280 BTC total bets between Micon and mrb (are BFL ASICs real?)

[mrb]

Cool idea, casascius, I am a crypto nerd and I love the concept, but btcaddress-alpha is a Windows app and I don't run Windows (and don't want to)

It's a .NET app and will run under Mono on Linux and Mac OS X.

Note: the print and save buttons in the escrow tools won't do anything.  Just copy and paste the codes via the clipboard into somewhere safe.

Ok, good. I will try to get it running with Mono then.
Micon: yep, if it runs, let's use that.

[casascius]

Send me a link to your PGP public keys so I can generate and send out the escrow invitation codes.

Since it's a bet, it doesn't matter who enters themselves as the "payee" vs "payer", since you are both "payers", but only the "payee" screen generates the payment invitation.  Whoever gets to it first should use that screen.  Send the payment invitation to the other party (and not to me), and they should use the "payer" screen to ensure they see the same bitcoin address.

[mrb]

Mine: http://www.zorinaq.com/pub/mrb.pub.pgp.txt

[BurtW]

2)  what types of btc business are you into now?  did you learn your pirate lesson and work for good now?  or still evil?

I work for you. So... really don't know how to answer the good/evil question

[Tuxavant]

Bryan,

Bring your laptop to our next cryptoparty (this thursday) or bitcoin lunch mob (today) and I'll show you how to set up your pgp keys and OTC setup.

Oh, and I'll let you get another close up look at those empty *metal* BFL cases too 8*

[Micon]

Bryan,

Bring your laptop to our next cryptoparty (this thursday) or bitcoin lunch mob (today) and I'll show you how to set up your pgp keys and OTC setup.

Oh, and I'll let you get another close up look at those empty *metal* BFL cases too 8*

barring my young daughter not changing my schedule, I'm in for Thursday.

2)  what types of btc business are you into now?  did you learn your pirate lesson and work for good now?  or still evil?

I work for you. So... really don't know how to answer the good/evil question

remember when you wrote "Pirate is not a Ponzi" in your signature and worked tirelessly funneling more coin to him?

[BurtW]

2)  what types of btc business are you into now?  did you learn your pirate lesson and work for good now?  or still evil?

I work for you. So... really don't know how to answer the good/evil question

remember when you wrote "Pirate is not a Ponzi" in your signature and worked tirelessly funneling more coin to him?

Somday I will return the favor and post "I told you so" to you.

[casascius]

Escrow invitation part A sent to mrb.

mrb can now generate the payment invitation and the escrow-controlled bitcoin address.

Micon, I can privately e-mail you the escrow invitation part B, no PGP required.  It's not top secret, the only person it's valuable to is mrb (besides being valuable to you for validating that the bitcoin address he generates is actually under escrow control).

[Micon]

Escrow invitation part A sent to mrb.

mrb can now generate the payment invitation and the escrow-controlled bitcoin address.

Micon, I can privately e-mail you the escrow invitation part B, no PGP required.  It's not top secret, the only person it's valuable to is mrb (besides being valuable to you for validating that the bitcoin address he generates is actually under escrow control).

i totally trust you with this 10 coins.  give me a hash, tell me what to save in my notes as keys, etc.  brb gotta change diaper!

[cedivad]

What is more interesting, the bet or the casascious' new escrow system?
Anyway another 5000BTC bet would have been cool.

[casascius]

What is more interesting, the bet or the casascious' new escrow system?
Anyway another 5000BTC bet would have been cool.

The cool part to me is that once I set them up, I don't have to do a damn thing unless they get into a dispute and both refuse to release to one another.

Since my "cost" is so low, if the idea takes off, it should totally reduce the overhead and friction of doing bitcoin transactions with untrusted parties.  No risk I'll lose their funds to a hacker, virtually no overhead, no need to charge 1% just to generate a couple of codes.  That's a big deal!  Imagine if exchanges worked that way, and had a severely limited ability to actually run with your bitcoins.  The Bitcoin world would be nothing like we know it today.

[Micon]

What is more interesting, the bet or the casascious' new escrow system?
Anyway another 5000BTC bet would have been cool.

The cool part to me is that once I set them up, I don't have to do a damn thing unless they get into a dispute and both refuse to release to one another.

