[HAVELOCK] SDICE Passthru

[ThickAsThieves]

Havelock users are possibly less aware, or less interested in the other passthroughs. Trust could still be a factor, but odds are they just don't know about all the other options. That's my guess.

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[lebing]

Can someone explain why people on Havelock are willing to pay 5-10% more than on BTCTC, MPEX and BitFunder?
It is not that Havelock is more trustworthy or has more other investment opportunities. So why use Havelock and pay more than on any other exchange?

The site is well built & its run by a reputable person. This alone is easily worth 10% over say bitfined or mpex. I dont know about btctc however.

[Bowjob]

Can someone explain why people on Havelock are willing to pay 5-10% more than on BTCTC, MPEX and BitFunder?
It is not that Havelock is more trustworthy or has more other investment opportunities. So why use Havelock and pay more than on any other exchange?

The site is well built & its run by a reputable person. This alone is easily worth 10% over say bitfined or mpex. I dont know about btctc however.

If MPEX turns out to be a scam (which it isn't) Havelock will be affected since there's a direct link between Havelock and MPEX S.Dice shares.

[lebing]

Can someone explain why people on Havelock are willing to pay 5-10% more than on BTCTC, MPEX and BitFunder?
It is not that Havelock is more trustworthy or has more other investment opportunities. So why use Havelock and pay more than on any other exchange?

The site is well built & its run by a reputable person. This alone is easily worth 10% over say bitfined or mpex. I dont know about btctc however.

If MPEX turns out to be a scam (which it isn't) Havelock will be affected since there's a direct link between Havelock and MPEX S.Dice shares.

Yeah - I thought it was obvious why people dont use MPEX. 30 coins just for the privilege of using that POS? Yeah, no thanks.

[thoughtfan]

Can someone explain why people on Havelock are willing to pay 5-10% more than on BTCTC, MPEX and BitFunder?
It is not that Havelock is more trustworthy or has more other investment opportunities. So why use Havelock and pay more than on any other exchange?

I'm wondering again about this substantial price difference between Havelock and MPEx.  Lightbox, on your site you say:

"Units of the fund ARE convertible to shares on MPEX at 1 unit = 100 shares PUSHED to your MPEx account for a fixed fee of 10 BTC per transfer (fee subject to change)."

Is that an automated service or do you have to do that manually.

[MPOE-PR]

The site is well built & its run by a reputable person. This alone is easily worth 10% over say bitfined or mpex. I dont know about btctc however.

No idea what you mean by bitfined, but since the various PTs are PTs of MPEx you can hardly imagine one'd be "more" trustworthy. At the absolute logical most they're equally trustworthy to MPEx for this application.

Yeah - I thought it was obvious why people dont use MPEX. 30 coins just for the privilege of using that POS? Yeah, no thanks.

It is obvious why you don't use MPEx. People do use it, to the tune of 90% of all BTC finance, actually. Simmer down.

I'm wondering again about this substantial price difference between Havelock and MPEx.  Lightbox, on your site you say:

"Units of the fund ARE convertible to shares on MPEX at 1 unit = 100 shares PUSHED to your MPEx account for a fixed fee of 10 BTC per transfer (fee subject to change)."

Is that an automated service or do you have to do that manually.

If the stock trades on MPEx in the 70s and on Havelock in the 80s, then you need at least 10k shares moved for the price difference to make up that 10 BTC Havelock fee. I guess the explanation may be that "the people" (illustrated above) don't much trade in whole lots.

[Korbman]

Yeah - I thought it was obvious why people dont use MPEX. 30 coins just for the privilege of using that POS? Yeah, no thanks.

Pretty much. I was going to join ages ago, but then I realized that I'd only be trading, what, 3 securities? Talk about diversification  ..not to mention it looks like a child developed it after reading "HTML for Dummies".

Definitely not worth it unless you're looking to put thousands of bitcoins into one stock without wanting passthroughs to take a cut. The provided security of GPG is also a plus..until another more professional exchange comes along and implements the same thing. Mix that with, oh I don't know, 4 securities to trade and *poof* MPEx is obsolete.

[MPOE-PR]

Pretty much. I was going to join ages ago, but then I realized that I'd only be trading, what, 3 securities? Talk about diversification  ..not to mention it looks like a child developed it after reading "HTML for Dummies".

