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Author Topic: ToominCoin aka "Bitcoin_Classic" #R3KT  (Read 148082 times)
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hv_
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February 26, 2019, 05:43:04 AM
Last edit: February 26, 2019, 06:20:07 AM by hv_
 #2421

Stable, simple and legal impl of the white paper will win all markets.

I can only see BSV being the true and acceptable Bitcoin.

On what possible basis?  BSV has ~650 nodes.  LN has ~6500 nodes.  It's pretty clear which one the market prefers.

Economic incentives , usability and security level will decide that.

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile - don't dillute Bitcoin - mine honest!
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
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February 26, 2019, 06:08:35 AM
 #2422

Stable, simple and legal impl of the white paper will win all markets.

I can only see BSV being the true and acceptable Bitcoin.

On what possible basis?  BSV has ~650 nodes.  LN has ~6500 nodes.  It's pretty clear which one the market prefers.

Economic incentives, usability and security level will decide that.

I think we'll see in the coming years that BSV simply isn't sustainable.

It's funny that you mention "economic incentives." A deflationary supply with no fee pressure? 1 TB block sizes in the next 2 years? How is that supposed to incentivize miners to secure the chain? It sounds ludicrous.

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February 26, 2019, 06:27:41 AM
 #2423

Stable, simple and legal impl of the white paper will win all markets.

I can only see BSV being the true and acceptable Bitcoin.

On what possible basis?  BSV has ~650 nodes.  LN has ~6500 nodes.  It's pretty clear which one the market prefers.

Economic incentives, usability and security level will decide that.

I think we'll see in the coming years that BSV simply isn't sustainable.

It's funny that you mention "economic incentives." A deflationary supply with no fee pressure? 1 TB block sizes in the next 2 years? How is that supposed to incentivize miners to secure the chain? It sounds ludicrous.

Compared to LN - easy to sustain.

Compared to 1megSegshit coin - easy after as well cause lot of business will use BSV also as audit / time stamping layer, the only open scalable blockchain the industries are looking for, and can adopt cause the impl is close to spec - legit as such - and does not (need to) change. LN and other 2nd layer stuff are not 10y old and tested Bitcoin and are at experimental stage at best with poor level of safety for any industrial use and legal implications that make any adoption challenging.


Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile - don't dillute Bitcoin - mine honest!
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
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February 26, 2019, 06:40:44 AM
 #2424

Economic incentives, usability and security level will decide that.

I think we'll see in the coming years that BSV simply isn't sustainable.

It's funny that you mention "economic incentives." A deflationary supply with no fee pressure? 1 TB block sizes in the next 2 years? How is that supposed to incentivize miners to secure the chain? It sounds ludicrous.

Compared to LN - easy to sustain.

Compared to 1megSegshit coin - easy after as well cause lot of business will use BSV also as audit / time stamping layer, the only open scalable blockchain the industries are looking for, and can adopt cause the impl is close to spec - legit as such - and does not (need to) change. LN and other 2nd layer stuff are not 10y old and tested Bitcoin and are at experimental stage at best with poor level of safety for any industrial use and legal implications that make any adoption challenging.

You're just dodging the issue, though. It doesn't even matter if everyone in the world wants to use BSV. The entire design is based on the idea of not allowing scarcity of block space. There is no way to pressure fees above zero. How the hell are miners going to be paid? Or do BSV miners just secure the chain out of the goodness of their hearts?

BSV is setting itself up to implode when the mining subsidy starts winding down. Not that it matters to Craig Wright and Calvin Ayre. They're just here for the cash grab.

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February 26, 2019, 07:23:10 AM
 #2425

Economic incentives, usability and security level will decide that.

I think we'll see in the coming years that BSV simply isn't sustainable.

It's funny that you mention "economic incentives." A deflationary supply with no fee pressure? 1 TB block sizes in the next 2 years? How is that supposed to incentivize miners to secure the chain? It sounds ludicrous.

Compared to LN - easy to sustain.

Compared to 1megSegshit coin - easy after as well cause lot of business will use BSV also as audit / time stamping layer, the only open scalable blockchain the industries are looking for, and can adopt cause the impl is close to spec - legit as such - and does not (need to) change. LN and other 2nd layer stuff are not 10y old and tested Bitcoin and are at experimental stage at best with poor level of safety for any industrial use and legal implications that make any adoption challenging.

You're just dodging the issue, though. It doesn't even matter if everyone in the world wants to use BSV. The entire design is based on the idea of not allowing scarcity of block space. There is no way to pressure fees above zero. How the hell are miners going to be paid? Or do BSV miners just secure the chain out of the goodness of their hearts?