Since my "cost" is so low, if the idea takes off, it should totally reduce the overhead and friction of doing bitcoin transactions with untrusted parties.  No risk I'll lose their funds to a hacker, virtually no overhead, no need to charge 1% just to generate a couple of codes.  That's a big deal!  Imagine if exchanges worked that way, and had a severely limited ability to actually run with your bitcoins.  The Bitcoin world would be nothing like we know it today.

IMO very small fee for the arbiter, similar in scale to the bitcoin miners transactions fees

Also tyvm for the private help to set me up with what after I initially download and install looks like a really cool solution for one of the early trust issues this community gets into frequently.   Casascius is actively solving cryptography issues that we will likely use for years to make bets like this. 

I have sent Casascius privately what I think he needed to have from my end, but likely it may need something else, and I haven't sent coins anywhere yet so there is that. 

mrb - Can we consider to have a 10 coin bet at this stage?  I'm sure in the next 24 I'll be able to figure this out with Casascius' help and fire my 10.   After we do this bet and I understand the escrow system let's talk bigger.

tytytytytytyty for this new escrow product & your original work, the physical btc coins (I keep 3 1btc physical coins in my collection of things that I never want to throw away because I'm still an irrational human and this small collection of physical items make me happy.  I think I bought them from you personally at one of the many conventions I "sneak" into in Vegas)

[mrb]

Yep I agree to at least a 10 BTC bet. I summarized our bet below (note the addition of "These 10 good standing forum members..."). Please quote my entire post to officially approve this version:

Statement

Butterfly Labs ASIC is real and will achieve 350+ Mhash/Joule by June 30, 2013

Details

At least one ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product will demonstrate 350 Mhash/Joule or more, at stock frequency/voltage, at room temperature, for a sustained period of time of at least 60 minutes, with appropriate current-measuring equipment on the device's power input(s). Power consumption shall be measured by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts. This bet applies to all ASIC-based products that Butterfly Labs will deliver to the general public. This includes the "SuperComputer" family (Jalapeno, Single SC, Mini Rig SC), as well as possibly any unannounced product that the company will be shipping by June 30, 2013.

The legitimacy of the ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product(s) will be established as follow: the equipment must be reported to have been received by 10+ good standing forum members, of which:
- 3 must have each personally measured the Mhash/Joule of the devices
- the other 7 may not have necessarily measured the Mhash/Joule, but must have provided reports of having received working devices that seem to validate the existence and plausibility of the devices belonging to the above 3

These 10 good standing forum members do not necessarily need to report on the same product (eg. 10 Single SC). It may be a mix of products (eg. 6 reporting on Jalapeno units, plus 3 reporting on Single SC units).

Examples

This statement is true if, for example, the Single SC achieves 60 Ghash/s at 171 Watt or less (60000/171 = 351 Mhash/Joule) as measured with a clamp meter on its 12V DC input and 5V (USB) input.

This statement is false if all Butterfly Labs products fail to achieve 350 Mhash/Joule, or if Butterfly Labs fails to deliver any product at all.

Positions

Micon disagrees with the statement.
mrb agrees with the statement.

[dooglus]

These 10 good standing forum members do not necessarily need to report on the same product (eg. 10 Single SC). It may be a mix of products (eg. 6 reporting on Jalapeno units, plus 3 reporting on Single SC units).

It sounds here like you're suggesting that 6 plus 3 is 10...

[Micon]

Yep I agree to at least a 10 BTC bet. I summarized our bet below (note the addition of "These 10 good standing forum members..."). Please quote my entire post to officially approve this version:

Statement

Butterfly Labs ASIC is real and will achieve 350+ Mhash/Joule by June 30, 2013

Details

At least one ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product will demonstrate 350 Mhash/Joule or more, at stock frequency/voltage, at room temperature, for a sustained period of time of at least 60 minutes, with appropriate current-measuring equipment on the device's power input(s). Power consumption shall be measured by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts. This bet applies to all ASIC-based products that Butterfly Labs will deliver to the general public. This includes the "SuperComputer" family (Jalapeno, Single SC, Mini Rig SC), as well as possibly any unannounced product that the company will be shipping by June 30, 2013.