Definitely not worth it unless you're looking to put thousands of bitcoins into one stock without wanting passthroughs to take a cut. The provided security of GPG is also a plus..until another more professional exchange comes along and implements the same thing. Mix that with, oh I don't know, 4 securities to trade and *poof* MPEx is obsolete.

Yet another dood that knows better than the experts. You'll blow a hole in your own skull with that shotgun you think you know how to work, sparky.

[Korbman]

Yet another dood that knows better than the experts. You'll blow a hole in your own skull with that shotgun you think you know how to work, sparky.

Ha! Oh MPOE, it looks like you may need to go back and look up the definition of the word Experts. I can always count on you for a good laugh

I've noticed you seem to be on a "sparky" kick lately as well.

[btcsql]

As someone who was initially very impressed with the fund, I am now left wondering -- why hasn't Havelock taken advantage of the order book and filled the orders with new share units created from the MPEX sell side? I am sure there is a certain level of desire to keep the Havelock fund trading at X% premium for what ever reason, but it is not really a good reason... I don't think it's right for the fund to trade at an upwards of 20% premium to the underlying. For instance, right now there are 7000 shares on MPEX at an ask of .0063, and the Havelock bid is up to .736 for 21 units (2100 mpex shares).

There are only a few ways to resolve this issue, which is of course an issue because it means people are over paying by a significant amount. One would be: let people convert MPEX shares into the Havelock pass thru units, which I see is already existent -- although the process for conversion is not clear. The other would be: Havelock manages their order book as any broker would, and matches supply to demand, simply buying the units on MPEX and flipping them to the bids on Havelock.

This arbitrage needs to take place for the market to remain healthy, and frankly I am left feeling suspect as to why this hasn't already occurred. It seems to me (please correct me if I am wrong) that there is nothing stopping Havelock from buying the shares on MPEX, creating units (incrementing a SQL entry) on Havelock, and selling them to the market. It would be better for all parties involved if this kind of additional liquidity would be provided to Havelock shareholders.

I believe it is the duty of the fund to take advantage of these market dislocations when they exist to improve the overall efficiency, structure, and liquidity of our dear BTC markets. Look forward to hearing a response from James et al

[ThickAsThieves]

As someone who was initially very impressed with the fund, I am now left wondering -- why hasn't Havelock taken advantage of the order book and filled the orders with new share units created from the MPEX sell side? I am sure there is a certain level of desire to keep the Havelock fund trading at X% premium for what ever reason, but it is not really a good reason... I don't think it's right for the fund to trade at an upwards of 20% premium to the underlying. For instance, right now there are 7000 shares on MPEX at an ask of .0063, and the Havelock bid is up to .736 for 21 units (2100 mpex shares).

There are only a few ways to resolve this issue, which is of course an issue because it means people are over paying by a significant amount. One would be: let people convert MPEX shares into the Havelock pass thru units. The other would be: Havelock manages their order book as any broker would, and matches supply to demand, simply buying the units on MPEX and flipping them to the bids on Havelock.

This arbitrage needs to take place for the market to remain healthy, and frankly I am left feeling suspect as to why this hasn't already occurred. It seems to me (please correct me if I am wrong) that there is nothing stopping Havelock from buying the shares on MPEX, creating units (incrementing a SQL entry) on Havelock, and selling them to the market. It would be better for all parties involved if this kind of additional liquidity would be provided to Havelock shareholders.

I believe it is the duty of the fund to take advantage of these market dislocations when they exist to improve the overall efficiency, structure, and liquidity of our dear BTC markets. Look forward to hearing a response from James et al

I don't see any problem with Havelock choosing whether or not to fill asks, regardless of the price. New investors are welcome to get cheaper shares wherever they can find them.

[lebing]

As someone who was initially very impressed with the fund, I am now left wondering -- why hasn't Havelock taken advantage of the order book and filled the orders with new share units created from the MPEX sell side? I am sure there is a certain level of desire to keep the Havelock fund trading at X% premium for what ever reason, but it is not really a good reason... I don't think it's right for the fund to trade at an upwards of 20% premium to the underlying. For instance, right now there are 7000 shares on MPEX at an ask of .0063, and the Havelock bid is up to .736 for 21 units (2100 mpex shares).

