An excessive fee is an our future?

[sakinaka]

Don't worry, that's not a problem, because Bitcoin's fiat price, by increasing will make their earnings basically still as good as they used to be.

[Amph]

this is the reason why the halving is there, to force a value increase in view of the fee that will be the only revenue for miners in the future

you don't need to have the reward from the block to zero to have the fee becoming more important to miners, already from 2028 the fee will need to be higher or the value need to be higher to accomodate for the loss of the reward from the block

[Akupuniard]

this is the reason why the halving is there, to force a value increase in view of the fee that will be the only revenue for miners in the future

you don't need to have the reward from the block to zero to have the fee becoming more important to miners, already from 2028 the fee will need to be higher or the value need to be higher to accomodate for the loss of the reward from the block

Please explain me, because I am starting to think that I am really stupid: HOW DO FEES CORRELATE WITH MINING? Mining is the process of mining new coins. Blocks are generated etc. What exactly does the fee share with the process of mining? Who gets these fees?

[SFR10]

I wouldn't mind rewarding miners more for confirming the transactions in which if you compare what were paying, even if you double/triple or even more, it's still way lesser than what other traditional or other payments require as a fee so I really don't see this as a problem to worry about (at all).

[ATguy]

this is the reason why the halving is there, to force a value increase in view of the fee that will be the only revenue for miners in the future

you don't need to have the reward from the block to zero to have the fee becoming more important to miners, already from 2028 the fee will need to be higher or the value need to be higher to accomodate for the loss of the reward from the block

Please explain me, because I am starting to think that I am really stupid: HOW DO FEES CORRELATE WITH MINING? Mining is the process of mining new coins. Blocks are generated etc. What exactly does the fee share with the process of mining? Who gets these fees?

Miners getting the fees as well. Miners can choose which transactions to include in the blocks, if they dont like the size of your transaction fee, they simply dont add your transaction to the block. The only problem is the current 1 MB limit per block is already used up in peak hours thats why people have unnecessary wait more than they could with bit bigger MB limit per block.

[Akupuniard]

I wouldn't mind rewarding miners more for confirming the transactions in which if you compare what were paying, even if you double/triple or even more, it's still way lesser than what other traditional or other payments require as a fee so I really don't see this as a problem to worry about (at all).

Of course you would not mind. Unfortunately, this is only applicable to large amounts. Paying 2 dollars fee when making a purchase of 400 dollars is acceptable. Paying the same 2 dollar fee when buying a coffee or meals is outrageous. You don't see the problem because you're not using BTC for small things. It was intended to be of value for that. By the way, when I am using a plastic card in a supermarket, I am not being charged anything. Do you see what I mean?

[Bitcotalk]

But the future like that is far away, it is true after establishment and when bitcoin take over all the virtual payment system then the fee will come to increase. But it is far away, as currently 10 to 20 years are the years of its adoption. It will take a large period to increase the fee

[blackraven1425]

I don't mind paying higher fees at all! Comparing this to the fess I pay to banks, paypay, of similar services, it's still very cheap even if the fee increases.

[Akupuniard]

I don't mind paying higher fees at all! Comparing this to the fess I pay to banks, paypay, of similar services, it's still very cheap even if the fee increases.

LOL. It's like you do not mind paying 2 dollars fee when the price itself is 2 dollars?

[russian_pete]

I think this is overthinking about a problem that is already in it's way to be solved. Block size increase will make this concerns disappear.

[Preclus]

also if fees goes on 20x actual rate, bitcoin will be the same chepaer than other methods

The cost for me to transfer a $20 bill to someone to buy a cup of coffee is zero. The transaction time is 0ms. There are zero confirmations needed.

The cost for me to transfer $20 to someone in the form of a check is zero. The transaction time is 0ms. The money does not show up immediately, however, and there is counterparty risk if I don't have the money in my account.

The to transfer $20 to someone in the form of a credit card payment is $0 to the buyer. In fact, the buyer can get cash back on their purchases. Credit card costs are incurred by the seller. Small businesses bitch about their merchant fee they pay. Larger merchants pay almost no merchant fee. The fees are negotiated and the customer generally doesn't see them. The advantage to the merchant is that the customer doesn't need to have the money to buy their goods or services because with a credit card, the money is borrowed money. A person can buy a $500 pair of shoes when they have $50 in their bank account and pay back over time. That means the merchant will have more buyers for their products than otherwise. The transaction time is a second or two however, it takes time to clear to the merchants account.

The cost of ACH transfer (eCheck) from bank accounts is generally zero.