The legitimacy of the ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product(s) will be established as follow: the equipment must be reported to have been received by 10+ good standing forum members, of which:
- 3 must have each personally measured the Mhash/Joule of the devices
- the other 7 may not have necessarily measured the Mhash/Joule, but must have provided reports of having received working devices that seem to validate the existence and plausibility of the devices belonging to the above 3

These 10 good standing forum members do not necessarily need to report on the same product (eg. 10 Single SC). It may be a mix of products (eg. 6 reporting on Jalapeno units, plus 3 reporting on Single SC units).

Examples

This statement is true if, for example, the Single SC achieves 60 Ghash/s at 171 Watt or less (60000/171 = 351 Mhash/Joule) as measured with a clamp meter on its 12V DC input and 5V (USB) input.

This statement is false if all Butterfly Labs products fail to achieve 350 Mhash/Joule, or if Butterfly Labs fails to deliver any product at all.

Positions

Micon disagrees with the statement.
mrb agrees with the statement.

I agree to this wager.    In contact with the big C to figure out where to send coins and what cryptographic keys I need to save for myself / send to him.

[Micon]

in email contact with casascius to figure out this escrow system.   First "be a payee" escrow invitation code said not valid when i clicked "generate payment invitation" 

we'll figure this out and it's likely user error on my part.  I'll send casascius the screencaps if needbe.  I consider that mrb and I have a 10 coin bet at this stage and we are both gentlemen so working out this escrow part IMO won't take very long and there will soon be 20 coins sitting in the blockchain with both of us holding our half of the private key and casascius holding both. 

very cool when we get it working, then we can go bigger once we go through this escrow process and I can fully understand it.

[Maged]

Yep I agree to at least a 10 BTC bet. I summarized our bet below (note the addition of "These 10 good standing forum members..."). Please quote my entire post to officially approve this version:

Statement

Butterfly Labs ASIC is real and will achieve 350+ Mhash/Joule by June 30, 2013

Details

At least one ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product will demonstrate 350 Mhash/Joule or more, at stock frequency/voltage, at room temperature, for a sustained period of time of at least 60 minutes, with appropriate current-measuring equipment on the device's power input(s). Power consumption shall be measured by adding up current from all the device's DC inputs (12V jack, USB cable, etc.) It will not be measured "at the wall". The purpose of this bet is to avoid wildly varying efficiencies of power adapters and computer hosts. This bet applies to all ASIC-based products that Butterfly Labs will deliver to the general public. This includes the "SuperComputer" family (Jalapeno, Single SC, Mini Rig SC), as well as possibly any unannounced product that the company will be shipping by June 30, 2013.

The legitimacy of the ASIC-based Butterfly Labs product(s) will be established as follow: the equipment must be reported to have been received by 10+ good standing forum members, of which:
- 3 must have each personally measured the Mhash/Joule of the devices
- the other 7 may not have necessarily measured the Mhash/Joule, but must have provided reports of having received working devices that seem to validate the existence and plausibility of the devices belonging to the above 3

These 10 good standing forum members do not necessarily need to report on the same product (eg. 10 Single SC). It may be a mix of products (eg. 6 reporting on Jalapeno units, plus 3 reporting on Single SC units).

Examples

This statement is true if, for example, the Single SC achieves 60 Ghash/s at 171 Watt or less (60000/171 = 351 Mhash/Joule) as measured with a clamp meter on its 12V DC input and 5V (USB) input.

This statement is false if all Butterfly Labs products fail to achieve 350 Mhash/Joule, or if Butterfly Labs fails to deliver any product at all.

Positions

Micon disagrees with the statement.
mrb agrees with the statement.

I agree to this wager.    In contact with the big C to figure out where to send coins and what cryptographic keys I need to save for myself / send to him.

Witnessed.

[Micon]

in email contact with casascius to figure out this escrow system.   First "be a payee" escrow invitation code said not valid when i clicked "generate payment invitation" 

we'll figure this out and it's likely user error on my part.  I'll send casascius the screencaps if needbe.  I consider that mrb and I have a 10 coin bet at this stage and we are both gentlemen so working out this escrow part IMO won't take very long and there will soon be 20 coins sitting in the blockchain with both of us holding our half of the private key and casascius holding both. 

very cool when we get it working, then we can go bigger once we go through this escrow process and I can fully understand it.

there was a 1-character error in the copy past from Casascius to me. 

the "generate payment invitation" worked, and I have both a payment invite (very long code) and a bitcoin address that looks normal. 

