazy and Bitcoin went down.

This 2014 tax return accounts for a loss from $4.6 million to $330k --- that's pretty bad.   I don't think they had any Gox coins or they would have lost even more.

We can easily track around $4.3 million in losses for 2014 by simply looking at spending and Bitcoin price decline.   

[franky1]

What makes you think they had a budget based on 2013?

From the data in the original post it seems that they just spent like crazy and Bitcoin went down.

This 2014 tax return accounts for a loss from $4.6 million to $330k --- that's pretty bad.   I don't think they had any Gox coins or they would have lost even more.

We can easily track around $4.3 million in losses for 2014 by simply looking at spending and Bitcoin price decline.  

well if everyone had to pay a renewel fee in december.. then yeah its worth less in january's price dump.. but if people paid in april-september '13 then TBF would be better off in February..

EG
annual membership= $25
so april '13 =0.21btc
even into september '13=0.21btc

now lets say, in december if TBF needed to buy something for $25 they just needed 0.025btc (keeping 0.185btc)
or if they didnt spend in december but spent in february'14 they would only need to cash out 0.1btc or less dependent on that day.. (keeping 0.11btc)

[bhodson]

Something fishy going on with the members. 

Have there been any dishonest members on the board?

[BruceFenton]

well if everyone had to pay a renewel fee in december.. then yeah its worth less in january's price dump.. but if people paid in april-september '13 then TBF would be better off in February..

EG
annual membership= $25
so april '13 =0.21btc
even into september '13=0.21btc

now lets say, in december if TBF needed to buy something for $25 they just needed 0.025btc (keeping 0.185btc)
or if they didnt spend in december but spent in february'14 they would only need to cash out 0.1btc or less dependent on that day.. (keeping 0.11btc)

The way the return reads is that they had $4.6 million at the beginning of the year 2014 and they had $350k or so at the end of the year.

4-5 months later when I volunteered, that $350k had dwindled to $70k with outstanding obligations.

I think those numbers are pretty bad.

The $4.3 million drop includes both the spending and the price drop for the whole year.  I'm sure for some months Bitcoin was a bit higher or lower - but overall, by year end they had total value of $4.3 million less than they started with, definitely a lot less cash and a lot less coins.

[Spoetnik]

Sad.. sooo sad.
800k for a Bitcoin meeting ? (a circle jerk meeting fro Crypto nerds)

These fuckers blew through the cash and should be fired simple.

Reminds me of a story i heard in my town about an announcement by City Counsel
they announced spending on a project was stalled because of the conversion of CAN to USD
it was cheaper for them to wait until the US dollar goes up etc.
The same concept can and should be applied in the Crypto world with financing.
Irresponsibly throwing money around like an idiot is dumb.

If these guys were held accountable and had to be re-elected they woudl not be brought back.

We need max terms for the Foundation and a slashing of earnings big time.
No reason these pricks need to drive a Ferrari to work.

[BruceFenton]

C'mon now, there is no one on the board who has been convicted of stealing, fraud, money laundering or anything similar.

Also, no one on the board has made a penny or accepted a penny from the foundation....not even travel reimbursement (other than Jim Harper who recently resigned).  Executive Director is also a volunteer spot and only reimbursed for out of pocket costs.

The bad spending decisions were made by people no longer there.

[BruceFenton]

Sad.. sooo sad.
800k for a Bitcoin meeting ? (a circle jerk meeting fro Crypto nerds)

These fuckers blew through the cash and should be fired simple.

Trying to make it clear:  the people who made these spending decisions are no longer there.

[Bitcoinpro]

C'mon now, there is no one on the board who has been convicted of stealing, fraud, money laundering or anything similar.

Also, no one on the board has made a penny or accepted a penny from the foundation....not even travel reimbursement (other than Jim Harper who recently resigned).  Executive Director is also a volunteer spot and only reimbursed for out of pocket costs.

The bad spending decisions were made by people no longer there.

Liar liar pants on fire,

The Emporer (or shall we say D** S***) has lost his clothes and dances around like a crazy retard just released

from a mental institution!

[rizzlarolla]

Topic: Bitcoin Foundation: Where on Earth Did all the Money Go?

BF "I do remain skeptical of the value of an audit."

On a personal level thats fine,
But as BF chair, or whatever, I would like to see your default position as - wanting an audit for transparency-
Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

BF "2) ridiculously wasteful and reckless spending"

This is not too far from saying misappropriation and fraud/theft.
(which I am not saying is the case)
But dont you NEED to know. I kind of do.
Would ex board members fund this audit possibly? (It would save a lot of speculation/mudslinging)

BF "I have not been presented any evidence of any theft, criminal act or similar wrongdoing but would be *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%* for anyone with information and evidence of any such act leading to recovery of any funds which were misappropriated or stolen."

And your are unlikely to be presented with *evidence* without an audit?
How about instead of *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%*, put it (?) into the audit fund to get it started?


I wont go on about Brock Pierce either, except to say there are other allegations against him also.
($200k and stock stolen. KNC miner debacle. other?)

Not sure what is on topic here now!

Edit. BF being Bruce fenton, not bitcoin foundation. didn't spot that!

[rizzlarolla]

Wow... 17 pages of rehashing up old topics and trolling! It does bring up some interesting ethical dilemmas like how does one determine Age of Consent. Fun Fact - The legal age of consent was 12 in The Vatican City up until 2013 where it changed to 14 for married women.....disgusting.

 Cody Wilson is interested to bring transparency to the Bitcoin Foundation and move this issue forward . Bruce, I sent you an IM.

 

Does that mean all except you and Bruce are trolling and rehashing?
Was that irony/sarcasm?

I am trying to be productive here.
Is that not coming across?

I haven't spammed Bruces' message box.


Edit, to save me spamming.   vvv (Response to below) vvv  Thank you BitUsher I understand. sorry, I was a bit snappy to you.

[Gleb Gamow]

I locked my other thread on the subject and will be penning a formal apology to Bruce, with hoping to speak with him on the phone tomorrow.

Quote from the locked thread:

Gleb, this is really terribly sad.

You've now gone back to a 1998 ListServe mailing list about the writing of Shakespeare in an attempt to tarnish my name?

Yes, the first post is me.  Please read carefully and see that the second post not me but was a reply by another person.  Correct, I do not have ties to Canada and did not even have any kids until a decade after this post.   Think also: you know my age from your research.  I was 26 years old in 1998.  Do you think I'd have a daughter living on her own that I'd go visit?

Once again you have accused me of dishonesty and once again your claim has been proven false.


Please, I don't know what kind of person you are, but I have some hope that you are honorable.   Give it a a rest, appologize if you see fit.   Call me and we can speak by phone or perhaps together we can work to catch an actual bad apple.  You do nothing for yourself, this board or Bitcoin by continuing to increasingly grasp at demons that are not there.

I'm going to do my best to walk away from this now.

Bruce, I tried to warn you. Bruno has a history of knowingly making false accusations. You're lucky you haven't been accused of child rape yet. He still can, and it won't be surprising in the least if he does.

Don't talk to Bruno, on the phone or otherwise. It's a mistake to give this lunatic any of what he desires most: attention.

But if you must, please record the conversation and post it. I vaguely remember that Bruno made some accusations against a hardware mining company and then travelled to see them. While he was there they gave him a "free" miner in exchange for making a video in their office saying how wrong he was about the mining company and what good people they were. It was hilarious to watch that lying lunatic lowlife grovel. I wish I'd saved that video. It was funnier than the pictures of him at a Bitcoin conference in a tutu giving a mumbling disjointed interview to letstalkbitcoin.

Someday it might look very bad that the Bitcoin community continued to entertain this delusional attention-seeking fuckface for so long.

I'm sure that my noble efforts have enriched you myriad ways while I've no doubt inadvertently stepped on your toes directly or indirectly while you - perhaps - involved yourself in some nefarious activity, hence the ONLY fuckin' reason you have the red-ass toward me.

If Joshua Zipkin removed the YouTube video mentioned, I have a couple that I'll be more than happy to upload. And, when I left Joshua's office after the filming of said video, upon getting into a hotel room I immediately denounced his lyin' piece of shit ass and continued to do so to this very day.

If you recall, Joshua Zipkin is on record on trying to get a contract on me to burn down my house with ALL the other occupants inside. The local police in PA tried for over a week to question Joshua at his Mason Lounge office, but to no available, calling me each day to keep me abreast. That's the mentally unstable individual and not I.

The unfortunate Patrick episode on my part (apology sent) stemmed from a Reddit post he penned pertaining to those (was directly mostly at me) asking hard question as being lunatics (paraphrased), whereupon I proceeded to verify his assessment of us by calling him a pedo et al. That episode escalated when I, among others, was pressing for proof of KnC actually paying a $100K membership fee to become a platinum member JUST prior to an infamous election, proof I may add has yet to be proved to this very day.

All that said, go fuck yourself before I slap the shit outta you with my eggnog enema bag.

[Gleb Gamow]

I vaguely remember that Bruno made some accusations against a hardware mining company and then travelled to see them. While he was there they gave him a "free" miner in exchange for making a video in their office saying how wrong he was about the mining company and what good people they were. It was hilarious to watch that lying lunatic lowlife grovel.

but...

look what happened to butterfly labs...... so he wasnt that far off

Yeah, and I guess the FBI has a habit of gleaning relevant information from mentally unstable individuals via hour-long phone conversations with their blockchain forensics dude picking the brain of said mental dude.

Translated: I'm in this space helping you dudes out as much as possible, with periodically fucking up due to being at bat more than my fair share of times, sometimes apologizing for my missteps of which Bruce Fenton is now due such, publicly and by phone unless, that is, he won't take my call because an anon dude posted me's psycho.

[Gleb Gamow]

I vaguely remember that Bruno made some accusations against a hardware mining company and then travelled to see them. While he was there they gave him a "free" miner in exchange for making a video in their office saying how wrong he was about the mining company and what good people they were. It was hilarious to watch that lying lunatic lowlife grovel.

but...

look what happened to butterfly labs...... so he wasnt that far off

It's not surprising that occasionally Bruno says something that's true. He never shuts the fuck up, so he's bound to say something true every once in a while. Broken clock theory.

I can't imagine anyone seriously denying Bruno is mentally ill. Well, Bruno sort of denies it, but he also says he fucks baby goats or something. He's not exactly a credible witness.

My main point is that it's way, way past time for Bitcoiners to slowly walk away from this sad old man who accomplished nothing with his life but desparately wants to be seen as someone important.

Note to self: Dox the living shit outta this dude.

Dude, I've been giving you the benefit of doubt till now. Obviously, you have a fuckin' issue with me that won't end, thus I WILL research as to why such is the case and publish my findings. Well played, asshole!

[Gleb Gamow]

Seriously, it is worth a watch as one of the worst pieces of film ever produced.

I'm not Brock's defender, I don't really have time to watch a tv program from a long time ago to judge if it was low production quality, creepy etc.  For context, I thought he was 17-19 years old or something at this time.

My only comment was that it seemed that the earlier allegations against him were not backed up by any legal conviction, investigation or trial...it doesn't seem there was one.  It also seems that some accusations were made not against him but against a colleague / friend Bryan Singer.  From the press it seems those accusations against Singer were false.

If anyone has actual criminal records, guilty convictions or trial records about him related to this accusation and brings them forward then I would not support him.   I think if such a thing existed it would have been found.   He has a lot of Bitcoin companies who've worked with him and presumably have researched him beforehand.

I'm going to try not to discuss accusations about Brock or actions of others I had nothing to do with.

I've spoken with Brock on the phone than met him in person, sorta coming around to his storyline. I'm sure he'll confirm that I'm not some sort of psycho as would others that have met me in person.

[Gleb Gamow]

I gladly accept Bruno's apology.

Everyone gets hot under the collar and in a discussion with emotion around it and bad characters involved.

It's natural to want to assume the worst about someone.  He went down a path of attack but then had the wisdom and logic to step back objectively and see that there was not as much to attack as he might have thought.

Dude, I've yet to pen the formally apology, but it's forthcoming, but thanks anyway, bud.

[Gleb Gamow]

For the record, I honestly believe that Bruce Fenton is trying to put TBF on a new track (not satire, i.e., Sonny Vleisides' infamous "new track").

Honest question, Bruce: How is TBF gonna pay ongoing and future legal fees outta its dwindled coffer?

One more question since it's been a thorn in my side for a long time: Any chance of showing the bitcoins transaction depicting KnC paying its $100K membership fee? Unless I misread, you stated (paraphrased) that you had no qualms with providing past proof of transactions.

Again, this is not satire, nor will post such any more in this thread of yours, only asking straightforward questions pertaining to TBF and NOT your character of which I consider exemplary.

[Spoetnik]

Wow... 17 pages of rehashing up old topics and trolling! It does bring up some interesting ethical dilemmas like how does one determine Age of Consent. Fun Fact - The legal age of consent was 12 in The Vatican City up until 2013 where it changed to 14 for married women.....disgusting.

 Cody Wilson is interested to bring transparency to the Bitcoin Foundation and move this issue forward . Bruce, I sent you an IM.

 

I guess the new craze is crying Troll when talking on a forum huh ?
Google search what forum means ?

Those guys got cash..

That fucking faggot got 800k ?
Sorry but that means EVERYONE should know about this and this should be bumped to page one 24/7 for life.
I almost puked when i heard that !
Like really ? Seriously ?

Old news ?
I just found out now.
I also just told another guy just now who looked at this topic and was shocked and disgusted also.

Hey can i have a million dollars too ?
fair warning though.. i will keep coming back and crying Troll every time someone mentions it though.

[Spoetnik]

Does that mean all except you and Bruce are trolling and rehashing?
Was that irony/sarcasm?

I am trying to be productive here.
Is that not coming across?

I haven't spammed Bruces' message box.

Notice my post above wasn't a reply to you.(this is , thus the quote) There is indeed plenty(mostly) trolling/rehashing in these 17 pages, obviously not all of it falls in those categories.

Oh really ?
Name every topic here like that..
I will wait as you count every topic on the whole fucking board.

I have said loooong ago many times this place is a vehicle to cry Troll & FUD for dollars.

All you have to do is pull some sleazy bullshit for money then cry Troll non stop.. and then KEEP DOING IT !
Another scheme and another million.. the Marshal (Cryptsy co-founder) business plan.
It's a classic.. and a great way to make money with out having to work for a living.
Why work when you can just hang out here pushing scammy crap 24/7 ?
Then if anyone calls you out on it.. just call them a Troll Fud'ing .."turd in the punch bowl" problem solved.

[RoadStress]

One more question since it's been a thorn in my side for a long time: Any chance of showing the bitcoins transaction depicting KnC paying its $100K membership fee? Unless I misread, you stated (paraphrased) that you had no qualms with providing past proof of transactions.

Now this is something that I would also like to see! +1

[Spoetnik]

Oh really ?
Name every topic here like that..
I will wait as you count every topic on the whole fucking board.

I have said loooong ago many times this place is a vehicle to cry Troll & FUD for dollars.

All you have to do is pull some sleazy bullshit for money then cry Troll non stop.. and then KEEP DOING IT !
Another scheme and another million.. the Marshal (Cryptsy co-founder) business plan.
It's a classic.. and a great way to make money with out having to work for a living.
Why work when you can just hang out here pushing scammy crap 24/7 ?
Then if anyone calls you out on it.. just call them a Troll Fud'ing .."turd in the punch bowl" problem solved.

Be aware that I am trying to assist getting all the accounting documents released and audited by Cody Wilson and his Team which will than hand over the information to you and the public.

No reason to get hysterical when there is no way I could be aware you have missed all these conversations. My central point is that we don't need to speculate about any possible corruption when we will soon have all the details to confirm yes or no on any allegations.

Puhhhlease.. you think i am Hysterical ? ROFL
Liek OMg I am Trollzingz an di can;t control my outRage I am using ANGRY FONT OMG !111111

gimme a break.  
I don't have emotions i am an ice cube.. cold and calculating 24.7 for life .
You see what i penned because i arranged it that way on purpose for a reason.
So spare my the hysterical girl routine.. that shit won't fly with me son..

If the foundation blew through MILLIONS of dollars for pretty much nothing then YES an audit is needed.
and the next more important step is making damn sure it doesn't happen again !
Who still works where is almost irrelevant.
Which is why this should be discussed.. just like that master-P fraud topic you guys here are pulling the same shit on.


Bullshit gets pulled and many of you go into over time trying to click report.
Crying Troll.
Crying FUD.
Locking topics.
Running around telling everyone to be quiet..

How is that angle playin' out for ya guys ?
Is it effective ?

EDIT:
Lemme guess next i will see the obligatory stop talking or else defamation threats ROFL

PS:
Gleb & Spoetnik are on your topic now     

[Bitcoinpro]

Oh really ?
Name every topic here like that..
I will wait as you count every topic on the whole fucking board.

I have said loooong ago many times this place is a vehicle to cry Troll & FUD for dollars.

All you have to do is pull some sleazy bullshit for money then cry Troll non stop.. and then KEEP DOING IT !
Another scheme and another million.. the Marshal (Cryptsy co-founder) business plan.
It's a classic.. and a great way to make money with out having to work for a living.
Why work when you can just hang out here pushing scammy crap 24/7 ?
Then if anyone calls you out on it.. just call them a Troll Fud'ing .."turd in the punch bowl" problem solved.

Be aware that I am trying to assist getting all the accounting documents released and audited by Cody Wilson and his Team which will than hand over the information to you and the public.

No reason to get hysterical when there is no way I could be aware you have missed all these conversations. My central point is that we don't need to speculate about any possible corruption when we will soon have all the details to confirm yes or no on any allegations.

