TPTB_Coin vs AmericanPegasusCoin: which next-gen currency to invest in for 2016?

[traumschiff]

Who the hell is Bob Surplus.

A scammer who has conducted multiple pump and dump scams, the largest (afaik) being cheating BitBay investors and his own pump group out of 700 BTC by conspiring with an exchange (BTER) to pump the price using the ICO funds that were supposed to be frozen by the exchange until the coin is released. The deal was Bob and his partner Gekko were supposed to handle the marketing of the coin but they just took the BTC, dumped the BitBay coins, and ran.

Surprised he's still alive tbh.

http://cointelegraph.com/news/113238/chat-logs-allegedly-show-bter-creating-and-pumping-its-own-coin

I am sure you remember that my unmoderated thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857457.0 crashed the Bitbay party. Bobsurplus admitted the scam as well as challenged David Zimbeck there. Since I know the the story quite well, let me point out an inaccuracy in your post.

To say that Bob was the scammer without mentioning David Zimbeck is a misinformation. Yes, Bob is a scammer (thought at least unlike others he admit that his business is P&D), but Bob wasn't the main figure behind that scam - it was David Zimbeck. Without the active input of David the Bitbay scam could never happen. Bob deployed the army of sockpuppets and shills to P&D the coin - which is a scam and that's what he does with all coins he is involved with - but not mentioning David Zimbeck is like you wouldn't mention Laurel in the analysis of the Laurel & Hardy act. On that note, it's actually hilarious as Laurel & Hardy was that many of us warn users, becuase the shit they sell is not a real projects, only a P&D that is suported by shills and sockpuppets, Bob admits himself that he is a P&D organiser, but idiots and wannabe rich greedy "investors" (most of the time with a no more than a high school lunch money size investment) still buy his shitcoins.

Anyway, I think Bob is already finished his operation.

This is how I remember it, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Zimbeck is still working on BitBay this day, Bob never did anything to help the project. Bob and the rest of the scam team hired Zimbeck to implement his smart contracts into the wallet (and that was supposed to be all he would do and be paid for), and started advertising the project using Zimbeck's name as the lead developer without his consent to give it more credibility.

Zimbeck's only fault imo was that he didn't quit and tell everyone after finding out Bob and his scam team were up to no good, but kept quiet instead hoping the project could deliver regardless.

After Bob left soon after the ICO and took all the project's money there were no funds left for development, and Zimbeck decided to stay and finish the project alone even though that wasn't his job, it should've been Bob's team's responsibility.

Wasn't it the chinese guy from Bter who hired both Bob and David? Bob offered him his "marketing" services while David was needed as a developer (he is probably well known within the chinese crypto community because of BLK/BC). Bob fucked both of them over and went away with the money.

Aye and Bob started with threats first, told the Chinese "project owner" that he will crush the project if he doesn't get more $.

That's what I remember from the leaked IRC logs.

[altcoinUK]

Zimbeck's only fault imo was that he didn't quit and tell everyone after finding out Bob and his scam team were up to no good, but kept quiet instead hoping the project could deliver regardless.

Yes. Who is in his right mind would team up with Bobsurplus when Bob openly advertises that he couldn't care less about technology, not interested in business plans nor creating something real - his only business plan is to pump and dump a coin. David did team up with the self admitted scammer. I like David to a certain extent as he is a smart young man, but he was totally immoral and corrupt in the Bitbay operation. 

Aye and Bob started with threats first, told the Chinese "project owner" that he will crush the project if he doesn't get more $.

The reason of the fight between Bob and David was more simple: David offended Bob in my unmoderated thread, David was not very complimentary about Bob. Bob didn't like that and lost his scammer cold head, and then he did have reiterated the insults by publishing the chat logs. Two scammers who came together to P&D a coin and market it to naive "investors" clashed on personal matters. Also, Bob realised that there won't be much profit and he didn't care any more, and crashed the party. We made quite a noise in that thread, law enforcement was being starting to be involved with the process so that was Bob's exit.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Guys, take posts of altcoinUK with a big portion of salt, he is a well-known lier.