There are only a few ways to resolve this issue, which is of course an issue because it means people are over paying by a significant amount. One would be: let people convert MPEX shares into the Havelock pass thru units. The other would be: Havelock manages their order book as any broker would, and matches supply to demand, simply buying the units on MPEX and flipping them to the bids on Havelock.

This arbitrage needs to take place for the market to remain healthy, and frankly I am left feeling suspect as to why this hasn't already occurred. It seems to me (please correct me if I am wrong) that there is nothing stopping Havelock from buying the shares on MPEX, creating units (incrementing a SQL entry) on Havelock, and selling them to the market. It would be better for all parties involved if this kind of additional liquidity would be provided to Havelock shareholders.

I believe it is the duty of the fund to take advantage of these market dislocations when they exist to improve the overall efficiency, structure, and liquidity of our dear BTC markets. Look forward to hearing a response from James et al

I don't see any problem with Havelock choosing whether or not to fill asks, regardless of the price. New investors are welcome to get cheaper shares wherever they can find them.

Exactly. Additionally, let this be a lesson to those who want to do an IPO in the future what happens when you list on MPEX.

[MPOE-PR]

As someone who was initially very impressed with the fund, I am now left wondering -- why hasn't Havelock taken advantage of the order book and filled the orders with new share units created from the MPEX sell side? I am sure there is a certain level of desire to keep the Havelock fund trading at X% premium for what ever reason, but it is not really a good reason... I don't think it's right for the fund to trade at an upwards of 20% premium to the underlying. For instance, right now there are 7000 shares on MPEX at an ask of .0063, and the Havelock bid is up to .736 for 21 units (2100 mpex shares).

There are only a few ways to resolve this issue, which is of course an issue because it means people are over paying by a significant amount. One would be: let people convert MPEX shares into the Havelock pass thru units, which I see is already existent -- although the process for conversion is not clear. The other would be: Havelock manages their order book as any broker would, and matches supply to demand, simply buying the units on MPEX and flipping them to the bids on Havelock.

This arbitrage needs to take place for the market to remain healthy, and frankly I am left feeling suspect as to why this hasn't already occurred. It seems to me (please correct me if I am wrong) that there is nothing stopping Havelock from buying the shares on MPEX, creating units (incrementing a SQL entry) on Havelock, and selling them to the market. It would be better for all parties involved if this kind of additional liquidity would be provided to Havelock shareholders.

I believe it is the duty of the fund to take advantage of these market dislocations when they exist to improve the overall efficiency, structure, and liquidity of our dear BTC markets. Look forward to hearing a response from James et al

In principle what you describe is how things should work. I doubt the recent inactivity on the part of the fund manager is intentional - he hasn't been on irc either. I imagine the likely explanation is person had some irl stuff to attend to, couldn't log in for a day or two. These things happen, weddings, funerals, car gets stolen, hospital visit, thousand possible reasons. Probably once they get back online the backlog will be resolved.

[Korbman]

[...] recent inactivity on the part of the fund manager is intentional - he hasn't been on irc either. I imagine the likely explanation is person had some irl stuff to attend to

James is out of town this whole week. He'll be back on the 18th.

[btcsql]

[...] recent inactivity on the part of the fund manager is intentional - he hasn't been on irc either. I imagine the likely explanation is person had some irl stuff to attend to

James is out of town this whole week. He'll be back on the 18th.

I understand completely -- please excuse any undertones of criticism that may have penetrated my post; I do think Havelock provides a very valuable service, I was irrelevantly echoing how I would manage the fund to the benefit of all parties. Hopefully when James comes back he will consider matching the Havelock order book with MPEX shares so the spread doesn't approach 20%.

[Choadzilla]

site's down..

[lightbox]

site's down..

Routing issue this morning. Nothing wrong with the site itself.

James

[MPOE-PR]

site's down..

Routing issue this morning. Nothing wrong with the site itself.

James

There was something similar reported re MPEx yest, some people couldn't reach it.

[lightbox]

site's down..

Routing issue this morning. Nothing wrong with the site itself.

James

There was something similar reported re MPEx yest, some people couldn't reach it.

Some CCNE somewhere broke the interwebs and got fired. lol.

[ThickAsThieves]

This stock is at an all time low sell/buy now!