Perpetual motion device - Free Energy - Do you believe in it?

[420]

How much would you bet that it works or doesnt?

This topic is aimed at mainly:
myrkul
Rassah

Is this video a scam?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR6Qait2JGY#t=3m12s

and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJdLA4w3w58

[Third Way]

It's not a scam, perpetual motion has been modeled a lot in the past, and for the most part can work, like those plastic birds with that liquid in them, that always go down and up.


The hardship comes in harvesting that free energy. See how at first the little metal piece flies off? Imagine that happening in an electric output battery for a big city, an explosion would ensue, the ground would shake violently, then the city loses power and everyone thinks it's a terrorist attack. Or the end of the world if your town is religious.


It's not a scam, but using magnetism would not be profitable since at some point itcan stop spinning without flying off.


So his piece isn't exactly perpetual.


[Edit] Not a fan of "free perp. energy". I'd much rather huge tesla coils shoot lightning at a big anntennae at our houses periodically and all electric devices can usewirless electricity. I fucking hate chords

[420]

It's not a scam, perpetual motion has been modeled a lot in the past, and for the most part can work, like those plastic birds with that liquid in them, that always go down and up.


The hardship comes in harvesting that free energy. See how at first the little metal piece flies off? Imagine that happening in an electric output battery for a big city, an explosion would ensue, the ground would shake violently, then the city loses power and everyone thinks it's a terrorist attack. Or the end of the world if your town is religious.


It's not a scam, but using magnetism would not be profitable since at some point itcan stop spinning without flying off.


So his piece isn't exactly perpetual.


[Edit] Not a fan of "free perp. energy". I'd much rather huge tesla coils shoot lightning at a big anntennae at our houses periodically and all electric devices can usewirless electricity. I fucking hate chords

see new vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJdLA4w3w58

[nimda]

We have something called the Laws of Thermodynamics. Note: they're not even theories; they're laws.
In a perfectly friction-less vacuum, perpetual motion is possible, but not harvesting energy from the system. In this case, it's probably complete bullshit.

I bet it's bullshit. Even if it's not, it's certainly not "free energy."

It's not a scam, perpetual motion has been modeled a lot in the past, and for the most part can work, like those plastic birds with that liquid in them, that always go down and up.

Those stop eventually. They run out of water.

[420]

Thats the point I was looking for. It may move now but the magnet wears out...and the magnet had to be built and charged which is basically like the 'fuel' of the equation

anyway I'd like to build one and see how long it'd run then

[nimda]

It would depend on your magnet, assuming the video isn't as fake as the other one ("see new vid" -- electricity is coming from under the table or a hidden magnet). I've killed magnets in a matter of months before, and that was just performing party tricks. (One surefire way to kill your magnet is to do that "levitation" trick, then weigh down the floating one).

Presumably there's some heat coming out of this too; anyone who's roasted a magnet over a fire will tell you that the magnet dies.

[myrkul]

Is this video a scam?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR6Qait2JGY#t=3m12s

Already debunked as a motor powered by a voltage across the nails.

and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJdLA4w3w58

I gotta admit, this one took me a few seconds to figure out. But then I remembered induction. There's another coil underneath the table, hooked up to a power supply. Current flowing in that coil induces a current flow in this one, powering the bulb. It's the same way the wireless charging on the newer phones work.

[rizzla]

Perpetual motion devices using magnets are not perpetual beacuse magnets wear out.

[myrkul]

It's not a scam, perpetual motion has been modeled a lot in the past, and for the most part can work, like those plastic birds with that liquid in them, that always go down and up.

How those work is actually very simple, and pretty interesting. It's a heat engine, using a temperature gradient between the head and the butt of the bird to alternately condense and evaporate a liquid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_bird

If a glass of water is placed so that the beak dips into it on its descent, the bird will continue to absorb water and the cycle will continue as long as there is enough water in the glass to keep the head wet. However, the bird will continue to dip even without a source of water, as long as the head is wet, or as long as a temperature differential is maintained between the head and body. This differential can be generated without evaporative cooling in the head; for instance, a heat source directed at the bottom bulb will create a pressure differential between top and bottom that will drive the engine. The ultimate source of energy is the temperature gradient between the toy's head and base; the toy is not a perpetual motion machine.

[420]

oh now if I even set up perpetual motion there'll be claims i'm using 'wireless power'

[myrkul]

oh now if I even set up perpetual motion there'll be claims i'm using 'wireless power'

Set it up on a glass table, with enough framing that we can see there aren't any hidden power sources.

[01BTC10]

Pretty sure second video use induction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYqAxeyc3bw

[mobodick]

oh now if I even set up perpetual motion there'll be claims i'm using 'wireless power'

Set it up on a glass table, with enough framing that we can see there aren't any hidden power sources.

meh, could still be powered by IR or UV laser..

