Racism, Freedom of speech and ownership of information

[MysteryMiner]

You frighten me because I think you’re serious.

No, retarded kids with retarded parents in retarded society scares me! Totally serious about nigger, cartoons, belt. And probably serious about last two items. I know people who killed other people with axes or kitchen knifes (because firearms are effectively banned in my country) and now they are in prison. They all started as kids hitting other kids.

[1715288891]

1715288891

[QuestionAuthority]

You frighten me because I think you’re serious.

No, retarded kids with retarded parents in retarded society scares me! Totally serious about nigger, cartoons, belt. And probably serious about last two items. I know people who killed other people with axes or kitchen knifes (because firearms are effectively banned in my country) and now they are in prison. They all started as kids hitting other kids.

So have you ever attempted to befriend a black person? Human beings have a tendency to react to stimulus. Approaching someone with the preconception that they are “niggers” will, in all likelihood, elicit the response you expect.

Any violence against children is wrong and you can’t rationalize it by claiming that it will eventually benefit the child. Period!

http://www.psy.miami.edu/faculty/dmessinger/c_c/rsrcs/rdgs/peers_social_general/margolin.exposure2violence.curdir.04.pdf

[myrkul]

So have you ever attempted to befriend a black person?

No. Thank God there is no niggers in my country and Im not forced to see them or befriend on daily basis. Few of them are locked in illegal immigrant detention center or are rich spokespersons for foreign organizations trying to introduce multiculturalism and nigger loving in my country.

Why the melanin hate, man? Black people are still people.

[QuestionAuthority]

So have you ever attempted to befriend a black person?

No. Thank God there is no niggers in my country and Im not forced to see them or befriend on daily basis. Few of them are locked in illegal immigrant detention center or are rich spokespersons for foreign organizations trying to introduce multiculturalism and nigger loving in my country.

Ok, you were mildly frightening before. You have crossed the line to horrifically terrifying. I can only hope, for the sake of humanity at large, that you are sterile.

[Kluge]

So have you ever attempted to befriend a black person?

No. Thank God there is no niggers in my country and Im not forced to see them or befriend on daily basis. Few of them are locked in illegal immigrant detention center or are rich spokespersons for foreign organizations trying to introduce multiculturalism and nigger loving in my country.

You live in Iceland?

[MysteryMiner]

I can only hope, for the sake of humanity at large, that you are sterile.

No I will have kids. And they will get belt if they are going to hit other kids for no reason. Except when they are hitting negroes.

The problem most likely are bad examples from cartoons at very young age. When I grew up the cartoons were not violent before iron curtain fell. The kids were playing war games with toy guns but they were not physically harming each other at any age.

[evolve]

Thank God there is no niggers in my country and Im not forced to see them or befriend on daily basis. Few of them are locked in illegal immigrant detention center or are rich spokespersons for foreign organizations trying to introduce multiculturalism and nigger loving in my country.

Wow.

You are an awful human being (and should probably kill yourself).

Seriously.

[myrkul]

Thank God there is no niggers in my country and Im not forced to see them or befriend on daily basis. Few of them are locked in illegal immigrant detention center or are rich spokespersons for foreign organizations trying to introduce multiculturalism and nigger loving in my country.

Wow.

You are an awful human being (and should probably kill yourself).

Seriously.

I disagree about killing himself, but he should definitely not reproduce.

[Anon136]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

Did you consider demanding that the other parent should pay your child damages? After all your child was damaged. I can guarantee you the hitting would end pretty quickly after just a couple of damage payments.

[myrkul]

so, my son's uncle is 3.5 years old.
and every single time they play together, he hits my son on the head with a toy or something...
His parents give him time-outs or wtv. but it doesn't work, he literately will go hit my son again 1 min later
So he smacked my son today, and I smacked him.  
this caused a bit of a fuse.... ya sure its not my kid and i shouldn't be disciplining him.... wtv... i got mad he got smacked, big deal.
its been like a year we keep explaining to him that what he's doing is "not nice" I'm fed up.
if it was my kid always hitting a smaller kid, I'd smack him!

"Parents need to bring back the belt!"

your thoughts...  

Did you consider demanding that the other parent should pay your child damages? After all your child was damaged. I can guarantee you the hitting would end pretty quickly after just a couple of damage payments.

That's not a bad idea, actually.

[evolve]

Whites invented electricity.

You aren't very bright, are you?

[Anon136]

Whites invented electricity.

You aren't very bright, are you?

Isaac newton was white so whites invented gravity also! thank god for us white people! blacks should bow down at our feet after all if it wasn't for us they would all float away into space and freeze to death.

[myrkul]

he should definitely not reproduce.

I definitely will reproduce white children! White race should not fade away.

Whites invented space flight. Blacks invented gangbang.
All great Renaissance Man were white europeans. Meanwhile blacks were slaves.
Whites invented electricity. Blacks invented how to use electricity to accelerate ganja growth.