[CryptoAddict]

why are ppl paying so much attention to this guy TPTB_need_war ?   

He seems delusional. Like a raving lunatic. The big talk no action type.

The way I see it he is just looking for attention and that's what you are all giving him. 

[altcoinUK]

Guys, take posts of altcoinUK with a big portion of salt, he is a well-known lier.

Oh you butthurt troll ... what exactly could be inaccurate in my post in which I quoted my thread (so anyone can read what happened) that brought end to the Bitbay party which was the largest scam of 2014? Similarly it is documented in this BCT forum how I took my lawyer to Moolah, and then immediately warned the Vericoin devs that Moolah is a scam before the collapse of that exchange. Thanks for our actions the scam was revealed and now Moolah's Ryan Kennedy is in jail.  

You come after me from thread to thread because you are butthurt, but your trolling won't change the facts - they are documented in this forum.

Be proud that you had a chief role in NXT, keep on proudly advertising how you made 1000x ROI without mentioning the thousands of idiots who are holding the NXT bag now, then go back to your pathetic JINN and IOTA scams. As I said in the other thread, it is regrettable that a smart and talented individual like yourself allocate his effort to cluster fuck operations.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Guys, take posts of altcoinUK with a big portion of salt, he is a well-known lier.

Oh you butthurt troll ... what exactly could be inaccurate in my post in which I quoted my thread (so anyone can read what happened) that brought end to the Bitbay party which was the largest scam of 2014? Similarly it is documented in this BCT forum how I took my lawyer to Moolah, and then immediately warned the Vericoin devs that Moolah is a scam before the collapse of that exchange. Thanks for our actions the scam was revealed and now Moolah's Ryan Kennedy is in jail.  

You come after me from thread to thread because you are butthurt, but your trolling won't change the facts - they are documented in this forum.

Be proud that you had a chief role in NXT, keep on proudly advertising how you made 1000x ROI without mentioning the thousands of idiots who are holding the NXT bag now, then go back to your pathetic JINN and IOTA scams. As I said in the other thread, it is regrettable that a smart and talented individual like yourself allocate his effort to cluster fuck operations.

Here is the reply - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854280.msg13640656#msg13640656.

[Come-from-Beyond]

You come after me from thread to thread because you are butthurt, but your trolling won't change the facts - they are documented in this forum.

You are wrong. I came to this thread to warn the others about your personality. I'll be doing this time to time here and there every time I see you posting.

[altcoinUK]

I came to this thread to warn the others about your personality.

Welcome to the altcoinUK fan club ... and I am flattered to a certain degree that your mission is to post about me.

Please note, some of the members of this rather exclusive altcoinUK fan club are in jail (like the Moolah scammer) or are heading to jail like the Banxshares ponzi genious or are in the radar of law enforcement like David Zimbeck and once he is out from the Cambodia hideout he will be most likely questioned about his role in Bitbay.

It is obviously no coincidence that you have voluntarily joined this club by being obsessed with my posts and following me wherever I post.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Welcome to the altcoinUK fan club ... and I am flattered to a certain degree that your mission is to post about me.

Please note, some of the members of this rather exclusive altcoinUK fan club are in jail (like the Moolah scammer) or are heading to jail like the Banxshares ponzi genious or are in the radar of law enforcement like David Zimbeck and once he is out from the Cambodia hideout he will be most likely questioned about his role in Bitbay.

It is obviously no coincidence that you have voluntarily joined this club by being obsessed with my posts and following me wherever I post.

So now you try to scare me? Looks like I've touched your open wound. Anyway, I'll keep an eye on you. The step from lies to a scam is very short, I'll do my best to protect others from your scam attempts. Your activity in GadgetCoin thread already raised red flags.

