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Moloch (OP)
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March 29, 2016, 03:51:25 PM |
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Ah, the bird trick. You've been conned there, buddy. Bernie does nothing but fight for the underdog... the middle-class and poverty stricken... He is basically Jesus, and you fools treat him exactly like the Jews treated Jesus... When is the crucifixion? No, Bernie is not Jesus. He's just a politician, playing the tired old game of pushing socialism. Which, for your information, always does the same thing - it takes money AWAY from the middle class. Always. It will shelter the rich and super rich, because they work with the socialist leaders and are in on the con games. Why must you compare Bernie to... Who are you even comparing him to? Some fears inside your head? Which country or leader are you talking about? You can't seriously throw out some generality like, "all socialist countries ever, were evil", and not back it up Bernie is a social-democrat / democratic-socialist... Which is not socialist, which is not communist... The problem is, people like you tend to make it easy and call everything evil... Because you are ignorant of "the other", and it is easier to hate that which you do not understand, than it is to do some fucking research |
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aardvark15
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March 29, 2016, 04:03:07 PM |
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Ah, the bird trick. You've been conned there, buddy. Bernie does nothing but fight for the underdog... the middle-class and poverty stricken... He is basically Jesus, and you fools treat him exactly like the Jews treated Jesus... When is the crucifixion? No, Bernie is not Jesus. He's just a politician, playing the tired old game of pushing socialism. Which, for your information, always does the same thing - it takes money AWAY from the middle class. Always. It will shelter the rich and super rich, because they work with the socialist leaders and are in on the con games. Actually he wants to overturn Citizens United so that corporations can't buy our politicians. So I think he is the only candidate that is trying to give a voice back to the people rather than the big corporations. This is something all people should want regardless of political affiliation. |
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Spendulus
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March 29, 2016, 04:15:20 PM |
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Ah, the bird trick. You've been conned there, buddy. Bernie does nothing but fight for the underdog... the middle-class and poverty stricken... He is basically Jesus, and you fools treat him exactly like the Jews treated Jesus... When is the crucifixion? No, Bernie is not Jesus. He's just a politician, playing the tired old game of pushing socialism. Which, for your information, always does the same thing - it takes money AWAY from the middle class. Always. It will shelter the rich and super rich, because they work with the socialist leaders and are in on the con games. Why must you compare Bernie to... Who are you even comparing him to? Some fears inside your head? Which country or leader are you talking about? You can't seriously throw out some generality like, "all socialist countries ever, were evil", and not back it up Bernie is a social-democrat / democratic-socialist... Which is not socialist, which is not communist... The problem is, people like you tend to make it easy and call everything evil... Because you are ignorant of "the other", and it is easier to hate that which you do not understand, than it is to do some fucking research Actually it is you that are throwing all the labels around. And thank you very much, but I've traveled extensively in socialist and communist countries, so fuck off with your poor understanding of these concepts. It's laughable, trying to argue "social democrat" and what that is. Here's the key point. I'm going to repeat it for you. Which, for your information, always does the same thing - it takes money AWAY from the middle class. Always. It will shelter the rich and super rich, because they work with the socialist leaders and are in on the con games.Oh, also. Why should I care about some prez not liking "Citizens United?" That's a Supreme Court thing. Duh... |
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chanchel
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March 29, 2016, 04:35:49 PM |
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Free Dope would pick up some votes.