A black man invented the carbon filament. A white man put it in his lightbulb.
A black man invented Peanut butter. White kids eat it on white bread.
A black man invented the gas mask. White men invented mustard gas.
The same black man invented the traffic signal. White men blow through it and cause wrecks.

We could go back and forth like this for hours. Let's just not judge people on their skin color, and instead look at their actions, yes?

[jasinlee]

he should definitely not reproduce.

I definitely will reproduce white children! White race should not fade away.

Whites invented space flight. Blacks invented gangbang.
All great Renaissance Man were white europeans. Meanwhile blacks were slaves.
Whites invented electricity. Blacks invented how to use electricity to accelerate ganja growth.

This list is endless. As You see the intelligence is characteristic to some races. According to scientists intelligence itself might not be the goal of evolution but single freak accident of nature. So with whites losing role in world the future looks bad for human race as a whole.

The dumb kids made by media brainwash are just another nail in the coffin of intelligent and sovereign human.

Define white for me, for example am I white? My ancestry is swedish, welsh, german, cherokee indian 1/4th, and my great grandfather on my mothers side was jewish but not sure the country but he was born in tennessee. I would consider myself to have no particular race....since such a thing is only tracked by people who need a reason to feel superior. All your essentially saying is that you were the product of selective breeding. So if black people are a result of the opposite, you would basically be the equivalent to a human dog pedigree show.

[myrkul]

he should definitely not reproduce.

I definitely will reproduce white children! White race should not fade away.

Whites invented space flight. Blacks invented gangbang.
All great Renaissance Man were white europeans. Meanwhile blacks were slaves.
Whites invented electricity. Blacks invented how to use electricity to accelerate ganja growth.

This list is endless. As You see the intelligence is characteristic to some races. According to scientists intelligence itself might not be the goal of evolution but single freak accident of nature. So with whites losing role in world the future looks bad for human race as a whole.

The dumb kids made by media brainwash are just another nail in the coffin of intelligent and sovereign human.

Define white for me, for example am I white? My ancestry is swedish, welsh, german, cherokee indian 1/4th, and my great grandfather on my mothers side was jewish but not sure the country but he was born in tennessee. I would consider myself to have no particular race....since such a thing is only tracked by people who need a reason to feel superior. All your essentially saying is that you were the product of selective breeding. So if black people are a result of the opposite, you would basically be the equivalent to a human dog pedigree show.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

he should definitely not reproduce.

I definitely will reproduce white children! White race should not fade away.

Whites invented space flight. Blacks invented gangbang.
All great Renaissance Man were white europeans. Meanwhile blacks were slaves.
Whites invented electricity. Blacks invented how to use electricity to accelerate ganja growth.

This list is endless. As You see the intelligence is characteristic to some races. According to scientists intelligence itself might not be the goal of evolution but single freak accident of nature. So with whites losing role in world the future looks bad for human race as a whole.

The dumb kids made by media brainwash are just another nail in the coffin of intelligent and sovereign human.

Define white for me, for example am I white? My ancestry is swedish, welsh, german, cherokee indian 1/4th, and my great grandfather on my mothers side was jewish but not sure the country but he was born in tennessee. I would consider myself to have no particular race....since such a thing is only tracked by people who need a reason to feel superior. All your essentially saying is that you were the product of selective breeding. So if black people are a result of the opposite, you would basically be the equivalent to a human dog pedigree show.

Why must I always be the one who fixes shit around here?

[John (John K.)]

No racism talks here. Posts concerned have been deleted. Please consider this as a warning.

[MysteryMiner]

Fuck You John! Then delete also the replies that promote racial blindness.

It was never the problem to discuss politics here on Bitcointalk. You are censor.

[Third Way]

Come on John, don't be a fascist. Racist or otherwise, bitcoins are here for all, however questionable anyone's beliefs or motives or creeds are.


I may not agree with what he says, but I will defend to the deat his right to say it, as long as it's not and please excuse what Ill type:"gas the kikes, race war now".


Voltaire has taught me tolerance for disagreeable words anmd speech, why can't the forum do the same? We all want our own slice of freedumbs.


God I want some macdonalds right now.

[Edit]
Also yes, Evolve I agree with your private forum argument. It's true censorship can be had here as per agreement in using the forum.

[evolve]

Personally, I don't feel any sympathy for the racist asshole.

This is a privately owned forum, and as such, they are free to moderate speech however they want.  This isnt 4chan, and this type of shit does nothing to benefit BTC, it just makes us all look bad.

If he wants to spout racist bullshit, he can take that shit to stormfront or some other neo-nazi hate website.

[MysteryMiner]

Now this thread is completely derailed.

