Is it good or bad that Core development is virtually controlled by one company?

[iCEBREAKER]

51% is explicitly defined as consensus

The myth that a supermajority is needed needs to be dispelled.

The consensus mechanism was defined like it is to *exactly* deal with the situation where there is contention. Let hashrate decide.

If some people want to try and undermine this by trying to trick miners into following different chains, let them do so now. Let them reveal their hand. Then we can see who is truly being 'irresponsible', and who is truly 'trying to destroy bitcoin'.

Where is 51% defined as consensus?  The whitepaper?  Cite please!

And you know full well much less than 51% will given time inevitably appear, due to variance, as 51%.

The consensus mechanism is designed to discourage/prevent a situation where there is contention, via the extreme penalties (ie losing all your BTC) for defecting from the socioeconomic majority.

You don't get to be privy to, much less control, the Core Defense Network and small block militia's strategy, timing, and tactics.

You only get to find out what they are in the heat of battle, as the wildfire turns your attacking fleet into ash, shipwrecks, and corpses.

Now, isn't it well past time for you to concede that XT was defeated?

We're waiting....

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[Lauda]

I doubt this. Majority holders are probably not yet aware of this poll. If we make an effort and make them aware and win the poll, then Blockstream might back out again and say "bitcoin is not democracy", "mere winning wont do, you need 90%+" etc.  

You can't expect everyone in the ecosystem to vote on a poll, that is absurd. You try to get as many people as you can and then draw to conclusions. You have the link now, go try and find these 'majority holders' that are against it. As it currently stands there is more than 80% support for Core.

So, there needs to be clear message from Blockstream that they'll move to 2mb if they lose this poll 51:49 and give us three months to send the message across.

This would be a split, not consensus for 2 MB blocks.

[franky1]

you can circle jerk your link to all your friends on /r/bitcoin/ to garner votes in your favour all you want..

As I don't even use Reddit it is rather odd that you would state that (perhaps you are just overwhelmed with having to deal with facts that your not very used to having to do).

Let's face it @franky1 - your sponsors are not going to be paying you for much longer (as you have failed them).

i debunkd many of your examples.. and you cant debunk my examples. so instead you try to hurt my reputation. the laughable thing is that "franky1" is just a username..

so lets try this out.. lets hear some honest answers without you meandering into reputation crap.

1. with blockstream dominating what goes into the code. how is bitcoin (staying on the main chain, not talking about altcoins or other crap) still open for anyone to handle.. (and dont talk about anyone can make their own GUI. im talking about the underlying code)

2. how is bitcoin the same vision of financial freedom based on satoshi's genesis block quote (hating where corporations fucked up world finance), when one corporation has dominating control and is ignoring the community, to instead blindly do its own plan.

3. how is bitcoin going to be useful for 50% (non-westerners) of the world that blockstream are blind to, instead of the handful of businesses that blockstream will envision using bitcoin, thus forcing general population away from bitcoin and onto other stuff.

i do find it funny that while (i think) you are in china. you are ok with transaction fee's being the equivelent of 5% of an hour minimum wage. .. but imagine if you were in australia, 5% is the equivelent to 80cents..

would you be happy paying ATLEAST 5% of hourly wage just to make a transaction, come on.. imagine you had to pay ATLEAST 5% of an australian minimum wage.. then you might see beyond your own circumstance and see that you are blindly kissing ass to people that want to price out china, india and about 50% of the world from using bitcoin.
i honestly thought a man of the world that has been to china and india would atleast see beyond the western world pricing and the corporate overlords to atleast see the real world

P.S i am not sponsored by anyone. i hate gavincoin as much as i hate blockstream corporate shit. i just want bitcoin to grow without the shady tactics.
your blind loyalty to blockstream and hate of anything not blockstream shows you are sponsored

[allthingsluxury]

Not sure if what you are saying is true / confirmed or not. But I prefer to have diversification in most aspects of life. The more separate and less monopoly, the better for everyone.

[johnyj]

Will Blockstream Core agree to shift to 2mb if bitcoinocracy poll indicates more coins are supporting 2mb ?

That's possible, however the poll is unlikely to indicate such.

I doubt this. Majority holders are probably not yet aware of this poll. If we make an effort and make them aware and win the poll, then Blockstream might back out again and say "bitcoin is not democracy", "mere winning wont do, you need 90%+" etc. So, there needs to be clear message from Blockstream that they'll move to 2mb if they lose this poll 51:49 and give us three months to send the message across.