Contrary to establishment propaganda, Bernie isn't giving out anything for free... Although, he will likely legalize weed He's only ~200 delegates behind Hillary... California alone is worth 475... say hello to President Bernie! stop saying he hasn't offered anything for free. https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/Here's your free stuff. When will you wackos figure out that nothing is free. Free tuition!!! Yay, right?!?!?! More social security, yay, right?!?!?!? Extended healthcare coverage, yay, right?!?!?! Anyway, you get the point. Bernie will tax the crap out of everyone, and in so doing will kill job after job after job. Here is what happens: Economic Impact According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, Senator Bernie Sanders’s tax plan would reduce the economy’s size by 9.5 percent in the long run. The plan would lead to 4.3 percent lower wages, an 18.6 percent smaller capital stock, and 6.0 million fewer full-time equivalent jobs. The smaller economy results from higher marginal tax rates on capital and labor income. Table 2. Economic Impact of Senator Sanders’s Tax Reform Proposals GDP -9.5% Capital Investment -18.6% Wage Rate -4.3% Full-time Equivalent Jobs (in thousands) -5,973 Stop saying he hasn't offered anything for free. He wants to extend the welfare state, thats "free food, utilities, etc." Moloch have you ever lived in a socialist country?? Socialism will destroy all innovation in the United States. It will destroy the US. Whose ass did you pull those numbers out of? How could you possibly know how taxes affect GDP, investment rate, etc? 6 million fewer jobs?!? How could you know any of that? What "tax plan" are you even talking about? Bernie has not released any "tax plan"... are you talking about his single-payer insurance plan that he released 2 months ago? Do you even know what you are talking about? No, I have never lived in a socialist country, but I have visited a few of them... I have also done a fair bit of research on socialism... Have you visited a socialist country, or done even the slightest bit of research into socialist policies? Or, are you just saying it's evil because that's what you were told in elementary school? Just goes to show how little you actually know about bernie's proposals, he has released a tax plan (you can find details http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan). You love the utopian idea, but it isn't even a remote possibility. I have lived in Spain and Mexico, both are a travesty not some utopian awesomeness. I run my own business and have several friends that left socialist countries because of their pressure on small businesses. If we go down the road of socialism, our country will die a terrible, agonizing death. |
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Moloch (OP)
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March 29, 2016, 04:37:55 PM |
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Ah, the bird trick. You've been conned there, buddy. Bernie does nothing but fight for the underdog... the middle-class and poverty stricken... He is basically Jesus, and you fools treat him exactly like the Jews treated Jesus... When is the crucifixion? No, Bernie is not Jesus. He's just a politician, playing the tired old game of pushing socialism. Which, for your information, always does the same thing - it takes money AWAY from the middle class. Always. It will shelter the rich and super rich, because they work with the socialist leaders and are in on the con games. Why must you compare Bernie to... Who are you even comparing him to? Some fears inside your head? Which country or leader are you talking about?You can't seriously throw out some generality like, "all socialist countries ever, were evil", and not back it up Bernie is a social-democrat / democratic-socialist... Which is not socialist, which is not communist... The problem is, people like you tend to make it easy and call everything evil... Because you are ignorant of "the other", and it is easier to hate that which you do not understand, than it is to do some fucking research Actually it is you that are throwing all the labels around. And thank you very much, but I've traveled extensively in socialist and communist countries, so fuck off with your poor understanding of these concepts. It's laughable, trying to argue "social democrat" and what that is. Here's the key point. I'm going to repeat it for you. Which, for your information, always does the same thing - it takes money AWAY from the middle class. Always. It will shelter the rich and super rich, because they work with the socialist leaders and are in on the con games.Oh, also. Why should I care about some prez not liking "Citizens United?" That's a Supreme Court thing. Duh... With all that huff and puff trolling, you didn't even answer my question... all you did was try to make yourself sound superior by claiming to have "traveled extensively in socialist and communist countries, so fuck off with your poor understanding of these concepts"... quit your bullshit You also know nothing about Bernie's platform... let me help you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CXxdhlamg8When told he was a single-issue candidate by Hillary, his response was "I am a single-issue candidate, and that issue is the disappearing middle class" That's literally all Bernie fights for is the middle class... |
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tvbcof
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March 29, 2016, 04:38:35 PM |
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...
Which, for your information, always does the same thing - it takes money AWAY from the middle class. Always. It will shelter the rich and super rich, because they work with the socialist leaders and are in on the con games.
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My sense is that lots of people who basically see this have a some nebulous hope/expectation that once 'we' get Socialism in place then we will be able to turn on the rich/super-rich, dis-empower then and shake them down for the good of the collective. The trouble from a realist's point of view is that this basically never happens in any sustaining way. Ultimately, even little temporary 'wins' become more rare as the totalitarian nature of a necessarily tightly controlled and bureaucratically bloated socialist government becomes more entrenched. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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Moloch (OP)
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March 29, 2016, 04:49:28 PM
Last edit: March 29, 2016, 05:14:56 PM by Moloch |
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Free Dope would pick up some votes.
