Havelockinvestments.com: Who are they and why would anyone trust them?

[deadweasel]

I can't find anything about havelock investments that would convince me to trust them with my bitcoins.  I don't see havelock investments thread here that convinces me this is anything but another scam. 

https://www.havelockinvestments.com/contact.php

Has pretty basic and easily faked stuff.  I know they are a mining group, but that doesn't convince me to invest in their shares. 

Bitcoin reviews single comment doesn't give me any trust either:

http://www.thebitcoinreview.com/site.php?site_id=965

Who are they? 

If you have invested with them, what made you feel safe enough to invest your bitcoins?   

Why can't I find any real information about them? 

What is your personal opinion?



Thanks in advance -- I very much want to invest in SDICE but none of the available options put me at ease enough to do so.

[Lethn]

This is one of the risks involved with Bitcoins and what it will be like from now on if you use Bitcoins regularly, you won't ever know 100% whether you can trust the person on the other end or that they are even who they say they are. What I would recommend if you're unsure about a company but they look professional invest a small amount of Bitcoins and see how it goes. The usual rules of investing apply, never invest more than you can afford to lose and always do checks on the company.

If you still feel you can't trust them then don't put any money in, all that will happen is you haven't made anything, but you also haven't lost anything either.

[deadweasel]

This is one of the risks involved with Bitcoins and what it will be like from now on if you use Bitcoins regularly, you won't ever know 100% whether you can trust the person on the other end or that they are even who they say they are. What I would recommend if you're unsure about a company but they look professional invest a small amount of Bitcoins and see how it goes. The usual rules of investing apply, never invest more than you can afford to lose and always do checks on the company.

If you still feel you can't trust them then don't put any money in, all that will happen is you haven't made anything, but you also haven't lost anything either.

I don't know what I was hoping for.  I realize all of the above, but was hoping somebody had put together a dossier or something on these guys. 

Maybe I should start a bitocin service vetting company?  Hrm, no, too likely to be sued when an owner up and goes to malaysia. 

Thanks though!

[Bowjob]

Havelock is run by the same guy who operates Canadian Bitcoins and Lightbox technologies.

http://www.lightbox.ca/

They have been around for a while now even before Bitcoin.

http://www.lightbox.ca/about.php

[deadweasel]

Havelock is run by the same guy who operates Canadian Bitcoins and Lightbox technologies.

http://www.lightbox.ca/

They have been around for a while now even before Bitcoin.

http://www.lightbox.ca/about.php

Many thanks, I will look into lightbox.  I have heard the name thrown around but didn't know what they did. 


Do you invest some of your BTCs through one of these services?

[thoughtfan]

Do you invest some of your BTCs through one of these services?

I have made a small investment in S.DICE in recent days through Havelock on the basis of the conversation that was going on this thread.  No problems so far but I've not tried to sell, nor have there been any dividends so I'm not in a position to vouch for them much other than to say it was straightforward.  The web service seems to do what it says on the box!

[Bowjob]

Havelock is run by the same guy who operates Canadian Bitcoins and Lightbox technologies.

http://www.lightbox.ca/

They have been around for a while now even before Bitcoin.

http://www.lightbox.ca/about.php

Many thanks, I will look into lightbox.  I have heard the name thrown around but didn't know what they did. 


Do you invest some of your BTCs through one of these services?

Yes, I have some shares at Havelock. I chat with James from time to time through his irc channel. I'm positive he's legit. Heck you can visit his office at Ottawa if you want to drop by.

[Portnoy]

Since August they have been in partnership with the Canadian Bitcoin exchange VirtEx (www.cavirtex.com), which has proven itself to be fairly trustworthy ( even though the dramatic increase in their fees has pretty much put an end to arbitrage opportunities with them... for small-time players like myself anyway.     ).

[lightbox]

And I'm here too, so ask me anything, send me an email, give me a call, or stop by the office sometime

[JordanL]

I don't know the company, but I've been using cavirtex for some time, they've been extremely reliable and I trust them as much as any company currently in Bitcoin. Based on that, I've invested a couple dozen BTC in the mining funds and S.Dice passthrough on Havelockinvestments.com. They don't seem to have a very high liquidity compared to other platforms, but their system is really good. I'm excited to watch them grow as they earn more trust, and more users find out about them.

[thoughtfan]

Havelock is run by the same guy who operates Canadian Bitcoins and Lightbox technologies.

http://www.lightbox.ca/

They have been around for a while now even before Bitcoin.

http://www.lightbox.ca/about.php

Many thanks, I will look into lightbox.  I have heard the name thrown around but didn't know what they did. 


Do you invest some of your BTCs through one of these services?

Yes, I have some shares at Havelock. I chat with James from time to time through his irc channel. I'm positive he's legit. Heck you can visit his office at Ottawa if you want to drop by.

There's a good chance some of the Bitcoin kid-operating-out-of-basement outfits will become very successful in due course but it's somewhat reassuring to know that at least this part of the process is a bricks-and-mortar established business.  I'm getting the sense that not all are happy to entrust their trades to MPEx but that's not a reflection on Havelock Investments.