Casascius - i send mrb the very long payment invitation?  then he enters that in the "be the payer" in his casascius-escrow tool and gets the same btc address and we both ship to that?

[casascius]

in email contact with casascius to figure out this escrow system.   First "be a payee" escrow invitation code said not valid when i clicked "generate payment invitation"  

we'll figure this out and it's likely user error on my part.  I'll send casascius the screencaps if needbe.  I consider that mrb and I have a 10 coin bet at this stage and we are both gentlemen so working out this escrow part IMO won't take very long and there will soon be 20 coins sitting in the blockchain with both of us holding our half of the private key and casascius holding both.  

very cool when we get it working, then we can go bigger once we go through this escrow process and I can fully understand it.

there was a 1-character error in the copy past from Casascius to me.  

the "generate payment invitation" worked, and I have both a payment invite (very long code) and a bitcoin address that looks normal.  

Casascius - i send mrb the very long payment invitation?  then he enters that in the "be the payer" in his casascius-escrow tool and gets the same btc address and we both ship to that?

Yes, send him the payment invitation and the address.  If:
1. You have an escrow invitation code from me, AND
2. You have a payment invitation code you generated or received from the other party, AND
3. Both of you agree that the escrow invitation you have and the payment invitation combined yield the same bitcoin address in the "be a payer" screen...

THEN it is safe to pay that address.

Whoever has all three parts (escrow invite part A, escrow invite part B, and the payment invitation) can compute the private key on the "collect your funds" screen.

You can tell what code you have, since they'll start with "einva", "einvb", or "einvp".  the ones with a and b came from me (mrb got a, Micon got b) and you guys produced the one with p.

If you decide you are the loser, give your escrow invitation code that I originally gave you to the person who is the winner, so they have all three parts.

You can publish the address if you want everyone to see the funds, but that's entirely your call.  I don't need the address unless a dispute arises that gives rise to my need to know.

[Micon]

in email contact with casascius to figure out this escrow system.   First "be a payee" escrow invitation code said not valid when i clicked "generate payment invitation"  

we'll figure this out and it's likely user error on my part.  I'll send casascius the screencaps if needbe.  I consider that mrb and I have a 10 coin bet at this stage and we are both gentlemen so working out this escrow part IMO won't take very long and there will soon be 20 coins sitting in the blockchain with both of us holding our half of the private key and casascius holding both.  

very cool when we get it working, then we can go bigger once we go through this escrow process and I can fully understand it.

there was a 1-character error in the copy past from Casascius to me.  

the "generate payment invitation" worked, and I have both a payment invite (very long code) and a bitcoin address that looks normal.  

Casascius - i send mrb the very long payment invitation?  then he enters that in the "be the payer" in his casascius-escrow tool and gets the same btc address and we both ship to that?

Yes, send him the payment invitation and the address.  If:
1. You have an escrow invitation code from me, AND
2. You have a payment invitation code you generated or received from the other party, AND
3. Both of you agree that the escrow invitation you have and the payment invitation combined yield the same bitcoin address in the "be a payer" screen...

THEN it is safe to pay that address.

Whoever has all three parts (escrow invite part A, escrow invite part B, and the payment invitation) can compute the private key on the "collect your funds" screen.

You can tell what code you have, since they'll start with "einva", "einvb", or "einvp".  the ones with a and b came from me (mrb got a, Micon got b) and you guys produced the one with p.

If you decide you are the loser, give your escrow invitation code that I originally gave you to the person who is the winner, so they have all three parts.

You can publish the address if you want everyone to see the funds, but that's entirely your call.  I don't need the address unless a dispute arises that gives rise to my need to know.

1)  shipped mrb my "new payment invite" code (don't worry, I didn't donk it off completely and send him my einvb-code)
2)  generated the btc address & I msg'd to mrb privately.  As I understand it the system is very secure and we could post this btc address publicly and see when both of us send coins to it, there will be 20 total in it, and community can watch the winner scoop the pot.   I want smarter technical users that I trust to tell me it's OK first before doing this.
3)  casascius if all this goes as it should this is an awesome cryptographic solution to a common community issue:  we want to bet each other with as little outside trust as possible.  Also this makes appointing and arbiter before the bet necessary, another good practice in wagering.