FreiCoin (FRC) discussion (was FreiCoin (FRC) for TRC, PPC, LTC or BTC)

[scrybe]

I have 1000 FRC available in trade for TRC, BTC, LTC or BTC. Make an offer.

They are going fast! (literally)

(edit: currently awaiting restocking, if you want to sell FRC please PM me.)

In light of the lack of another FRC thread, this one can continue as a discussion vehicle.

Please try to keep on topic, avoid the same old flame wars, and wherever possible provide links and quote important information.

where u get these from?? got a link to the client / daemon? and whitepaper, pools etc?

website: http://freico.in/
Forums: www.freicoin.org
Github: https://github.com/freicoin/freicoin

The forums are a mess, I'm still trying to sort it out, here's a quick dump.

It was referenced in a "lost bitcoins" conversation recently, so I grabbed the client (released on 12-21-12) and started solo mining.

FIRSTLY Freicoin is not released, it will be released on 21-DEC-2012. Please click this link for real information on the coin.

I'm still looking for more information such as the coin limit (if any) (21 million I think) but I know this much...

It's been in the works a while:
Original project announcement thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3816.0

Article from June
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2012/06/freicoin-occupys-online-curren.html

Failed Indiegogo pitch:
http://www.indiegogo.com/freicoin

Beta started this fall, and the chain was reset on 12-21-12 for production.

It's an odd critter. It's a demurrage based currency where your coins are constantly losing 4%/year which is paid to miners as a subsidy. It's brainchild came out of the 99% movement so it's aimed at disincentivising  hoarding and lowering interest rates. I don't quite get how this could work with other currencies in existence, but the slow 4% seep rate may not matter too much in the end. It may just be like bitcoin but with skewed interest rates and less desire to hold.

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[crazyearner]

literally lol firecoin wtf are them never heard of them untill you mention them just now.

looked on other exchanges same thing no word of them nor sight of them.

[FuzzyBear]

where u get these from?? got a link to the client / daemon? and whitepaper, pools etc?

[Blazr]

literally lol firecoin wtf are them never heard of them untill you mention them just now.

looked on other exchanges same thing no word of them nor sight of them.

Its FreiCoin

http://www.freicoin.org/

[scrybe]

where u get these from?? got a link to the client / daemon? and whitepaper, pools etc?

website: http://freico.in/
Forums: www.freicoin.org
Github: https://github.com/freicoin/freicoin

The forums are a mess, I'm still trying to sort it out, here's a quick dump.

It was referenced in a "lost bitcoins" conversation recently, so I grabbed the client (released on 12-21-12) and started solo mining.

FIRSTLY Freicoin is not released, it will be released on 21-DEC-2012. Please click this link for real information on the coin.

I'm still looking for more information such as the coin limit (if any) (100 million) but I know this much...

It's been in the works a while:
Original project announcement thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3816.0

Article from June
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2012/06/freicoin-occupys-online-curren.html

Failed Indiegogo pitch:
http://www.indiegogo.com/freicoin

Beta started this fall, and the chain was reset on 12-21-12 for production.

It's an odd critter. It's a demurrage based currency where your coins are constantly losing 4%/year which is paid to miners as a subsidy. It's brainchild came out of the 99% movement so it's aimed at disincentivising  hoarding and lowering interest rates. I don't quite get how this could work with other currencies in existence, but the slow 4% seep rate may not matter too much in the end. It may just be like bitcoin but with skewed interest rates and less desire to hold.

[maaku]

It's purpose is to lower basic interest rates to 0%, which has far reaching consequences. The best economic overview of Freicoin is available from our about page: Freicoin: a P2P digital currency delivering freedom from usury.

For a detailed analysis of the economics underlying Freicoin, go to the source: Silvio Gesell's Natural Economic Order.

Freicoin outputs lose value by a factor of 2**-20 with each found block, resulting in a loss of approximately 4.9% per annum (assuming constant hash power).

Freicoin has a maximum monetary base of approx. 10**16 satoshis (100MM), albeit with a perpetual reward equal to the number of coins lost to demurrage.

I wouldn't call the Indiegogo failed since it payed for the build and deployment infrastructure and kept us solvent We just had to scale back our scope a little bit.

[dreamwatcher]

New coin Freicoin has been added to the explorer

Due to the unique nature of  demurrage, further modification of the explorer is needed.

I will keep you posted in the cryptocoin explorer thread.

Good Luck Freicoin...You have some competition in the Alt-coin world. But I try to support as many as I can.  

[maaku]

@dreamwatcher: are you handling demurrage correctly? I can help you out.

Join us on #freicoin on IRC.

[tacotime]

Can someone please explain algorithmically how the reward algorithm works? I'm not understanding the 0% interest rate or statements like

Code:

Freicoin is an implementation of Bitcoin which loses approximately 5% of its value per year.

Value of what?  So 5% of any coins I hold are destroyed each year?  Isn't that a disincentive to do anything but spend coins?

[dreamwatcher]

@dreamwatcher: are you handling demurrage correctly? I can help you out.

Join us on #freicoin on IRC.

As far as the Block explorer is concerned, it just sees the demurrage as a normal coin-base transaction split between two addresses.

One for the miner (246) and the (496) I would assume goes to demurrage .ABE does not care where it goes, it is simply reads the Tx script and reports address and amount of the transactions. If there is a need for special handling of the demurrage amounts, please let me know in the Crytocoin Explorer thread (Do not want to hijack this thread.. )

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124303.0

Transaction   Fee   Size (kB)   From (amount)   To (amount)
eecb4c9348...   0   0.141   Generation: 742.6326965 + 0 total fees   115VoJrLiRfk2Q2ffUfFzJyeVPr7geTV34:         246.60095046
                                                                                                                        1MrQWWNKfVseYyGkyyLsDhFekJWGJNt2i9: 496.03174604

[jtimon]

Can someone please explain algorithmically how the reward algorithm works? I'm not understanding the 0% interest rate or statements like

Code:

Freicoin is an implementation of Bitcoin which loses approximately 5% of its value per year.