Puhhhlease.. you think i am Hysterical ? ROFL
Liek OMg I am Trollzingz an di can;t control my outRage I am using ANGRY FONT OMG !111111

gimme a break.  
I don't have emotions i am an ice cube.. cold and calculating 24.7 for life .
You see what i penned because i arranged it that way on purpose for a reason.
So spare my the hysterical girl routine.. that shit won't fly with me son..

If the foundation blew through MILLIONS of dollars for pretty much nothing then YES an audit is needed.
and the next more important step is making damn sure it doesn't happen again !
Who still works where is almost irrelevant.
Which is why this should be discussed.. just like that master-P fraud topic you guys here are pulling the same shit on.


Bullshit gets pulled and many of you go into over time trying to click report.
Crying Troll.
Crying FUD.
Locking topics.
Running around telling everyone to be quiet..

How is that angle playin' out for ya guys ?
Is it effective ?

EDIT:
Lemme guess next i will see the obligatory stop talking or else defamation threats ROFL

very well said

[BruceFenton]

For the record, I honestly believe that Bruce Fenton is trying to put TBF on a new track (not satire, i.e., Sonny Vleisides' infamous "new track").

Honest question, Bruce: How is TBF gonna pay ongoing and future legal fees outta its dwindled coffer?

One more question since it's been a thorn in my side for a long time: Any chance of showing the bitcoins transaction depicting KnC paying its $100K membership fee? Unless I misread, you stated (paraphrased) that you had no qualms with providing past proof of transactions.

Again, this is not satire, nor will post such any more in this thread of yours, only asking straightforward questions pertaining to TBF and NOT your character of which I consider exemplary.

Thanks -- well hopefully legal fees would be minimal.  Bitcoin Foundation paid, way, way too much IMHO on service providers: legal, accounting etc.

There was a great deal from a couple law firms who provided pro-Bono services in exchange for membership.  Those are great deals I think and should be continued.

In principal, I'm happy to give any info on the KNC donation -- problem is that I wasn't given any of those records and don't have access or ability to see them.  I wish I did.   I wasn't involved when that donation was made.  If you have any info on where I might investigate it, please let me know.

[Gleb Gamow]

For the record, I honestly believe that Bruce Fenton is trying to put TBF on a new track (not satire, i.e., Sonny Vleisides' infamous "new track").

Honest question, Bruce: How is TBF gonna pay ongoing and future legal fees outta its dwindled coffer?

One more question since it's been a thorn in my side for a long time: Any chance of showing the bitcoins transaction depicting KnC paying its $100K membership fee? Unless I misread, you stated (paraphrased) that you had no qualms with providing past proof of transactions.

Again, this is not satire, nor will post such any more in this thread of yours, only asking straightforward questions pertaining to TBF and NOT your character of which I consider exemplary.

Thanks -- well hopefully legal fees would be minimal.  Bitcoin Foundation paid, way, way too much IMHO on service providers: legal, accounting etc.

There was a great deal from a couple law firms who provided pro-Bono services in exchange for membership.  Those are great deals I think and should be continued.

In principal, I'm happy to give any info on the KNC donation -- problem is that I wasn't given any of those records and don't have access or ability to see them.  I wish I did.   I wasn't involved when that donation was made.  If you have any info on where I might investigate it, please let me know.

It's part of the $355,723 USD figure on the tax form you prepared.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ldjk7/hello_rbitcoin_im_patrick_murck_executive/cltw3nv

Hi Bruno.

I double-checked and we sent KNC Miner an invoice via BitPay for $100,000 USD (Platinum Membership price), which they paid timely.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ldjk7/hello_rbitcoin_im_patrick_murck_executive/cltxn70

That is great! Now, show us the tx on the blockchain, since such is going to be disclosed anyway come tax time, you might as well show us said proof now to quell further discontent.

Page is no longer available: https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/04/30/kncminer-joins-bitcoin-foundation-at-platinum-level/

First instance of archive: http://web.archive.org/web/20140511082451/https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/04/30/kncminer-joins-bitcoin-foundation-at-platinum-level/

[BruceFenton]

So no one ever got back with the TX detail?

[franky1]

It's part of the $355,723 USD figure on the tax form you prepared.

i think the tax return was done by someone called Wendy Campos who worked for Moss Adams LLP

so i think she had access to all the data not bruce... and Bruce just signed off in it.
though i should hope bruce still had access to all the documentation, including access to bitpay to review invoices and payments.. or even knowing some of the bitcoin addresses used so he can trace the payment using a blockexplorer..

[Gleb Gamow]

It's part of the $355,723 USD figure on the tax form you prepared.

i think the tax return was done by someone called Wendy Campos who worked for Moss Adams LLP

so i think she had access to all the data not bruce... and Bruce just signed off in it.
though i should hope bruce still had access to all the documentation, including access to bitpay to review invoices and payments.. or even knowing some of the bitcoin addresses used so he can trace the payment using a blockexplorer..

<comment not meant as a dis or satire (as promised)> I'm sure Bruce, being versed in compliance and all pertaining to the importance of what to do and not do in the brokerage space, should have couples of documents he has signed off on. (with all due respect to Bruce)

[rizzlarolla]

Topic: Bitcoin Foundation: Where on Earth Did all the Money Go?

BF "I do remain skeptical of the value of an audit."

On a personal level thats fine,
But as BF chair, or whatever, I would like to see your default position as - wanting an audit for transparency-
Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

BF "2) ridiculously wasteful and reckless spending"

This is not too far from saying misappropriation and fraud/theft.
(which I am not saying is the case)
But dont you NEED to know. I kind of do.
Would ex board members fund this audit possibly? (It would save a lot of speculation/mudslinging)

BF "I have not been presented any evidence of any theft, criminal act or similar wrongdoing but would be *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%* for anyone with information and evidence of any such act leading to recovery of any funds which were misappropriated or stolen."

And your are unlikely to be presented with *evidence* without an audit?
How about instead of *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%*, put it (?) into the audit fund to get it started?


I wont go on about Brock Pierce either, except to say there are other allegations against him also.
($200k and stock stolen. KNC miner debacle. other?)

Not sure what is on topic here now!

Edit. BF being Bruce fenton, not bitcoin foundation. didn't spot that!

Bruce, did you miss this. Or was it ignored?
If you don't agree fine, just let me know.

To summarise,

I would strongly like an audit.
As known TBF is broke, so..

Bruce fenton changes stance to "would like to see audit for clarity, but TBF can't afford it."
Bruce fenton donates whatever he is happy too to an audit fund. (instead of a bounty fund)
Bruce Fenton reaches out to ex board members to also donate to the fund.
(and any present board members who are willing)
The audit is done independently, at no cost to TBF.

To say an audit will not help, i'm not sure that is correct.
It will help clarify for all concerned.

[BruceFenton]

Topic: Bitcoin Foundation: Where on Earth Did all the Money Go?

BF "I do remain skeptical of the value of an audit."

On a personal level thats fine,
But as BF chair, or whatever, I would like to see your default position as - wanting an audit for transparency-
Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

BF "2) ridiculously wasteful and reckless spending"

This is not too far from saying misappropriation and fraud/theft.
(which I am not saying is the case)
But dont you NEED to know. I kind of do.
Would ex board members fund this audit possibly? (It would save a lot of speculation/mudslinging)

BF "I have not been presented any evidence of any theft, criminal act or similar wrongdoing but would be *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%* for anyone with information and evidence of any such act leading to recovery of any funds which were misappropriated or stolen."

And your are unlikely to be presented with *evidence* without an audit?
How about instead of *happy to pay a bounty of at least 10%*, put it (?) into the audit fund to get it started?


I wont go on about Brock Pierce either, except to say there are other allegations against him also.
($200k and stock stolen. KNC miner debacle. other?)

Not sure what is on topic here now!

Edit. BF being Bruce fenton, not bitcoin foundation. didn't spot that!

Bruce, did you miss this. Or was it ignored?
If you don't agree fine, just let me know.

To summarise,

I would strongly like an audit.
As known TBF is broke, so..

Bruce fenton changes stance to "would like to see audit for clarity, but TBF can't afford it."
Bruce fenton donates whatever he is happy too to an audit fund. (instead of a bounty fund)
Bruce Fenton reaches out to ex board members to also donate to the fund.
(and any present board members who are willing)
The audit is done independently, at no cost to TBF.

To say an audit will not help, i'm not sure that is correct.
It will help clarify for all concerned.

Rizarola -- sorry for the delay - I had not seen this.

The basic purpose of an audit is to 1) find out what happened in some situation or to 2) gain information that is useful to develop new procedures (such as a security audit) to prevent a problem

In this case we already know what happened: a bunch of money was spend and Bitcoin value dropped - the money is gone and so are the people who made those decisions.   I don't think an audit would uncover new info.

However I won't stand in the way of anyone who wants to do one.  I personally would rather focus on things more directly beneficial to Bitcoin -- when someone asks what we did in 2016 - I would rather have it be a list of more positive things than "audit" as I don't think many people care that much about one.

I personally just donated $10,000 to the Bitcoin Foundation - as a donor I don't really want that money spent on actions that are past and that the current team isn't responsible for and that nothing can really be done about.   I'd rather see it spent on things that more directly move Bitcoin forward.

[BruceFenton]

Gleb-

I tracked down the info the foundation had for the KNC Miner membership you asked about.

From what I see there was a BitPay invoice paid on 4/23/14 for $100,000 or 205.9891 BTC

Looks like 6:12am.  Not sure what time zone that is

I don't have a corresponding blockchain TX because it was BitPay.

Does this do the trick?  What else can I look into?

[Pollak]

To me those guys are not any better then scammers.
They just waste money on stupid things for their office, in no way they are contributing to going bitcoin mainstream

[rizzlarolla]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Bruce.

1) find out what happened in some situation

This is what I am also promoting.
But, do we know what happened?

We know the money/BTC have gone,we know the ex board are gone.

We (edit - I) don't know why, officially, more legally, all has gone.
(do we know if there was criminal/misappropriation without an audit, I am not clear? makes a big difference , to me.)

Though you will not stand in the way of an audit, I suggested you more embrace an audit, (pending funding/others time) I take that as a no.

Can you/TBF not focus on Bitcoin/moving TBF forward in conjunction with an audit? I don't really see much crossover.
Edit. Indeed, Would an audit not give some "credibility" to carry on?

If you donated $10,000 to TBF it is wasted money, ATM, IMO. Without an audit. (unless we know no criminal or misappropriation took place without?)

Hope you appreciate it's just my (intended) friendly feedback here, I'm just banging my drum.
I personally wish you luck in your endeavours here.
But my wishes for TBF are different. They are conditional.

Thanks for you time.

[franky1]

Gleb-

I tracked down the info the foundation had for the KNC Miner membership you asked about.

From what I see there was a BitPay invoice paid on 4/23/14 for $100,000 or 205.9891 BTC

Looks like 6:12am.  Not sure what time zone that is

I don't have a corresponding blockchain TX because it was BitPay.

Does this do the trick?  What else can I look into?

bruce, before i go searching the blockchain on that date, is the bitcoin amount (205.9891) exact? or is it a calculation based on $100,000 you done after the fact based on an average conversion rate of the day

i just wanna be sure im looking for the right amount before taking the time searching

[BruceFenton]

Gleb-

I tracked down the info the foundation had for the KNC Miner membership you asked about.

From what I see there was a BitPay invoice paid on 4/23/14 for $100,000 or 205.9891 BTC

Looks like 6:12am.  Not sure what time zone that is

I don't have a corresponding blockchain TX because it was BitPay.

Does this do the trick?  What else can I look into?

bruce, before i go searching the blockchain on that date, is the bitcoin amount (205.9891) exact? or is it a calculation based on $100,000 you done after the fact based on an average conversion rate of the day

i just wanna be sure im looking for the right amount before taking the time searching

This is what the BitPay invoice and receipt said was rhe the exact amount on Bitcoin - the value varied by a penny or so on each side from the looks of it.

There should be a blockchain transaction that corresponds to this amount on this date.  If there is a tool that can sort by rx amount or something then it would be easier to find.

[knightkon]

I am seeing a lot going on here and I have to wonder why someone has not jumped out yet and said, lets get an outside agency to take care of the books for the company.  This would stop alot of the arguing.  I know in my company, there are a lot of the higher ups that do not understand what they are reading and they only add and subtract.  When you just add and subtract and do not pay attention as to the order you do such actions, you will always come up with a wrong answer.  

[BruceFenton]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Bruce.

1) find out what happened in some situation

This is what I am also promoting.
But, do we know what happened?

We know the money/BTC have gone,we know the ex board are gone.

We (edit - I) don't know why, officially, more legally, all has gone.
(do we know if there was criminal/misappropriation without an audit, I am not clear? makes a big difference , to me.)

Though you will not stand in the way of an audit, I suggested you more embrace an audit, (pending funding/others time) I take that as a no.

Can you/TBF not focus on Bitcoin/moving TBF forward in conjunction with an audit? I don't really see much crossover.
Edit. Indeed, Would an audit not give some "credibility" to carry on?

If you donated $10,000 to TBF it is wasted money, ATM, IMO. Without an audit. (unless we know no criminal or misappropriation took place without?)

Hope you appreciate it's just my (intended) friendly feedback here, I'm just banging my drum.
I personally wish you luck in your endeavours here.
But my wishes for TBF are different. They are conditional.

Thanks for you time.

Thanks Rizz --

I've looked through and really it seems that it's just a case of a combo of good decisions, terrible decisions and the Bitcoin drop.   The Bitcoin price drop alone accounts for a huge amount.

Remember also that there were internal and external accountants and bookkeepers --  if there was some sort of fraud it would have had to involve many people, including several who have licenses and practices which depend on having accurate books.

As for the donation - remember, this organization is no more mine than yours.  I know it had problems and sucked before.  I wish we could all just admit that and move on to the next chapter.  I wouldn't have donated to the Bitcoin Foundation for an audit before I joined and wouldn't want to see the money spent that way now.

I hope someone in the community can come forward and do an analysis and report to the public -- it would be great to put this to rest.  In the meantime all I can do is be as transparent as possible and work to do some good stuff for Bitcoin.

Thanks very much.

[BruceFenton]

I am seeing a lot going on here and I have to wonder why someone has not jumped out yet and said, lets get an outside agency to take care of the books for the company.  This would stop alot of the arguing.  I know in my company, there are a lot of the higher ups that do not understand what they are reading and they only add and subtract.  When you just add and subtract and do not pay attention as to the order you do such actions, you will always come up with a wrong answer.  

Thanks -- it's important to note that this return is from 2014 -- the situation is changed and the spending is very different now with a different set of people making decisions.

[Gleb Gamow]

Gleb-

I tracked down the info the foundation had for the KNC Miner membership you asked about.

From what I see there was a BitPay invoice paid on 4/23/14 for $100,000 or 205.9891 BTC

Looks like 6:12am.  Not sure what time zone that is

I don't have a corresponding blockchain TX because it was BitPay.

Does this do the trick?  What else can I look into?

bruce, before i go searching the blockchain on that date, is the bitcoin amount (205.9891) exact? or is it a calculation based on $100,000 you done after the fact based on an average conversion rate of the day

i just wanna be sure im looking for the right amount before taking the time searching

I'm digging too. Should be more than enough info to find the tx.

Note to self: Shoot yourself if found and caused yourself so much grief over nothing.

EDIT: Researching this one: https://blockchain.info/tx/65cefdefe5b7879c46df97b7b0f9b8d08064a6534ccfebfe600a61fea113ec41

Tracing the coins:

https://www.walletexplorer.com/address/13QeMNUgpe1qr9GnJMfMQ8Ng2ctFrmBy9j



https://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/03f2462bd7f983fae1f1bb0d731f304f52179b540a5ed2d46030e6ac9f149b11
https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/28559b67cd01cead
https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/b7bf12df4b1638c4
https://www.walletexplorer.com/wallet/60b3b3ae23184b48



Odd!

[BruceFenton]

I'm digging too. Should be more than enough info to find the tx.

My best guess is that the destination wallet is a Coinbase controlled one.

From what I've been told the membership fee came in, the coins were placed with the rest of the foundation coins for accounting purposes and those typically would be either at BitGo or Coinbase but ultimately sold on Coinbase or used from there to pay expenses denominated in Bitcoin.

Thanks for looking into this.

I really do want to get any dust out of the closets so happy to look into anything that can help us have a clear view of the past and a break from it to the future.

[BillyBobZorton]

I don't get how this hasn't been dissolved already. There's a new interview with Trace Maye which was a part of the foundation that it's saying that the thing should just disappear. What's the point of a foundation that no one takes seriously?

[franky1]

so
KNC paid bitpay:
https://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/65cefdefe5b7879c46df97b7b0f9b8d08064a6534ccfebfe600a61fea113ec41

you would have thought that TBF requested a 500btc withdrawl (imagining it as other member subscriptions to top it upto 500)
https://www.walletexplorer.com/txid/03f2462bd7f983fae1f1bb0d731f304f52179b540a5ed2d46030e6ac9f149b11

but ...

but....here is the problem..
bitpay, like any exchange are just a temporary hotwallet services.. and the balance of users accounts are stored as SQL databases. not locked in bitcoin hoards held independently for that particular customer.
just like any exchange.. the funds coming in are never the same coming out (exchanges mix coins depending on demand that day)

so the bitcoin foundation could have moved out any cumulative amount at any time using any random bitpay hoards that bitpay used to meet demands that day.

that 500btc transaction taint afterwards could have been anything.
it could have been overstock withdrawing funds for selling 500 items at 1btc each.. no one can know for sure
so following 'taint' doesnt work when there is an exchange in the middle.

but atleast we know for sure KNC did pay 205btc in 2014.

[QuestionAuthority]

Kill em all and let God sort them out. I just reported TBF to the IRS and the FTC for suspected fraud. Let the government where they originally formed and filed sort them out.

To all others interested in doing the same:

IRS

https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

IC3

https://complaint.ic3.gov/default.aspx?