[altcoinUK]

The step from lies to a scam is very short, I'll do my best to protect others ...

And this comes from you who had a chief role in the NXT cluster fuck that has created thousands of bagholders, you who created the JINN scam that failed to deliver anything, you who now scam with IOTA  to lure out more money from the greedy and delusional crowd who will celebrate the 10x ROI and don't care about the many inevitable bagholders at the end of the chain.

It's like a porn actor who regularly fuck porn actresses in ass as well as get fucked in ass by other porn actors would claim that his mission is to promote pure love romantic relationship.  

That's very noble man, it's a nice story ... it breaks my heart when a scammer like yourself promote his nonsense by claiming that he looking after others' interest or even after the public's interest.

[Come-from-Beyond]

The step from lies to a scam is very short, I'll do my best to protect others ...

And this comes from you who had a chief role in the NXT cluster fuck that has created thousands of bagholders, you who created the JINN scam that failed to deliver anything, you who now scam with IOTA  to lure out more money from the greedy and delusional crowd who will celebrate the 10x ROI and don't care about the many inevitable bagholders at the end of the chain.

It's like a porn actor who regularly fuck porn actresses in ass as well as get fucked in ass by other porn actors would claim that his mission is to promote pure love romantic relationship.  

That's very noble man, it's a nice story ... it breaks my heart when a scammer like yourself promote his nonsense by claiming that he looking after others' interest or even after the public's interest.

Strong language doesn't add credibility to your words. Explain your lie about my anonymity and then we'll talk about Nxt.

[altcoinUK]

Explain your lie about my anonymity and then we'll talk about Nxt.

Sorry, I have a bad news for you: scammers like yourself don't drive the conversation here. All right? We talk about facts here. Such as your chief role in the NXT cluster fuck that created thousands of bagholders who hold the worthless bag. You created the JINN scam-money-collecting-party and failed to deliver anything. Now you are replicating the money collecting P&D party with IOTA by promising to build a lucrative IoT business without having any actual real industrial and business experience in IoT (nonsense really).

These are the facts, and your trolling about whether you are anonymous or not is irrelevant.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Explain your lie about my anonymity and then we'll talk about Nxt.

Sorry, I have a bad news for you: scammers like yourself don't drive the conversation here. All right? We talk about facts here. Such as your chief role in the NXT cluster fuck that created thousands of bagholders who hold the worthless bag. You created the JINN scam-money-collecting-party and failed to deliver anything. Now you are replicating the money collecting P&D party with IOTA by promising to build a lucrative IoT business without having any actual real industrial and business experience in IoT (nonsense really).

These are the facts, and your trolling about whether you are anonymous or not is irrelevant.

Replied here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854280.msg13642076#msg13642076

[TPTB_need_war]

On the note of TPTB_need_war, I like him, he is a very smart fellow, bring up interesting points in technical discussions, but here is my warning and prediction: if he ever release his coin (which is doubtful as he is unable to work with anyone, e.g now he is having a fight with his former best friend smooth) then that coin will create nothing but tears and disappointment for the inevitable bagholders. It will be P&D like other coins with the army of disappointed bag holders at the and of the chain.  

TPTB_need_war's innovations such us the no PoW and his plan of pursuing the third world market are nothing but marketing gimmicks. There is zero chance for monetization (except that he and the early adopters will pocket some profit via the P&D) and his coin will never find way to real world businesses and won't be a factor in the real world's economy. It will exists in this pathetic no volume microcosms for a while, and then it will disappear like all other coins.

AltcoinUK and I are friendly as far as I know. A couple of weeks ago, I was invited to join GadgetCoin's private group discussion. They are working on IoT (and also a distributed streaming platform Streemo) and have a lead developer who (roughly the same age as me and) is an invited expert for the W3C Web Of Things working group, due primarily to that invited expert's maintenance of the nodeJS implementation of the proposed API undergoing the standardization process. AltcoinUK appears to maybe be an investor, but I haven't confirmed that with him. I don't think I am stating anything here that isn't already publicly available information, thus I am not revealing any private discussions that took place.