Contrary to establishment propaganda, Bernie isn't giving out anything for free... Although, he will likely legalize weed He's only ~200 delegates behind Hillary... California alone is worth 475... say hello to President Bernie! stop saying he hasn't offered anything for free. https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/Here's your free stuff. When will you wackos figure out that nothing is free. Free tuition!!! Yay, right?!?!?! More social security, yay, right?!?!?!? Extended healthcare coverage, yay, right?!?!?! Anyway, you get the point. Bernie will tax the crap out of everyone, and in so doing will kill job after job after job. Here is what happens: Economic Impact According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, Senator Bernie Sanders’s tax plan would reduce the economy’s size by 9.5 percent in the long run. The plan would lead to 4.3 percent lower wages, an 18.6 percent smaller capital stock, and 6.0 million fewer full-time equivalent jobs. The smaller economy results from higher marginal tax rates on capital and labor income. Table 2. Economic Impact of Senator Sanders’s Tax Reform Proposals GDP -9.5% Capital Investment -18.6% Wage Rate -4.3% Full-time Equivalent Jobs (in thousands) -5,973 Stop saying he hasn't offered anything for free. He wants to extend the welfare state, thats "free food, utilities, etc." Moloch have you ever lived in a socialist country?? Socialism will destroy all innovation in the United States. It will destroy the US. Whose ass did you pull those numbers out of? How could you possibly know how taxes affect GDP, investment rate, etc? 6 million fewer jobs?!? How could you know any of that? What "tax plan" are you even talking about? Bernie has not released any "tax plan"... are you talking about his single-payer insurance plan that he released 2 months ago? Do you even know what you are talking about? No, I have never lived in a socialist country, but I have visited a few of them... I have also done a fair bit of research on socialism... Have you visited a socialist country, or done even the slightest bit of research into socialist policies? Or, are you just saying it's evil because that's what you were told in elementary school? Just goes to show how little you actually know about bernie's proposals, he has released a tax plan (you can find details http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan). You love the utopian idea, but it isn't even a remote possibility. I have lived in Spain and Mexico, both are a travesty not some utopian awesomeness. I run my own business and have several friends that left socialist countries because of their pressure on small businesses. If we go down the road of socialism, our country will die a terrible, agonizing death. Just goes to show how little you actually know... I looked at your link and the numbers they use come solely from Bernie's single-payer insurance plan... in fact, everything does... look at the sources they list for references... there is no "tax plan" listed... it's all stuff in his single-payer insurance plan + random quotes they found on the internet It is also completely inaccurate, let me elaborate: Senator Sanders (I-VT) would enact a number of policies that would raise payroll taxes and individual income taxes, especially on high-income households. This part is actually true... his insurance plan will tax the rich more than the poor Senator Sanders’s plan would raise tax revenue by $13.6 trillion over the next decade on a static basis. However, the plan would end up collecting $9.8 trillion over the next decade when accounting for decreased economic output in the long run. This point is half-true... His single-payer insurance plan has been estimated to cost anywhere between $9 and $13.6 trillion, depending on the source... (obviously they chose the most extreme end) What they neglect to mention is that the current cost of healthcare is $20 trillion during the same decade (if we don't change anything)... so even if Bernie's cost $13.6 trillion, you save $20 trillion, making a net savings of $6.4 trillion over a decade... that is how Bernie saves Americans $5,000 per household per year... yet this article makes it sound like a bad thing The "decreased economic output" is just bullshit nonsense speculation, nothing more... pay no attention to that, it's pulled out of someones ass A majority of the revenue raised by the Sanders plan would come from a new 6.2 percent employer-side payroll tax, a new 2.2 percent broad-based income tax, and the elimination of tax expenditures relating to healthcare. Also half-true... For the same reason... yes, taxes go up, but you and your employer no longer pay $400-1200+ per month in healthcare premiums... this is a replacement, not an extra fee... It's complete slander to say Bernie will raise your taxes without mentioning how much he will save you... Once again, Bernie will save $6.4 trillion according to your source (though they neglect to even mention that once)... if you go with the extreme example on the other side (his plan costing $9 trillion over 10-years)... he will save $11 trillion instead of only saving $6.4 trillion... How is that a bad thing?!? All of his tax changes involve lowering taxes on people making less than $250,000 per year, and raising them on people making more than $3,000,000 per year... how is that bad?!? |
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Spendulus
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March 29, 2016, 05:42:48 PM |
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When told he was a single-issue candidate by Hillary, his response was "I am a single-issue candidate, and that issue is the disappearing middle class"
That's literally all Bernie fights for is the middle class...
What you really don't understand is that the money has to be taken from the middle class, and will be. The puffery about taking it from the rich is NOT what will actually happen. |
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Moloch (OP)
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March 29, 2016, 05:52:23 PM |
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When told he was a single-issue candidate by Hillary, his response was "I am a single-issue candidate, and that issue is the disappearing middle class"
That's literally all Bernie fights for is the middle class...