Freedom of speech is one of few things that is absolute. In forum that deals with outlawed crypto currency of future, where half-crazy libertarians discuss gun politics, where Chinese sells knockoffs and Rumanian hacker sells hacked accounts. In this same forum discussing the behaviour of niggers and defending my point of view about nationality, race and ancestry, my posts are censored. They were not censored year ago. In same time the fuckwit multiculturalist posts are left victorious. I was calling to delete them too not because i want to censor them, but because one wrong opinion not be left standing victorious over my right opinion!

I consider bringing this forum offline for few hours. If the freedom of speech is selective freedom, then I will select to silence everyone. This will give admins time to think about this issue.

Only time I got deleted here is because I offered DDoS for money. I got PM explaining it and I was told that it will be OK if I offered this for free. In same time posting pictures of tribesman is not allowed! Fuck You hard!

[Third Way]

he should definitely not reproduce.

I definitely will reproduce white children! White race should not fade away.

Whites invented space flight. Blacks invented gangbang.
All great Renaissance Man were white europeans. Meanwhile blacks were slaves.
Whites invented electricity. Blacks invented how to use electricity to accelerate ganja growth.

A black man invented the carbon filament. A white man put it in his lightbulb.
A black man invented Peanut butter. White kids eat it on white bread.
A black man invented the gas mask. White men invented mustard gas.
The same black man invented the traffic signal. White men blow through it and cause wrecks.

We could go back and forth like this for hours. Let's just not judge people on their skin color, and instead look at their actions, yes?

>Carbon filament
English chemist/physicist Joseph Swan experimented with a carbon-filament incandescent light all the way back in 1860, and by 1878 had developed a better design which he patented in Britain.

Thomas Edison developed a successful carbon-filament bulb, receiving a patent for it (#223898) in January 1880, before Lewis Latimer did any work in electric lighting.

I like to think I know about light bulbs. But that's all I had to add.  

[myrkul]

>Carbon filament
English chemist/physicist Joseph Swan experimented with a carbon-filament incandescent light all the way back in 1860, and by 1878 had developed a better design which he patented in Britain.

Thomas Edison developed a successful carbon-filament bulb, receiving a patent for it (#223898) in January 1880, before Lewis Latimer did any work in electric lighting.

That's what I get for using data from a school curriculum website. I stand corrected.

[evolve]

Freedom of speech is one of few things that is absolute. ...

blah blah

....
I consider bringing this forum offline for few hours. If the freedom of speech is selective freedom, then I will select to silence everyone. This will give admins time to think about this issue.

Freedom of speech doesn't apply to privately owned forums.

Good job being an internet tough-guy though.

[MysteryMiner]

Also yes, Evolve I agree with your private forum argument. It's true censorship can be had here as per agreement in using the forum.

Private forum is when it is run on localhost only or have no connection to outside internet. If someone decides to serve something publicly for other internet users to use then it is no more private but public and he have responsibilities. It is like waiting till bus is full of passengers and then deviating from route or starting to touch 16 year old girls just because they are on his private bus!

If it responds to port scan, it is not private.

If he wants to spout racist bullshit, he can take that shit to stormfront or some other neo-nazi hate website.

It is not bullshit, I only told facts. I'm not neo-nazi, I'm traditional national socialist. It is not productive to spend time talking with same minded people on stormfront or similar places. Talking to different minded people and making them to believe my ideology is the productive thing.

[evolve]

Also yes, Evolve I agree with your private forum argument. It's true censorship can be had here as per agreement in using the forum.

Private forum is when it is run on localhost only or have no connection to outside internet. If someone decides to serve something publicly for other internet users to use then it is no more private but public and he have responsibilities. It is like waiting till bus is full of passengers and then deviating from route or starting to touch 16 year old girls just because they are on his private bus!

If it responds to port scan, it is not private.

Bullshit. When you join a forum, you agree to the TOS set by the forums admin and owners.  This forum is owned by Mt.Gox, and they have the right to restrict service in any way they choose.

If you dont like it, open your own forum. Free Market, bitch.

It is not bullshit, I only told facts. I'm not neo-nazi, I'm traditional national socialist. It is not productive to spend time talking with same minded people on stormfront or similar places. Talking to different minded people and making them to believe my ideology is the productive thing.

Facts? Dude, you claimed that "whites" invented electricity....you dont even seem to have a firm grasp on reality, much less facts.

For the record, being a regular nazi isnt any better than being a neo nazi.

[myrkul]

Also yes, Evolve I agree with your private forum argument. It's true censorship can be had here as per agreement in using the forum.

Private forum is when it is run on localhost only or have no connection to outside internet. If someone decides to serve something publicly for other internet users to use then it is no more private but public and he have responsibilities. It is like waiting till bus is full of passengers and then deviating from route or starting to touch 16 year old girls just because they are on his private bus!

If it responds to port scan, it is not private.