FTC

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov

[Gleb Gamow]

Kill em all and let God sort them out. I just reported TBF to the IRS and the FTC for suspected fraud. Let the government where they originally formed and filed sort them out.

To all others interested in doing the same:

IRS

https://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-Tax-Fraud-Activity%3F

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f3949a.pdf

IC3

https://complaint.ic3.gov/default.aspx?

FTC

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov

"You are a bad man. A very bad bald-headed man! No CBH for you for one year!"

 

[BruceFenton]

Kill em all and let God sort them out. I just reported TBF to the IRS and the FTC for suspected fraud. Let the government where they originally formed and filed sort them out.

What is the specific fraud accusation you have?

[QuestionAuthority]

Kill em all and let God sort them out. I just reported TBF to the IRS and the FTC for suspected fraud. Let the government where they originally formed and filed sort them out.

What is the specific fraud accusation you have?

Over inflated salaries, personal vacations and wasteful reckless spending using donated funds in a manner contrary to the promoted mission statement that was used to solicit those donated funds from the membership. Running a non-profit for personal financial wealth.

Those are the reasons I used on the forms anyway.

[BruceFenton]

Over inflated salaries, personal vacations and wasteful reckless spending using donated funds in a manner contrary to the promoted mission statement that was used to solicit those donated funds from the membership. Running a non-profit for personal financial wealth.

Those are the reasons I used on the forms anyway.

What would you like to see happen in this?  Are there specific people you feel are responsible?

Do you want the organization to exist and be repaired or would you prefer it not exist based on past acts?

[QuestionAuthority]

Over inflated salaries, personal vacations and wasteful reckless spending using donated funds in a manner contrary to the promoted mission statement that was used to solicit those donated funds from the membership. Running a non-profit for personal financial wealth.

Those are the reasons I used on the forms anyway.

What would you like to see happen in this?  Are there specific people you feel are responsible?

Do you want the organization to exist and be repaired or would you prefer it not exist based on past acts?

I hate repeating myself.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1309606.msg13419736#msg13419736

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^This.

[BruceFenton]

Bruce, "the organization," at this point, is a name most of us would like to forget, and little else. I understand you wishing to make something of your prestigious title (Chief Chairman Of Bitcoin Science, is it?), but wouldn't it be more humane, and I mean towards all involved, to stop flogging this pony?
Sometimes ...dead is better.

I appreciate you taking the time to create a brand new and anonymous account for the purpose of this (transparency isn't always fun) -- but I really don't think my title is prestigious or helpful.  

It's pretty thankless and actually harms me quite a bit.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The Gay Aardvark isn't new. The foundation is.

[BruceFenton]

I hate repeating myself.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1309606.msg13419736#msg13419736

I was referring to what you would like to see happen with the complaints you issued.  

Is there a specific person or specific people you want targeted by Federal agents?  Who and what do you want to see happen to them?

[BruceFenton]

The Gay Aardvark isn't new. The foundation is.

The account had one post at that time

[BruceFenton]

Nice to meet you

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Bruce, I'd like you to understand and embrace the pseudonymous nature of Bitcoin and this forum. If I wanted my colleagues and family to learn of my gay aardvarkishness, i would have stuck with legacy finance.

That said, the account is far from new. Observe:

Gentlemen!

The Sound Money is on The Gay Aardvark Foundation because:

1. Our name, gentlemen.
Does not evoke peals of rollicking laughter each time it's mentioned. Here in the US, or abroad.
Unlike our Bitcoin counterpart.

2. Squeaky-clean credit: Zero outstanding debts

3. No history of wasting your money:
We have spent exactly 0 (zero) BTC on [gay underage] hookers & blow. Unlike you-know-who.

4. No skeletons in the closet:
None of our board members have been convicted of stealing or laundering money and/or doing Federal time. We didn't even have to pay multimillion-dollar civil settlement to underage minors. We're just lucky that way.

5. We're aardvarks. Bitcoin Foundation has no excuse.

Bonus: Our Chief Scientist seat is not filled, your chance to be a Chief Scientist. Girls love Chief Scientists.
Our membership gifs are way cool too.

All else stacks up pretty evenly.
Let's work to establish a clear list of goals, gentlemen.
Together!

Some of my best friends are gay aardvarks. But why on Earth would they need a foundation? I'm puzzled...

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

^Some of my best friends are Bitcoiners. And frankly, I'm just as puzzled as you are, but about that other foundation. I mean, for one, we aardvarks have no ideological beefs with centralized governance, we're not even that gay, to be honest.
*OK, sorry, in the interest of total transparency: we're really really gay.

Hmm. Interesting point.

[BruceFenton]

^Some of my best friends are Bitcoiners. And frankly, I'm just as puzzled as you are, but about that other foundation. I mean, for one, we aardvarks have no ideological beefs with centralized governance, we're not even that gay, to be honest.
*OK, sorry, in the interest of total transparency: we're really really gay.

@Bruce:
Hello Bruce!
How about we allow the people decide which foundation is more worthy of of their support, yours or The Gay Aardvarks'?
I'm more than willing to engage you in public debate.

I'll be at the Miami Bitcoin Conference -- happy to discuss during Q&A.   

[franky1]

i think the reason why the bitcoin foundation brand should not be dropped is simple.

it has already been awarded non-profit status by the IRS.
this alone normally takes along time, resources and funding to attain that tax category. and although i would love to see a totally new brand heading the way forward to help EVERYONE do ANYTHING blockchain/bitcoin related, its clear that its easier to re-organize an existing  brand than to start right from the beginning with months or headache and paperwork

[BruceFenton]

How many people do you suppose will be there? Because I haven't even heard about it, what is it, another TheBitcoinFoundation event? Ramada Inn conference room w/o catering?
And door charge?

How about we do it here, on BitcoinTalk, where people from all around the globe can follow & ask questions & stuff?

Did you have a bad experience at a foundation event or are you just working to find anything you can be negative about?

It's the North American Bitcoin Conference, Miami, usually one of the larger events of the year.

[franky1]

$49 and 10 minutes. http://www.swyftfilings.com/nonprofit/start-a-nonprofit

$49 is THEIR basic admin fee.. you forgot to add the state fee,
you forgot about the federal tax ID charge
you forgot how long it takes to actually get incorporated after you click go.. it aint 10 minutes
you forgot the time to get all the other stuff related to being a non-profit. such as bank accounts and registering who is authorized to do transactions with banks
you forgot the registered agent fee $99 a year ongoing
..

oh wait its no longer $49 or 10 minutes.

yes i know scammy businesses just st up the minimum to look legit.. but if you want something that is going to be positive then it takes more then just 1 form to fill in and 10 minutes.

though id love to see something totally different and new to give the community a total fresh start, but with TBF already having the paperwork complete.. it might aswell be utilised

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

The original Bitcoin Foundation got funding from Bitcoiners, mostly to pay Gavin's salary. Gavin's gone, and I'm guessing most Bitcoiners would just as soon give money to Gay Aardvarks this time around.

I know I would.

[BruceFenton]

Here's the mission statement by the way

https://github.com/BruceFenton/bitcoinfoundationplan

[BruceFenton]

The original Bitcoin Foundation got funding from Bitcoiners, mostly to pay Gavin's salary. Gavin's gone, and I'm guessing most Bitcoiners would just as soon give money to Gay Aardvarks this time around.

I know I would.

It's pretty straightforward : there is a mission statement up for comment, if the goals of education, adoption, increasing development and keeping Bitcoin from being killed by regulation are important to you then you can support the foundation, if not then you can support one of the many pro-regulation industry groups or support none at all.

I'm just still surprised by the people who actively want the organization to fail based mostly on past acts which were done by people no longer there.

[siameze]

...
It's the North American Bitcoin Conference, Miami, usually one of the larger events of the year.

Let's stop prancing around the issue (which is not to say we gay aardvarks don't like prancing around, we do, we're gay). Even back in Bitcoin's salad days, the events were pretty cringy -- basically poorly-attended, dull bronnycons, but with shit-tier cosplay and even fewer human females.
Now? Judging by this, not worth the candle*

Bitcoin demographic being what it is, this forum is the best, most convenient and public place to have our debate. Frankly, to me it just seems you're trying to make this, our big debate, as private as possible, to sweep it under the rug.


@franky1: http://www.nonprofithub.org/starting-a-nonprofit/how-much-money-do-you-need-to-start-a-nonprofit/
If you feel there's an urgent need for a Foundation, The Gay Aardvarks are here to help. We will incorporate and could start operations immediately, see our previous posts for details. We'll deal with the paperwork, just send us your money.
Ty.
*Unless, of course, you fly me out buisness or better, put me up in a nice hotel & throw in sum per diem foldin' money. Then no prob. You can just file it under "misc."

I support the GayAardvarkFoundation as a way forward. 

In all seriousness, it was kinda sad to see the coindesk article. So much wasted money and no advancements to speak of in Bitcoin space. I still don't believe there is any hope of rescuing the "Bitcoin Foundation" as it's reputation is far too tarnished.

[howelzy]

.

[QuestionAuthority]

I hate repeating myself.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1309606.msg13419736#msg13419736

I was referring to what you would like to see happen with the complaints you issued.  

Is there a specific person or specific people you want targeted by Federal agents?  Who and what do you want to see happen to them?

Two of the founders of TBF were criminals. I wouldn't mind an investigation that showed exactly how far that criminal activity spread. I also wouldn't mind really knowing if the entire group of them were helping Mark Karpeles hide his crime against the community. There is entirely too much criminal activity revolving around that group to make me comfortable with any of them. And, yes that includes the founder Gavin Andresen too. 

[BruceFenton]

Two of the founders of TBF were criminals. I wouldn't mind an investigation that showed exactly how far that criminal activity spread. I also wouldn't mind really knowing if the entire group of them were helping Mark Karpeles hide his crime against the community. There is entirely too much criminal activity revolving around that group to make me comfortable with any of them. And, yes that includes the founder Gavin Andresen too. 

None of those people are involved anymore with the exception of Gavin.

[BruceFenton]

hi bruce,

are you a banker by any chance?

sound like one

"never mind what happened in 2008, no-one cares, but look at this new...'insert bs here'"

regards,
J

The analogy is relevant if you are talking about the same people.  If you want to focus on the last that is fine for you.  Seems odd that you would criticize me for not wanting to focus on things I had absolutely nothing to do with.

[franky1]

im all for people trying to find justice or audit 2014-2015 accounts..

but as separate issues and doing both at the same time.. cant we start something fresh and get the ball rolling with more idea's of what we would like to see and how things should happenfor 2016 that are positive things for bitcoin

there is no point wasting weeks arguing about the past and waiting months for answers.. before then wasting more time doing nothing until the dust settles...
we should be actively looking forward while also looking into the past..

lets do more then just moan about the past. lets moan about the past AND work towards the future

in short 3 birds one stone..

[bargainbin]

Seems odd that you would criticize me for not wanting to focus on things I had absolutely nothing to do with.

Look, when you become the Ne Plus Ultra Uberchairman of the German Nazi party, use similar argument: "It's all in the past, some bad shit happened, sure, but we also built the autobahn & gave you rocketry & VolksWagen, and that's primarily what people remember us for.
Let's stop dwelling on the past and rebuild."

inb4 Godwin's law: Let it go.

im all for people trying to find justice or audit 2014-2015 accounts..

but as separate issues and doing both at the same time.. cant we start something fresh

 Bitcoin Foundation !Fresh: long, sordid history. The name dredges up horrors, children cry, dogs cower, flowers wilt. Also see above.

[BruceFenton]

Seems odd that you would criticize me for not wanting to focus on things I had absolutely nothing to do with.

Look, when you become the Ne Plus Ultra Ubercairman of the German Nazi party, use similar argument: "It's all in the past, some bad shit happened, sure, but we also built the autobahn & gave you rocketry & VolksWagen, and that's primarily what people remember us for.
Let's stop dwelling on the past and rebuild."

inb4 Godwin's law: Let it go.

You're actually the third person on here to compare the Bitcoin Foundation to the Nazis.

Is that really your critical thinking?  :   "The previous administrators wasted money recklessly and two of the original founders were criminals.   Therefor the current people who had nothing to do with this and have a different mission are worth comparing to a regime who caused 20 million deaths and exterminated 6 million based on religion."

[Gyrsur]

Seems odd that you would criticize me for not wanting to focus on things I had absolutely nothing to do with.

Look, when you become the Ne Plus Ultra Ubercairman of the German Nazi party, use similar argument: "It's all in the past, some bad shit happened, sure, but we also built the autobahn & gave you rocketry & VolksWagen, and that's primarily what people remember us for.
Let's stop dwelling on the past and rebuild."

inb4 Godwin's law: Let it go.

You're actually the third person on here to compare the Bitcoin Foundation to the Nazis.

nah, it's the FIFA of Bitcoin. this makes more sense.

[franky1]

 Bitcoin Foundation !Fresh: long, sordid history. The name dredges up horrors, children cry, dogs cower, flowers wilt. Also see above.

so are you just going to waffle for days arguing about the past.. then in 2017 cry that nothing positive has been done
or do you have some positive idea's about something that helps the future, while simultaneously looking at the past aswell

you know .... a word called multi-tasking (doing more than one thing to get more than one result in a shorter time)

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

 Bitcoin Foundation !Fresh: long, sordid history. The name dredges up horrors, children cry, dogs cower, flowers wilt. Also see above.

so are you just going to waffle for days arguing about the past.. then in 2017 cry that nothing positive has been done
or do you have some positive idea's about something that helps the future, while simultaneously looking at the past aswell

you know .... a word called multi-tasking (doing more than one thing to get more than one result in a shorter time)

What do you mean 'nothing positive has been done'? What possible good can come of making the same mistake twice?

@Bruce

The original Bitcoin Foundation got funding from Bitcoiners, mostly to pay Gavin's salary. Gavin's gone, and I'm guessing most Bitcoiners would just as soon give money to Gay Aardvarks this time around.

I know I would.

It's pretty straightforward : there is a mission statement up for comment, if the goals of education, adoption, increasing development and keeping Bitcoin from being killed by regulation are important to you then you can support the foundation, if not then you can support one of the many pro-regulation industry groups or support none at all.

I'm just still surprised by the people who actively want the organization to fail based mostly on past acts which were done by people no longer there.

Bitcoin can't be killed by regulation and it doesn't need missionaries.

How do you expect to fund these projects?

[bargainbin]

Seems odd that you would criticize me for not wanting to focus on things I had absolutely nothing to do with.

Look, when you become the Ne Plus Ultra Ubercairman of the German Nazi party, use similar argument: "It's all in the past, some bad shit happened, sure, but we also built the autobahn & gave you rocketry & VolksWagen, and that's primarily what people remember us for.
Let's stop dwelling on the past and rebuild."

inb4 Godwin's law: Let it go.

You're actually the third person on here to compare the Bitcoin Foundation to the Nazis.

Is that really your critical thinking?  :   "The previous administrators wasted money recklessly and two of the original founders were criminals.   Therefor the current people who had nothing to do with this and have a different mission are worth comparing to a regime who caused 20 million deaths and exterminated 6 million based on religion."

Bruce, is it possible that you really miss what I'm saying? Has anyone introduced you to such arcane esoterica as analogies? Do you understand how those work? Or comparisons in general?

Shall I compare thee to a summer's day? In this line, the author is not trying to suggest that your average temperature is 70 degrees and you have 24 hours. Analogously, I am not trying to say you shot for the Final Solution. Merely that, much like National Socialism, Bitcoin Foundation got a bad rep, well-deserved or not. How literal do I need to be here?

[bargainbin]

 Bitcoin Foundation !Fresh: long, sordid history. The name dredges up horrors, children cry, dogs cower, flowers wilt. Also see above.

so are you just going to waffle for days arguing about the past.. then in 2017 cry that nothing positive has been done
or do you have some positive idea's about something that helps the future, while simultaneously looking at the past aswell

you know .... a word called multi-tasking (doing more than one thing to get more than one result in a shorter time)

I know the word multitasking. Now you do, too. What part of "you can't polish shit" still eludes you? If you want shiny, don't start with shit.
Flush down the terlit & start from scratch.

[franky1]

blah blah blah

endless slagging match and endless naming calling about people that are not in the company anymore

endless slagging match and complaining about what the old company didnt do, but should of

endless slagging match about something that cant be undone ..

blah blah blah

boring boring boring..

blah blah blah

ok so i have summed up the 20 pages of this thread..
im moving on and looking forwards
enjoy months of arguing about things you cant and dont want to change

[bargainbin]

Bitcoin needs a Foundation much less than Gay Aardvarks do, which is to say not at all. It's what's called "de·cen·tral·ized." That means it does fine without a central Prom Committee, doesn't need one. Not even a good one, much less a shitty one with a long criminal history, which is what this thread is about.

If you want to start one, you're free to try, but don't hijack this thread. K?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

As I've mentioned, ThePolicyCounsil.com was never a working website (was even for sale in 2014, as I've depicted) nor can I find incorp docs of ThePolicyCounsil.com INC which was paid the aforementioned amount.

Again, no idea what you are accusing.

Is the accusation that Jim didn't have a website?  That he was paid as reported?  Do you think he was paid differently than what was reported?  What?  I said I'm glad to seek justice for any illegal act....but I don't even see what you are accusing.

Try the format:

I accuse _____ of _____ (crime/ bad act) based on ______ evidence."   This might encourage some basic critical thinking.

I accuse you and Brock Pierce of mincing about with the dead body of The Bitcoin Foundation a la Weekend at Bernie's. There, I said it.

Oh, fuck! Dude played the Weekend at Bernie's Card. Now you got Bruce reevaluating his card holdings in hope of trumping your unexpected play. This could get interesting.

The weekend's over boys. You had your fun.