If my understanding of the relationship between Havelock, MPEx and S.DICE is correct this is a weakest link scenario.  So whilst content enough to go ahead with some shares - even if it's just to say a silent thank you to all the players when when I see the bets piling through on the block chain - it is my assessment that the whole picture is a bit precarious for me to be looking at investing substantial sums right now.

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

If my understanding of the relationship between Havelock, MPEx and S.DICE is correct this is a weakest link scenario.  So whilst content enough to go ahead with some shares - even if it's just to say a silent thank you to all the players when when I see the bets piling through on the block chain - it is my assessment that the whole picture is a bit precarious for me to be looking at investing substantial sums right now.

My sentiment exactly.  It's hard enough to trust to trust the issuer, and then adding two more layers of potential failure and fraud top of that, it becomes pure gambling, not investing.

I'm hoping that if Satoshi Dice ever does a secondary offering, the "colored coin" & p2p exchange clients (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106373.0) will be mature enough so that ownership and distribution of assets can be done directly through the Blockchain, without 3rd parties.

We've successfully disintermediated banks and credit cards...now it's time to disintermediate exchanges.

[MPOE-PR]

I'm hoping that if Satoshi Dice ever does a secondary offering, the "colored coin" & p2p exchange clients (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106373.0) will be mature enough so that ownership and distribution of assets can be done directly through the Blockchain, without 3rd parties.

Never going to happen. In the case of S.DICE the contract spells that out, but in the case of everyone else: if you are a legitimate business, circumventing the exchange does not, in fact, make sense. The only way what you propose makes sense is if someone is trying to play the lemon game. You can see that point discussed in more detail here.

[niko]

If you have invested with them, what made you feel safe enough to invest your bitcoins?   

Time. I've been doing business there for a while. As for the initial step, see below.

Why can't I find any real information about them? 

Because you haven't really tried.

[fydel]

The havelockinvestments.com site is down.  Two days after I put some bitcoins there...

I hate this game. 

[thoughtfan]

The havelockinvestments.com site is down.  Two days after I put some bitcoins there...

I hate this game. 

Have you PM'd lightbox?  Maybe a downside of it being a bricks and mortar outfit is that it's likely they have weekends (or Sundays at least) off and are unaware that there is a problem?

[lightbox]

The havelockinvestments.com site is down.  Two days after I put some bitcoins there...

I hate this game. 

Hi all our sites are currently down. Server issue. I'm working on getting it fixed...

[molecular]

The havelockinvestments.com site is down.  Two days after I put some bitcoins there...

I hate this game. 

Havelock is one of the nicest implementations of a trading interface. I trade there and have put a substantial portion of money there. I've also withdrawn 15% of that money again with no problem. Lightbox is running things extremely well.

For some reason I trust these guys.

I've not been scammed a lot, but in the case it happened the page was extremely crappy (bitdaytrade or whatever they were called). If that's any indication, havelock is not a scam and can be trusted. (Of course it's not an indication).

Don't put more money than you can afford to lose into any investment.

[lightbox]

The havelockinvestments.com site is down.  Two days after I put some bitcoins there...

I hate this game. 

Hi all our sites are currently down. Server issue. I'm working on getting it fixed...

Everything is now operational again, sorry for the downtime!

James

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

I'm hoping that if Satoshi Dice ever does a secondary offering, the "colored coin" & p2p exchange clients (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106373.0) will be mature enough so that ownership and distribution of assets can be done directly through the Blockchain, without 3rd parties.

Never going to happen. In the case of S.DICE the contract spells that out, but in the case of everyone else: if you are a legitimate business, circumventing the exchange does not, in fact, make sense. The only way what you propose makes sense is if someone is trying to play the lemon game. You can see that point discussed in more detail here.

Congratulations on getting exclusivity on that deal.  Well played.

To clarify, I don't foresee a future without brokers, exchangers, or financial services.  There will always be  a need for specialization and delegation; serious companies will continue to use specialist services.  But what I do think is inevitable, if Bitcoin is successful, is that people will demand zero-trust, blockchain-style, incorruptible pseudonymous ledgers as the lowest stratum for ownership of all their financial assets, not just BTC.  Then on top of that, you might get different kinds of providers catering to different scenarios: IPO handlers, fullservice brokers, discount brokers, trusts, etc., all coexisting on top of the same asset-tracking blockchain.

Within the various service types, undoubtedly we will see the network effects and survival of the fittest that you describe in your other post, and your company might become the premier entity in any of those segments.  But for risk mitigation purposes and for those who enjoy getting their hands dirty, the option would (should!) always exist to verify & transfer ownership of assets at a blockchain level, without intermediaries.

Zero trust for basic storage and ownership; with trust and fees for optional value-add services.  That's the Bitcoin model, and in my opinion it's a great model worth expanding to as many intangible assets as possible.