What you really don't understand is that the money has to be taken from the middle class, and will be. The puffery about taking it from the rich is NOT what will actually happen. Why? The middle-class have no money... There are 62 people who control 50% of the income/money... tax them! It's the only thing that makes sense... you can't tax the poor... we have no money! http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jan/18/richest-62-billionaires-wealthy-half-world-population-combinedI guarantee not a single one of these 62 people is paying even 10% in taxes... It's not about taxing the fuck out of rich people... it's about taxing them the same as everyone else!... they should be paying 25-35%+ in taxes like the middle-class, not 9% like Mitt Romney (who overpaid by $500,000 while running for president, and still only paid 9%!) |
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Spendulus
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March 29, 2016, 07:03:23 PM |
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....
When told he was a single-issue candidate by Hillary, his response was "I am a single-issue candidate, and that issue is the disappearing middle class"
That's literally all Bernie fights for is the middle class...
What you really don't understand is that the money has to be taken from the middle class, and will be. The puffery about taking it from the rich is NOT what will actually happen. Why? The middle-class have no money... There are 62 people who control 50% of the income/money... tax them! It's the only thing that makes sense... you can't tax the poor... we have no money!.... Oh, the middle class still has a lot of money. They have not been completely hollowed out yet. For an example of that, look at Argentina. The elitists in Washington DC know who they will pull money from. The middle class. Because the billionaires pull the strings. |
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Moloch (OP)
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March 29, 2016, 07:06:19 PM |
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When told he was a single-issue candidate by Hillary, his response was "I am a single-issue candidate, and that issue is the disappearing middle class"
That's literally all Bernie fights for is the middle class...
What you really don't understand is that the money has to be taken from the middle class, and will be. The puffery about taking it from the rich is NOT what will actually happen. Why? The middle-class have no money... There are 62 people who control 50% of the income/money... tax them! It's the only thing that makes sense... you can't tax the poor... we have no money!.... Oh, the middle class still has a lot of money. They have not been completely hollowed out yet. For an example of that, look at Argentina. The elitists in Washington DC know who they will pull money from. The middle class. Because the billionaires pull the strings. Why do you think they are spending so much money to smear and slander Bernie Sanders (and partially Trump as well)? They cannot stand the thought of a non-establishment president... he might actually start taxing the rich... well... Bernie might... The only reason taxes are so high on the middle-class is because the rich only pay 5-9% in taxes... which makes the middle-class shoulder the burden and pay 35%+ in many cases If rich people were taxed at 35% instead of 5%, the middle-class would only have to pay 20% instead of 35%... novel concept, eh? |
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Olaf
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March 29, 2016, 07:39:36 PM |
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Free Dope would pick up some votes.
Contrary to establishment propaganda, Bernie isn't giving out anything for free... Although, he will likely legalize weed He's only ~200 delegates behind Hillary... California alone is worth 475... say hello to President Bernie! stop saying he hasn't offered anything for free. https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/Here's your free stuff. When will you wackos figure out that nothing is free. Free tuition!!! Yay, right?!?!?! More social security, yay, right?!?!?!? Extended healthcare coverage, yay, right?!?!?! Anyway, you get the point. Bernie will tax the crap out of everyone, and in so doing will kill job after job after job. Here is what happens: Economic Impact According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, Senator Bernie Sanders’s tax plan would reduce the economy’s size by 9.5 percent in the long run. The plan would lead to 4.3 percent lower wages, an 18.6 percent smaller capital stock, and 6.0 million fewer full-time equivalent jobs. The smaller economy results from higher marginal tax rates on capital and labor income. Table 2. Economic Impact of Senator Sanders’s Tax Reform Proposals GDP -9.5% Capital Investment -18.6% Wage Rate -4.3% Full-time Equivalent Jobs (in thousands) -5,973 Stop saying he hasn't offered anything for free. He wants to extend the welfare state, thats "free food, utilities, etc." Moloch have you ever lived in a socialist country?? Socialism will destroy all innovation in the United States. It will destroy the US. Whose ass did you pull those numbers out of? How could you possibly know how taxes affect GDP, investment rate, etc? 6 million fewer jobs?!? How could you know any of that? What "tax plan" are you even talking about? Bernie has not released any "tax plan"... are you talking about his single-payer insurance plan that he released 2 months ago? Do you even know what you are talking about? No, I have never lived in a socialist country, but I have visited a few of them... I have also done a fair bit of research on socialism... Have you visited a socialist country, or done even the slightest bit of research into socialist policies? Or, are you just saying it's evil because that's what you were told in elementary school? Just goes to show how little you actually know about bernie's proposals, he has released a tax plan (you can find details http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan). You love the utopian idea, but it isn't even a remote possibility. I have lived in Spain and Mexico, both are a travesty not some utopian awesomeness. I run my own business and have several friends that left socialist countries because of their pressure on small businesses. If we go down the road of socialism, our country will die a terrible, agonizing death. Yup, Socialism sucks. If we are talking about socialism, I assume everyone forgot about what 2008 financial crisis was about. Or didnt know the situation how banks got bailed = socialism. People dont know the difference.. true capitalism is when business fail they get no hand outs lol. |
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Moloch (OP)
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March 29, 2016, 07:42:14 PM |
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Yup, Socialism sucks.
