Is Islam a Religion? (If a muslim can answer that would be good)

[Anddos]

So, all in all, BitNow - your opinion is that Islam is not a religion?

[BitNow]

So, all in all, BitNow - your opinion is that Islam is not a religion?

I've found no verses in the Quran that speak about the Black Stone, nobody yet has pointed me on what this Black Stone is.

The only, muslim opinion, I had is the one of user Kama that pointed me on the Quran verses were the Mecca and Ka'Ba are definide (Ka'Ba is the box inside the Mecca where the Black Stone is contained).

Kama user also said that the Muslims do not worship the Black Stone but he was unable to point me on the Quran where this Black Stone is defined and what it represents to Muslims.

It is know that Muslims do kiss the Black Stone during prayers in the Mecca (at least once in a lifetime).

Kissing is a form of worshipping.

If there are verses in the Quran that oblige a Muslim to worship a thing (the Black Stone) it is demonstrated that Quran obliged Muslims to do idolatry.

Idolatry it is against God's Law (Ex 20:3, 1st Commandement, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me").

In Summary:
If you find a verse in the Quran that obliged a faithful to worship the Black Stone you will find that Islam is a sin (sin of idolatry for Ex 20:3).


Best regards.

[lolxxxx]

we kiss our girls do we worship them ? what a nonsense .

Kissing is a form of worshipping.

[BitNow]

we kiss our girls do we worship them ? what a nonsense .

Kissing is a form of worshipping.

Why do you kiss a girl then?

Please only constructive comments.


Best regards.

[Anddos]

So, all in all, BitNow - your opinion is that Islam is not a religion?

I've found no verses in the Quran that speak about the Black Stone, nobody yet has pointed me on what this Black Stone is.

The only, muslim opinion, I had is the one of user Kama that pointed me on the Quran verses were the Mecca and Ka'Ba are definide (Ka'Ba is the box inside the Mecca where the Black Stone is contained).

Kama user also said that the Muslims do not worship the Black Stone but he was unable to point me on the Quran where this Black Stone is defined and what it represents to Muslims.

It is know that Muslims do kiss the Black Stone during prayers in the Mecca (at least once in a lifetime).

Kissing is a form of worshipping.

If there are verses in the Quran that oblige a Muslim to worship a thing (the Black Stone) it is demonstrated that Quran obliged Muslims to do idolatry.

Idolatry it is against God's Law (Ex 20:3, 1st Commandement, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me").

In Summary:
If you find a verse in the Quran that obliged a faithful to worship the Black Stone you will find that Islam is a sin (sin of idolatry for Ex 20:3).


Best regards.

Agreed. But also keep in mind that Christians kiss the cross and that isn't mentioned in the Bible. Interesting similarities, no?

[BitNow]

Agreed. But also keep in mind that Christians kiss the cross and that isn't mentioned in the Bible. Interesting similarities, no?

Christains worship a cross or statue, Hindus worship cows. all religions find a way to manifest their belief.  

Christians worship the place where Jesus Christ died (there is always Jesus Christ in the cross were you pray).

If your church has a cross without Jesus Christ you can ask your local priest to change the cross because that offended you.

The cross is to give faithful people a symbol to pray on: there is always Jesus Christ in the cross were you pray (is the same with paintings with Saints and so on...).

What is important is the reference figure (Jesus Christ) not the cross itself.

If your church has a cross without Jesus Christ you can ask your local priest to change the cross because that offended you.


Best regards.

Do you think a man (Jesus Christ) is equal to a thing (Black Stone)?

Speaking of entity relationship theory you can say that both are Entities but men has the property "Life" which things have not.

Does that makes you more happy?


Best regards.

[Anddos]

Yes - everything is a symbol and no one worships the object itself - they are still bowing and kissing objects, which are physical entities, which are idols! Q.E.D.

[BitNow]

Yes - everything is a symbol and no one worships the object itself - they are still bowing and kissing objects, which are physical entities, which are idols! Q.E.D.