In any case, after lengthy discussions to become familiar with their goals and assets, we all mutually agreed there was no overlap between my goals to create a better decentralized currency and their current goals. So I was expunged from the private discussion forum and to the best of my understanding, it ended amicably submitting to factual reality.

It is possible that AltcoinUK is rationalizing to himself that anything I will work on is doomed to failure because I decided not to change my focus and adopt a more business-targeted focus that their group is considering (in addition to I presume continuing GadgetCoin). In other words, he might possibly be allowing his feelings dominate his objective open-minded analysis. But I am not accusing him of anything, just saying it is a possibility.

I wrote upthread that I would not entertain discussions about vaporware, but I will respond to allegations/theories/conjecture asserting that all my plans are shit.

First of all, AltcoinUK is not privy to all the details of my plans. I am by no means planning to airdrop coins to n00bs in the third world market and leave it at that. That of course would fail, because there is nothing to spend the coins on and thus no ecosystem is created.

I don't need to tell AltcoinUK my precise plans, because when he sees them in action, he will quickly understand how wrong he was. As I said, only action counts and if and when that action comes from me, then it will be extremely clear there is no P&D because the adoption will be spreading all over the world at a viral pace. It will be quite clear to everyone that I have won. And then finally I can say to all my detractors, "STFU"! But I won't have any hard feelings towards AltcoinUK because I can understand (the justifiable reasons) why he is thinking and feeling the way he is.

Btw, I expect all of you to be shocked as to the developer(s) that will be working with me shortly. Smooth is a pindot in the specific industry I am targeting (although I presume smooth is highly sought expert and magnanimous in the industry where he has focused his career) compared to these guys who have a very strong incentive to work with me. Note I am not fighting with smooth. I am advising Monero to get more focused on corporate block chain privacy (with specific admonishment to study more closely Zerocash's technology), because afaics that is the best potential market for them and their developers' experience is in server work for corporations and I can see now that they were really trying to adopt Linus Torvald's model for open source development, but IMHO the mistake they made was replacing corporate funding with speculators. This is what is screwing up their technological focus and prognosis.

AltcoinUK, please note that my advice and insight to Monero partially derives from what I learned from talking to your group. So you can see I am still trying to advance the technological progress that your corporate target markets need, even though I won't be the one developing those corporate block chain privacy solutions. Hopefully your group will pick up on my cue and find your role and place within that.

As for my work, I have been in the midst of massive strategic thinking mode for the past 3 - 4 weeks, trying to nail down exactly what I am doing. I am happy to conclude, it has all finally gelled for me. But again, I don't want to speculate on vaporware. If the action comes, you will know it.

Please do note that the technologies I am working are not marketing gimicks and are absolutely required to achieve the adoption I am targeting. This will all be clear at the appropriate time.

Everyone knows my complete name is Shelby Moore III. If any P&D comes out of my efforts, then you can take it to me personally. I can't hide. I am a USA citizen.

Again I want everyone to remember I am not creating software and tokens targeting investors (although no one can entirely control what exchange markets do). I am targeting mass markets for decentralized applications. I am targeting a for-use token that enables decentralized applications that COULD NOT BE ACHIEVED ANY OTHER WAY.

[Come-from-Beyond]

AltcoinUK and I are friendly as far as I know. A couple of weeks ago, I was invited to join GadgetCoin's private group discussion. They are working on IoT (and also a distributed streaming platform Streemo) and have a lead developer who (roughly the same age as me and) is an invited expert for the W3C Web Of Things working group, due primarily to that invited expert's maintenance of the nodeJS implementation of the proposed API undergoing the standardization process. AltcoinUK appears to maybe be an investor, but I haven't confirmed that with him. I don't think I am stating anything here that isn't already publicly available information, thus I am not revealing any private discussions that took place.