The cost for me to transfer $1MM to someone via wire transfer is zero for me. I get free wire transfers because I maintain a high balance. For normal accounts, the cost is $30 or so. Wire transfers are generally irreversible but there is a legal trail so the receiving party can't say "we didn't get your money". They are not immediate, they take a day or so. But they are generally only used for large transaction amounts.

[NorrisK]

Unfortunately, you're not the only one who is thinking about that. Recently I've made some transactions - and fees like 500.000 satoshi when you're trying to pay only a few dollars are upsetting me as well. This is not not normal for a payment system to behave so. At least - not for Bitcoin payment system. This is just expensive, nothing personal. If it goes like that - Bitcoin will not be a currency for everyday use, because people do not spend enormous amount of money on everyday life.

I don't know how you manage to get such high fees for your transactions.. Normally 10.000 should be more than enough, and you can probably get away with less if the size in bytes of your transaction is not too big.

Did you by chance collect a lot of small earnings such as from faucets? A large number of smaller transactions can greatly increase the size of your transaction thus warranting a higher fee.

[Akupuniard]

Unfortunately, you're not the only one who is thinking about that. Recently I've made some transactions - and fees like 500.000 satoshi when you're trying to pay only a few dollars are upsetting me as well. This is not not normal for a payment system to behave so. At least - not for Bitcoin payment system. This is just expensive, nothing personal. If it goes like that - Bitcoin will not be a currency for everyday use, because people do not spend enormous amount of money on everyday life.

I don't know how you manage to get such high fees for your transactions.. Normally 10.000 should be more than enough, and you can probably get away with less if the size in bytes of your transaction is not too big.

Did you by chance collect a lot of small earnings such as from faucets? A large number of smaller transactions can greatly increase the size of your transaction thus warranting a higher fee.

Better to show once than 100 times to tell. Wait a bit plz, syncing the wallet.

[franky1]

bitcoin block rewards will be enough for atleast 20 years. by that time capacity (transactions per block) would have increased, to allow alot more.

for instance.. todays bitcoin price is $400, meaning miners get $10,000 from block reward.
 imagine in 2028 the block reward is 1.5625 and the price of 1 bitcoin was about $6400 (very possible price in 22 years) to ensure miners still get $10,000 per block.

again even then fee's are not an important income stream.. but lets pretend its a bonus

lets say with all the features of LN, segwit, and real blocklimit increases.. that the average block goes from 2500 transactions at 0.0001 (0.25btc fee total)
to 100,000 transactions (equivelent to a 40mb+segwit(again possible in 20 years) and because of bitcoin price deflation.. the fee was 0.00001 instead of 0.0001.. then each person is still paying at most 6cents a tx and miners are getting 1btc per block

remember miners are still getting 1.5btc from block reward and the transaction fee total of 1btc is a bonus. giving them a total of $16,400 income per block.

even if there were zero fee's miners would still get $10,000

so relax there is no mad rush to start making users pay over 10cents a transaction.

[bitlost]

I don't think so, no. There will be a solution to the increase in the fees, or the use of bitcoin will decrease (and hence the fees). It's self regulated, after all.

[virtualdn]

Everything will be solved in time, I trust that the developers will come with great solutions.

[dothebeats]

When all the bitcoins in existence is mined then yes, I can see higher fees in the future being the primary incentive for miners to continue on doing their work. They will rely on fees to further their operation and help secure the network, and that will only be possible if fees are somewhat raised and the price is also high.

[maokoto]

I think that if fees are too high, people will cease to use bitcoin and miners will cease to get fees so none wins. Probably they will adjust to a point of compromise.

[ctlaltdefeat]

Hello, I have some fears about fufure of BTC (sorry if the same thread already exist, I haven't found it).

In future block reward will be equal to zero and it makes uspet the miners who are earning a living by minning. In an effort to continue earnings they will be increace fees of accepted transactions to block and we will have two choices: pay harder fee or wait to confirmation forever. Bitcoin is a dicentralized system but not fully because of minnig pools. Head of pools can decide for accepting the only transactions wiht big amount of fee easily.

For example (just random block):
Block: https://blockchain.info/block/000000000000000004019d60da68382b2bae8526dc57aa083073f1fd1f30e8ac
Reward: 25 BTC
Fees: 0.20759672 BTC

So minners should increase fees more then 100 times to save current earning level.

What do you think about it?

i dont know if fee of transaction can be bigger if the trnsaction so big like that,i never sent as much like that,but i hope sometim i will feel that transaction

[disclaimer201]

Well well, Bitcoin Classic with 2MB blocks has been released and is available for download. I'm willing to give it a try. Even if we will some day need side chains or LN or whatnot, for now a quick doubling of blocks will allow for some scalability right away and will hopefully be backed by a majority and who knows... boost the price.