BSV is setting itself up to implode when the mining subsidy starts winding down. Not that it matters to Craig Wright and Calvin Ayre. They're just here for the cash grab.

Bitcoin 's inflation is going down over the decades. Fees are the incentives for miners and this only works with masses and huge blocks, where all txs pay sub cent amounts but the sum is good enough for miners to run.

With 1mb u need to get only monster fees to run btc sustainable but no masses that can afford these onchain secure txs. Not Bitcoin. U ll give up that business to a few 2nd layer middle men - not Bitcoin.

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile - don't dillute Bitcoin - mine honest!
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
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February 26, 2019, 07:35:33 AM
 #2426

With 1mb u need to get only monster fees to run btc sustainable but no masses that can afford these onchain secure txs. Not Bitcoin. U ll give up that business to a few 2nd layer middle men - not Bitcoin.

Speaking of fees, how many users would BSV need to have at BSV's current average fee to match the current fees miners get from BTC?  

And what makes you think that BSV would be the first choice for people who don't want to pay the fees on the BTC chain?  There are thousands of other coins.  The only remarkable thing about BSV is the fraudulent clown at the helm trying to convince everyone they're supposedly satoshi.  Not exactly a selling point.  Beyond that, it's another coin that's slightly above Dogecoin in terms of nodecount.  Why should anyone care?

And if by some miracle BSV does become popular and start filling blocks, it's going to be a few big companies running what few nodes remain.  You will destroy any shred of decentralisation.

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February 26, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
 #2427

With 1mb u need to get only monster fees to run btc sustainable but no masses that can afford these onchain secure txs. Not Bitcoin. U ll give up that business to a few 2nd layer middle men - not Bitcoin.

Speaking of fees, how many users would BSV need to have at BSV's current average fee to match the current fees miners get from BTC?  

And what makes you think that BSV would be the first choice for people who don't want to pay the fees on the BTC chain?  There are thousands of other coins.  The only remarkable thing about BSV is the fraudulent clown at the helm trying to convince everyone they're supposedly satoshi.  Not exactly a selling point.  Beyond that, it's another coin that's slightly above Dogecoin in terms of nodecount.  Why should anyone care?

And if by some miracle BSV does become popular and start filling blocks, it's going to be a few big companies running what few nodes remain.  You will destroy any shred of decentralisation.

If u d know how industry is selective at adoption process u will see that legal and compliance is top filter.

What is the real clean thing of Bitcoin that is specked up, defined by a 'legal' relvant term sheet for tech and financial documentation?

It is scalable in industrial way - even mentioned by Satoshi already.

We are stuck here with bottom up 'adoption' and scams that had lead to coins all full of scammers.

Go and distill what is the real essence of Bitcoin and let that go viral, uncrippled.

It is only about sending p2p cash, for fraction of a cent - stored on a public  blockchain - the world needs that new thing and the world is maximum decentralized, no need to be scared of 'central' control as we see from core and their way of dictatorship planning like in communism or kingdom.

Markets are free and lead to proper decentralization due to its sheer openess and fragility to any op risk that will break up any dominant corporation after some time ( see Bitmain actually).

Everything is well allined, relax at let the original Bitcoin do its work.


Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile - don't dillute Bitcoin - mine honest!
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
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March 07, 2019, 05:18:48 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #2428

Stable, simple and legal impl of the white paper will win all markets.

I can only see BSV being the true and acceptable Bitcoin.

On what possible basis?  BSV has ~650 nodes.  LN has ~6500 nodes.  It's pretty clear which one the market prefers.

Economic incentives , usability and security level will decide that.

Yeah, 2 GB blocks greatly improves security, usability, and incentives.

It is only about sending p2p cash, for fraction of a cent - stored on a public  blockchain - the world needs that new thing and the world is maximum decentralized, no need to be scared of 'central' control as we see from core and their way of dictatorship planning like in communism or kingdom.

Yeah, team Core is a communistic monarchy with King Gregory making all the decisions. Craigoshi Wrightomoto is leading a meritocracy that follows the only vision that he always intended.

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March 08, 2019, 07:22:44 AM
 #2429

Yeah, 2 GB blocks greatly improves security, usability, and incentives.

It is only about sending p2p cash, for fraction of a cent - stored on a public  blockchain - the world needs that new thing and the world is maximum decentralized, no need to be scared of 'central' control as we see from core and their way of dictatorship planning like in communism or kingdom.

Yeah, team Core is a communistic monarchy with King Gregory making all the decisions. Craigoshi Wrightomoto is leading a meritocracy that follows the only vision that he always intended.

Quoting for reference. I truly hope this is sarcasm.

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March 08, 2019, 07:40:53 AM
 #2430

Yeah, 2 GB blocks greatly improves security, usability, and incentives.