In any case, after lengthy discussions to become familiar with their goals and assets, we all mutually agreed there was no overlap between my goals to create a better decentralized currency and their current goals. So I was expunged from the private discussion forum and to the best of my understanding, it ended amicably submitting to factual reality.

It is possible that AltcoinUK is rationalizing to himself that anything I will work on is doomed to failure because I decided not to change my focus and adopt a more business-targeted focus that their group is considering (in addition to I presume continuing GadgetCoin). In other words, he might possibly be allowing his feelings dominate his objective open-minded analysis. But I am not accusing him of anything, just saying it is a possibility.

I wrote upthread that I would not entertain discussions about vaporware, but I will respond to allegations/theories/conjecture asserting that all my plans are shit.

First of all, AltcoinUK is not privy to all the details of my plans. I am by no means planning to airdrop coins to n00bs in the third world market and leave it at that. That of course would fail, because there is nothing to spend the coins on and thus no ecosystem is created.

I don't need to tell AltcoinUK my precise plans, because when he sees them in action, he will quickly understand how wrong he was. As I said, only action counts and if and when that action comes from me, then it will be extremely clear there is no P&D because the adoption will be spreading all over the world at a viral pace. It will be quite clear to everyone that I have won. And then finally I can say to all my detractors, "STFU"! But I won't have any hard feelings towards AltcoinUK because I can understand (the justifiable reasons) why he is thinking and feeling the way he is.

Btw, I expect all of you to be shocked as to the developer(s) that will be working with me shortly. Smooth is a pindot in the specific industry I am targeting (although I presume smooth is highly sought expert and magnanimous in the industry where he has focused his career) compared to these guys who have a very strong incentive to work with me. Note I am not fighting with smooth. I am advising Monero to get more focused on corporate block chain privacy (with specific admonishment to study more closely Zerocash's technology), because afaics that is the best potential market for them and their developers' experience is in server work for corporations and I can see now that they were really trying to adopt Linus Torvald's model for open source development, but IMHO the mistake they made was replacing corporate funding with speculators. This is what is screwing up their technological focus and prognosis.

AltcoinUK, please note that my advice and insight to Monero partially derives from what I learned from talking to your group. So you can see I am still trying to advance the things that your corporate target markets need, even though I won't be the one developing those corporate block chain privacy solutions. Hopefully your group will pick up on my cue and find your role and place within that.

As for my work, I have been in the midst of massive strategic thinking mode for the past 3 - 4 weeks, trying to nail down exactly what I am doing. I am happy to conclude, it has all finally gelled for me. But again, I don't want to speculate on vaporware. If the action comes, you will know it.

Please do note that the technologies I am working are not marketing gimicks and are absolutely required to achieve the adoption I am targeting. This will all be clear at the appropriate time.

Everyone knows my complete name is Shelby Moore III. If any P&D comes out of my efforts, then you can take it to me personally. I can't hide. I am a USA citizen.

Again I want everyone to remember I am not creating software and tokens targeting investors (although no one can entirely control what exchange markets do). I am targeting mass markets for decentralized applications. I am targeting a for-use token that enables decentralized applications that COULD NOT BE ACHIEVED ANY OTHER WAY.

From all this said about AltcoinUK I can conclude that I was right in my assumptions about AltcoinUK.

At first he looked as a schoolboy who missed Nxt train and because of that started to hate me. He heavily used strong language and attempted to insult me what a mature person wouldn't do. While he was posting outright lies about me and my project it wasn't alarming, it's a normal behavior of those who lost opportunities to become successful. But then I noticed that he tries to ruin any cooperation between GadgetCoin and Iota, in parallel he was hinting that he knows serious investors who could promote GadgetCoin. When I asked for a single sign that he really knows those people he derailed the conversation distracting attention to other things.

Now in retrospective his behavior makes perfect sense. One who would want to earn reputation to conduct a large-scale scam would behave in the same way. He would also cut all business connections that he doesn't control and would make himself appear to be a big guy.