So McDonalds, because they open their doors to the public, isn't privately owned? I'm sure they'll be surprised to discover this.

[MysteryMiner]

Bullshit. When you join a forum, you agree to the TOS set by the forums admin and owners.

The ToS are non-applicable in any form by law, at least where I live. They are mandatory and force arbitrary rules that cannot be negotiated case-by-case as required for true contract. Contract can be written paper with optional verification or contract can be mutually agreed with two independent witnesses.

I can create and inject JavaScript dialog box that tells that the user agree to visit me and lick my anus after pressing OK button and the OK button will be the only button available that allows him to proceed to use his computer. He agreed to text shown on computer screen, is he now obligated to find me to voluntary lick my anus? The same with nag screens, ToS and other nuisances that leave no choice and only impede the functioning of internet.

This forum is owned by Mt.Gox, and they have the right to restrict service in any way they choose.

Total bullshit. From whattime it is owned by Mt.Gox? This forum can only be owned by Goatse and probably will.

If you dont like it, open your own forum. Free Market, bitch.

It is a hard challenge to copy whole Bitcointalk database. Hosting it will be an extreme measure but will do it if the forum deviates too much from ideals.

Dude, you claimed that "whites" invented electricity....you dont even seem to have a firm grasp on reality, much less facts.

The electrification of western world was done by white inventors and engineers. If electrification in USA was done by black slaves setting up poles and wires, it does not mean that the inventions were made by negroes. I never told that the electricity was invented like gravity (lol), it existed as fundamental force of nature before being put to use. Sorry English is not my native language and sometimes i find hard to find words to describe something.

For the record, being a regular nazi isnt any better than being a neo nazi.

The worst shit on earth are multiculturalists and liberals. Nazis are the cure, antibiotics for this disease. I hate multiculturalists and contrary to popular belief I don't hate the niggers. I'm just glad we live in different continents.

[MysteryMiner]

So McDonalds, because they open their doors to the public, isn't privately owned? I'm sure they'll be surprised to discover this.

The cyberspace and meatspace operates under different rules because it is fundamentally different. Narrow minded people trying to enforce real life rules and problems in cyberspace are making only problems. You just made yourself fool.

[drakahn]

So McDonalds, because they open their doors to the public, isn't privately owned? I'm sure they'll be surprised to discover this.

The cyberspace and meatspace operates under different rules because it is fundamentally different. Narrow minded people trying to enforce real life rules and problems in cyberspace are making only problems. You just made yourself fool.

Are you claiming this forum is not owned by a private entity?

[Third Way]

Oh no dude, Mcdonalds because I'm johnesin for a burger right now, and I don't like burger king. So I ate a uncooked can of spaghetti noodle.

[MysteryMiner]

Are you claiming this forum is not owned by a private entity?

The physical servers running this forum is owned by pirate entity with no questions. The server chassis, motherboards, CPU chips and so on.

But the information, the intangible part of this forum is owned by people who create them. Information cannot be owned by single entity! Without users and the collective knowledge this forum will be empty and useless.

I put big efforts to write my posts. If my posts are deleted, my work is destroyed. If they are deleted for technical reasons such as to free up memory (640K should be enough), it might be acceptable. If my posts are deleted because some scumbag disagrees with my opinion and even worse he promotes his own wrong one, it is a spit in my face. Or any other users face who got his posts deleted. In real life he will be punched in face. In cyberworld he might end up hacked or goatsed in some other way.

The owners might decide on maintenance works, they have various privileges and so on, but they are the voluntary self-elected servants of people, not the dictators and tyrants who banhammer users for fun or when requested by some faggot. And as a result users need to use self-censorship and work around stupid rules just to get some use of the internet.

[drakahn]

You are free to keep a backup of your writing to post elsewhere... so ... no problem then

[MysteryMiner]

You are free to keep a backup of your writing to post elsewhere... so ... no problem then

As You probably noticed, the forum is special case where threads are interconnected. People interact and the posts without other writings are out-of-context.

Stop defending the usurpation of information!

[myrkul]

I put big efforts to write my posts.

Yes, I can see that.

I have bad news for you: If you don't have an admin login, if you don't pay the server space bills, it's not your forum.

And the people whose forum it is, they make the rules. Not you.

[John (John K.)]

It's one of the forum policies that state we do not condone any crazy stances like racism. Bitcoin is after all an international effort.
You are free to start your own forum and state your own policies there.

Is this a threat? Which group are you affiliated with? From what I've gathered, most groups have an anti-policy against racism.

Hi! We can take this easy. Delete also answers that promote multiculturalism. Otherwise I will start DDoS against bitcointalk.org and github. You probably seen some of my actions against enemies of bitcoin, wikileaks, ED and so on.

[drakahn]

judge skill, not colour

[MysteryMiner]

I have bad news for you: If you don't have an admin login, it's not your forum.