Exactly: and how can we know what Muslims worship if we don't know what the Black Stone represents?


Best regards.

[Spendulus]

Yes - everything is a symbol and no one worships the object itself - they are still bowing and kissing objects, which are physical entities, which are idols! Q.E.D.

I think this is wrong.  Idols were symbolic of deities in paganism and polytheism.  Then monotheists made up the argument that it was worship of the base object.

At the same time, there are objects that have been believed to be sacred, or endowed with special supernatural abilities.

Druids thought this of oak trees, for example.  But they are alive, so I can't consider them or the worship of them to be "Idolatry."

[Anddos]

Yes - everything is a symbol and no one worships the object itself - they are still bowing and kissing objects, which are physical entities, which are idols! Q.E.D.

Exactly: and how can we know what Muslims worship if we don't know what the Black Stone represents?


Best regards.

Well it seems that their prophet - Muhammad took the stone to Mecca, so seeing how it was he who brought it there it became sacred. Also they believe the stone dates from the time of Adam and Eve and that it fell from Heaven so... the rest is history.

[BitNow]

Druids thought this of oak trees, for example.  But they are alive, so I can't consider them or the worship of them to be "Idolatry."

That is idolatry.
"Idolatry is the worship of an idol or a physical object as a representation of a god"
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry


Best regards.

[salinizm]

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
- Ex 20:3

Idolatry is the worship of an idol or a physical object as a representation of a god.
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry

Muslims worship the Black Stone... why?
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

If the Black Stone is the representation of God on Earth... Islam can be indicated as idolatry and hence been categorized not as Religion but as a sin.

What do you think?

Is the Black Stone the representation of God on Earth?


Best regards.

the black stone isnt the representation of god on earth.. it shows where circumambulation of the kaaba starts.. this is the explanation you have been searching for..

[BitNow]

the black stone isnt the representation of god on earth.. it shows where circumambulation of the kaaba starts.. this is the explanation you have been searching for..

I keep receiving negative (with not objective) replies.

The circumambulation of the kaaba is going around the Ka'Ba were the Black Stone is contained, if you don't know what the Black Stone represents that is not really a complete piece of information.

What is the Black Stone?

What the Black Stone does represents?


Best regards.

[Anddos]

No one seems to have an answer - it would be interesting if no one knew what it is and why they're using it.

[Spendulus]

Druids thought this of oak trees, for example.  But they are alive, so I can't consider them or the worship of them to be "Idolatry."

That is idolatry.
"Idolatry is the worship of an idol or a physical object as a representation of a god"
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry


Best regards.

I guess it would depend then, on whether the "representation" was considered sacred or to have special powers or holiness in and of itself.

Maybe I just don't understand this.

At all.

But then it's part of "religion"...

[BADecker]

Druids thought this of oak trees, for example.  But they are alive, so I can't consider them or the worship of them to be "Idolatry."

That is idolatry.
"Idolatry is the worship of an idol or a physical object as a representation of a god"
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry


Best regards.

Can people worship something in an idolatrous way, but be ignorant about the fact that they are doing it?

[BitNow]

Can people worship something in an idolatrous way, but be ignorant about the fact that they are doing it?

Sure they can, but that doesn't make the ritual that they are doing a Religion.


Best regards.

[Spendulus]

Can people worship something in an idolatrous way, but be ignorant about the fact that they are doing it?

Sure they can, but that doesn't make the ritual that they are doing a Religion.


Best regards.

So Miley Cyprus isn't a religion?

Darn...

[BADecker]

Can people worship something in an idolatrous way, but be ignorant about the fact that they are doing it?

Sure they can, but that doesn't make the ritual that they are doing a Religion.


Best regards.

Okay. Then what are atheists worshiping that makes them idolators or idolatrous?

[BitNow]

Okay. Then what are atheists worshiping that makes them idolators or idolatrous?

This thread is about Islam not atheism.
If you are an atheist that is the right thread for you: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1054513


Best regards.