[BruceFenton]

Bitcoin needs a Foundation much less than Gay Aardvarks do, which is to say not at all. It's what's called "de·cen·tral·ized." That means it does fine without a central Prom Committee, doesn't need one. Not even a good one, much less a shitty one with a long criminal history, which is what this thread is about.

If you want to start one, you're free to try, but don't hijack this thread. K?

That's an old argument in Bitcoin -- but it just doesn't hold water.

Just because the technology of Bitcoin is decentralized doesn't mean that it can't benefit from structures which have worked for many years.  Linux Foundation, Mozilla Foundation etc. etc.

Bitcoin is not even primarily a tool of corporate governance- it's a pretty tertiary feature that isn't even really operational yet.

We could say this about anything: "Bitcoin doesn't need corporations, down with corporations."  "Bitcoin developers don't need websites, the longest block is all that matters."  "Bitcoin doesn't need Github...."  "Bitcoin doesn't need MeetUps or conferences."

etc. 

It's silly.

In the real world there are industry groups.  It's a reality of the world we live in.  Bitcoin may and hopefully will change that world ...starting with currency, the way money is transferred then other things....eventually tech related to Bitcoin may cause rise to more crowdfunding and other alternatives to centralized organizations....but that's just not the case yet. 

It's also not a zero sum game-- it's not as if there was no Bitcoin Foundation there would no no industry groups....they'd simply be replaced by the many other industry groups.  Which BY THE WAY it's worth noting IMHO generally are at odds with the majority opinion of people on this board, community and Bitcoin users.

I'd even say that, the team and mission we have now is more in line with this board and the over all Bitcoin dedicated user base than most of the other groups.  Take a poll:  who supported Bitlicense?   Who supports the CoinCenter alliance with the DHS, FBI, TSA to help "catch bad guys"?   I warned about Ben Lawsky when most of the industry was fawning over him -- I called him out publicly and was one of his most vocal critics.  I stood with the EFF against CoinCenter and their desire to pass the new California Bitcoin bill (we and EFF won, the bill was defeated).   

The current mission calls for advocacy, education, increasing activity in Bitcoin development, communications and standing against destructive regulations.

If you don't like those things, that's fine....but it's crazy to think that by wishing for Bitcoin Foundation to fail that Bitcoin will somehow be the first industry to have no industry groups.

[QuestionAuthority]

This "save the TBF" campaign is really a losing proposition anyway. The original TBF group were all respected and admired almost to the point of adoration. The group of potential "members" we're gleaned from a forum full of early miners that had plenty of Bitcoin to throw around so asking for 25 coins each was like bumming a cigarette. TBF made its money holding till the jump in price. We all had btc to throw at causes. It's a different animal today. I've lost so many bitcoins to failed experiments and crooks that it almost makes me want to cry thinking about it. I can't mine enough to return even a fraction of what I've lost or invested. I wouldn't give 25 btc to anyone for anything at this point. Promoting any new org here is going to fall on broke deaf ears. The business members know they don't need it to succeed so good luck on your future funding efforts. I doubt you'll have any luck finding another MtGox with thousands of stolen btc to buy an expensive membership. Regardless of your good intentions, TBF is gone.

[bargainbin]

...
If you don't like those things, that's fine....but it's crazy to think that by wishing for Bitcoin Foundation to fail that Bitcoin will somehow be the first industry to have no industry groups.

Mining is an industry.
Payment processors are an industry.
Gambling is an industry.
Even whoring is an industry.
But not Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not an industry. It's still A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System. No thanks, may I add, to douches like you.

In the real world there are industry groups.  It's a reality of the world we live in.

ORLY? OK, I got unpleasant news for you too: IRL, gentlemen such as yourself are often handed the crown. Almost inevitably tho, it happens after the place's been raped, thoroughly pillaged, with villagers already gathering at the gates.
Need I mention said villages didn't come on over to make friends?

[Makingsure]

im all for people trying to find justice or audit 2014-2015 accounts..

but as separate issues and doing both at the same time.. cant we start something fresh and get the ball rolling with more idea's of what we would like to see and how things should happenfor 2016 that are positive things for bitcoin

there is no point wasting weeks arguing about the past and waiting months for answers.. before then wasting more time doing nothing until the dust settles...
we should be actively looking forward while also looking into the past..

lets do more then just moan about the past. lets moan about the past AND work towards the future

in short 3 birds one stone..

what do you want bruce to say? the "plan" for 2016? find a way to pay these people they still owe off the books (for what we havent even been told or how much a week later)    TRANSPARANCY?

[Bitcoinpro]

Franks attemps to try to provide some kind of obscure side support is hilarious

he is part of this scam, no knowledgeable Bitcoin supporter in their right mind

would support continuation of the company under the same name.

[Gleb Gamow]

Bruce, I'd like you to understand and embrace the pseudonymous nature of Bitcoin and this forum. If I wanted my colleagues and family to learn of my gay aardvarkishness, i would have stuck with legacy finance.

That said, the account is far from new. Observe:

Gentlemen!

The Sound Money is on The Gay Aardvark Foundation because:

1. Our name, gentlemen.
Does not evoke peals of rollicking laughter each time it's mentioned. Here in the US, or abroad.
Unlike our Bitcoin counterpart.

2. Squeaky-clean credit: Zero outstanding debts

3. No history of wasting your money:
We have spent exactly 0 (zero) BTC on [gay underage] hookers & blow. Unlike you-know-who.

4. No skeletons in the closet:
None of our board members have been convicted of stealing or laundering money and/or doing Federal time. We didn't even have to pay multimillion-dollar civil settlement to underage minors. We're just lucky that way.

5. We're aardvarks. Bitcoin Foundation has no excuse.

Bonus: Our Chief Scientist seat is not filled, your chance to be a Chief Scientist. Girls love Chief Scientists.
Our membership gifs are way cool too.

All else stacks up pretty evenly.
Let's work to establish a clear list of goals, gentlemen.
Together!

Some of my best friends are gay aardvarks. But why on Earth would they need a foundation? I'm puzzled...

Damn you guys! I missed the whole "gay aardvark" episode while it was going live. If I were here, I'm sure I could've source at least one pic off the Internet depicting male aardvarks enjoying a hot tub. 

[Gleb Gamow]

^Some of my best friends are Bitcoiners. And frankly, I'm just as puzzled as you are, but about that other foundation. I mean, for one, we aardvarks have no ideological beefs with centralized governance, we're not even that gay, to be honest.
*OK, sorry, in the interest of total transparency: we're really really gay.

@Bruce:
Hello Bruce!
How about we allow the people decide which foundation is more worthy of of their support, yours or The Gay Aardvarks'?
I'm more than willing to engage you in public debate.

I'll be at the Miami Bitcoin Conference -- happy to discuss during Q&A.   

Hey, Bruce, wouldn't it be funny if the very first question is along the lines: Bruce, did you or did you not associate with pedophile aardvarks? After a slight pause, all the monitors show a Photoshop image (unless you have a real pic) of you in a hot tub surrounded by happy aardvarks, keeping the image up the entire time during the Q&A.

<I think I wet my pants while penning this post>

[Gleb Gamow]

i think the reason why the bitcoin foundation brand should not be dropped is simple.

it has already been awarded non-profit status by the IRS.
this alone normally takes along time, resources and funding to attain that tax category. and although i would love to see a totally new brand heading the way forward to help EVERYONE do ANYTHING blockchain/bitcoin related, its clear that its easier to re-organize an existing  brand than to start right from the beginning with months or headache and paperwork

Good point.

[rizzlarolla]

blah blah blah

endless slagging match and endless naming calling about people that are not in the company anymore

endless slagging match and complaining about what the old company didnt do, but should of

endless slagging match about something that cant be undone ..

blah blah blah

boring boring boring..

blah blah blah

ok so i have summed up the 20 pages of this thread..
im moving on and looking forwards
enjoy months of arguing about things you cant and dont want to change

Bruce (added)

In this case we already know what happened: a bunch of money was spend and Bitcoin value dropped - the money is gone and so are the people who made those decisions.   I don't think an audit would uncover new info.

rizz

Can you/TBF not focus on Bitcoin/moving TBF forward in conjunction with an audit? I don't really see much crossover.
Edit. Indeed, Would an audit not give some "credibility" to carry on?

Frankie

do you have some positive idea's about something that helps the future, while simultaneously looking at the past aswell

Very much the same thing? (also my edit line)

I think it somewhat unfortunate Bruce started this thread as "Where on earth did all the money go?" ...
Then expect not to get a (negative) reaction on that subject.
Bruces answer to that question? Ridiculously wasteful and reckless spending, (and other things) forget it now, move on. (open to interpretation of course)

Also,Bruces engagement with some posters seemed completely unstructured. He seemed easily drawn into pointless repetative reactionary posting.
(trying not to take sides here, but what did he expect to happen?)

So, to help facilitate moving forward, Bruce needs to structure his debating technique maybe?

[tomothy]

i think the reason why the bitcoin foundation brand should not be dropped is simple.

it has already been awarded non-profit status by the IRS.
this alone normally takes along time, resources and funding to attain that tax category. and although i would love to see a totally new brand heading the way forward to help EVERYONE do ANYTHING blockchain/bitcoin related, its clear that its easier to re-organize an existing  brand than to start right from the beginning with months or headache and paperwork

Good point.

The non-profit status is of significant relevance as it essentially has value due to the time it can otherwise take to actually be recognized and accepted by the IRS.

Bruce, I saw a post of yours very recently, possibly in a thread concerning 'bitcoin classic,' the thread seemed to vanish but if I recall correctly, you had been suggesting that the interactions between the various opposing block-size camps could come across as disingenuous, and could put more effort in working together? I thought it was a well thought out post at the time; can't find it now but c'est la vie. However, I digress...

With regards to the audit, people will always bitch and moan about an audit not having taken place which leaves a specter of uncertainty shrouding TBF. It's stupid. It's fairly evident to see that the money's gone but that won't be an acceptable answer to contrarians. I don't know if you could put out a request or something similar for audit services but it could address the underlying cost of an audit. I'm not sure if that is something a company might want to do on behalf of TBF to then deduct as some sort of a tax break. Something similar could apply to ongoing legal fees/advice. That way you could satisfy the naysayers without throwing good money after bad... literally lol...

I thought your reddit post was good, I think group/joint letters from TBF could be even better. We know other companies are involved with blockchain technology which may or may not include bitcoin. Although you can start to get into issues with trade secrets and the like, it would be interesting to see the thought processes of those groups involved and what sort of synergy is possible. I.e. Microsoft bitcoin/ethereum/blockchain, Overstock with T0, then the whole Rc3 or R3 consortium.

Ultimately I think the actions TBF decides to take moving forward in the future will help it distance itself from any perception of a corrupted past. I.e., showing that TBF is relevant, besides just hosting a conference, is a good step in the right direction at restoring confidence in TBF.

TLDR: TBF is only relevant to the extent TBF makes itself relevant.

Just my .02btc

[rizzlarolla]

rizz

On a personal level thats fine,
But as BF chair, or whatever, I would like to see your default position as - wanting an audit for transparency-
Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

tomothy

With regards to the audit, people will always bitch and moan about an audit not having taken place which leaves a specter of uncertainty shrouding TBF. It's stupid. It's fairly evident to see that the money's gone but that won't be an acceptable answer to contrarians. I don't know if you could put out a request or something similar for audit services but it could address the underlying cost of an audit. I'm not sure if that is something a company might want to do on behalf of TBF to then deduct as some sort of a tax break. Something similar could apply to ongoing legal fees/advice. That way you could satisfy the naysayers without throwing good money after bad... literally lol...

Same thing again?

Bruce

I won't stand in the way of anyone who wants to do one.  I personally would rather focus on things more directly beneficial to Bitcoin

Do you see, he cant/wont accept that very first basic, albeit ridiculous waste of time, principle?

[BruceFenton]

what do you want bruce to say? the "plan" for 2016? find a way to pay these people they still owe off the books (for what we havent even been told or how much a week later)    TRANSPARANCY?

I know transparency was a problem with past admins.

The day I volunteered and had access I tweeted the financials.

Since then I've had the tax returns, financials and board minutes of every meeting released.  I resea chef best practices of transparency in non-profits and have worked to exceed every one.

If there is any item that you think should be released that isn't, please let me know.

[Gyrsur]

@BruceFenton: if you want to do a usefull thing start to work on specifications for Bitcoin or please organize it within TBF. that is neccesarry and would have a real value.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1326346.msg13539701#msg13539701

[BruceFenton]

Mining is an industry.
Payment processors are an industry.
Gambling is an industry.
Even whoring is an industry.
But not Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not an industry. It's still A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System. No thanks, may I add, to douches like you.

Lots of people disagree & would call the miners, exchanges, wallets etc part of the same industry.

But either way -- let's say you are right, there is no such thing as the Bitcoin industry -- you must have some term you use to describe industry conferences, events, meetings, this board etc.

But even if not--   Fact is that there are now and will be groups in this ...space...whatever you want to call it.

Those groups exist, they are here and they are not going anywhere.

You can support CoinCenter or DCC or Bitcoin Foundation or Bitcoin Association or whatever -- or none.   But they will be doing whatever activity they focus on:  asking for more Bitcoin laws, fighting against more Bitcoin laws, holding events, speaking to the press etc. whether you participate or not.

Seems sensible to align with a group whose mission you support.

[Gyrsur]

Mining is an industry.
Payment processors are an industry.
Gambling is an industry.
Even whoring is an industry.
But not Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not an industry. It's still A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System. No thanks, may I add, to douches like you.

Lots of people disagree & would call the miners, exchanges, wallets etc part of the same industry.

But either way -- let's say you are right, there is no such thing as the Bitcoin industry -- you must have some term you use to describe industry conferences, events, meetings, this board etc.

But even if not--   Fact is that there are now and will be groups in this ...space...whatever you want to call it.

Those groups exist, they are here and they are not going anywhere.

You can support CoinCenter or DCC or Bitcoin Foundation or Bitcoin Association or whatever -- or none.   But they will be doing whatever activity they focus on:  asking for more Bitcoin laws, fighting against more Bitcoin laws, holding events, speaking to the press etc. whether you participate or not.

Seems sensible to align with a group whose mission you support.

my impression is you have too much time to spend!

[BruceFenton]

ok so i have summed up the 20 pages of this thread..
im moving on and looking forwards
enjoy months of arguing about things you cant and dont want to change

Frank makes a good point.

When I hosted the Dubai Bitcoin Conference people mostly
1) ignored it
2) attended
3) supported it and hoped it would do well
or, a few rare cases 4) hoped it would fail

#4 was pretty rare.

I'd encourage people to look at the mission and current team.

If we all forgot about the Bitcoin Foundation for a minute and I posted a post that said:

"Hey everyone, me, Bobby Lee, Vinny Lingham and a dozen other volunteers are getting together to do a few non-profit learning conferences with too developers, work to keep Bitcoin as regulation free as possible and to increase communication and education, Bobby and I each donated $10k to this and we've got several major Bitcoin individuals and companies who support the idea."

What would people say?  "Cool, hope you do well" or "Screw you you filthy dirty Nazi scumbag I hope you die, how dare you volunteer to do this?"

That's all the Bitcoin Foundation is at this point: a group of volunteers, two part time employees ans a network of members.

Yep -- it had a crappy past.   That sucks.  I wish it was different -- but I didn't have a damn thing to do with it...it is what it is and I can't change it.   My choice is to either shut it down or move forward.   There's a vocal social media community of people who hate the organization ...I get it.  There is also a large community of members and volunteers - there's a 52k fan Twitter page, high traffic website, forum etc.  What right do I have to destroy all that?  Is it better if it was gone?

We decided that it's better to move forward and try to use the org to help Bitcoin than not.  8/10 of the past highest voted candidates from the last 4 elections think that this is what the members want, I agree.

It's here, it's not going to die today or tomorrow or next month or the month after.

Consistently the concern now is reputation.  Got it.  Reputation can change...especially if systems change and the team changes.  The history is done.   We can write the next chapter in the future.  1-2 years from now we can say, Bitcoin had something that was broke and we fixed it.

Help the foundation make lemonade from lemons.

[Makingsure]

what do you want bruce to say? the "plan" for 2016? find a way to pay these people they still owe off the books (for what we havent even been told or how much a week later)    TRANSPARANCY?

I know transparency was a problem with past admins.

The day I volunteered and had access I tweeted the financials.

Since then I've had the tax returns, financials and board minutes of every meeting released.  I resea chef best practices of transparency in non-profits and have worked to exceed every one.

If there is any item that you think should be released that isn't, please let me know.

arg this is the problem with you, you continue to beat around the bush, wont str8 answer anything, i will never again support TBF, mainly cause of you now, so ty.
HOW MUCH DOES TBF HAVE IN LIABILITIES?
HOW DO THEY OWE STILL "UNOFFICIALLY"
FOR WHAT?
cause to me it may be cheaper to wipe this thing i feel once the truth comes out an audit will show around 3-10 million of liabilities no doubt.

total scam, and honestly the non proffit status is just too tempting in btc, i mean cmon bitcoin plus non-profit dont really go together do they? whoever runs the TBF will always use it for personal gain plain and simple  

[BruceFenton]

Bitcoin can't be killed by regulation and it doesn't need missionaries.

How do you expect to fund these projects?

Maybe can't be killed but sure as hell can be harmed:

Extreme case:
Tomorrow ISIS has a 9-11 scale attack on the US.
Funding is provably traced to Bitcoin or even just strongly accused.
Jamie Dimon's favorite Senator issues a bill called "The Protection of American Freedoms and Combating the Funding of Terrorism" bill declaring ownership of Bitcoin to be a felony in the US with a five year prison sentence and websites discussing Bitcoin are aiding a criminal act
The EU and China follow on with a similar law at the request of the US Stste Dept.

You don't think that kills Bitcoin as we know it?