It is only about sending p2p cash, for fraction of a cent - stored on a public  blockchain - the world needs that new thing and the world is maximum decentralized, no need to be scared of 'central' control as we see from core and their way of dictatorship planning like in communism or kingdom.

Yeah, team Core is a communistic monarchy with King Gregory making all the decisions. Craigoshi Wrightomoto is leading a meritocracy that follows the only vision that he always intended.

Quoting for reference. I truly hope this is sarcasm.

I merited the post because I thought that it was sarcasm, and I thought that no one could actually believe such dumb substance.. that is why I thought that it was so funny...   

But now, I question that perhaps I had read the post wrong? 

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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March 08, 2019, 01:27:20 PM
 #2431

Bitcoin Classic - Fucking hell, why are we still discussing that failure? I think best to lock this thread & let it sink.
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March 08, 2019, 05:57:33 PM
 #2432

LOL of course it was sarcasm!  Cheesy

They have gotten to a level of ridiculous where sarcasm is hard to distinguish from their genuine beliefs.  Embarrassed

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March 08, 2019, 06:24:44 PM
 #2433

LOL of course it was sarcasm!  Cheesy

They have gotten to a level of ridiculous where sarcasm is hard to distinguish from their genuine beliefs.  Embarrassed

I do appreciate your clarification because I was beginning to doubt myself.

Also, I do appreciate that frequently some of the best jokes achieve their best results when they are made as if they were serious.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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March 08, 2019, 11:26:28 PM
 #2434

Stable, simple and legal impl of the white paper will win all markets.

I can only see BSV being the true and acceptable Bitcoin.

On what possible basis?  BSV has ~650 nodes.  LN has ~6500 nodes.  It's pretty clear which one the market prefers.

Economic incentives , usability and security level will decide that.

Yeah, 2 GB blocks greatly improves security, usability, and incentives.

It is only about sending p2p cash, for fraction of a cent - stored on a public  blockchain - the world needs that new thing and the world is maximum decentralized, no need to be scared of 'central' control as we see from core and their way of dictatorship planning like in communism or kingdom.

Yeah, team Core is a communistic monarchy with King Gregory making all the decisions. Craigoshi Wrightomoto is leading a meritocracy that follows the only vision that he always intended.


Dont mind, or rather open ur mind and watch where open capitalism and open Bitcoin protocol  will move where some wannabe control freaks cannot follow any more

https://mobile.twitter.com/CoinstorageGuru/status/1103857941298339840

Carpe diem  -  cut the down side  -  be anti-fragile - don't dillute Bitcoin - mine honest!
Memo: 1AHUYNJKPfY7PjVK1hNQFo5LrdGixuiybw  -  https://metanet.icu/
The simple way is the genius way - in Moore's Law and Satoshi's WP we trust.
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March 09, 2019, 05:36:46 AM
Last edit: March 09, 2019, 05:52:49 AM by gmaxwell
 #2435

How is this possible?  No Lightning without a malleability fix.  

Schnorr sigs are inherently non-malleable, or at least sigs using the schnorr implementation that Bitcoin Core devs designed (and Bitcoin Cash devs copy-pasted) are
They're claiming they will be able to do payment channels and lightning, but until they implement the rest of their segwit-under-another-name hash/txid split, they likely won't. Schnorr plus the aborted BIP62 implementation they copied from core aren't enough. Smiley

Quote
In other news, Toomin is apparently thrashing around trying to get a tiny percentage improvement in block propagation over BIP152 compact blocks (now ~2 year old tech). Such innovate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/axza7b/id_love_to_get_an_update_on_what_is_happening/ehzhki0/?context=3

(turns out that without using minisketch they can't get within an order of magnitude of the known best case for almost pointless marginal optimizations... and it's kinda hard to make a case for how much better you are when all your examples are copying the people you're trying to say you're better than. Tongue)
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March 09, 2019, 05:40:57 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #2436

LOL of course it was sarcasm!  Cheesy
They have gotten to a level of ridiculous where sarcasm is hard to distinguish from their genuine beliefs.  Embarrassed
I do appreciate your clarification because I was beginning to doubt myself.
Also, I do appreciate that frequently some of the best jokes achieve their best results when they are made as if they were serious.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Poe's law man, poe's law.

