bASIC customers - Are you quitting or switching?

[jamesg]

With Avalon a week from shipping, I'm just hoping I don't pee my pants in anticipation waiting for it.

I hope the only reason for Avalon being silent and not having a demo is because they are busy packaging working products.

[Bogart]

I urge everyone not to overreact. If everyone cancels their orders, I can see Tom having trouble paying everyone back. Keep this in mind... I'd rather get a late ASIC than nothing at all and no refund.

At this point I think the chances of bASIC delivering an ASIC product ever are near zero.

IMO, The only way bASIC can succeed is if Tom steps down and hands the project off.  I don't think he's going to do that.

[Nemesis]

I urge everyone not to overreact. If everyone cancels their orders, I can see Tom having trouble paying everyone back. Keep this in mind... I'd rather get a late ASIC than nothing at all and no refund.

At this point I think the chances of bASIC delivering an ASIC product ever are near zero.

IMO, The only way bASIC can succeed is if Tom steps down and hands the project off.  I don't think he's going to do that.

Why do you think the project is even salvageable?

Why do you ppl trust this "good man" with this ASIC project. Hes not an engineer (technically dumb if i recall back when he started mining venture). Sure he can hire engineers but be honest to yourself, this is not assembling some off the shelf parts.

[Bogart]

I urge everyone not to overreact. If everyone cancels their orders, I can see Tom having trouble paying everyone back. Keep this in mind... I'd rather get a late ASIC than nothing at all and no refund.

At this point I think the chances of bASIC delivering an ASIC product ever are near zero.

IMO, The only way bASIC can succeed is if Tom steps down and hands the project off.  I don't think he's going to do that.

Why do you think the project is even salvageable?

It may well not be salvageable.  Even if a team with the right talent, resources, and credibility were to step in immediately and Tom were to give full cooperation, succeeding would be an uphill battle.

And that's only if the chips are usable, which is a very big if.

[GenTarkin]

Ill be switching to whoever at least shows working product....
I wont order till they be shipping, this preorder scammy shit is BS. Now, I have no idea if I will be gettin back my BTC from bASIC or not since theyve become shady now...Im so fucking pissed. This is turning into another scam and fast..

[tvbcof]

I urge everyone not to overreact. If everyone cancels their orders, I can see Tom having trouble paying everyone back. Keep this in mind... I'd rather get a late ASIC than nothing at all and no refund.

At this point I think the chances of bASIC delivering an ASIC product ever are near zero.

IMO, The only way bASIC can succeed is if Tom steps down and hands the project off.  I don't think he's going to do that.

Why do you think the project is even salvageable?

It may well not be salvageable.  Even if a team with the right talent, resources, and credibility were to step in immediately and Tom were to give full cooperation, succeeding would be an uphill battle.

And that's only if the chips are usable, which is a very big if.

Seemed to me that Lucas (iirc) was about as clear as it gets.  Had a meeting with Tom and found nothing/zero/nada/ziltch of any value.  Certainly no 'chips' regardless of their 'usability', and probably nothing more than some drawings on some napkins.  Sounds like there is nothing to salvage, and even if there was, the performance of the last few days besmirched whatever name Tom had.

If/when another skilled engineer besides the Avalon guy enters the mining space he may as well start from scratch.  Although I could well be fooled, I would trust the new PR guy (buzzdave?) on the basis of his forthright suggestion to go straight to charge-backs, and because he seemed to have been able to get a few people some of their BTC back.

[GenTarkin]

In otherwords, yet another fucking scam...

[Bogart]

In otherwords, yet another fucking scam...

If it is, it's not a very good one.

A good scam doesn't give anyone their money back, unless it's so they can scam even more money.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

In otherwords, yet another fucking scam...

If it is, it's not a very good one.

A good scam doesn't give anyone their money back, unless it's so they can scam even more money.

Unless you got lucky when you put all the BTC deposits in one wallet and the price risen 20% and take your chances on the CC payments over 90 days old. Minus Dave's wages, there's enough left over to feed a family for a while without having to eat leftovers.

[mtminer]

In otherwords, yet another fucking scam...

If it is, it's not a very good one.

A good scam doesn't give anyone their money back, unless it's so they can scam even more money.

Unless you got lucky when you put all the BTC deposits in one wallet and the price risen 20% and take your chances on the CC payments over 90 days old. Minus Dave's wages, there's enough left over to feed a family for a while without having to eat leftovers.

Then why refund 200k of CC orders?

[squid]

With Avalon a week from shipping, I'm just hoping I don't pee my pants in anticipation waiting for it.

I hope the only reason for Avalon being silent and not having a demo is because they are busy packaging working products.

Your beloved BFL is in the same boat.. (They are planning to ship something like 1 week after chips are done).

[DoomDumas]

In otherwords, yet another fucking scam...

I rather call it a business start-up that fails.  I'm sure Tom was truly going after selling working asic system, he just not succeed to do so !z

[tvbcof]

In otherwords, yet another fucking scam...

If it is, it's not a very good one.

A good scam doesn't give anyone their money back, unless it's so they can scam even more money.

Unless you got lucky when you put all the BTC deposits in one wallet and the price risen 20% and take your chances on the CC payments over 90 days old. Minus Dave's wages, there's enough left over to feed a family for a while without having to eat leftovers.

Then why refund 200k of CC orders?