I think bitcoinocracy poll  is a quite good way to measure the economy majority interest, it can be quite handy for future change request evaluation, if the question is more human understandable

Many people vote blindly or based on rumor, so there should be first some small test for investor's knowledge level and then they will be directed to different poll that suits people with different understanding of bitcoin

[CIYAM]

As usual @franky1 you use your "wall of text" approach to try and attack me (as you do with everyone else).

Perhaps you hadn't noticed that we've all noticed this and are not going to respond to your silly posts.

You are an idiot and everyone knows it.

So keep on making an idiot of yourself (it doesn't bother me).

[blunderer]

As usual @franky1 you use your "wall of text" approach to try and attack me (as you do with everyone else).

Perhaps you hadn't noticed that we've all noticed this and are not going to respond to your silly posts.
...

He ain't wrong tho. And your text effects won't change that

[Jimmy Wales]

I doubt this. Majority holders are probably not yet aware of this poll. If we make an effort and make them aware and win the poll, then Blockstream might back out again and say "bitcoin is not democracy", "mere winning wont do, you need 90%+" etc.  

You can't expect everyone in the ecosystem to vote on a poll, that is absurd. You try to get as many people as you can and then draw to conclusions. You have the link now, go try and find these 'majority holders' that are against it. As it currently stands there is more than 80% support for Core.

I have created polls on bitcoinocracy before you heard about it. I also know who created bitcoinocracy and what other sites he run. So, u dont need to boast "You have the link now". This type of arrogant and I know everything attitude of Blockstream has forced the community to stand in front of split today and your patron Adam Back is crying on twitter not to leave the minority behind. So, behave properly.

Coming to the point, there needs to be a clear message from Blockstream core that they'd accept the defeat and move to 2mb before we "find these 'majority holders' that are against it". It requires an effort to send the message across as majority holders do not surf bitcointalk or /r/bitcoin anymore. So, we need the confirmation that the effort will be worthwhile to change the arrogance of Blockstream.

[2112]

he is now riding the community needs coke-tail..

Ha, ha! A good one! Yeah in 21th century nobody wears tailed coats. I'm quoting it for the future use.

[franky1]

he is now riding the community needs coke-tail..

Ha, ha! A good one! Yeah in 21th century nobody wears tailed coats. I'm quoting it for the future use.

"coke-tails".. means exhaust fumes.. it comes from the old analogy of people kissing ass driving/riding behind someone else not watching the road and just following the car infront.. i dont know where you dreamed up anything to do with coats(jackets)

[johnyj]

Any non-satoshi white paper design, e.g. segwit, side chain, LN, they are all alt-coins, because they know that alt-coin will never succeed alone, they try to become parasite on the main blockchain, or even morph the main chain by slowly changing its architecture
-snip-
In fact there is no way to stop this kind of parasitic chain from appearing, so the mission of core devs should be defending the blockchain from being polluted, not becoming the parasite and leech the value from blockchain

Your post might seem correct to the average user, sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. You're putting a change in the Merke tree(s), sidechains and LN in the same bag. You're comparing the incomparable and calling them all altcoins (if I understood your post correctly)? You're trying to say that the 'satoshi white paper design' is the only and perfect design that should be included in/to Bitcoin? Appeal to authority? This must be a bad joke. Let's start:
1) Segwit has nothing to do with sidechains or LN as a concept (even though it carries necessary changes for LN).
2) Any altcoin could be a sidechain to Bitcoin with two-way peg and this has a wast amount of use cases; sidechain != LN
3) LN, being a second layer solution that enables two participants a theoretically infinite amount of transaction, is now a bad thing?
4) This has nothing to do with Mastercoin.

If the XT with 8MB increase can be called an alt-coin, then this segwit/sidechain are all 100% genuine alt-coins. And such a large change without any formal design specification (Just read BIP 14X, those are all terrible documentations without any useful information, just redefine everything. In fact I doubt if anyone have read them, if you happened read them, just tell me where is the witness block structure architecture?  )

Someone mentioned: Respect to Satoshi writings is essential, not because he is a god or something but because that's what we were all offered and put our money and effort for believing in it. We did not put our money and mining rigs to construct infrastructure for running segwit/sidechain

LN is another story, I heard that miners don't like it, since it reduce their fee income   

[Lauda]

If the XT with 8MB increase can be called an alt-coin, then this segwit/sidechain/LN are all 100% genuine alt-coins. And such a large change without any formal design specification (Just read BIP 14X, those are all terrible documentations without any useful information, just redefine everything. In fact I doubt if anyone have read them, if you happened read them, just tell me where is the witness block structure architecture?  )

Again, false analogy. Would you call Clams an altcoin or would you call it Bitcoin? Because Clams did not start off like most of the alt-coins (forked off of Bitcoin but with a "clean sheet"). They've forked off with the existing balances at one point in time. The only difference between Clams and Bitcoin (from this viewpoint) is that it is not called Bitcoin Clams.
Again, do you even know how an altcoin gets created? Segwit has nothing to do with an altcoin; a sidechain could be technically called an altcoin pegged to Bitcoin; LN has nothing to do with an altcoin either (does it have its own blockchain? No.). There is no need to continue this discussion as you obviously don't properly understand the basic concepts of a cryptocurrency.