If I get login to admin page, this will become my forum? Probably it will become in my sense, but not in Your narrow minded meatspace bound opinion.

if you don't pay the server space bills, it's not your forum.

Running forum nowadays costs next to nothing. Flat rate high speed connection 35$ per month. Usually I consume about few hundred GB per month. Most of the time the connection is utilized below 10%. Very large forum can be run by dual CPU server based on Pentium4 or similar. Such hardware now often are given for almost free. The electricity can be free too. Yet the forum receives donations and justifies the usurpation of information by server costs! Hypocrites!

And the people whose forum it is, they make the rules. Not you.

They are wrong. They don't make rules. The Suit makes the rules and the sheep faggots follow. They did not ban CP, the Suit banned CP. The same with CC and so on.

[MysteryMiner]

It's one of the forum policies that state we do not condone any crazy stances like racism.

The users opinions not always matches opinions of site operator. This is understandable and OK for most parts of world, except Russia and now probably USA.

Bitcoin is after all an international effort.

International Yes. Internet is international lol. But I suspect there is no niggers working in Bitcoin development team. There must be more niggers than whites because niggers are larger percentage of world population than whites? Why? (I already know the answer!)

You are free to start your own forum and state your own policies there

Already did it numerous times in last 10 years on both clearnet and onion land. Most of time absolute freedom works well with notable exception white nationalist forum long time ago where overwhelming majority users requested stricter rules and banning of multiculturalist accounts.

Is this a threat? Which group are you affiliated with? From what I've gathered, most groups have an anti-policy against racism.

Take it as You prefer. I'm not affiliated with any particular group. I act as I decide. Sometimes (most time) I lurk where various things are coordinated and join in if the cause is just or the price is right. You probably underestimate how diverse people behind Anon are.

[Third Way]

Racist bitcoins would be hella orwellian,
Are you asian? Good at math! +3 BTC
White? 2.5, almost 3 very good!
Are you latino? Oh muy pobre amigo, 1 BTC
Jewish? 20,000,994.5 You make the bank
Black people dont get bitcoins its racist coins.


 or, Classist Bitcoins like, are you proletariat comrade? 2 Bitcoin, Oh you used to own means of production? Fuck you, no bitcoin. PETIT BURGEOUSIE? DISGUSTING! .5 btc

[Kluge]

Racist bitcoins would be hella orwellian,
Are you asian? Good at math! +3 BTC
White? 2.5, almost 3 very good!
Are you latino? Oh muy pobre amigo, 1 BTC
Jewish? 20,000,994.5 You make the bank
Black people dont get bitcoins its racist coins.


 or, Classist Bitcoins like, are you proletariat comrade? 2 Bitcoin, Oh you used to own means of production? Fuck you, no bitcoin. PETIT BURGEOUSIE? DISGUSTING! .5 btc

Ah.... Funny you mention that. The original, now-forgotten proposal for Colored Coins was much different from the current implementation. 

[adamstgBit]

Information cannot be owned by single entity!

Are private keys information?

yes and you don't own it, you are simple the only person who knows this information ( hopefully )

[evolve]

Information cannot be owned by single entity!

It can be (and is) in my country and others. Trade secrets and Intellectual property (copyright, patent, trademark, design, etc) are all protected by law in many countries.

But none of that matters.  You don't have free speech on a privately owned forum. Period. Keep throwing a hissy fit if you want, it doesn't change the reality of the situation. You have no recourse, suck it up and stop being a whiny petulant man-child.


Edit: looks like you got your hate-filled posts back, and now you have your very own thread to spread your hate. Good for you.

Once again, you disappoint me, bitcointalk.  

[John (John K.)]

Information cannot be owned by single entity!

It can be (and is) in my country and others. Trade secrets and Intellectual property (copyright, patent, trademark, design, etc) are all protected by law in many countries.

But none of that matters.  You don't have free speech on a privately owned forum. Period. Keep throwing a hissy fit if you want, it doesn't change the reality of the situation. You have no recourse, suck it up and stop being a whiny petulant man-child.


Edit: looks like you got your hate-filled posts back, and now you have your very own thread to spread your hate. Good for you.

Once again, you disappoint me, bitcointalk.  

I deleted the worst of it.

[jasinlee]

Most modern purebred dogs registered with closed stud books are highly inbred, increasing the possibility of genetic-based disease.

Is stupidity a disease?

[QuestionAuthority]

Thanks to all who spoke out against the obvious evil of pointless hatred.  I feel much better about this forum now.

John, I do believe you eliminated the most evil parts while still preserving the free speech aspect. Thank you

[MysteryMiner]

Information cannot be owned by single entity!

Are private keys information?

yes and you don't own it, you are simple the only person who knows this information ( hopefully )

Right on spot! The private key is information must be kept secret by the owner by purely technical means. If it leaks because of your stupidity it becomes public information and nothing can stop the spread. Making laws and rules to cover your failure to keep the information for yourself only is just wrong!