As I understand things, the credit card companies are not stupid...they keep a hold of enough money to protect themselves against charge-backs.  But I've never (and never wanted) to be on the receiving end of credit cards or pay-pal so I don't know the exact details.

Eventually the credit card companies have to fork over the dough to the vendor.  That's why one needs to request a charge-back within a certain period of time of making a purchase.  Those who missed this window will be shit-outa-luck in being made whole via this mechanism.

I guess if one is scamming via credit-card, one needs to have a way to string people along for long enough for the charge-back window to close.  Like maybe you lose your place in the pre-order queue and miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime mining Bitcoin or something along those lines...

[Shadow383]

In otherwords, yet another fucking scam...

If it is, it's not a very good one.

A good scam doesn't give anyone their money back, unless it's so they can scam even more money.

Unless you got lucky when you put all the BTC deposits in one wallet and the price risen 20% and take your chances on the CC payments over 90 days old. Minus Dave's wages, there's enough left over to feed a family for a while without having to eat leftovers.

Then why refund 200k of CC orders?

As I understand things, the credit card companies are not stupid...they keep a hold of enough money to protect themselves against charge-backs.  But I've never (and never wanted) to be on the receiving end of credit cards or pay-pal so I don't know the exact details.

Eventually the credit card companies have to fork over the dough to the vendor.  That's why one needs to request a charge-back within a certain period of time of making a purchase.  Those who missed this window will be shit-outa-luck in being made whole via this mechanism.

I guess if one is scamming via credit-card, one needs to have a way to string people along for long enough for the charge-back window to close.  Like maybe you lose your place in the pre-order queue and miss out on the opportunity of a lifetime mining Bitcoin or something along those lines...

This.
Some of the very early BTCFPGA orders are now outside chargeback window - personally I've got about another ten days to do so on mine, but I have one CC order and one BTC order.
Going to see if Dave replies to me tomorrow, so far this is the correspondance:

[13/01/2013 23:39:25] Me: Hello
Just heard the news about BTCFPGA folding - what's the refund situation as of now?
[14/01/2013 00:06:55] David Carlson: trying not to fold it - dealmaking in progress
[14/01/2013 00:07:08] David Carlson: you can submit a refund if you want, or wait to hear the details this week
[14/01/2013 00:09:24] Me: I think I'd rather just pull the plug and get the refund if I'm honest at this point
[14/01/2013 00:10:07] Me: My order numbers were 785 and 1896
Should be an order for one of the low-end units, an upgrade to one of the high end units and an upgrade to DHL shipping
[14/01/2013 00:10:31] David Carlson: please email it all to me - I need it all in one searchable place
[14/01/2013 00:11:17] Me: Cool, I passed a bunch of it to you on the dave@bitcoinasic email earlier
[14/01/2013 00:12:44] David Carlson: ok great
[14/01/2013 00:14:20] Me: It should be
#785 (Credit Card order) - $599.99 for the base unit + $30 shipping.
Shipping upgrade (BTC) - $60 worth of BTC at that time
#1896 (Bitpay Order using BTC) - $470 worth of BTC at that time
[14/01/2013 12:32:31] Me: So, did that get sorted?

Nothing since then... Have emailed too. Will probably have to process a chargeback for the CC part but that still leaves me $530 out of pocket.

[mufa23]

I was thinking about ordering from bASIC months back, but chose BFL. Out of all the companies, I feel BFL has been up front and honest with their problems and delays (inb4 hate). No chinese new year crap. But actual reasons why they're having trouble getting stuff out the door. Lots of work has been put into it for it just to be a scam. And I could track down a few in the company quite easily if it all was just a scam. As for bASIC and the other companies, I just don't trust them as much as I do BFL. And that is very little at the moment.

[GenTarkin]

I wonder if dave can even communicate anymore w/ tom ... or has tom run off? Cuz its seemin more n more like tom is runnin off.....

[becoin]

I stayed as long as I could, but this is very upsetting to me. Refund requested. Now it looks like BFL and Avalon.

Read the Manual before you do anything:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136615.0

[Trance104]

I would prefer to order from Avalon... Because FUCK BFL.

[crazyates]

I would prefer to order from Avalon... Because FUCK BFL.

Are they even accepting pre-orders for their 2nd batch?

[Sitarow]

I wonder if dave can even communicate anymore w/ tom ... or has tom run off? Cuz its seemin more n more like tom is runnin off.....

Dave's recent update.

Hi everybody - I just wanted you to know that I'm getting your mails - but I can't personally respond to all of them in good time, so I'm posting here.  I've had a major personal upset that has tied me up for two days, so I haven't done the refunds as quickly as you'd like.

Tom called me first thing in the morning to find out what the status on that was and gave me a "friendly push" to get going on them again.  

Tom's sole focus is concentrating on a deal to be agreed upon Friday.  He has set my sole focus to be processing the refund requests in a more timely manner.

I do need a couple days however.  I *have* to be away from the comp from now until tomorrow evening, before I can get back into it.  Again, my apologies to you for the delay.

For the people who've requested refunds, please hang in there - I will be processing them.  Its quickest for me to fly through all the refunds and then post here for folks to check their order status.  I will read all emails and respond to specific ones as necessary.

As soon as I have more news from Friday's meeting, I'll update the forum - thanks again for your patience!

EDIT: I just wanted to add that Tom sounded very upbeat and motivated to see bASIC placed in the hands of a team that can carry it forward to complete his original vision.

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