If we are talking about socialism, I assume everyone forgot about what 2008 financial crisis was about.
Or didnt know the situation how banks got bailed = socialism. People dont know the difference.. true capitalism is when business fail they get no hand outs lol.
You have that exactly backwards... In capitalism... the rich bankers who caused the crisis get bailed out (America) In democratic-socialism... the rich bankers who caused the crisis go to jail, and the citizens get bailed out (Iceland) www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/10/24/if-iceland-can-jail-bankers-for-the-crash-then-why-cant-america |
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Spendulus
Legendary
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March 29, 2016, 11:29:13 PM |
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....
When told he was a single-issue candidate by Hillary, his response was "I am a single-issue candidate, and that issue is the disappearing middle class"
That's literally all Bernie fights for is the middle class...
What you really don't understand is that the money has to be taken from the middle class, and will be. The puffery about taking it from the rich is NOT what will actually happen. Why? The middle-class have no money... There are 62 people who control 50% of the income/money... tax them! It's the only thing that makes sense... you can't tax the poor... we have no money!.... Oh, the middle class still has a lot of money. They have not been completely hollowed out yet. For an example of that, look at Argentina. The elitists in Washington DC know who they will pull money from. The middle class. Because the billionaires pull the strings. Why do you think they are spending so much money to smear and slander Bernie Sanders (and partially Trump as well)? They cannot stand the thought of a non-establishment president... he might actually start taxing the rich... well... Bernie might... The only reason taxes are so high on the middle-class is because the rich only pay 5-9% in taxes... which makes the middle-class shoulder the burden and pay 35%+ in many cases If rich people were taxed at 35% instead of 5%, the middle-class would only have to pay 20% instead of 35%... novel concept, eh? No, this argument has gone on for a hundred years, and clearly you know nothing of that. Novel to you. None of what you have said is remotely true. Bernie does not have the capability to tax the rich. The Congress and Senate are rich people. They will not allow that. Got it? By the way, the average tax paid over many decades is 20-24%, regardless of the tax rates. What they do is produce a politically correct tax rate, like say 70%, but then slip into the budget bill at the last minute a bunch of loopholes, and the rich people wind up paying less, not more. Would you like to get real and stop saying things that are ridiculous? |
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Mike Christ
aka snapsunny
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March 30, 2016, 05:16:48 AM |
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Yup, Socialism sucks.
If we are talking about socialism, I assume everyone forgot about what 2008 financial crisis was about.
Or didnt know the situation how banks got bailed = socialism. People dont know the difference.. true capitalism is when business fail they get no hand outs lol.
You have that exactly backwards... In capitalism... the rich bankers who caused the crisis get bailed out (America) In democratic-socialism... the rich bankers who caused the crisis go to jail, and the citizens get bailed out (Iceland) www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/10/24/if-iceland-can-jail-bankers-for-the-crash-then-why-cant-americaYou're not thinking about what entity does the bailing out. In both the case between America and Iceland, it was the socialistic element which does the bailing out, it is the interventionist; the capitalistic element can, at best, influence these decisions made by the socialist element, which all depends on where the power in the market is concentrated; in the case of America with its "quantitative easing", this would be banks, so of course the banks would bail themselves out. It's the same socialistic element which allowed such a crisis to occur at all through superceding the citizen's right to regulate their own economy. What you're calling "capitalism" and "socialism" are your own original definitions of these terms. Personal definitions are useless because there is no common understanding as to what you mean when you say e.g. "socialism"; for example, if I choose to refer to a piano as a "banana", and I tell people that I can play the banana, they will rightfully question what I am actually saying; it's better to just call a piano a "piano." So let's recap what these words actually mean: so·cial·ism (sō′shə-lĭz′əm)
n.