Someone mentioned: Respect to Satoshi writings is essential, not because he is a god or something but because that's what we were all offered and put our money and effort for believing in it. We did not put our money and mining rigs to construct infrastructure for running segwit/sidechain/LN

Go ahead, download the first version of Bitcoin and run that. You didn't put a considerable amount of money in anything as it is clearly demonstrated that there isn't much of it behind the people that are doing this.
Update: Corections.

[iCEBREAKER]

the desire for 2mb is a community need

2mb this year because the community wanted it

the whole community that wants 2mb

the community want 2mb

[franky1]

community

[Jet Cash]

OK, so I'm a newbie who has just been reading a lot and trying to understand things. So here is my opinion.

We may need 2Mb blocks, but it's not urgent, and it may be that in the future we need 4Mb or more. Most blocks are half empty, so maybe what we really need are variable length blocks and more efficiency. There is too much "rubbish" in blocks that is not essential to money transfer - people are recording weddings for heaven sake, SigWit doesn't mean that we can't use 2Mb blocks, it just means that if we do, then the storage will be mofre efficient. Please explain to me why we can't implement SegWit in the short term. See what effect that has on transaction processing, and then decide a block size policy for the future.

[franky1]

OK, so I'm a newbie who has just been reading a lot and trying to understand things. So here is my opinion.

We may need 2Mb blocks, but it's not urgent, and it may be that in the future we need 4Mb or more. Most blocks are half empty, so maybe what we really need are variable length blocks and more efficiency. There is too much "rubbish" in blocks that is not essential to money transfer - people are recording weddings for heaven sake, SigWit doesn't mean that we can't use 2Mb blocks, it just means that if we do, then the storage will be mofre efficient. Please explain to me why we can't implement SegWit in the short term. See what effect that has on transaction processing, and then decide a block size policy for the future.

many have proposed a 2mbsegwit (3.5-4mb real full archival data). that way its 2 birds with one stone.(giving into the segwit while also getting community desire for more buffer space to allow growth)

but blockstream dont want buffer space. they dont want room spare for open transactions, they want dominance, they want miners to have premium services and prices to allow transctions.

its not in their roadmap to have a buffer and room for growth.

without a buffer miners can charge more for transactions. with a buffer people dont need to pay fee's.
the whole fee income strategy blockstream want to impose is not actually needed for 20 years because the blockreward is enough compensation for miners. so this fee debate and twisting bitcoin in favour of higher fee's is a business decision and not a logical code/equipment cost decision

[CIYAM]

but blockstream dont want buffer. they dont want room spare for open transactions, they want dominance, they want miners to have premium services and prices to allow transctions.

its not in their roadmap to have a buffer and room for growth.

Why do you spout such ignorant nonsense again and again and again?

You are probably being paid to do so but everyone now is aware of that (so don't expect you are going to continue to get paid for this nonsense for much longer).

[franky1]

but blockstream dont want buffer. they dont want room spare for open transactions, they want dominance, they want miners to have premium services and prices to allow transctions.

its not in their roadmap to have a buffer and room for growth.

Why do you spout such ignorant nonsense again and again and again?

You are probably being paid to do so but everyone now is aware of that (so don't expect you are going to continue to get paid for this nonsense for much longer).

i dont get paid.. but you do! but nice of you to redirect the attention off your ass kissing of the $55million blockstreamers, shame though, it didnt work

[CIYAM]

but blockstream dont want buffer. they dont want room spare for open transactions, they want dominance, they want miners to have premium services and prices to allow transctions.

its not in their roadmap to have a buffer and room for growth.

Why do you spout such ignorant nonsense again and again and again?

You are probably being paid to do so but everyone now is aware of that (so don't expect you are going to continue to get paid for this nonsense for much longer).

i dont get paid.. but you do!

Now provide proof of this or be considered to be the complete idiot liar that you are.

[iCEBREAKER]

commu-

*plonk*