Less extreme example:

CoinCenter was pushing for a new Bitcoin law in California.  We stood with the EFF against it and the law was defeated.
Would it have killed Bitcoin?  Nah.  But I think preventing it helped.


As for how to fund the mission--   So far, we specifically picked things that don't cost much but have a high impact.  The DevCore San Jose meeting for example only had a net cost of a couple thousand bucks and with more sponsors could have actually made a profit.   Having a speakers bureau, press matching service etc. are free / very low cost.

[Gyrsur]

^^he is a troll. don't waste your time.

[BruceFenton]

Franks attemps to try to provide some kind of obscure side support is hilarious

he is part of this scam, no knowledgeable Bitcoin supporter in their right mind

would support continuation of the company under the same name.

Let's not get over-dramatic.  1) there is no 'scam'



2)   I'm not that smart, so happy to discount myself as a "knowledgeable Bitcoin supporter"

But how about Vinny Lingham, Bobby Lee, Micky Malta, Elizabeth Ploshay, Michael Perklin etc.

Do you consider them knowledgeable supporters?

How about the CEOs of Tally Capital, BitPay, Circle, ItBit, Chain, ChangeTip, ButFury and the many others who have recently pledged support?   Also not knowledgable?

Believe it or not many people who don't read BitcoinTalk or Reddit are not even really aware of problems with the name.

But I get it--   For some the sins of the past leaders can never be erased by the new leaders.

A thought:  what if a new name and new organization was created and the Bitcoin Foundation bylaws were scrapped but the 503c6 status, Twitter, members and volunteers rolled in -- keeping the name and website for those members / donors who were told the logo would be included etc.

Hypothetically :   Would that satisfy you or most critics?

[rizzlarolla]

rizz

On a personal level thats fine,
But as BF chair, or whatever, I would like to see your default position as - wanting an audit for transparency-
Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

Frankie

do you have some positive idea's about something that helps the future, while simultaneously looking at the past aswell

tomothy

With regards to the audit, people will always bitch and moan about an audit not having taken place which leaves a specter of uncertainty shrouding TBF. It's stupid. It's fairly evident to see that the money's gone but that won't be an acceptable answer to contrarians. I don't know if you could put out a request or something similar for audit services but it could address the underlying cost of an audit. I'm not sure if that is something a company might want to do on behalf of TBF to then deduct as some sort of a tax break. Something similar could apply to ongoing legal fees/advice. That way you could satisfy the naysayers without throwing good money after bad... literally lol...

Makingsure

HOW MUCH DOES TBF HAVE IN LIABILITIES?
HOW DO THEY OWE STILL "UNOFFICIALLY" FOR WHAT?

Same thing again?

Bruce

I won't stand in the way of anyone who wants to do one.  I personally would rather focus on things more directly beneficial to Bitcoin

Bruce

I'd encourage people to look at the mission and current team.

Do you see, he cant/wont accept that very first basic, albeit ridiculous waste of time, principle?

[BruceFenton]

I think it somewhat unfortunate Bruce started this thread as "Where on earth did all the money go?" ...
Then expect not to get a (negative) reaction on that subject.
Bruces answer to that question? Ridiculously wasteful and reckless spending, (and other things) forget it now, move on. (open to interpretation of course)

Also,Bruces engagement with some posters seemed completely unstructured. He seemed easily drawn into pointless repetative reactionary posting.
(trying not to take sides here, but what did he expect to happen?)

So, to help facilitate moving forward, Bruce needs to structure his debating technique maybe?

I understand your point.

I chose the sensational headline and wording of "ridiculous waste and spending" in an effort to go overboard in stating that I don't support the decisions of the past that I had no involvement with.   I'm not saying to ignore it.   I'm putting it right out in the open for all to see and saying: look, this sucked, bad decisions, bad luck etc.

And with that, yes, I am saying to move on.  I still haven't heard a compelling case about how lots of time, effort and money dwelling on these errors helps Bitcoin.  I volunteered to help Bitcoin not chase skeletons.

I want to be be able to come on this board in the future and say "look at the positive things this org has done" -- if I ask a member to join or renew and they ask what the orgs time or focus is I want to point to something more useful than "we dug around the crappy past and confirmed that it was definitely indeed crappy"

As for debate, yep, I get sucked into sidetracks...side effect of attempting to answer all comments in a fair way - benefits and drawbacks of each.

[BruceFenton]

arg this is the problem with you, you continue to beat around the bush, wont str8 answer anything, i will never again support TBF, mainly cause of you now, so ty.
HOW MUCH DOES TBF HAVE IN LIABILITIES?
HOW DO THEY OWE STILL "UNOFFICIALLY"
FOR WHAT?
cause to me it may be cheaper to wipe this thing i feel once the truth comes out an audit will show around 3-10 million of liabilities no doubt.

total scam, and honestly the non proffit status is just too tempting in btc, i mean cmon bitcoin plus non-profit dont really go together do they? whoever runs the TBF will always use it for personal gain plain and simple  

What on earth are you talking about?

The Bitcoin Foundation doesn't owe anyone anything officially or unofficially with the exception of very minor ongoing expenses like web hosting which is paid monthly and is up to date....maybe $200 and is not and has not been overdue.

Where in the world would you get the idea that the foundation owes anything close to those high numbers?  Who would it be owed to?

On the other hand the foundation IS OWED money by others: a couple corporate event sponsors who never paid and an $18,000 fee sharing bill owed by former ED Peter Vessenses

[rizzlarolla]

Bruce

I want to be be able to come on this board in the future and say "look at the positive things this org has done"

And so do I, and so does franky, but...

Bruce

I still haven't heard a compelling case about how lots of time, effort and money dwelling on these errors helps Bitcoin.

Principle is a funny thing. you either get it or you dont.

Bruce

I volunteered to help Bitcoin not chase skeletons.

rizz

Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

*added * (Add time on that if you want,  (due to lack of finance and time) same thing as "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved")

[bargainbin]

...
Makingsure

HOW MUCH DOES TBF HAVE IN LIABILITIES?
HOW DO THEY OWE STILL "UNOFFICIALLY" FOR WHAT?

...

Why is this difficult to address?

[BruceFenton]

By 'volunteers,' you mean 'send us money so we could spend it on things that are good for bitcoin'?

When you have your hand out, asking people to donate money which you'll control, the distinction between 'volunteer' and 'd00d who could put his dog on the payroll' becomes pretty fuzzy

So what would be left -- the unnamed, unspecified debts & yourself?

No.  By volunteers I mean people like me, Perklin, Bobby Lee, Atty Marco Santori, Gavin Andresen, all other board members, Education Committee a Chair Colin Gallagher, the people who manned the door at DevCore and others who work for free, without pay on projects at the foundation which they believe help Bitcoin.

That's what I mean by volunteers.

I don't really have my hand out -- have not done fundraising since I volunteered.  But yes, will ask and hope that new and past supporters have memberships.

I personally donated $10,000 of my own money to the foundation last week.

All organizations and all non-profits ultimately have someone who is able to sign checks and make spending decisions.

I completely stand by every spending decision I've been involved with and have been transparent about them.

If they trust me and my business track record they can, if not and they think I'd hire my dog as your example then they should not donate.

I ask no one to do something I would not do.

[BruceFenton]

...
Makingsure

HOW MUCH DOES TBF HAVE IN LIABILITIES?
HOW DO THEY OWE STILL "UNOFFICIALLY" FOR WHAT?

...

Why is this difficult to address?

Answered it above.

Not sure where this idea came from.  Foundation doesn't owe anyone anything other than very minor ongoing expenses like web hosting in the $200 range which are all and have been up to date and paid.

[rizzlarolla]

Audit?

Franky, do you want to move on without an audit? (think you said "hand in hand")

Who's not getting it here?

[bargainbin]

...
Makingsure

HOW MUCH DOES TBF HAVE IN LIABILITIES?
HOW DO THEY OWE STILL "UNOFFICIALLY" FOR WHAT?

...

Why is this difficult to address?

Answered it above.

Not sure where this idea came from.  Foundation doesn't owe anyone anything other than very minor ongoing expenses like web hosting in the $200 range which are all and have been up to date and paid.

So no debts?
And the plus side of the ledger, assets? (in USD or BTC)

[BruceFenton]

Bruce

I want to be be able to come on this board in the future and say "look at the positive things this org has done"

And so do I, and so does franky, but...

Bruce

I still haven't heard a compelling case about how lots of time, effort and money dwelling on these errors helps Bitcoin.

Principle is a funny thing. you either get it or you dont.

Bruce

I volunteered to help Bitcoin not chase skeletons.

rizz

Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

The thing is with this:  do you realize you are asking me to take my own personal free time away from my job, work and family to pursue something that I don't believe in?

Why would that be on me any more than it is on you?

I didn't create the foundation, I wasn't involved in it during the early days like so many on this thread.

I ad absolutely nothing to do with it until earlier this year....after the problems.

It's no more mine than yours.

I have a limited amount of spare time -- I'm willing to use that time, my knowledge, connections and any abilities I have to do things which I personally think help Bitcoin:  organize conferences etc.  

I'm a volunteer.  This is what I volunteered to do and it takes tons of time.

I think it would make a lot more sense to expect me to do this if I 1) was paid or 2) had anything whatsoever to do with these issues.

For me this feels like showing up at soup kitchen:

"Hi, I'm Bruce, I want to volunteer to feed the homeless people."

"Screw you, the guy who fed the homeless people three people before you who you never met wasted the money on donuts.  We already know he wasted the money.  Forget the food, get down in the basement and go through the file cabinet and audit for more details."

[BruceFenton]

Audit?

Franky, do you want to move on without an audit? (think you said "hand in hand")

Who's not getting it here?

Audits are mainly to 1) find out what happened or 2) change procedures or personnel (like security audit)

What do you think an audit could reveal that we don't already know?

It's not as if the records the old admin left claimed they didn't lose the money or something aa they admitted it and I've uncovered all the details of how it was spent and lost...starting with the base of the original post here.

[BruceFenton]

Answered it above.

Not sure where this idea came from.  Foundation doesn't owe anyone anything other than very minor ongoing expenses like web hosting in the $200 range which are all and have been up to date and paid.

So no debts?
And the plus side of the ledger, assets? (in USD or BTC)

Yes, no debts.

This info has been released regularly ever since I volunteered so it shouldn't be news at all and should be clear.

Current cash and Bitcoin assets are about $30k (I think about 50 of that is BTC) with another $10k pledged by Pierce.   Foundation has recievables of $30k or so from Vessenses and others but has not been able to collect.

In 2014 assets went from $4.5 million to $300k -- when I volunteered in April 2015 there was $70k left and several outstanding debts (I'm guessing $20k-30k) which needed to be paid.

[Gyrsur]

Answered it above.

Not sure where this idea came from.  Foundation doesn't owe anyone anything other than very minor ongoing expenses like web hosting in the $200 range which are all and have been up to date and paid.

So no debts?
And the plus side of the ledger, assets? (in USD or BTC)

Yes, no debts.

This info has been released regularly ever since I volunteered so it shouldn't be news at all and should be clear.

Current cash and Bitcoin assets are about $30k (I think about 50 of that is BTC) with another $10k pledged by Pierce.   Foundation has recievables of $30k or so from Vessenses and others but has not been able to collect.

In 2014 assets went from $4.5 million to $300k -- when I volunteered in April 2015 there was $70k left and several outstanding debts (I'm guessing $20k-30k) which needed to be paid.

yes, TBF is done. your words above.

[bargainbin]

...
Yes, no debts.

This info has been released regularly ever since I volunteered so it shouldn't be news at all and should be clear.

Current cash and Bitcoin assets are about $30k (I think about 50 of that is BTC) with another $10k pledged by Pierce.   Foundation has recievables of $30k or so from Vessenses and others but has not been able to collect.

In 2014 assets went from $4.5 million to $300k -- when I volunteered in April 2015 there was $70k left and several outstanding debts (I'm guessing $20k-30k) which needed to be paid.

Thanks, heading in the right direction.

Current monthly expenses? Would probably help if you had the actual figures handy [perhaps posted?] -- wording like 'I'm guessing' and 'about' doesn't inspire confidence.

[tomothy]

Audit?

Franky, do you want to move on without an audit? (think you said "hand in hand")

Who's not getting it here?

Audits are mainly to 1) find out what happened or 2) change procedures or personnel (like security audit)

What do you think an audit could reveal that we don't already know?

It's not as if the records the old admin left claimed they didn't lose the money or something aa they admitted it and I've uncovered all the details of how it was spent and lost...starting with the base of the original post here.

So, I recognize that you think an audit is a waste of what remains of TBF's meager resources. However, I believe, as a non-for-profit, you have an obligation to conduct a yearly audit. The question therein lies, has one taken place or is one planned for taking place in 2015/2016?

You have certain fiduciary duties as a member of the Board which you have an obligation to uphold. Loyalty/Care, etc., etc., etc. It may come as some surprise, but TBTF/TehLaw, don't really like bitcoin and bitcoin organizations that have dirty hands make great exampes as showpieces mounted hanging on walls over fireplaces. So although you might not want to conduct an audit, it would appear, as you operate as a non-for-profit, in New York, that you have to... (This assumes your domiciled in NY and I think that is the case but I'm too tired to double check right now.)

http://charitiesnys.com/pdfs/Charities_Internal_Controls.pdf

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nonprofit/downloads/pdf/Internal%20Controls%20and%20Financial%20Accountability%20for%20Not-for-Profit%20Board%20OAG.pdf

https://www.bdo.com/getattachment/546e370e-3df7-489d-b0c0-5985a6cc58cf/attachment.aspx


http://www.charitiesnys.com/pdfs/CHAR500_2013_June2014.pdf

Did you take in more than $25k in donations? Yes = Audit. No = Exempt...

I'm not a director, so I don't have any personal liability at stake, but honestly this is serious business and significant resources in play. If these are outstanding issues, this stuff has to get fixed in order to take TBF seriously.

* http://www.pbpatl.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/NFPGuide_2012.pdf -

http://www.charitiesnys.com/pdfs/Annual%20Filing%20Requirements.pdf

http://www.charitiesnys.com/pdfs/char500i.pdf

Thank you for your time and taking this information into consideration if you were previously unaware of the duties and responsibilities associated with the operation of a relatively large non-for-profit entity.

[tomothy]

Answered it above.

Not sure where this idea came from.  Foundation doesn't owe anyone anything other than very minor ongoing expenses like web hosting in the $200 range which are all and have been up to date and paid.

So no debts?
And the plus side of the ledger, assets? (in USD or BTC)

Yes, no debts.

This info has been released regularly ever since I volunteered so it shouldn't be news at all and should be clear.

Current cash and Bitcoin assets are about $30k (I think about 50 of that is BTC) with another $10k pledged by Pierce.   Foundation has recievables of $30k or so from Vessenses and others but has not been able to collect.

In 2014 assets went from $4.5 million to $300k -- when I volunteered in April 2015 there was $70k left and several outstanding debts (I'm guessing $20k-30k) which needed to be paid.

Holy Crap. so ~$30k remains. Wow. Well then, that certainly restricts the ability to really do much if anything. I'd be contemplating clawback and suing prior leadership for gross mismanagement. That is sad. :/ What's projected 3-6mos cashflow donations look like? Can you start selling tshirts or something? Branding with various companies? Seriously, you need donors but I know you recognize that issue. It's certainly a tough one. :/

[BruceFenton]

It's a part of the duties you volunteered to preform. Can't pick and chose.


That's simply false. You're heading BTF, no one else.

Not quite like that tho. If you came here with "Hi, I'm Bruce, I'm starting a Bitcoin Foundation," the analogy would be apt.

I view my responsibilities I volunteered for as mainly to further the mission of the foundation and execute plans related to it. 

I also am responsible to communicate, justify any spending or decisions I'm involved with and comply with all laws governing the activities of the foundation. 

For the past before I was there - there is certainly no legal requirement that I spend my own money or volunteer my time to chase past decisions beyond what I feel is useful. 

You still haven't answered what you think a more details audit could reveal.  I'm pretty confident that the story the previous admin gave is pretty much what happened - there are receipts, transactions and two accountants / bookkeeper who have reviewed them.  It's not a good story, pretty story or one that shows good decisions but I don't see any evidence that it's a lie and can't justify spending my money or the money of others chasing something that I think will only confirm what we already know. 

If there is demand for this then someone will support it -- and I will support them and open all records to them -- but as far as me being one and only the guy holding the bag to track down stuff we already know from people I've never even met if no one else cares to support it : not what I volunteered for. 

[BruceFenton]

??

Text didn't take.  See edit

[rizzlarolla]

Bruce

I want to be be able to come on this board in the future and say "look at the positive things this org has done"

And so do I, and so does franky, but...

Bruce

I still haven't heard a compelling case about how lots of time, effort and money dwelling on these errors helps Bitcoin.

Principle is a funny thing. you either get it or you dont.

Bruce

I volunteered to help Bitcoin not chase skeletons.

rizz

Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

The thing is with this:  do you realize you are asking me to take my own personal free time away from my job, work and family to pursue something that I don't believe in?

Why would that be on me any more than it is on you?

I didn't create the foundation, I wasn't involved in it during the early days like so many on this thread.

I ad absolutely nothing to do with it until earlier this year....after the problems.

It's no more mine than yours.

I have a limited amount of spare time -- I'm willing to use that time, my knowledge, connections and any abilities I have to do things which I personally think help Bitcoin:  organize conferences etc.  

I'm a volunteer.  This is what I volunteered to do and it takes tons of time.

I think it would make a lot more sense to expect me to do this if I 1) was paid or 2) had anything whatsoever to do with these issues.

For me this feels like showing up at soup kitchen:

"Hi, I'm Bruce, I want to volunteer to feed the homeless people."