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which the means of production are collectively owned but a completely classless society has not yet been achieved. cap·i·tal·ism (kăp′ĭ-tl-ĭz′əm)
n.
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market. From this we can conclude: 1. Iceland is not an example of socialism, by every standard it is considered a "mixed economy", which is essentially a mixture of both capitalism and socialism: Iceland has a mixed economy with high levels of free trade and government intervention. mixed economy
n.
An economic system that allows for the simultaneous operation of publicly and privately owned enterprises. If you want an example of a real socialist nation--by the common definition, not by your own original definition--you can look at North Korea or Venezeula today, or Cambodia or the Soviet Union of the past, among other examples which you can find here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_statesChina
Cuba
Laos
Vietnam
Bangladesh
India
North Korea
Nepal
The common thread? They're all shitholes with grinding poverty and extreme wealth/influence inequality. 2. America is not an example of a capitalist nation. Again, it has a mixed economy, with elements of both capitalism and socialism. The United States has a mixed economy The nations closest to being capitalist would be Singapore and Hong Kong: Singapore has a highly developed trade-oriented market economy.[15][16] Singapore's economy has been ranked as the most open in the world,[17] 7th least corrupt,[18] most pro-business,[19] with low tax rates (14.2% of Gross Domestic Product, GDP)[20] and has the third highest per-capita GDP in the world; in terms of Purchasing Power Parity (PPP). A market economy is an economy in which decisions regarding investment, production, and distribution are based on market determined supply and demand,[1] and prices of goods and services are determined in a free price system.[2] The major defining characteristic of a market economy is that investment decisions and the allocation of producer goods are mainly made by cooperative negotiation through markets.[3] This is contrasted with a so-called planned economy, where investment and production decisions are embodied in a plan of production established by a state or other body with control over economic resources. |
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Gronthaing
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March 30, 2016, 07:09:31 AM |
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so·cial·ism (sō′shə-lĭz′əm)
n.
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which the means of production are collectively owned but a completely classless society has not yet been achieved. If you want an example of a real socialist nation--by the common definition, not by your own original definition--you can look at North Korea or Venezeula today, or Cambodia or the Soviet Union of the past, among other examples which you can find here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_statesThere is a reason the wiki link says it is "a list of self-declared socialist states". There are many definitions for socialism. But if it includes that production and distribution is owned by the people, through a government or not, it doesn't make sense to say the soviet union was socialist for example. The people had no say on how things were done. The capitalists were replaced by government appointed agents. And if the people had power over government ok. But that wasn't the case. It was an authoritarian government. A better description is it was a form of state capitalism. The state owned and controlled companies and laws managing them without responding to the people. |
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Moloch (OP)
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March 30, 2016, 03:38:17 PM |
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You're not thinking about what entity does the bailing out. In both the case between America and Iceland, it was the socialistic element which does the bailing out, it is the interventionist; the capitalistic element can, at best, influence these decisions made by the socialist element...
In other words... when America does something you like, it's because of capitalism... and when America does anything you don't like, it's because of socialism? Seems legit... It must be easy to "blame the other" for all your problems, eh? |
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bryant.coleman
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April 03, 2016, 07:05:12 AM |
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He's only ~200 delegates behind Hillary... California alone is worth 475... say hello to President Bernie!
He is 263 delegates behind Hitlery (701, if the super-delegates are also counted). Also, the California democratic primary is semi-closed, and that means that a lot of Bernie supporters will not be allowed to vote. The Clinton machinery is very strong in that state, and I will be really surprised if Bernie manages to outperform Clinton there. |
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Spendulus
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2926
Merit: 1386
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April 04, 2016, 07:19:11 PM |
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He's only ~200 delegates behind Hillary... California alone is worth 475... say hello to President Bernie!
He is 263 delegates behind Hitlery (701, if the super-delegates are also counted). Also, the California democratic primary is semi-closed, and that means that a lot of Bernie supporters will not be allowed to vote. The Clinton machinery is very strong in that state, and I will be really surprised if Bernie manages to outperform Clinton there. You mean he is 263 delegates behind if you don't count the delegates that count? The ones that will decide everything? Okay... |
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IluhaHA
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April 04, 2016, 07:22:04 PM |
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I think Hillary is the best for united states she will make country's social policy perfect.
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