An excessive fee is an our future?

[Baudbonny]

Hello, I have some fears about fufure of BTC (sorry if the same thread already exist, I haven't found it).

In future block reward will be equal to zero and it makes uspet the miners who are earning a living by minning. In an effort to continue earnings they will be increace fees of accepted transactions to block and we will have two choices: pay harder fee or wait to confirmation forever. Bitcoin is a dicentralized system but not fully because of minnig pools. Head of pools can decide for accepting the only transactions wiht big amount of fee easily.

For example (just random block):
Block: https://blockchain.info/block/000000000000000004019d60da68382b2bae8526dc57aa083073f1fd1f30e8ac
Reward: 25 BTC
Fees: 0.20759672 BTC

So minners should increase fees more then 100 times to save current earning level.

What do you think about it?

[pedrog]

Bigger fees is not the only possibility, the most probable one is the increase in transactions, we can have even smaller fees and the block reward can be higher if transactions on the network increase a lot, also bitcoin value has to be taken into consideration because now the reward is much greater, in dollars, than when it was 50 bitcoins per block.

[Holdaaja]

If bitcoin price is very high in future, there won't be any problem for miners because they still earn same amount of money (in fiat).
Also, ASIC or mining device will be more efficient than now in future & electricity price could be lower if scientist can find better way to produce electricity for lower price.

So, i think there won't be any problem if those condition are fulfilled.

But if 0.0001 would 5$ people wouldn't want to pay that much anymore...
So it would go down and miner wouldn't earn more in fiat.

[Akupuniard]

Unfortunately, you're not the only one who is thinking about that. Recently I've made some transactions - and fees like 500.000 satoshi when you're trying to pay only a few dollars are upsetting me as well. This is not not normal for a payment system to behave so. At least - not for Bitcoin payment system. This is just expensive, nothing personal. If it goes like that - Bitcoin will not be a currency for everyday use, because people do not spend enormous amount of money on everyday life.

[Kprawn]

We are bargaining on adoption growing and transactions increasing to such a level that it would cover the current miners reward. In all probability and

at the rate it is growing, we would surpass the reward currently generated from the protocol. You also have to consider the fact that big companies are

investing millions into projects backed by Bitcoin. These companies will not gamble on their own future, and will jump in and cover the needs, if miners

jump ship, due to low rewards. The more people leaving, will create opportunities for other to join.... Or so we hope.  

[Baudbonny]

If bitcoin price is very high in future, there won't be any problem for miners because they still earn same amount of money (in fiat).
Also, ASIC or mining device will be more efficient than now in future & electricity price could be lower if scientist can find better way to produce electricity for lower price.

So, i think there won't be any problem if those condition are fulfilled.

Do you mean the fees amount in BTC will not change? But if some guy bought 0.01BTC for 100$ ("bitcoin price is very high in future") and he have to pay 0.0001BTC (one $) per each transaction? What if he wants to buy some good that costs 1-2$? 50% fee it is very bad. If the whole world will use Bitcoin miners will do all that I wrote.

[Jet Cash]

Maybe we could use a sidechain to batch transactions. The fee for a block transfer would be an incentive to the miner. It would give users a choice between slower confirmations ( maybe as much as 48 hours), or paying higher fees. This still compares favourably with PayPal's 6 month wait for a confirmation.

[Akupuniard]

We are bargaining on adoption growing and transactions increasing to such a level that it would cover the current miners reward. In all probability and

at the rate it is growing, we would surpass the reward currently generated from the protocol. You also have to consider the fact that big companies are

investing millions into projects backed by Bitcoin. These companies will not gamble on their own future, and will jump in and cover the needs, if miners

jump ship, due to low rewards. The more people leaving, will create opportunities for other to join.... Or so we hope.  

What's the benefit of joining then? How is Bitcoin better than fiat currency, which does not charge me any % when using in a shop for buying food?

[Baudbonny]

Also if ASIC or mining device will be more efficient than now in future then all miners will buy it and situation will not change! Tha same hashrate distribution between pools and only ASIC manufacturers have big earnings.