The bamboozled are going to feel pretty cheated when they figure out that I'm just some nobody that got targeted because of my lifelong promotion of freedom and privacy technology. It's probably no accident that "hacking team" was sending out newsletter claiming that bitcoin could become an establishment threat if got improved privacy and then I become a number one target, complete with an over the top disinformation laden NYT hit piece, short after after I published a design and implementation of Confidential Transactions.  Smiley
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March 09, 2019, 06:36:19 AM
 #2437

LOL of course it was sarcasm!  Cheesy
They have gotten to a level of ridiculous where sarcasm is hard to distinguish from their genuine beliefs.  Embarrassed
I do appreciate your clarification because I was beginning to doubt myself.
Also, I do appreciate that frequently some of the best jokes achieve their best results when they are made as if they were serious.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Poe's law man, poe's law.

The bamboozled are going to feel pretty cheated when they figure out that I'm just some nobody that got targeted because of my lifelong promotion of freedom and privacy technology. It's probably no accident that "hacking team" was sending out newsletter claiming that bitcoin could become an establishment threat if got improved privacy and then I become a number one target, complete with an over the top disinformation laden NYT hit piece, short after after I published a design and implementation of Confidential Transactions.  Smiley

Several of the technical presentation aspects of bitcoin are so above my head that I can only superficially attempt to keep track of them - given my other life activities, so regarding some of your technical publications, I am not sure if above you are referring to the Xthinner link that you posted above or some other attributed writings from the dev mailinglist that I am aware of, namely Taproot and Graftroot.  Maybe those are not yours, but I thought that I heard some presentations that represented them to be recent publications of yours that were described and read by Max Hilibrant on the World Crypto Network.  

Hopefully, you don't let the targeting get to you because from what I understand you have been able to continue to give great contributions to bitcoin, and even in spite of your being extensively attacked for several years already.  You are fairly famous for being attacked, one of the reasons why satoshi disappeared, and maybe they think that you are satoshi?  

I will ask you this.   Have you ever seen satoshi and gmaxwell in the same room at the same time?

By the way, many people who have been around the block a few times already appreciate that effective people are going to be targeted more than non-effective people, so it is really good if coders are able to learn from you and your code, and my understanding that you are able to pick out loopholes and issues with code that others need to learn and contribute as many redundant parts of a decentralized and multi-faceted machine like you seem to suggest, and perhaps publishing under various other pseudonyms could be helpful too.  

Security through obscurity, and perhaps some positive aspects of all the shitcoins, whether supposed security coins or decentralized computing or other snake oils, is that they distract people into thinking that those various shit coins/projects are actually providing value - which seems to allow a decent amount of continued work, progress and adoption with bitcoin and lightning network which results in increasing network effects in terms of adoption (in the Trace Mayer framework of the 7 simultaneous network effects of bitcoin)..., and thank you to the many technical folks, of course including you gmaxwell (even though you want to downplay your "nobody" aspect) for those ongoing contributions whether publishing new pieces or merely just reviewing the proposed contributions of others (code, BIPs or otherwise).

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
Lauda
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March 09, 2019, 09:34:48 AM
 #2438

I merited the post because I thought that it was sarcasm, and I thought that no one could actually believe such dumb substance.. that is why I thought that it was so funny...   
I've seen plenty of fools claim similar stuff so it's hard to tell whether it is sarcasm or not if you don't know the poster.

LOL of course it was sarcasm!  Cheesy
Good.

The bamboozled are going to feel pretty cheated when they figure out that I'm just some nobody that got targeted because of my lifelong promotion of freedom and privacy technology. It's probably no accident that "hacking team" was sending out newsletter claiming that bitcoin could become an establishment threat if got improved privacy and then I become a number one target, complete with an over the top disinformation laden NYT hit piece, short after after I published a design and implementation of Confidential Transactions.  Smiley
Just some nobody, heh.

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marcus_of_augustus
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May 10, 2019, 02:47:11 AM
 #2439

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy and so the beat goes on.

btcusury
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May 15, 2019, 12:33:50 PM
 #2440

LOL of course it was sarcasm!  Cheesy
They have gotten to a level of ridiculous where sarcasm is hard to distinguish from their genuine beliefs.  Embarrassed
I do appreciate your clarification because I was beginning to doubt myself.
Also, I do appreciate that frequently some of the best jokes achieve their best results when they are made as if they were serious.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
Poe's law man, poe's law.

The bamboozled are going to feel pretty cheated when they figure out that I'm just some nobody that got targeted because of my lifelong promotion of freedom and privacy technology. It's probably no accident that "hacking team" was sending out newsletter claiming that bitcoin could become an establishment threat if got improved privacy and then I become a number one target, complete with an over the top disinformation laden NYT hit piece, short after after I published a design and implementation of Confidential Transactions.  Smiley

NYT=WaPo=CNN=MSNBC = CIA mockingbird gangs. When these attack you, you're being considered an enemy... XOR you're one of them, part of a controlled opposition program, being propped up with additional credibility by means of a hit piece. Wink


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