PS: There is still a chance that he is just one of those screaming "scam!" on all successful projects that he didn't invest into, not a scammer. But anyway, I would watch him very closely if I had business with him, he already showed his childish nature...

[TPTB_need_war]

CfB, I don't want some information to come to you from behind my back, so I will tell you up front and in public. I gave copies to GadgetCoin's group of the private message threats of legal action (against me for speaking freely about unregistered investment securities in the context of your ICO) that your Iota partner David sent to me. I asked them to keep the messages private unless they were required to reveal them by a legal authority. I gave them my opinion that there was technological substance in Iota (but I have since studied your technology in my Decentralization thread and I am still respectful of your technical capabilities but I don't have confidence in the fundamental tech of Iota), but I warned them that IMO David was a very risky person to be involved with based on his rash interaction with me.

I don't want any fight with Iota. I am not going on a crusade against you. The reality will be the reality over time it will all come clear to the markets. I don't need to intervene. It is a free market.

I personally would love to read your statement about your involvement with Nxt if you are so inclined. I am ignorant about what transpired with Nxt. I know vaguely that it was a PoS coin that made something like 100 early adopters fantastic returns. One of the very notable ones was kLee who claimed most of his BTC and Nxt was stolen. When I was contemplating altcoin designs in 2014, kLee was one of the insiders in my Bitmessage group and he was very enthusiastic about investing huge sums of money but I balked at such an early angel investment. I realized at the time I didn't want to get myself hooked into something that I might regret later. Then suddenly he lost all his funds and declared he has suddenly Multiple Sclerosis. Then he later claimed my chronic illness is a lie or something like that (because I didn't have a formal diagnosis perhaps). I heard his wife divorced him and took the rest of his money, but that is just hearsay. And then I read in your Iota thread where kLee says something to the effect that your David and myself would mix like oil and water.

No accusations. I am just pointing out what we all know which is that this crypto arena is a hornets' nest of innuendo and malfeasance. I don't want to add to it, but I also don't want people to accuse me of hidden undesirable associations.

For the record, I am trying my best to deliver a real product for our idealistic goals for crypto. I don't want to be involved in any scam. I do have a financial problem because I have taken a small amount of angel investment and I need to make good on that. And because I am near to bankrupt. I am trying my best to not to be unwittingly involved nor associated with any scam nor P&D.

[altcoinUK]

@TPTB_need_war

There are a few points I would like to add to this discussion

1) I have some investment in GadgetCoin, and therefore I was very happy to see you in the thread. You would bring an incredible amount of expertise and knowledge to that project. It is very unfortunate there won't be  collaboration with you. Though I hope you continue the discussion with the GDC devs in the future. I asked the developers what's happening regarding the collaboration with you, they talked about you with the highest regards and stated they hope the dialogue will continue at some stage in the future.

2) I know very little about your coin. All I know what I read in this forum, and I remember you said somewhere your primary target is the third world and demographics without a bank account. I could be wrong and you could have in fact a different plan. No offence was intended.

3) It was not my intention to imply or say that you would directly and purposefully organise a P&D. All I was trying to say/imply that naturally you will earn money from the coin, most likely it will make you rich while unfortunately the bagholders will lose money. My main issue is that since there is no real economic justification for crypto currencies they will end up as a speculative asset with many begholders at the end of the chain. I understand by default you are a decent and honest man, unlike these JINN & IOTA scammers you have integrity. However, I can see that you are trying to build an alliance for your coin here in BCT, but that means you will naturally end up in working with those very people who know nothing but scam and P&D. You are trying to succeed in this toxic scam microcosmos which will inevitably push your coin to the P&D route. It's shame because I am telling everyone that you could be the one who build a remarkable crypto currency.