[myrkul]

oh now if I even set up perpetual motion there'll be claims i'm using 'wireless power'

Set it up on a glass table, with enough framing that we can see there aren't any hidden power sources.

meh, could still be powered by IR or UV laser..

We'd see the pickups for that, it would look a bit like an LED.

Oh, and 420, be sure to include schematics. It's not science if it's not reproducible.

[mobodick]

oh now if I even set up perpetual motion there'll be claims i'm using 'wireless power'

Set it up on a glass table, with enough framing that we can see there aren't any hidden power sources.

meh, could still be powered by IR or UV laser..

We'd see the pickups for that, it would look a bit like an LED.

There are paints that look metallc-grey in the visible spectrum but are transparent in the uv or ir.
So it could have easily been build into the device.

But my point was maybe more that you cannot tell anything from a youtube video.
You see a small part of what could otherwise be (and with these things usually is) a controlled environment.
In all propability this is indeed just induction. But you have to keep in mind that it does not have to be.
So even if it is then demonstrated that it could not have been simple coil induction then you already know it can still be a trick.
That's how you have to think with these kinds of people.

A rule of thumb is: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
None of these free-energy types has come up with any evidence so far.
I think you can safely dismiss any youtube videos about free energy without actually watching them..

[myrkul]

A rule of thumb is: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
None of these free-energy types has come up with any evidence so far.
I think you can safely dismiss any youtube videos about free energy without actually watching them..

Probably true. Key to science, though, is an open mind. If you dismiss all claims without even looking at the evidence, you could miss something groundbreaking. That's why I requested schematics. If I can build it myself, and it works, pulling energy out of thin air, I'll believe it.

[benjamindees]

The first one is obviously fake.  The coil speeds up.  There's probably a battery hidden in the wood block, making a simple motor.  Also, monopole magnets aren't known to exist.

Listen, I'll save you some time.  This is the closest you will come to finding a legitimate magnetic "free energy" device on Youtube.

[Lethn]

From my own research there doesn't really seem to be such a thing as free/infinite energy, we can make it very cheap or you can have lots and lots of it like if you power something from the sun or with water, the problem with all this stuff like perpetual motion is that it does work on a small scale but you have to look at it from an industrial point of view because people want thousands of kilowatts to power cities. Oil and Nuclear are more popular options because of how much easier it is to get that kind of thing going, that said I can understand oil because all you do is dig that out of the ground and burn it after you prepare it but with Nuclear? It's the equivalent of having a nuclear bomb sitting next to your house and I just think that's insane.

All these ideas are for the most part already there, but particularly with sun and wind they're horribly inefficient because when you want to have something powered constantly you can't really have things like weather dictating how much power you're capable of generating if you want to do stuff long term with it. A lot of these people posting the 'free energy' crap on youtube I think are people who are just learning about science and have no idea what they're talking about, either that or they are probably trying to scam you like you think.

[mobodick]

A rule of thumb is: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
None of these free-energy types has come up with any evidence so far.
I think you can safely dismiss any youtube videos about free energy without actually watching them..

Probably true. Key to science, though, is an open mind. If you dismiss all claims without even looking at the evidence, you could miss something groundbreaking. That's why I requested schematics. If I can build it myself, and it works, pulling energy out of thin air, I'll believe it.

If you invented a free energy machine you would not present the evidence in a youtube video...
There are many places that would gladly investigate such claim so there are enough ways for thee people to verify it actually works how they thin it works.
Again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
In this respect a youtube video is useless unless it provides verifyable data collected blindly over many trials. Which is much more convenient to do in text so usually people write papers. And that is when you know you can at least put some effort into taking it seriously...
You simply cannot prove this stuff with a youtube demonstration.

About keeping an open mind, you would be way better off just reading some physics books as the whole playingfield of these quacks has been thoroughly mapped out decades ago by science and there was no free energy found despite the scrutiny. There just is no thing like free energy in a closed system on our macro level. There is a slight possibility there is a source of free energy at the absolute lowest quantum level but that happens at a scale of 10^-37m or something like that. Interfacing with something so small requires you to use tools operating at that level. Needless to say that any macroscopic ontraption could never be precise enough.
All these people playing around with macroscopic objects will never ever be able to magically tap energy out of thin air. It is just not how our univers happens to work.
So unless someone opens a 52th dimentional portal to c'thuluville they just cant be talking about really getting free energy and i'm not taking it serously.

[mobodick]

The first one is obviously fake.  The coil speeds up.  There's probably a battery hidden in the wood block, making a simple motor.  Also, monopole magnets aren't known to exist.

Listen, I'll save you some time.  This is the closest you will come to finding a legitimate magnetic "free energy" device on Youtube.

Not by themselfs, no.