"Screw you, the guy who fed the homeless people three people before you who you never met wasted the money on donuts.  We already know he wasted the money.  Forget the food, get down in the basement and go through the file cabinet and audit for more details."

No. quite the opposite.

I'm trying to NOT ask for your time.
(ok, To Be Fair, a SMALL amount of your time is probably inevitable, but..)

You dont seem to be reading "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."
Also, you dont seem to read, as I am, that general consensus seems to want (or not strongly object to) an audit, (or other independent investigation)
Good starting point, which may afford you some credit to continue TBF.

I see it more like this, if we are sidetracked again,

"Hi, im Bruce, I want to volunteer to feed the homeless people."

"Ok, Thanks for volunteering," replied the echo "but the homeless dont trust "This Big Food" cafe any more, unfortunately, as the last chefs poisoned the hobo's dinner.
However, if you conducted an appraisal of the old ingredient's while you assemble a new ingredient list, the hobo's may see why they got ill, and be more assured it wont happen again"

"But I came to cook" cries Bruce "I poisoned no one, I wasn't here. I cant cook AND conduct an appraisal of past ingredient's. People will go hungry."

"I understand Bruce" echoed the echo "if you invite the hobo's to organise/conduct the appraisal, and ask any ex chefs who would like to contribute financially, then maybe YOU could start to clean the kitchen. Given time, when the hobos see how clean the kitchen is, and they compare ingredients, when they smell the food cooking, when they...."

"No" says bruce "thats a waste of time. There hobo's crist sake. They can take it or leave it"


I cant explain my view more clearly than I have till now.
It may well be an irrelevant/undesired view, but I thought it was/is clear. now.
Watching.

[BruceFenton]

Thanks, heading in the right direction.

Current monthly expenses? Would probably help if you had the actual figures handy [perhaps posted?] -- wording like 'I'm guessing' and 'about' doesn't inspire confidence.

Current monthly expenses are approximately $8/k a month down 94% from the peak under previous admin of $150k/ mo.  

The financials are posted every month.  I estimate because something like total outstanding bills paid since I volunteered is not a single line item.  I'd have to add up each month.  Anyone can do that based on the financials. I have only limited time & try to answer as much as I can.  

[QuestionAuthority]

Types of Nonprofits

There are different types of nonprofits, which fall under different sections of the IRS tax code. A foundation differs from a social welfare charity, in that a foundation is a 501c(3). Under section 501c(3) of the tax code contributions are tax deductible, whereas a 501c(4) contributions are not tax deductible, because these organizations engage in legislative lobbying and political campaigns.

Accounting Basics for Nonprofits

A nonprofit produces a statement of financial activities that states the expenses and income of the nonprofit for a certain period. The statement of financial position is a statement that shows the nonprofit's assets, liabilities and change in net assets during the year. Assets are segregated between unrestricted, temporarily restricted and permanently restricted net asset classes. Unrestricted assets have no use restrictions, whereas temporarily restricted assets have a specific purpose and/or time period provision. However, permanently restricted assets must be spent in line with the donor's wishes. In order for a registered 501c(3) to maintain its tax-exempt status, the organization cannot engage in certain political activities and it must retain earned income for the uses specified in its bylaws.

Chances are TBF has already lost its non-profit status. And please, don't insult anyone's intelligence by saying something ridiculous like, "but that was Timmy - not me. Timmy's not here anymore so we don't have to worry about the laws Timmy violated."

An international foundation will need millions and millions of dollars in donated funds to be anywhere near viable. Your current $30,000 in revenue for a nonprofit is laughable. I'm a member of a car club with 28 members that shows our cars in events like Hot August Nights in Reno every year and we have more than $30,000 in our club coffers. Do you actually expect anyone to donate the millions of dollars necessary to make the "new and improved" TBF a viable organization?

[Makingsure]

Types of Nonprofits

There are different types of nonprofits, which fall under different sections of the IRS tax code. A foundation differs from a social welfare charity, in that a foundation is a 501c(3). Under section 501c(3) of the tax code contributions are tax deductible, whereas a 501c(4) contributions are not tax deductible, because these organizations engage in legislative lobbying and political campaigns.

Accounting Basics for Nonprofits

A nonprofit produces a statement of financial activities that states the expenses and income of the nonprofit for a certain period. The statement of financial position is a statement that shows the nonprofit's assets, liabilities and change in net assets during the year. Assets are segregated between unrestricted, temporarily restricted and permanently restricted net asset classes. Unrestricted assets have no use restrictions, whereas temporarily restricted assets have a specific purpose and/or time period provision. However, permanently restricted assets must be spent in line with the donor's wishes. In order for a registered 501c(3) to maintain its tax-exempt status, the organization cannot engage in certain political activities and it must retain earned income for the uses specified in its bylaws.

Chances are TBF has already lost its non-profit status. And please, don't insult anyone's intelligence by saying something ridiculous like, "but that was Timmy - not me. Timmy's not here anymore so we don't have to worry about the laws Timmy violated."

An international foundation will need millions and millions of dollars in donated funds to be anywhere near viable. Your current $30,000 in revenue for a nonprofit is laughable. I'm a member of a car club with 28 members that shows our cars in events like Hot August Nights in Reno every year and we have more than $30,000 in our club coffers. Do you actually expect anyone to donate the millions of dollars necessary to make the "new and improved" TBF a viable organization?

agreed.
1; you beat around the bush, bruce, for a week (more) about those numbers and now we see why. the foundation is done, broke, over
2; you expect the community to lend their support (their btc) to a foundation that not only screwed them already but even promotes ponzis (bcs anyone?)   
3; your not willing to do anything the community asks, only to continue what your already doing , which as a community we fell has ALREADY misrepresented us.
flogging a dead horse here bruce, ONLY way to save it is too try claw back some of that gross spending . and u wont do that either.
RIP TBF.

[tomothy]

I may have misunderstood; but are you receiving ~$30k/donations per month? I wasn't sure what the average incoming amount of money is. $30k isn't a substantial amount if it's all you have left and nothing really incoming; but if you have nothing coming in, you could buy mining hardware, hopefully at a discounted price and use that to generate positive cash flow. Sure you'd have to disclose mining income but that money could then be used to manage TBF. If you were buying Antminer S7's you could probably buy about 20 and generate $30 per machine so $600/day before expenses approximately? This would have you bringing in 18k monthly or so right? This is assuming you generate ~$30 in bitcoin daily?

The upside to something like this is TBF actually becomes a part of the Bitcoin network and is contributing hashpower instead of just being a figurehead. You would have the symbolic importance of deciding what chain/fork to mine and what pool. You could then operate a TBF pool where fees are considered donations. I mean you could always see if one of the larger entities would essentially lease equipment to you if that made more sense. But again, it kinda all depends on what monthly incoming cashflow looks like.

[BruceFenton]

rizz

Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

You dont seem to be reading "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."
Also, you dont seem to read, as I am, that general consensus seems to want (or not strongly object to) an audit, (or other independent investigation)
Good starting point, which may afford you some credit to continue TBF.

Analogies are sometimes as useful as a cassette tape pizza covered in bleach.  So I won't delve further into the soup kitchen example other than to say I have a different take.

The line "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

Is exactly what I've said all along.   I'm not clear from your post if you are asking me to say this or want time to say more.  If this is what you want, I fully agree ....I think it was in the OP.

I know some consensus here and on Reddit calls for an audit -- from members I have not seen as much...really only a handful of members who want one and almost none who want one bad enough to volunteer.

It's a lot like the calls for transparency and elections.  Months back I sat down with a large corporate member CEO and proudly exlaimed "We are now fully transparent and have a 100% elected board."

He replied "So what.  How does that help Bitcoin?"

Proving for sure that the losses are as bad as we think I think would be another shoulder shrug.

[tomothy]

District of Columbia
Audit Required: No state law requirement.
Statute and Description: D.C. Code § 29


He replied "So what.  How does that help Bitcoin?"

Honestly, This ^, is really all that matters and is important but it's recognized that not having an audit looks a bit sketchy. However it doesn't necessarily matter. If TBF takes solid steps to show relevancy and has good deliverables who's going to complain about some crap that happened in the past? It's like your on probation for bad behavior but then have a steller month making lots of ripples which leads to an increase in bits and pieces of revenue. Results speak for themselves and if there are none /shrug you look to see what's left BBTC.

[BruceFenton]

Chances are TBF has already lost its non-profit status. And please, don't insult anyone's intelligence by saying something ridiculous like, "but that was Timmy - not me. Timmy's not here anymore so we don't have to worry about the laws Timmy violated."

An international foundation will need millions and millions of dollars in donated funds to be anywhere near viable. Your current $30,000 in revenue for a nonprofit is laughable. I'm a member of a car club with 28 members that shows our cars in events like Hot August Nights in Reno every year and we have more than $30,000 in our club coffers. Do you actually expect anyone to donate the millions of dollars necessary to make the "new and improved" TBF a viable organization?

1) The foundation didn't even have approved non-profit status until after I volunteered.

2). Again you are claiming laws were violated.  What specific laws?  By whom specifically?  What evidence do you have?  Bad decisions and overspending are not against the law.

3). Are you an attorney?  The excerpt above is referring to "earned income" --  I searched for the site you got it from:  http://smallbusiness.chron.com/difference-between-income-revenue-nonprofit-25352.html

Why did you remove the portion above your excerpt that defines what income is?   (Income for non profits is after expenses)

4) Foundation is not a 501c3 anyway it's a 501c6

5) Yep, $30,000 isn't much money - it would be even less had I not donated $10,000 personally last week.  

Not sure if you are expecting me to defend this or something, I'm volunteering to do what I can with what there is.

6) When did I ever say that I was attempting to raise "millions of dollars"?   I'd like to have memberships and donations in the $100,000 range.   I put in $10k, Bobby put in $10k and Brock pledged $10k...so that leaves $70,000 needed to fund all operations and current staff for a full year and also provides enough money to host two DevCore events and still have thousands excess for additional items.

I'd like to get 7 Gold members in the $10,000 category.  In 2014 there were nearly a dozen who paid that or more and total membership revenue was over $300,000.   If the foundation had that or even half of that then they'd have a decent amount extra to explore other projects.

[BruceFenton]

1; you beat around the bush, bruce, for a week (more) about those numbers and now we see why. the foundation is done, broke, over
2; you expect the community to lend their support (their btc) to a foundation that not only screwed them already but even promotes ponzis (bcs anyone?)   
3; your not willing to do anything the community asks, only to continue what your already doing , which as a community we fell has ALREADY misrepresented us.
flogging a dead horse here bruce, ONLY way to save it is too try claw back some of that gross spending . and u wont do that either.

1-  Definitely didn't beat around the bush.  The financials were fully released publicly before this thread ever started.  I then have taken a ton of time to try to answer every question on here.

2-  I only ask people to judge others by actions actually taken by them...not others who they came in to clean up after.   I stand by my own actions.   The corporate documents for Bitcoin Foundation have no ability to do anything....they are just pieces of paper.  Only human beings can take actual actions.

3-  Sure I am.  I spent time releasing lots of data, financials, board minutes because the number one request when I volunteered was transparency.  This audit thing is brand new and I am willing to do it and am discussing it right now here.  I just don't have the time personally to do it alone so if someone wants to volunteer I'll support them.

Claw back what spending?  I've cut costs by 94% from the peak and volunteered for a previously paid job.  Wheat additional do you suggest?

[BruceFenton]

No one is asking you to spend your money. The foundation has $30k, according to your guesstimate. Spend that.
Regarding "what [ I] think a more details audit could reveal":
Needs to happen to discover/discount wrongdoing by previous board members, before any litigation could take place. @-$8k/mo, you barely got enough scratch to last through the winter. You need that money.

The foundation may have liabilities you're not aware of. A thorough audit will bring those to light. Better learn of those now, so this thing could be dissolved gracefully.

Re. "I sat down with a large corporate member CEO [...] He replied "So what.  How does that help Bitcoin?": Who, what company? Sounds like a Danny Brewster type of a CEO.

Well $10k of the 30 was donated by me - so it was my money.  As a donor I want to have the money go to something like DevCore or a WeUseCoins video or an education or communications effort or something else directly and immediately beneficial to Bitcoin.

No, not a Danny Brewster at all, he would not be allowed to be a member. 

From what I've seen the largest members really just want a clear answer to "How do you help Bitcoin and what are you doing?"   We spent a good amount of time for six months on a combination of board conflict, transparency initiatives and discussing things like bylaws.  The most useful thing we did during that time was the DevCore meeting.

What liabilities would the foundation have?  There are accountants, bookeepers etc. remember.  Wouldn't someone have sent an invoice, letters notice, anything in 8 months?

[BruceFenton]

He replied "So what.  How does that help Bitcoin?"

Honestly, This ^, is really all that matters and is important but it's recognized that not having an audit looks a bit sketchy. However it doesn't necessarily matter. If TBF takes solid steps to show relevancy and has good deliverables who's going to complain about some crap that happened in the past? It's like your on probation for bad behavior but then have a steller month making lots of ripples which leads to an increase in bits and pieces of revenue. Results speak for themselves and if there are none /shrug you look to see what's left BBTC.

If people feel it's sketchy that is their right.

What I'm saying is basically this:

Here is the mission statement.  Here are all the board minutes and the details of every single bit of spending I've made or been involved with. Here are the tax returns.  Here is what the foundation is spending, here's what is planned to spend and here is what it's being spent on.  Here is also the previous tax return and a breakdown of how the previous admin went through so much money and here is how I wont repeat those mistakes.... by running a much more lean organization.

If this makes sense we'd love support form last or new members.

If someone replies to this "Not good enough Fenton, I want even more details on the specifics of the bad spending decisions made by the people no longer there."

My reply is "Okay, that is alright and I support that but I don't have personal time for that digging and would rather have my personal money go to things like DevCore, I'll open the books and help anyone who wants to volunteer or pay."

That's the most reasonable thing I can think of.

[QuestionAuthority]

Bruce you really seem to be trying to help so I'll change the focus.

I've already stated that you are in for a rough patch while attempting to gain new members or donation funding but let's say people are going to be willing to open their wallets for TBF once again and you end up with at least $100k a year to operate.

What are you planning on doing to help Bitcoin beyond running an info website? Grassroots campaigning? Mailers? Flyers?

What demographic do you believe will benefit the most from your limited resources?

In what countries and languages will you be actively promoting Bitcoin? Are those countries going to be your primary focus for membership?

Will you attempt to inform and educate political leadership as Andreas has done or will your focus be primarily the end user? Do you see as one of the foundations goals to be educating business interests in the acceptance of Bitcoin?

How many of these limited staff will be actively pursuing these goals and how many will simply be support staff?

Will you have a brick n mortar office? If not, how will you're members be able to reach you? Have you thought about a monthly membership meeting allowing members to join a Skype call to get progress updates and offer suggestions?

As you can see from the questions above you will require far more than a $100k a year to perform even the most rudimentary functions of a foundation promoting a worldwide currency. If you're just looking to run an information website why don't you talk to theymos and see if he can help sponsor a professionally done website with the money you have and get rid of all the unnecessary staff.

[BruceFenton]

>Well $10k of the 30 was donated by me - so it was my money.
Well no, you donated it to the foundation, so it's foundation's money. Where do you suppose the rest of that 30k came from, Santa?

Right.  That's why I said "WAS my money", pretty clear.   Another $10k came from Bobby Lee.  The board and I think the best representation of members is to use funds to keep the organization operating and to focus on things which benefit Bitcoin. As with any non-profit, donors have the right to specify where they wish their donations to go.

>No, not a Danny Brewster
OK, not Brewster. Leaving us with roughly 7 billion people. I asked "Who, what company?"
A direct answer would do.

I don't post private conversations with people on social media, sorry.  He might not want to be quoted, not least of which because of the tendency on here to have things painted in the worst possible light or to jump to incorrect assumptions.  Most importantly, when we spoke it was a private conversation and he was never told or agreed to have that privacy breeched.

Look, I get the desire to see the worst in everyone.  Some trust might also make sense in interactions.  Have I every lied to you or lied about something you know of?  Do I have a reputation for lying?

I'm saying that a prominent Bitcoin CEO said this simple statement.  I also think it represents a lot of members.  If you think I made that up to bolster my point because members really do care about these things but I secretly don't want to do what they care about....then there isn't much I can do on that

>From what I've seen the largest members really just want
As in dues-paying members, as in monthly income? How much do they contribute, in $$$?

Last year it was $300k or so.  I have not fundraised since I joined so incoming revenue since April is only about $10,000


>We spent a good amount of time for six months on
Point? Bragging about spending 6@$8k/mo $48k to accomplish zilch? Nice.

Not bragging. I said a "good amount of time"---- IMHO too much time.

Do you consider spending time on elections, transparency and releasing info was accomplishing "zilch"?  If so, you are exactly proving my point -- transparency was, by far, the number one request from people....and the biggest time drain.   Maybe you were one of those people calling for transparency.

Was it a waste of time?  I think the time could have better been spent elsewhere.  


>What liabilities would the foundation have?
Hell if I know, and, with the cavalier "oh, i doubt they did anything wrong" attitude you have to corporate finance, I doubt you do. That's what audits are for.

Not at all cavalier.  I base the statement that I think there are no unknown liabilities on many, many hours reviewing the finances, the fact that I have absolutely not received any indication from anyone: a collection agency, debtor, law firm, random anonymous tipster....no one at all has even once indicated that there are any outstanding debts to them.   If someone was owned money wouldn't they at least attempt to contact me?  Im not hard to locate.  I have not even heard the slightest speculation of what such debts could be for....and never even had this question until today.  

It's essentially people on BitcoinTalk saying "I randomly speculate that the foundation owes someone money:  not sure, who, not sure, why and not sure for what and I have no evidence whatsoever of this and have never heard anyone claim that they are owned money...but it's my hunch."

If I balance this with many hours of reviewing the books, zero requests for any unpaid debt and other experience and you consider that cavalier then okay.