I apologise for the tone of my post. It was not a very level headed comment. Sometimes the wankers of this environment like this Belarusian IOTA scammer makes me upset and then I write harsh things about all software developers, but you should be the last person to be offended. You bring a lot to this community and you don't deserve harsh comments nor accusation of wrongdoing.

[TPTB_need_war]

1) I have some investment in GadgetCoin, and therefore I was very happy to see you in the thread. You would bring an incredible amount of expertise and knowledge to that project. It is very unfortunate there won't be  collaboration with you. Though I hope you continue the discussion with the GDC devs in the future. I asked the developers what's happening regarding the collaboration with you, they talked about you with the highest regards and stated they hope the dialogue will continue at some stage in the future.

All possibilities remain open. It isn't impossible that I could end up involved somehow with Zerocash and then targeting corporations. I tried to join the Zerocash forum and was banned, so that wasn't a good start. Perhaps in the future I might try to contact their principles. But I also think there might be too many cooks in their kitchen and perhaps some misguided strategies, so it might end up being easier to just fork their open source. We will have to see what transpires. I nodded to Monero to show their mettle and take the lead, but seems they are balking at the suggestion.

I am first attempting something in the mass market arena.

Agreed our discussions concluded (for the time being) mutually respectful.

2) I know very little about your coin. All I know what I read in this forum, and I remember you said somewhere your primary target is the third world and demographics without a bank account. I could be wrong and you could have in fact a different plan. No offence was intended.

Distinguish between a seed market (or part of the scheme) and the overall scheme. Also it is very unlikely that someone who is working on something confidential will tell anyone all of his strategy, especially we haven't even signed a NDA.

Also I have had several different ideas for incentivizing use of an altcoin since 2014. And I wasn't entirely satisfied with any of them (as evident by what I said in private discussions with your group), but an epiphany arrived on how to combine two of the ideas in a way that is much more convincing to me. We'll have to see if I am correct or not. Actually I was going to abandon the idea you are referring to and go directly to this second more direct aspect of the scheme, but then I realized it violated the economics of how to keep a coin decentralized! So then I realize there was no way to do what I want to do marketing wise, without the technological innovations I am working on. So then I started to feel a bit more smug that I was finally onto to something fundamentally good and sound. But not too smug...still working to find flaws and working on many details.

3) It was not my intention to imply or say that you would directly and purposefully organise a P&D.

Ah yes I also comprehended that but forgot to make it clear that I did. I understood you were saying that despite my best intentions, that my plans (the plans you were privy to) seemed flawed. And so that is why I felt compelled to reply and make a few clarifications.

All I was trying to say/imply that naturally you will earn money from the coin, most likely it will make you rich while unfortunately the bagholders will lose money. My main issue is that since there is no real economic justification for crypto currencies they will end up as a speculative asset with many begholders at the end of the chain.

Well I won't be promoting coins to any speculators. So if anyone finds a way to obtain some tokens, it will be on their own initiative. I am placing on myself the challenge that I must create something that has such a marketing buzz  and real user adoption outside this forum, that speculators become aware of it without me ever telling them. So that hopefully makes it much less likely that there will be bagholders. But again I am making no promises and no representations whatsoever to speculators because I am not creating an investment. I am creating a for-use token with a software that will hopefully enable decentralized applications that could not economically be achieved any other way. That is my goal. So I need to stop talking. I just wanted to make it clear to you (and readers).

I understand by default you are a decent and honest man, unlike these JINN & IOTA scammers you have integrity. However, I can see that you are trying to build an alliance for your coin here in BCT, but that means you will naturally end up in working with those very people who know nothing but scam and P&D.

No I have not made any alliances other than my 2 angel investors. I had no choice. I had to take angel investment and I entirely depleted my savings over the past 3 years that I've been working on this with no income. The amount of $ is quite small and won't burden the token.

And I do not intend to form any more alliances on this forum if at all possible. I might consider working with a developer from this forum, but it is unlikely. I am preferring to find developers from outside of our crypto community.