What exactly is your definition of own?

Claiming rights that restrict the use of information in any way.

It can be (and is) in my country and others. Trade secrets and Intellectual property (copyright, patent, trademark, design, etc) are all protected by law in many countries.

My point of reference is the copyright laws that existed in pre-industrial revolution and partly in USSR. The copyright in capitalism is used for workless income, patent trolling and to restrict flow of knowledge, restrict entertainment and hinder technological advance. The copyright should be abandoned completely like slavery was. (I'm racist but I don't want a stinking slave and I consider having slave unethical and dangerous to society).

You don't have free speech on a privately owned forum. Period.

Where can I have it? In forums owned by federal government of USA? Forums owned by non-governmental nonprofit organizations? I doubt it.

Publicly accessible forum cannot be considered private forum. This is public place, only the hardware is owned privately.

Most modern purebred dogs registered with closed stud books are highly inbred, increasing the possibility of genetic-based disease.

Is stupidity a disease?

Comparing pure race that is natural occurrence to selectively inbred dogs are stupid. The mixed race humans are more like horse and donkey hybrids. I somewhat feel sorry for them, they did not choose their parents.

[myrkul]

Publicly accessible forum cannot be considered private forum. This is public place, only the hardware is owned privately.

And it is precisely that hardware which you are accessing to write your posts. You are accessing that hardware by the good graces of it's owners. You can (and I suspect will, if you keep this up) be banned by them, removing the privilege of accessing that hardware to make posts, being limited to read-only access. If you make a nuisance of yourself, they can even ban you from accessing it in read-only mode.

[MysteryMiner]

And it is precisely that hardware which you are accessing to write your posts. You are accessing that hardware by the good graces of it's owners.

I never visited the server room of Bitcointalk. Or You cannot distinguish real world from cyberspace, and dreams from reality?

[myrkul]

And it is precisely that hardware which you are accessing to write your posts. You are accessing that hardware by the good graces of it's owners.

I never visited the server room of Bitcointalk.

You don't need to visit the server room to access the server hardware, and the admin does not need to visit the server room to prevent you from doing so.

[btcANGEL]

he should definitely not reproduce.

I definitely will reproduce white children! White race should not fade away.

Whites invented space flight. Blacks invented gangbang.
All great Renaissance Man were white europeans. Meanwhile blacks were slaves.
Whites invented electricity. Blacks invented how to use electricity to accelerate ganja growth.

This list is endless. As You see the intelligence is characteristic to some races. According to scientists intelligence itself might not be the goal of evolution but single freak accident of nature. So with whites losing role in world the future looks bad for human race as a whole.

The dumb kids made by media brainwash are just another nail in the coffin of intelligent and sovereign human.

Define white for me, for example am I white? My ancestry is swedish, welsh, german, cherokee indian 1/4th, and my great grandfather on my mothers side was jewish but not sure the country but he was born in tennessee. I would consider myself to have no particular race....since such a thing is only tracked by people who need a reason to feel superior. All your essentially saying is that you were the product of selective breeding. So if black people are a result of the opposite, you would basically be the equivalent to a human dog pedigree show.

I usually use #FFFFFF, but anything with a saturation below 6.7% and a brightness above 92% is good enough to fool the human eye.

[MysteryMiner]

You don't need to visit the server room to access the server hardware, and the admin does not need to visit the server room to prevent you from doing so.

I also don't need to access server room to do some lulz if I'm angry. I would probably be arshole to many more users as they would be unable to use the cyber part of this forum and the damage vs gain is unclear.

I'm looking for a specific definition of own, not how it applies to information

The ownership in virtual world is little bit different than in real world. The virtual things cannot be prevented from copying (duplicating and multiplying) and the theft is impossible in a sense that the original is still available. With bitcoin private keys this is little different because bitcoins are more like a process (signing a transaction and broadcasting) than object (the private key used for signing tx).

By your definition, if I can restrict the use of information, I own it.

No. If hacked forum is deleted, the information is restriceted but the hacker is not the owner. In a sense

[jasinlee]

Information cannot be owned by single entity!

Are private keys information?

yes and you don't own it, you are simple the only person who knows this information ( hopefully )

Right on spot! The private key is information must be kept secret by the owner by purely technical means. If it leaks because of your stupidity it becomes public information and nothing can stop the spread. Making laws and rules to cover your failure to keep the information for yourself only is just wrong!

What exactly is your definition of own?

Claiming rights that restrict the use of information in any way.

It can be (and is) in my country and others. Trade secrets and Intellectual property (copyright, patent, trademark, design, etc) are all protected by law in many countries.