Value of what?  So 5% of any coins I hold are destroyed each year?  Isn't that a disincentive to do anything but spend coins?

Is an incentive to do anything but hoard (at least hold big quantities). You can always lend or invest. The point is to maintain velocity more or less constant.

[scrybe]

1000 FRC still available. (edit, awaiting new stock, contact me if selling FRC)

[creativex]

Can someone please explain algorithmically how the reward algorithm works? I'm not understanding the 0% interest rate or statements like

Code:

Freicoin is an implementation of Bitcoin which loses approximately 5% of its value per year.

Value of what?  So 5% of any coins I hold are destroyed each year?  Isn't that a disincentive to do anything but spend coins?

No thanks. We already have a currency in place that punishes savers. It's called US Dollars.

[ArticMine]

The problem I have with FreiCoin is that it actually favors the top 1% at the expense of the remaining 99% its origins in the Occupy Movement not withstanding. It does not punish large savers at all since they can cost effectively lend or invest out their Freicoin; however it punishes small savers. This is precisely the same problem with USD.

Consider the following. two cases:

1) Go to JP Morgan with say 100,000,000 USD to invest and say you need to beat the rate of inflation to protect your capital and they will easily be able to accommodate you.

2) Now repeat the above but with only 100 USD and you will be shown the door.

With FreiCoin or USD the person with the 100 USD suffers the ravages of demurage or inflation as the case may be, while the person with the 100,000,000 USD does not. On the other hand with Bitcoin both persons are in the same boat and are protected from demurage or inflation.

[markm]

1000 FRC still available.

Current offers are in the range of 100:1 for BTC, but are looking for different quantities.

People are offering a bitcoin per hundred FReiCoin???

Isn't litecoin only about half a bitcoin per hundred? So that you are saying people are valuing freicoin at about twice the value of litecoin???

-MarkM -

[maaku]

The problem I have with FreiCoin is that it actually favors the top 1% at the expense of the remaining 99% its origins in the Occupy Movement not withstanding. It does not punish large savers at all since they can cost effectively lend or invest out their Freicoin; however it punishes small savers. This is precisely the same problem with USD.

Consider the following. two cases:

1) Go to JP Morgan with say 100,000,000 USD to invest and say you need to beat the rate of inflation to protect your capital and they will easily be able to accommodate you.

2) Now repeat the above but with only 100 USD and you will be shown the door.

With FreiCoin or USD the person with the 100 USD suffers the ravages of demurage or inflation as the case may be, while the person with the 100,000,000 USD does not. On the other hand with Bitcoin both persons are in the same boat and are protected from demurage or inflation.

You are conflating money-as-store-of-value and money-as-medium-of-exchange. Which is understandable as nearly every monetary system in existence makes the same mistake.

With Freicoin we are purposefully making a system that people will not want to use as a store-of-value. If you're sitting on a pile of freicoins wondering what to do with it, the answer is simple: invest it in something else. That something else could even be bitcoins, which complement Freicoin as an excellent store-of-value (but terrible medium-of-exchange if you're anything other than an Austrian-school economist).

[scrybe]

If someone wants to put up the other 5k FRC I have an offer for 10k FRC. (edit: this deal is planned for after Christmas, if you are mining and want to commit some output please PM)

FRC is REALLY new, which might be part of the valuation, the 80% being given to charity may also play a role.

[K1773R]

yay, another pump and dump altcoin whos going to scam first?

[scrybe]

yay, another pump and dump altcoin whos going to scam first?

Actually, I'm inclined to believe this one has legitimate roots. It's been over a year in the making and has been done mostly in public.

[ArticMine]

The problem I have with FreiCoin is that it actually favors the top 1% at the expense of the remaining 99% its origins in the Occupy Movement not withstanding. It does not punish large savers at all since they can cost effectively lend or invest out their Freicoin; however it punishes small savers. This is precisely the same problem with USD.

Consider the following. two cases:

1) Go to JP Morgan with say 100,000,000 USD to invest and say you need to beat the rate of inflation to protect your capital and they will easily be able to accommodate you.

2) Now repeat the above but with only 100 USD and you will be shown the door.

With FreiCoin or USD the person with the 100 USD suffers the ravages of demurage or inflation as the case may be, while the person with the 100,000,000 USD does not. On the other hand with Bitcoin both persons are in the same boat and are protected from demurage or inflation.

You are conflating money-as-store-of-value and money-as-medium-of-exchange. Which is understandable as nearly every monetary system in existence makes the same mistake.

With Freicoin we are purposefully making a system that people will not want to use as a store-of-value. If you're sitting on a pile of freicoins wondering what to do with it, the answer is simple: invest it in something else. That something else could even be bitcoins, which complement Freicoin as an excellent store-of-value (but terrible medium-of-exchange if you're anything other than an Austrian-school economist).

The problem with this argument is that it is not cost effective for the poor to exchange back and forth between Freicoin and Bitcoin while it is very cost effective for the rich to exchange between Freicoin and Bitcoin. So the net effect is that the poor will not be able to effectively hedge against the demurage while the rich will be able to hedge.

What we have with Freicoin is an effort by the Occupy Movement to make the top 1% richer at the expense to the remaining 99%, and why is Bitcoin such a poor medium of exchange especially for poor people in any case?