I totally agree with you that because we have been unable to open adoption markets, we are forced into speculation markets and the ramifications thereof. Note I am not against speculators, I just don't want that to be my target market of my project. If that is the case with no adoption, then I will have failed inspite of any funds I extracted.

You are trying to succeed in this toxic scam microcosmos which will inevitably push your coin to the P&D route. It's shame because I am telling everyone that you could be the one who build a remarkable crypto currency.

If the adoption is growing virally, then it can't be a P&D. But that is a big if. We will see. This is my experiment in crypto.

I apologise for the tone of my post. It was not a very level headed comment. Sometimes the wankers of this environment like this Belarusian IOTA scammer makes me upset and then I write harsh things about all software developers, but you should be the last person to be offended. You bring a lot to this community and you don't deserve harsh comments nor accusation of wrongdoing.

I understood.

Btw, I'd rather not take sides on CfB. Bob Surplus would argue that P&D is the product that speculators want. To each his own. CfB obviously also writes real code. I wouldn't be funded if not for CfB's work (and no he is not my angel investor). Sometimes great things come from less than perfect things. The universe is unpredictable that way.

Edit: I am not condoning any activity. Whoever can win legal or criminal action against activity may do so. That may be one judge of the implications of ethics. I am not the morality police. I have my own ethics which basically revolve around I want to be proud of my actions, I like challenges, and I enjoy to tinker with engineering being intellectually curious. I am very competitive. And I'd like to help us live in a more meritorious and freedom oriented world. I love freedom. I hate the concept of top-down control. Nevertheless I am also pragmatic. I don't view corporations as so evil that I should ignore their needs. We the human race are on a journey and I want to be engaged in it. Corporations may disappear in the future, but for now they are part of human society. Sometimes I go off and do my own isolationist thing, but I am also an extrovert and like society.

[Come-from-Beyond]

@TPTB_need_war

There are a few points I would like to add to this discussion

1) I have some investment in GadgetCoin, and therefore I was very happy to see you in the thread. You would bring an incredible amount of expertise and knowledge to that project. It is very unfortunate there won't be  collaboration with you. Though I hope you continue the discussion with the GDC devs in the future. I asked the developers what's happening regarding the collaboration with you, they talked about you with the highest regards and stated they hope the dialogue will continue at some stage in the future.

2) I know very little about your coin. All I know what I read in this forum, and I remember you said somewhere your primary target is the third world and demographics without a bank account. I could be wrong and you could have in fact a different plan. No offence was intended.

3) It was not my intention to imply or say that you would directly and purposefully organise a P&D. All I was trying to say/imply that naturally you will earn money from the coin, most likely it will make you rich while unfortunately the bagholders will lose money. My main issue is that since there is no real economic justification for crypto currencies they will end up as a speculative asset with many begholders at the end of the chain. I understand by default you are a decent and honest man, unlike these JINN & IOTA scammers you have integrity. However, I can see that you are trying to build an alliance for your coin here in BCT, but that means you will naturally end up in working with those very people who know nothing but scam and P&D. You are trying to succeed in this toxic scam microcosmos which will inevitably push your coin to the P&D route. It's shame because I am telling everyone that you could be the one who build a remarkable crypto currency.

I apologise for the tone of my post. It was not a very level headed comment. Sometimes the wankers of this environment like this Belarusian IOTA scammer makes me upset and then I write harsh things about all software developers, but you should be the last person to be offended. You bring a lot to this community and you don't deserve harsh comments nor accusation of wrongdoing.

I like the main tone of your post. If not those false accusations about me taking part in a scam (by the way, wanna bet that you will fail to provide a proof?), then I would say in the end: "Now hug each other"...

[Come-from-Beyond]

CfB, I don't want some information to come to you from behind my back, so I will tell you up front and in public...

Thank you, honesty is a rare quality these days.

PS: Nxt is a long story, if you still want to hear it in a month, PM me. Now I don't have time to tell it because am working on Iota launch.