My point of reference is the copyright laws that existed in pre-industrial revolution and partly in USSR. The copyright in capitalism is used for workless income, patent trolling and to restrict flow of knowledge, restrict entertainment and hinder technological advance. The copyright should be abandoned completely like slavery was. (I'm racist but I don't want a stinking slave and I consider having slave unethical and dangerous to society).

You don't have free speech on a privately owned forum. Period.

Where can I have it? In forums owned by federal government of USA? Forums owned by non-governmental nonprofit organizations? I doubt it.

Publicly accessible forum cannot be considered private forum. This is public place, only the hardware is owned privately.

Most modern purebred dogs registered with closed stud books are highly inbred, increasing the possibility of genetic-based disease.

Is stupidity a disease?

Comparing pure race that is natural occurrence to selectively inbred dogs are stupid. The mixed race humans are more like horse and donkey hybrids. I somewhat feel sorry for them, they did not choose their parents.

[myrkul]

If I can access it, I can copy your private key without destroying the original. My use of that private key may result in a loss for you.

Just so it's clear, the accessing (unless it was stored on privately owned hardware) and copying are not the crime. The fraudulent use of the key is.

[myrkul]

If I can access it, I can copy your private key without destroying the original. My use of that private key may result in a loss for you.

Just so it's clear, the accessing (unless it was stored on privately owned hardware) and copying are not the crime. The fraudulent use of the key is.

I can agree with that. It's an interesting relationship though, because in order to assure that fraudulent use of the key does not occur, I have to prevent access and copying.

What I'm trying to find out is if information can be owned. If I can prevent access and copying of information, do I own it?

I don't believe so. Information is merely a pattern. You can't own a pattern. You can own atoms, but not the specific arrangement of those atoms.

[myrkul]

If I can access it, I can copy your private key without destroying the original. My use of that private key may result in a loss for you.

Just so it's clear, the accessing (unless it was stored on privately owned hardware) and copying are not the crime. The fraudulent use of the key is.

I can agree with that. It's an interesting relationship though, because in order to assure that fraudulent use of the key does not occur, I have to prevent access and copying.

What I'm trying to find out is if information can be owned. If I can prevent access and copying of information, do I own it?

I don't believe so. Information is merely a pattern. You can't own a pattern. You can own atoms, but not the specific arrangement of those atoms.

Even if I can obscure that specific arrangement from others (encryption)? Can't I then dictate when and if that pattern is accessible by others? What is lacking for this to be considered ownership?

Exclusivity. Astronomically unlikely or no, I may be able to reproduce that pattern independently. I cannot have the same atoms you do, but I can order my atoms in the same pattern you do.

[myrkul]

If I can access it, I can copy your private key without destroying the original. My use of that private key may result in a loss for you.

Just so it's clear, the accessing (unless it was stored on privately owned hardware) and copying are not the crime. The fraudulent use of the key is.

It occurred to me after thinking about this a bit. If no one owns the information obtained on the private key, how do we determine fraudulent use?

You're representing yourself to be the person whose key you have copied. That's fraud.

[myrkul]

If I can access it, I can copy your private key without destroying the original. My use of that private key may result in a loss for you.

Just so it's clear, the accessing (unless it was stored on privately owned hardware) and copying are not the crime. The fraudulent use of the key is.

It occurred to me after thinking about this a bit. If no one owns the information obtained on the private key, how do we determine fraudulent use?

You're representing yourself to be the person whose key you have copied. That's fraud.

"Person whose key"

Didn't you just imply ownership of the key?

The English language is imprecise. Saying that a person is "your" child does not imply ownership, any more than does saying it's their key.

[Snipes777]

Bitcoin is like cash. "Pay to bearer on demand". You are responsible for keeping private keys safe just like you are responsible for keeping cash away from people, except that cash can't easily transfer over the internet p2p.

If you sign up for a central service and then associate a wallet with you, then this becomes a situation where someone can falsely represent them-self as someone else and it becomes fraud.

In order to get someone's private key, however, entails hacking, personally invading their home, or other such activities to acquire which can be deemed the point that makes it wrong or a "violation of rights".

[shep]

You frighten me because I think you’re serious.

No, retarded kids with retarded parents in retarded society scares me! Totally serious about nigger, cartoons, belt. And probably serious about last two items. I know people who killed other people with axes or kitchen knifes (because firearms are effectively banned in my country) and now they are in prison. They all started as kids hitting other kids.

There is a reason they say violence begets violence

[myrkul]

If I can access it, I can copy your private key without destroying the original. My use of that private key may result in a loss for you.

Just so it's clear, the accessing (unless it was stored on privately owned hardware) and copying are not the crime. The fraudulent use of the key is.

It occurred to me after thinking about this a bit. If no one owns the information obtained on the private key, how do we determine fraudulent use?

You're representing yourself to be the person whose key you have copied. That's fraud.

"Person whose key"

Didn't you just imply ownership of the key?