(Side note, there is one minor outstanding bill for approx $1500 from an overseas law firm which was disputed because I have no evidence that the foundation agreed to pay it or received any services for the bill)

P.S. You mentioned TBF didn't file for nonprofit status til you came on board. Which begs the question... how did it file?

Bitcoin Foundation filed as a self certified 501c6.  The certification came in after I volunteered.  This is a common practice given the time it can take for approvals. Organizations in the US can file under categories that are pending approval provided they comply with the rules of that category.  If they would have been denied that certification then they would have had to re-file the taxes for 2013 and 2014.

[rizzlarolla]

rizz

Even if you still add, (due to lack of finance) "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

You dont seem to be reading "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."
Also, you dont seem to read, as I am, that general consensus seems to want (or not strongly object to) an audit, (or other independent investigation)
Good starting point, which may afford you some credit to continue TBF.

Analogies are sometimes as useful as a cassette tape pizza covered in bleach.  So I won't delve further into the soup kitchen example other than to say I have a different take.

The line "provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

Is exactly what I've said all along.   I'm not clear from your post if you are asking me to say this or want time to say more.  If this is what you want, I fully agree ....I think it was in the OP.

I know some consensus here and on Reddit calls for an audit -- from members I have not seen as much...really only a handful of members who want one and almost none who want one bad enough to volunteer.

It's a lot like the calls for transparency and elections.  Months back I sat down with a large corporate member CEO and proudly exlaimed "We are now fully transparent and have a 100% elected board."

He replied "So what.  How does that help Bitcoin?"

Proving for sure that the losses are as bad as we think I think would be another shoulder shrug.

Youv'e lost me. you started the analogies . enough already

Ok, now I look again, OP says
"I'm happy to support an audit provided someone can lead it and do the work involved and/ or support the costs of one."

So actually, we are close. (I wish you could stop saying "Dont see what good it can do" in the next sentence, it seem to detract from the sentiment.)

You have had feedback. Now get pro-active, or not.

You are the only person going to move this forward.
I suggested already you reach out to the "ridiculously wasteful and reckless spenders" (ex board) for their personal financial support in this matter.
This is where your SMALL time contribution comes in.

THEY, the "ridiculously wasteful and reckless spenders" need to, and should want to, personally pay for this audit/investigation. (If they are "offered" the chance?)

Step in Bruce Fenton....

[BruceFenton]

Bruce you really seem to be trying to help so I'll change the focus.

>>> Thanks


What are you planning on doing to help Bitcoin beyond running an info website? Grassroots campaigning? Mailers? Flyers?

>>> https://github.com/BruceFenton/bitcoinfoundationplan is the mission, this was put up for comment a couple weeks ago
Once agreed, likely next board meeting in a couple weeks, then we will make a plan to execute.

Emphasis will be placed on lean organization but high impact.


What demographic do you believe will benefit the most from your limited resources?

>>> Main thing is focusing on the three areas from the plan:  1) education, 2) increasing Bitcoin development and 3) working to propose technical alternatives to regulation.

This targets respectively 1) new users, companies, organizations, 2) aspiring developers and people who want to learn more about development 3) advocash groups, partnerships and educating elected officials about the harmful effects of regulation

Demographic that benefits is overall users and companies in Bitcoin who benefit from this mission.


In what countries and languages will you be actively promoting Bitcoin? Are those countries going to be your primary focus for membership?


>>> One difference Bitcoin Foundation has with other industry groups is international focus.  Charles Hoskinson and others have suggested building this more.  I work international so have wanted to link more organizations and MeetUps ever since I volunteered.
There are many organizations in a similar boat to the Bitcoin Foundation - some good volunteers, not much cash etc. partnering is a great idea.


Will you attempt to inform and educate political leadership as Andreas has done or will your focus be primarily the end user? Do you see as one of the foundations goals to be educating business interests in the acceptance of Bitcoin?

>>>
Definitely a core part of the mission is to educate elected officials, not just in the US but globally.


How many of these limited staff will be actively pursuing these goals and how many will simply be support staff?


>>> We need to rely on volunteers and leverage.  Our speakers bureau page has great folks like Roger Ver, Erik Voorhees and Andreas (although a critic of the foundation)

Marco Santori is voluntary Regulatory Affairs, Colin Gallagher in education etc.  with more MeetUps and members who want to do something a lot can be done with little money.



Will you have a brick n mortar office? If not, how will you're members be able to reach you? Have you thought about a monthly membership meeting allowing members to join a Skype call to get progress updates and offer suggestions?

>>> No brick and mortar...I think it's a waste of money for a global digital currency...it's not as if we get foot traffic.  Fancy office just serves for ego of people often.

>>> Monthly Skype calls are an excellent idea.  One thing in the education category I've thought of is hosting a call for members with a special guest like a Linus Torvold or something.  It's very low cost, easy lift yet high impact.

As you can see from the questions above you will require far more than a $100k a year to perform even the most rudimentary functions of a foundation promoting a worldwide currency. If you're just looking to run an information website why don't you talk to theymos and see if he can help sponsor a professionally done website with the money you have and get rid of all the unnecessary staff.


>>> A lot can be done for not too much money.  100k is a benchmark to say "we have one year of runway" and breathing room to do more cool things.   It would be great to raise a lot more and we can determine best use at that point.   I'm different than the other people who were involved -- I'm frugal and think that even with $10 million I would not be spending $700k on a conference or getting a fancy London office.

[QuestionAuthority]

Those are all lofty goals but I still think you have caviar tastes on a pizza budget. If you can pull it off more power to you (ha ha, I just realized that's one of the things I'm worried about - power concentration).

At least you shouldn't be capable of squandering millions in donated funds with no more than I see you capable of collecting. Bitcoin is about money not a free operating system for the underpriviledged or feeding the homeless. Greed, avarice, crime, status, power and competition revolve around money and have always been a part of Bitcoin. I would love to believe you and those you surround yourself with only have the most altruistic motivations in your heart but I seriously doubt it. Good luck to you.

[BruceFenton]

I have no desire to see the worst in everyone. On the other hand, when dealing with The Bitcoin Foundation, in light of its past history, it would be pretty foolish to do anything but.

Judge actual people versus a piece of paper - that's all I ask


Last year it was $300k or so.  I have not fundraised since I joined so incoming revenue since April is only about $10,000

<<<. I don't understand. Are we talking ex-members? What made you put an end to fundraising? Are you planning to start again? When?

In 2014 it was 300k revenue from memberships.

I haven't done new fundraising for a few reasons:
- I wanted a compelling case that I felt was worth putting my own money into.
- I wanted to get costs lowered and old obligations cleaned up
- we had some board turmoil and unclear mission
- I was also in a major car accident and pressed for time with other obligations


I only consider working towards transparency a waste of time when it nets no transparency, as is the case here. In other words, I consider thumb-twiddling and calling it "transparency" a waste of time.
Where's the product?

Not sure what you mean by transparency that I haven't done.  Since I volunteered I've had all the tax returns released, monthly financials on all spending and all board minutes released.   I've also tried hard to be available to answer any questions, provide anything people ask for that is possible in the time I have.

What else would you like to see?


After spending "many hours of reviewing the books," there's no product. Claiming to work towards financial transparency without publishing an independent audit report is meaningless.

This is talking about two different things.  I was responding to the question about unknown debts someone speculated that the foundation has.  Just think about this for a second:  why would an organization need an audit to prove that it doesn't have debts that no one is asking about and no one is claiming are owed to them?



Bitcoin Foundation filed as a self certified 501c6.  The certification came in after I volunteered.  This is a common practice given the time it can take for approvals. Organizations in the US can file under categories that are pending approval provided they comply with the rules of that category.  If they would have been denied that certification then they would have had to re-file the taxes for 2013 and 2014.

I didn't make myself clear: You filed as self-certified 501c6. Up to this point, what was The Bitcoin Foundation's status? Was it a shoebox operation?

I explained it above - they filed as a 501c6 but the certification came after I volunteered.  This is not only common it's the way that almost every new non-profit files.  If non-profits waited for the certification in some cases it can take 2-3 years to get a reply.  New Hampshire Free State Project has waited something like 6 years for example.

Some organization types are approved quickly.  Bitcoin Foundation is approved to do lobbying and is a trade group - so that, as well as having the word "Bitcoin" in the name took a while for them to get approved.  Churches and others can take many years and they typically file as the applied organization type.

[BruceFenton]

Those are all lofty goals but I still think you have caviar tastes on a pizza budget. If you can pull it off more power to you (ha ha, I just realized that's one of the things I'm worried about - power concentration).

 Good luck to you.

In the early days the Bitcoin Foundation tried to be all things to all people and expectations were set very high, yet we're very disappointing.

Right now it's a dozen guys and a couple girls who are volunteering free time to help Bitcoin:  some educational materials,  a couple nice, high quality events, some member calls, communications as well as some public speaking and outreach to elected officials...that's it. 

The bar is pretty low.  If we can avoid being associated with people who steal or go to jail.  The spending I approve is extremely low and reasonable and we do some helpful things then that's a small victory hopefully.

Step one is to have less people hate the current team because of the actions of the past team.  Step two is for people to say "hmm, that DevCore event, paper, conference call or letter to the member of Parliment was good for Bitcoin"

Not trying to change the world...just make some lemonade from lemons and clean up an organization with some black marks.

That's all.

The goal today isn't to do some crazy lofty thing...I think it's more like delicious pizza on a cheap pizza budget. 

[bargainbin]

Mining is an industry.
Payment processors are an industry.
Gambling is an industry.
Even whoring is an industry.
But not Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is not an industry. It's still A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System. No thanks, may I add, to douches like you.

Lots of people disagree & would call the miners, exchanges, wallets etc part of the same industry.

But either way -- let's say you are right, there is no such thing as the Bitcoin industry -- you must have some term you use to describe industry conferences, events, meetings, this board etc.

But even if not--   Fact is that there are now and will be groups in this ...space...whatever you want to call it.

Those groups exist, they are here and they are not going anywhere.

You can support CoinCenter or DCC or Bitcoin Foundation or Bitcoin Association or whatever -- or none.   But they will be doing whatever activity they focus on:  asking for more Bitcoin laws, fighting against more Bitcoin laws, holding events, speaking to the press etc. whether you participate or not.

Seems sensible to align with a group whose mission you support.

So let me get you straight: you are rebooting The Bitcoin Foundation because you can't get along with CoinCenter, another bitcoin foundation?
And isn't the Bitcoin Association already you?
How is it that you fail to see that The Bitcoin Foundation has nothing to do with representing Bitcoin as a whole, when your explicit purpose is to counter the other Bitcoin foundations?

[Gleb Gamow]

Chances are TBF has already lost its non-profit status. And please, don't insult anyone's intelligence by saying something ridiculous like, "but that was Timmy - not me. Timmy's not here anymore so we don't have to worry about the laws Timmy violated."

An international foundation will need millions and millions of dollars in donated funds to be anywhere near viable. Your current $30,000 in revenue for a nonprofit is laughable. I'm a member of a car club with 28 members that shows our cars in events like Hot August Nights in Reno every year and we have more than $30,000 in our club coffers. Do you actually expect anyone to donate the millions of dollars necessary to make the "new and improved" TBF a viable organization?

1) The foundation didn't even have approved non-profit status until after I volunteered.

2). Again you are claiming laws were violated.  What specific laws?  By whom specifically?  What evidence do you have?  Bad decisions and overspending are not against the law.

3). Are you an attorney?  The excerpt above is referring to "earned income" --  I searched for the site you got it from:  http://smallbusiness.chron.com/difference-between-income-revenue-nonprofit-25352.html

Why did you remove the portion above your excerpt that defines what income is?   (Income for non profits is after expenses)

4) Foundation is not a 501c3 anyway it's a 501c6

5) Yep, $30,000 isn't much money - it would be even less had I not donated $10,000 personally last week.  

Not sure if you are expecting me to defend this or something, I'm volunteering to do what I can with what there is.

6) When did I ever say that I was attempting to raise "millions of dollars"?   I'd like to have memberships and donations in the $100,000 range.   I put in $10k, Bobby put in $10k and Brock pledged $10k...so that leaves $70,000 needed to fund all operations and current staff for a full year and also provides enough money to host two DevCore events and still have thousands excess for additional items.

I'd like to get 7 Gold members in the $10,000 category.  In 2014 there were nearly a dozen who paid that or more and total membership revenue was over $300,000.   If the foundation had that or even half of that then they'd have a decent amount extra to explore other projects.

Seems reasonable.

For others up to an exploratory as to what a 501c6 consists of: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopick03.pdf

[Gleb Gamow]

Though 99% here won't understand why, a gift for Bruce: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1FVwJ6NX1g&feature=youtu.be&t=1312 

[BruceFenton]

So let me get you straight: you are rebooting The Bitcoin Foundation because you can't get along with CoinCenter, another bitcoin foundation?
And isn't the Bitcoin Association already you?
How is it that you fail to see that The Bitcoin Foundation has nothing to do with representing Bitcoin as a whole, when your explicit purpose is to counter the other Bitcoin foundations?

Nope, foundation existed before Coincenter and others, we get along fine, Jerry is a smart and well respected guy, we just have very different views on regulation.

Bitcoin Association is run by Greg Simon now.

The explicit purpose is not at all to "counter other foundations" - the purpose is in the Mission Statement -- have you had a chance to read it?

I'd suggest people read it.  If they agree then great, if not then they can support an organization the do agree with or none at all.

[BruceFenton]

Judge actual people versus a piece of paper - that's all I ask

Bruce, you're probably a great guy, but I don't know you. The only thing I have to go by is the foundation you're fronting. A foundation which has brought us, both before & during the (6 months?) with you at the helm, drama & embarrassment.
Half of the board members left, the hardy ones stayed. So nothing like a fresh slate.

Things gonna be different this time tho, because ...just trust me bro.

[...] I haven't done new fundraising for a few reasons:
- I wanted a compelling case that I felt was worth putting my own money into.

Some are still less than compelled. Surprisingly.

- I wanted to get costs lowered and old obligations cleaned up

Synopsis? Like not paying core devs any more? Six months well spent. what else? Something about obligations? Be specific.

- we had some board turmoil and unclear mission

Boy howdy!

- I was also in a major car accident and pressed for time with other obligations

Sorry 'bout that. Perhaps a second-in-command might have helped? Hierarchical structures, how do they even work...

I only consider working towards transparency a waste of time when it nets no transparency, as is the case here. In other words, I consider thumb-twiddling and calling it "transparency" a waste of time.
Where's the product?

Not sure what you mean by transparency that I haven't done.  Since I volunteered I've had all the tax returns released, monthly financials on all spending and all board minutes released.   I've also tried hard to be available to answer any questions, provide anything people ask for that is possible in the time I have.

What else would you like to see?

After spending "many hours of reviewing the books," there's no product. Claiming to work towards financial transparency without publishing an independent audit report is meaningless.

The red boldface above. Emboldened so it's a little harder, though not entirely impossible, to miss.

This is talking about two different things.  I was responding to the question about unknown debts someone speculated that the foundation has.  Just think about this for a second:  why would an organization need an audit to prove that it doesn't have debts that no one is asking about and no one is claiming are owed to them?

It needs an independent audit, period.
Without an independent audit & nothing but TBF's sterling rep, I don't trust it. Nothing "Trust me and not some piece of paper" about it. We're talking about a long, sordid history, not some sticky note.

[...] Some organization types are approved quickly.  Bitcoin Foundation is approved to do lobbying and is a trade group - so that, as well as having the word "Bitcoin" in the name took a while for them to get approved.  Churches and others can take many years and they typically file as the applied organization type.[/b]

Isn't http://bitcoinassociation.org/about-us/ yours? It claims to be a nonprofit. And please, let's not follow up on 501c6 approval thing. We both know it's just grasping at straws.

This thread is getting three levels deep so harder to follow & take time with back & forth.

1) organizational structure and people are two different things - yes, I'm not asking people to trust me -- I'm asking them to judge me on the actions I've actually taken in my life --- crazy concept I know - but it's based on a spotless record for over 20 years in business and disclosing every action that I take as a volunteer - I've been open and honest in all things and have not given anyone a reason to distrust me -- if people don't trust me because they didn't trust the people I volunteered to clean up after then there isn't anything I can do about that other than continue to act ethically and transparently -- I'm saying here is the plan, here is exactly what spending I've approved and would approve in the future -- if the assumption is that I'm committing fraud on that and risking my reputation and career (for no gain) then there isn't much I can do on that -- this entire discussion about an audit suddenly being some "must have" is brand new - there was no or virtually no discussion of an audit until a week or so ago.
ALSO - the audit this thread has been discussing is mostly focused on past actions - how does that relate to saying to "trust me" now?  What would the audit possibly show that has any bearing on me today?   If it shows that previous admin was the greatest people on earth or were crooks -- it still doesn't affect today one bit.  I've always supported open records for anything I've been involved with

2) sure, second in command would have helped, we do have a COO - the car accident was 3 weeks after I volunteered - I didn't have such a volunteer then, if you know someone who'd fit, let us know -- no need to be sarastic about it

3) you didn't answer my question about why foundation would need an audit to prove that we don't owe money when no one has asked or accused the foundation of owing them money - you just answer "need an audit, period" -- okay....to what end exactly?   You still haven't clearly stated what you want the audit to show and cover -- what type of audit do you want?  Tax audit? GAAP?  