[SayMeHello]

Maybe we could use a sidechain to batch transactions. The fee for a block transfer would be an incentive to the miner. It would give users a choice between slower confirmations ( maybe as much as 48 hours), or paying higher fees. This still compares favourably with PayPal's 6 month wait for a confirmation.

Sorry but this is not very good future. Comparsion with PayPal is wrong because PayPal is lame.

[Pursuer]

you are not alone in thinking this way.
in the past fees have been configured according to the price and other factors at least a couple of times, and in the future for sure fee amounts are not going to stay this way after a couple of block reward halvings.

but there is this popular belief that bitcoin price is going to be higher than this so the block reward alone is going to be worth the same as now (for example 12.5BTC in future is going to worth the same in fiat as 25BTC now) so the problem will not exist.

[Baudbonny]

If bitcoin price is very high in future, there won't be any problem for miners because they still earn same amount of money (in fiat).
Also, ASIC or mining device will be more efficient than now in future & electricity price could be lower if scientist can find better way to produce electricity for lower price.

So, i think there won't be any problem if those condition are fulfilled.

Do you mean the fees amount in BTC will not change? But if some guy bought 0.01BTC for 100$ ("bitcoin price is very high in future") and he have to pay 0.0001BTC (one $) per each transaction? What if he wants to buy some good that costs 1-2$? 50% fee it is very bad. If the whole world will use Bitcoin miners will do all that I wrote.

I mean if bitcoin price is very high, miners can earn bitcoin which worth a lot in fiat so they don't have to increase bitcoin fee, in fact they can reduce bitcoin fee drastically.
I just forget to write that in previous post, that's all.

I undersood you, don't worry Yes, miners can reduce fee, but even reduced fee will worth a lot in fiat so it will be disadvantageously to buy cheap goods.

[Akupuniard]

This is kinda...not inspiring. As far as I can understand, this is coming along with the problem described by Hirsch. I mean, limit of transactions per second we're encountering right now.

[Baudbonny]

This is kinda...not inspiring. As far as I can understand, this is coming along with the problem described by Hirsch. I mean, limit of transactions per second we're encountering right now.

Can you link to the description you wrote about?

[JosNekoKopa]

you are not alone in thinking this way.
in the past fees have been configured according to the price and other factors at least a couple of times, and in the future for sure fee amounts are not going to stay this way after a couple of block reward halvings.

but there is this popular belief that bitcoin price is going to be higher than this so the block reward alone is going to be worth the same as now (for example 12.5BTC in future is going to worth the same in fiat as 25BTC now) so the problem will not exist.

What will happen if bitcoin dot go double in value?
Fee eventually must go up.. and in some future fee will be crazy high?
why fee must be defined?
Let merchants to choose how much they will give for a fee, and how fast they need transaction..

[kizilsakal]

Well, even with significantly bigger fees, it will still be waaay bellow traditional transaction methods (such as credit cards). I don't see reasons to be concerned about that (specially if the block increase happens).

[HeroCat]

Yes, this is true. Transfer fees can be much higher in the future and BTC transaction times too  Even nowadays BTC transfer time can be several hours. 

[Akupuniard]

This is kinda...not inspiring. As far as I can understand, this is coming along with the problem described by Hirsch. I mean, limit of transactions per second we're encountering right now.

Can you link to the description you wrote about?

Yes, easily. https://medium.com/@octskyward/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7#.fd2zpqghz
Actually, this post was the reason why Bitcoin price dropped down from 450 to 370 in January.

[madonnino]

Yes, this is true. Transfer fees can be much higher in the future and BTC transaction times too  Even nowadays BTC transfer time can be several hours. 

also if fees goes on 20x actual rate, bitcoin will be the same chepaer than other methods

[SayMeHello]

Yes, this is true. Transfer fees can be much higher in the future and BTC transaction times too   Even nowadays BTC transfer time can be several hours.  

also if fees goes on 20x actual rate, bitcoin will be the same chepaer than other methods

20*0.0001BTC=0.002BTC how will we buy goods that cost 5-10$. 8-16% fee? If BTC will be more than 1000$/BTC situation going to worse. Not cheaper in this case.