The English language is imprecise. Saying that a person is "your" child does not imply ownership, any more than does saying it's their key.

Yet the argument that I am representing you when using the key implies ownership as well. I don't need to represent you if you don't own the key, I can use it as myself.  

I can sign a transaction with any key and broadcast it, but it's only going to be accepted by others if I've used the correct key.

I can sign a check with any signature, but it's only going to be accepted if I've used the right one. Now, I understood the above quote to refer to using private keys in their original, cryptographic purpose... signing something carries an indication that you are some specific person. If this is not what you meant, and there was no intent to masquerade as the original assignee of that key, then the only crime is the trespass (if any - and that includes digital trespass) you had to commit to acquire the key.

If you are lax in your security practices, I could theoretically photograph you backing up your private keys with QR codes, or on paper wallets, without violating your rights.

Indeed. Likewise with photographing physical keys and making a copy from that. Creepy, perhaps, but not sinister.

[MysteryMiner]

The private key does not indicate person. It can be controlled by organization (legal entity), by multiple persons at different times (casascius coins, phisical notes, selling the privkey). The private key can even be controlled or owned by virtually none if used only temporary by automated software such as mixing service.

[myrkul]

Say I obtain "your" private key using the method quoted at the bottom of this post, if you don't own the key, and I'm not masquerading as you when I enter it into software on my computer, has a crime been committed? You will certainly experience a loss by my actions, should I transfer any Bitcoins accessed with that private key (alter the public ledger), but I can't figure out how you can claim there was a crime if no one owns information, in this case private Bitcoin keys or the ledger itself!

Well, if you get the key in a legit (if shady) manner, then it's not really a crime if you use that key to take the money... no more than it is if you found a key to an airport locker sitting on the sidewalk, and took the suitcase full of money you found within. It all comes down to how you get the key.

Another flaw in the English language, "assignee", "assignment", and "assigning" all have definitions which involve property, as well as one's that don't. And for some reason, the only way "assignee of that key" makes any sense to me is if the key is now owned by the assignee as property. I also get very frustrated when definitions use another form of the word being defined.
 <snicker-snack>
Now I'm just fucking lost. It makes so much more sense if the key is just considered property.

If it helps, I am using definition 3 of assign, and definition 5 of relation. The key, while it is solely in your possession, refers solely to you. This is more important in traditional cryptography than in cryptocurrency.

If you are lax in your security practices, I could theoretically photograph you backing up your private keys with QR codes, or on paper wallets, without violating your rights.

Indeed. Likewise with photographing physical keys and making a copy from that. Creepy, perhaps, but not sinister.

Sure, but then using that key requires that I trespass on your property or steal your property. If information isn't property, that isn't the case with Bitcoin private keys.

Not necessarily. Look at it like that airport locker I mentioned. That's the blockchain. The coins are the suitcase, and the key is, well, the key. Whoever has that key, or a copy of it, can open the locker and take the money. It all comes down to how you got your copy of the key.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is "you own it if you can prevent others from using it (protect), you don't own it if you can't". Similar to the self(property)-defense argument that "you don't own it if you can't protect it". That may sound brutal, but isn't this what it ultimately comes down to if someone or some group ignores your rights? This is why we (or at least I) will fight for the right to defend myself and others. Our ability to protect ourselves (our property) is our last resort against those who would attempt to take it by any means possible. This is why I am a huge fan of Bitcoin. It's so easy for me to protect "my" Bitcoins (private keys).

That seems reasonable, just remember that if your security is lax, and anyone can see your private keys, it's your fault that you lost the suitcase.

[myrkul]

For what it's worth, I'm more confused now than when I started this discussion. I'm honestly trying to understand the concept of no one owning information, but it's not clicking for me.

Here are some articles from one of the greats, Stephen Kinsella on the subject:

http://www.libertarianstandard.com/articles/stephan-kinsella/intellectual-freedom-and-learning-versus-patent-and-copyright/
http://blog.mises.org/11383/intellectual-property-and-the-structure-of-human-action/
http://mises.org/daily/4848/

These come at it from the perspective of Praxeology, which is essentially economics applied to all human action.

[Snipes777]

Even in a time when ideas are not owned, the colloquial is to use "your" or other forms of ownership words. Stefan releases a book for free that anyone can download, modify, or read and can choose to donate if they want to. "Your" is used in order to denote that he came up with the idea, even though he doesn't own the idea. Donating to him results from people wanting to continue his idea generation, or because they gained value from an idea. Despite all of these, he still cannot own ideas or words and wouldn't dream of forcibly preventing others through threats of jail or fine.

Despite that people cannot own ideas, we still give credit for their origination. A great and powerful speaker who reads a book someone else wrote will still gain some compensation for the added value to the idea by lending his voice to the discussion. This still doesn't necessitate ownership.