4) when I said to focus on people not pieces of paper--- the paper I was referring to wasn't financial records it's the corporate structure / documents -- saying you "don't trust the foundation" is not as logical as talking about a person or people -- there is no person called "Bitcoin Foundation" an organization is incapable of lying, telling the truth or anything else -- it's just a document -- PEOPLE are who actually make decisions and can be trusted or not -- I'm only asking for others to base opinions on the actual actions of the people they judge --  

5) I co-founded Bitcoin Association, stepped down when I volunteered at Bitcoin Foundation  Greg Simon is the president of it now --- not sure what you are getting at with the 501c6 comment -- I've explained how they filed a couple of times -- for Bitcoin Association we are now talking about an entirely different organization -- Bitcoin Association has no tax status in the US, did not file or apply for tax status and did not solicit or accept donations

[siameze]

[...]
1) organizational structure and people are two different things - yes, I'm not asking people to trust me -- I'm asking them to judge me on the actions I've actually taken in my life --- crazy concept I know - but it's based on a spotless record for over 20 years in business and disclosing every action that I take as a volunteer - I've been open and honest in all things and have not given anyone a reason to distrust me -- if people don't trust me because they didn't trust the people I volunteered to clean up after then there isn't anything I can do about that other than continue to act ethically and transparently -- I'm saying here is the plan, here is exactly what spending I've approved and would approve in the future -- if the assumption is that I'm committing fraud on that and risking my reputation and career (for no gain) then there isn't much I can do on that -- this entire discussion about an audit suddenly being some "must have" is brand new - there was no or virtually no discussion of an audit until a week or so ago.
ALSO - the audit this thread has been discussing is mostly focused on past actions - how does that relate to saying to "trust me" now?  What would the audit possibly show that has any bearing on me today?   If it shows that previous admin was the greatest people on earth or were crooks -- it still doesn't affect today one bit.  I've always supported open records for anything I've been involved with

Bruce, try to see this from my perspective. You mention "20 years in business," but for someone who started the "first full-service investment firm to use the Internet," (your company website is basically dead, according to Alexa) your web presence is nearly nil. Of course, I'm not counting the various self-promo sites like like http://brucefenton.com/bruce-fenton-biography/, or spoon-fed blurbs by "cryptojournalists."

To me (I do tend to err on the dark side), you're just another Anon. Or Craig Steven Wright, whichever. This is Bitcoin.

The Bitcoin Foundation, OTOH, it I do know. Its history is there for everyone to see. Here: http://www.coindesk.com/companies/bitcoin-foundation/

2) sure, second in command would have helped, we do have a COO - the car accident was 3 weeks after I volunteered - I didn't have such a volunteer then, if you know someone who'd fit, let us know -- no need to be sarastic about it

Out of the 9 months you've chaired TBF, roughly how many were spent convalescing?

3) you didn't answer my question about why foundation would need an audit to prove that we don't owe money when no one has asked or accused the foundation of owing them money - you just answer "need an audit, period" -- okay....to what end exactly?   You still haven't clearly stated what you want the audit to show and cover -- what type of audit do you want?  Tax audit? GAAP?

Bruce, what do you mean by "financial transparency"? "I'm starting with roughly $30k, take my word for it. There was no misappropriation by former board members, take my word for it." Something like that?
You plan to be "transparent" without independent audits? How would that work, exactly?

4) when I said to focus on people not pieces of paper--- the paper I was referring to wasn't financial records it's the corporate structure / documents -- saying you "don't trust the foundation" is not as logical as talking about a person or people -- there is no person called "Bitcoin Foundation" an organization is incapable of lying, telling the truth or anything else -- it's just a document -- PEOPLE are who actually make decisions and can be trusted or not -- I'm only asking for others to base opinions on the actual actions of the people they judge --

Again, I don't know you. I do know Chairman Pierce. Ignoring the seedier allegations, his past business dealings fail to reassure.
"[...] The same year, Alan Debonneville, Pierce’s co-founder, sued him in a California District Court for fraud. According to court documents, Debonneville alleged that Pierce had stolen stock and misappropriated about $200,000 in company money to pay for default judgments against him and Collins-Rector. Pierce settled the lawsuit in 2008 for an undisclosed amount, according to documents."

5) I co-founded Bitcoin Association, stepped down when I volunteered at Bitcoin Foundation  Greg Simon is the president of it now --- not sure what you are getting at with the 501c6 comment -- I've explained how they filed a couple of times -- for Bitcoin Association we are now talking about an entirely different organization -- Bitcoin Association has no tax status in the US, did not file or apply for tax status and did not solicit or accept donations

Nothing to stop the new foundation (assuming another is needed) from self-filing 501c6 & operating. The Bitcoin Foundation did just that for -- how many years?

That said, in my own small way I'm helping TBF stay relevant: by bumping this thread.
It was off the front page

Maybe he can garner support on reddit. They'll get behind anything if you throw around some buzzwords.

[BruceFenton]

You are priceless.  "Oh no!  Fenton owns a website with a low Alexa ranking!"

C'mon now -- do you really think it productive to examine every minor detail of my life and assume the worst?

It's really clear that you are trying every possible thing to attack me, my record, anything related to it.


Take a look at this super long thread--  take a look at the many, many accusations, personal attacks etc.

Clearly people have spent untold hours and hours digging for dirt.  At the end of it all-- what do we have?  

What is the main accusation against me after all this?  Low Alexa ranking on one (actually dozens) of website I own?   Volunteered to try a turnaround of an organization that wasted money?  Seriously -- think about it.

I'm a dude who likes Bitcoin and wants to help out by running a couple developer events and some education / engagement -- as a volunteer.   That's it


(If you insist on discussing the low traffic website:  as you know the Internet changed a hell of a lot in the 21 years since Atlantic Financial was founded - over time the firm and my practice moved towards focusing on a tiny number of very large clients - I sold off and divested much of the old legacy retail ops and didn't focus on the site for years because it is not longer very relevant to what we do - yeah, the website is outdated - it doesn't have any relevance on the truth of the statement that it was the first full service firm back in 1994.

Now I know what happens next, so I'll save the time:  some Bitcoin Sherlock will go back to whois/ICANN records and --- rather than simply asking me the question --- will post "Liar!  Scum!!  Atlanticfinacial.com wasn't registered until two years later in 1996!  #{%!?€! no way you were around in 1994."
Yep, previous domain was AF.com I sold it to American Freighways who then sold it to American Friends when they got acquired.   Then someone will go back and say "Lies!  AF.com was registered in August of 1994 not December 1994 and I'll explain that the registration was transferred from the older legacy system and so on and so on.


Look-
I came in here with intent publicly post tax return data detailing spending of the past administration for the group I volunteered to help turn around.

I've done my best to painstakingly answer every possible question -- I think it's been hashed out quite a bit now.


Running low on time for this --

So:

- if anyone has comments on the mission statement -- great

- If anyone wants to organize an audit, sponsor one or run point on it, great, you are welcome to

- If anyone has any specific accusation of criminal wrongdoing of any previous member and provides evidence/ information leading to the recovery of funds then I will provide a bounty of at least 10%

- if anyone has any questions or concerns about anything I have ever done or said in my life feel free to bring them up  -- it's probably more effective to simply ask me directly via email as there have been pretty simple explanations for any questions

- if anyone wants to volunteer to help, great

- if anyone wants to create or support other organizations that help Bitcoin or try to help Bitcoin that's great also

[BruceFenton]

[...] Clearly people have spent untold hours and hours digging for dirt.  At the end of it all-- what do we have?  

What is the main accusation against me after all this?  Low Alexa ranking on one (actually dozens) of website I own?

Well no, Bruce. Not countless hours.
I typed "Bruce Fenton" into Google, and voila! the third result was

...or, as you've so humbly put it, "one [of] (actually dozens) of website I own."

Um yeah, that's my site and bio.   Not exactly a secret.  In fact it's published on purpose.

Hadn't really considered being humble mentioning owning dozens of sites --- domains cost about $9 each so it's sort of like someone saying they had hamburgers at Five Guys -- is that bragging of some sort?

[QuestionAuthority]

What country will you operate the new TBF in USA or UK?

Would you be willing to allow the Blockchain Alliance cooperative US government agencies to review and oversee TBF records if I contacted them and they were willing? I'm sure with the criminal history of previous members that might be interesting for them. That also might go a long way toward increased funding and membership. Considering the massive number of Bitcoin users on this forum that contacted the US government for help with such fraudsters as MtGox, BFL, Trenton Shavers ponzi, Bitcoinica, GLBSE and so on a little more oversight might make them more willing to give up some membership fees.

[BruceFenton]

What country will you operate the new TBF in USA or UK?

Would you be willing to allow the Blockchain Alliance cooperative US government agencies to review and oversee TBF records if I contacted them and they were willing? I'm sure with the criminal history of previous members that might be interesting for them. That also might go a long way toward increased funding and membership. Considering the massive number of Bitcoin users on this forum that contacted the US government for help with such fraudsters as MtGox, BFL, Trenton Shavers ponzi, Bitcoinica, GLBSE and so on a little more oversight might make them more willing to give up some membership fees.

So let me get this straight.  

You have absolutely no evidence of any criminal wrongdoing whatsoever -- you don't even have the basis of speculation for any investigation naming a specific person and law you think was broken

....you can't even name what law you think was broken or what specific person you think broke it

....but, since the foundation had Charlie Shrem and Karpeles as members

....you now want to contact the FBI, DHS, TSA, US Marshall Service and The Secret Service and ask them to investigate this organization which is now run by people who had nothing to do with past decisions and in most cases never even met, let alone worked with, the people who had criminal charges against them?

...and you, by default, want me personally --- who you and no one else no one has accused of criminal activity or even mismanagement at the foundation, to be the point person in dealing with multiple Federal law enforcement agencies....

....when you surely know that I am a vocal critic of these organizations and this specific Blockchain Alliance?

You are serious here?

(To answer, yes, as I've said many times I have no issues opening books and records to anyone)

[BruceFenton]

>You have absolutely no evidence of any criminal wrongdoing whatsoever

Well, there's all that money that's not there anymore, so there's that.

Just for shits tho: would paying your BF consultancy fees; putting your dog on salary + traveling expenses; renting your buddy's back yard for $40k/night -- any of these seem like criminal wrongdoings to you?

How badly does one have to fuck his fiduciary duties before shit's criminal?

Losing money is not criminal wrongdoing.  Companies lose money and make bad decisions.  Assets like Bitcoin go up and down.  This is not a criminal charge against the people who were there...not even close.

You are also not only not being productive but outright lying in the second part of the post: I am not paid any consultancy fees, my entire travel expense reimbursement is about $1000 in history and there is no side dealing like you allude to whatsoever.

[BruceFenton]

I am not suggesting you have done all, or any, of the above. I don't know if you got a dog or a BF, don't know you. What I did was ask a hypothetical question. You, apparently, feel everything listed falls under "losing money," and thus "not criminal." Correct?

The problem is that you are presuming guilt first...even to the point of calling Federal agencies.

I haven't seen anything criminal, Jim Harper who was an attorney and board member said the same thing, also Patrick Murck, the accountants bookkeepers etc.

No one has even made any specific accusation.   No one is saying someone stole thier money or is owed money etc.

It's all simply and totally random accusations that are not based on any facts but just that some people dislike the organization.

[QuestionAuthority]

Maybe there never was even a little impropriety, only reckless spending. There may never have been enough money collected from members to be worth the bother. Could you provide the Bitcoin addresses where donations were received so I could see for myself? Gotta love that blockchain, it records everything.

[tomothy]

Hey Bruce,

Will TBF make any comments about recent happenings? I.e. Mike Hearn's comment, participation and recent action with Bitcoin Classic vs Bitcoin Core? Is classic supported by TBF?

Also, any comments or supplemental filing to SEC w/ regards to Cryptsy 13k BTC 300k LTC theft?

If someone wanted to help volunteer w/ TBF what would you want them to do/who to contact, etc etc?

[BruceFenton]

Maybe there never was even a little impropriety, only reckless spending. There may never have been enough money collected from members to be worth the bother. Could you provide the Bitcoin addresses where donations were received so I could see for myself? Gotta love that blockchain, it records everything.

I wasn't at all involved with the foundation at that time and have no idea what addresses were used.  I don't think blockchain records would be super helpful since it doesn't specify where the money went, only an address..  Most incoming money was from memberships -- each year's revenue is reported on the tax returns.   In 2014 it was approx $300k

The other, larger piece of money they had was from the increase in value of Bitcoin - many early donations and memberships were paid with Bitcoin and that increased - in 2014 they had $4.6 million in assets, almost all of that Bitcoin.

[BruceFenton]

Hey Bruce,

Will TBF make any comments about recent happenings? I.e. Mike Hearn's comment, participation and recent action with Bitcoin Classic vs Bitcoin Core? Is classic supported by TBF?

Also, any comments or supplemental filing to SEC w/ regards to Cryptsy 13k BTC 300k LTC theft?

If someone wanted to help volunteer w/ TBF what would you want them to do/who to contact, etc etc?

Bitcoin Foundation has members on all sides of the debate: Peter Todd is a member, Greg Maxwell, Gavin is Chief Scientist, Garzik is a member.

To fairly represent all members,mat this stage it hasn't made much sense to support one side because there is no clear consensus about what the members want.

I really don't know much about Cryptsy.

They can contact me or amy@bitcoinfoundation.org

Can contact a committee chair or can get a few people together and propose creating a new committee.

Thanks very much

B


EDIT: this is a ever-evolving and we may make a statement as early as today

[QuestionAuthority]

Maybe there never was even a little impropriety, only reckless spending. There may never have been enough money collected from members to be worth the bother. Could you provide the Bitcoin addresses where donations were received so I could see for myself? Gotta love that blockchain, it records everything.

I wasn't at all involved with the foundation at that time and have no idea what addresses were used.  I don't think blockchain records would be super helpful since it doesn't specify where the money went, only an address..  Most incoming money was from memberships -- each year's revenue is reported on the tax returns.   In 2014 it was approx $300k

The other, larger piece of money they had was from the increase in value of Bitcoin - many early donations and memberships were paid with Bitcoin and that increased - in 2014 they had $4.6 million in assets, almost all of that Bitcoin.

A Bitcoin address can tell you quite a few things. It's a roadmap that can tell you where the coins went and sometimes how much and when they were exchanged for fiat. In many cases, it can tell you a lot more unless they used a tumbler which would also tell me something. At one point even MtGox was refusing to accept stolen bitcoins. I have a friend that's really good at parsing the blockchain. I was going to have him take a look at the addresses for me.

So, you don't have access to any of the records or they didn't keep any records? Isn't that going to make an audit a little difficult?

[tomothy]

Thanks Bruce,

I'm sure you've seen the letter from KNC, if not...
I was on some of the Chinese Forums earlier and they also had some interesting opinions.
Is it safe to say it's time for Core to face a re-structuring? Looks like the shareholders are in revolt...

https://forum.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-discussion/an-open-letter-from-sam-cole-ceo-of-knc-miner-t4868.html

[Gleb Gamow]

Maybe there never was even a little impropriety, only reckless spending. There may never have been enough money collected from members to be worth the bother. Could you provide the Bitcoin addresses where donations were received so I could see for myself? Gotta love that blockchain, it records everything.

I wasn't at all involved with the foundation at that time and have no idea what addresses were used.  I don't think blockchain records would be super helpful since it doesn't specify where the money went, only an address..  Most incoming money was from memberships -- each year's revenue is reported on the tax returns.   In 2014 it was approx $300k

The other, larger piece of money they had was from the increase in value of Bitcoin - many early donations and memberships were paid with Bitcoin and that increased - in 2014 they had $4.6 million in assets, almost all of that Bitcoin.

Bruce, from all I've read you come across as genuine, thus knowing your fondness of The Bard, hence the [gifted] link I provided knowing that you'd appreciate it, but forgive me for harping a tad longer on that $100K tx.

KnC was invoiced via BitPay for their $100K platinum membership fee which they paid and is documented. BitPay, being ONLY a third-party payment provider does not hold onto any funds but redistributes them via fiat, bitcoin or a combination thereof within ~48 hours per preset parameters of the receiving party, in this example TBF. It's this bitcoin wallet address in TBF's control that the $100K worth of bitcoins, or portion of (if a percentage was sent to TBF's bank account perhaps), was sent that I, among others (assume), desire to see.

Please do your best to provide what I've requested above, for it's been nearly a year and half since I first pursued this transaction to no prevail, albeit your recent reveal has gotten us closer.

To be clear, again, at this penning I have nary a qualm with your current handling of TBF's affairs.

Thank you.

Bruno Kucinskas

[BruceFenton]

Thanks Bruno,

Let me see what I can find out.

I have commitments early in the week then to leave for Moami Bitcoin conference Wed followed immediately by a trip to Saudi Arabia on Friday so it may be a while if I can fist the answers.

One problem is that Bitcoin and cash is fungible.  There isn't a way to track the KNC other than to when it needed up in a bigger pool of Bitcoin or cash controlled by the foundation at that time.   Those records may not even exist anymore -- they did keep track total inflows and outflows like we saw in the 990 form that started this thread.

I'll see what I can do, please feel free to email or reschedge out in a few weeks as a reminder.

B

[Gleb Gamow]

Thanks Bruno,

Let me see what I can find out.

I have commitments early in the week then to leave for Moami Bitcoin conference Wed followed immediately by a trip to Saudi Arabia on Friday so it may be a while if I can fist the answers.

One problem is that Bitcoin and cash is fungible.  There isn't a way to track the KNC other than to when it needed up in a bigger pool of Bitcoin or cash controlled by the foundation at that time.   Those records may not even exist anymore -- they did keep track total inflows and outflows like we saw in the 990 form that started this thread.

I'll see what I can do, please feel free to email or reschedge out in a few weeks as a reminder.

B

Hey, while you're in Miami, can you report back to us if Marshall Long took a bath recently? We've noticed on his Facebook page that he's yet to 'Like' water.

[Gleb Gamow]

Just a friendly bump to see if you've learnt anything. Also, hope your trip to Miami was fruitful. Hey, and speaking of fruits, did you by chance bump into Marshall "Stinking" Long while there?