SafeDice.com is rigging my rolls.

[ned.ryerson]

Ok folks.  I started winning big at SafeDice.com late last week.  I am currently up almost 48BTC.  I've withdrawn about 30BTC as of this morning before the hot wallet was dry again.

Just within the past hours, there has been some very flaky behavior on the site regarding rolls.  I was doing my variation on martingale when I noticed I would click roll but no result would come back.  So I'd refresh the page just to make sure it wasn't an issue with my browser not displaying the result.  Sure enough, there was no roll.  I would click roll a few more times and it would go through finally.  Some seemed fishy, so I checked the roll details of my rolls.

Please see the results of my investigation here:  http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ.
Also a link to the 3rd party roll verifier:  here

[Lutpin]

So between bet 98190081 and bet 98190403 SafeDice is skipping nonces from 2993 to 3030?


Having a closer look, they aint. There are bets of yours missing in your history.
98190085 has the expected nonce (2994), but is a 0 value (winning) bet.
98190091 has the nonce after that (2995), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet.
98190100 with the next nonce (2996), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet.


I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me),
or if it's just a bug for you.
But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls.

[ned.ryerson]

So between bet 98190081 and bet 98190403 SafeDice is skipping nonces from 2993 to 3030?


Having a closer look, they aint. There are bets of yours missing in your history.
98190085 has the expected nonce (2994), but is a 0 value (winning) bet.
98190091 has the nonce after that (2995), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet.
98190100 with the next nonce (2996), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet.


I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me),
or if it's just a bug for you.
But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls.

Those aren't rolls that I made.  I am doing martingale and never rolled "0".  They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot).

[Lutpin]

Those aren't rolls that I made.  I am doing martingale and never rolled "0".  They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot).

I'd contact their support and ask for a bug bounty/refund, providing everything you got so far.
Might be some connection related bug (you having to press several times before getting a roll through), or some other kind of bug.
I wouldn't yet asume it to be malicious from their side.


If they send you a bounty, feel free to tip me a cut, as I've discovered what you missed out.

[Mumbeeptind1963]

I encounter this too in PD but just once.
my bet is low anyway.
martingale is the method im playing too.

[NUFCrichard]

Ok folks.  I started winning big at SafeDice.com late last week.  I am currently up almost 48BTC.  I've withdrawn about 30BTC as of this morning before the hot wallet was dry again.

Just within the past hours, there has been some very flaky behavior on the site regarding rolls.  I was doing my variation on martingale when I noticed I would click roll but no result would come back.  So I'd refresh the page just to make sure it wasn't an issue with my browser not displaying the result.  Sure enough, there was no roll.  I would click roll a few more times and it would go through finally.  Some seemed fishy, so I checked the roll details of my rolls.

Please see the results of my investigation here:  http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ.
Also a link to the 3rd party roll verifier:  here

If they are proveable fair, then they can't be rigging the dice.  It sounds like they have been having software problems, I would at least wait it out until they look into it. 

It is of course possible that you have either found a flaw, or they are in trouble so decided to start messing with the fairness, but I doubt that is the case.

[ned.ryerson]

So between bet 98190081 and bet 98190403 SafeDice is skipping nonces from 2993 to 3030?


Having a closer look, they aint. There are bets of yours missing in your history.
98190085 has the expected nonce (2994), but is a 0 value (winning) bet.
98190091 has the nonce after that (2995), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet.
98190100 with the next nonce (2996), aswell a 0 value (losing) bet.


I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me),
or if it's just a bug for you.
But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls.

Also, please explain why my current nonce showed as 3000 after I had a bet with nonce 3030.

[Lutpin]

Also, please explain why my current nonce showed as 3000 after I had a bet with nonce 3030.

I'm not SafeDice, I can't.
I only showed you what I've found from investigating the situation you've presented us.

[BoXXoB]

Those aren't rolls that I made.  I am doing martingale and never rolled "0".  They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot).

I'd contact their support and ask for a bug bounty/refund, providing everything you got so far.
Might be some connection related bug (you having to press several times before getting a roll through), or some other kind of bug.
I wouldn't yet asume it to be malicious from their side.


If they send you a bounty, feel free to tip me a cut, as I've discovered what you missed out.

Bets with value of 0 indeed seem to be left out of history but by the looks of it they only disappear after a refresh.

[Mumbeeptind1963]

Those aren't rolls that I made.  I am doing martingale and never rolled "0".  They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot).

I'd contact their support and ask for a bug bounty/refund, providing everything you got so far.
Might be some connection related bug (you having to press several times before getting a roll through), or some other kind of bug.
I wouldn't yet asume it to be malicious from their side.


If they send you a bounty, feel free to tip me a cut, as I've discovered what you missed out.

Look at PD is this normal? i use martingale x33.00

I sent a report on PD no reply or bounty.

[DarkStar_]

Ok folks.  I started winning big at SafeDice.com late last week.  I am currently up almost 48BTC.  I've withdrawn about 30BTC as of this morning before the hot wallet was dry again.

Just within the past hours, there has been some very flaky behavior on the site regarding rolls.  I was doing my variation on martingale when I noticed I would click roll but no result would come back.  So I'd refresh the page just to make sure it wasn't an issue with my browser not displaying the result.  Sure enough, there was no roll.  I would click roll a few more times and it would go through finally.  Some seemed fishy, so I checked the roll details of my rolls.

Please see the results of my investigation here:  http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ.
Also a link to the 3rd party roll verifier:  here

If they are proveable fair, then they can't be rigging the dice.  It sounds like they have been having software problems, I would at least wait it out until they look into it.  

It is of course possible that you have either found a flaw, or they are in trouble so decided to start messing with the fairness, but I doubt that is the case.

That isn't true. There was a site (dicecoin or something, forgot the exact name) that had a provably fair system, but skipped winning nonces, making it harder to win. Safedice also uses a nonce system and they could have something set so that if the bet is going to be winning with a nonce of 1, they will do nonce 2 instead. It will verify normally and you won't notice anything unless you check if the nonces are in order.

Those aren't rolls that I made.  I am doing martingale and never rolled "0".  They also don't show up in the "My Bets" (1st screenshot).

I'd contact their support and ask for a bug bounty/refund, providing everything you got so far.
Might be some connection related bug (you having to press several times before getting a roll through), or some other kind of bug.
I wouldn't yet asume it to be malicious from their side.


If they send you a bounty, feel free to tip me a cut, as I've discovered what you missed out.

Look at PD is this normal? i use martingale x33.00

I sent a report on PD no reply or bounty.

Looks normal to me. Don't see the point of the screenshot, if it's about the losing streak of 8, it's not unlikely with low chance of winning.

[poplolnman]

I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me),
or if it's just a bug for you.
But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls.

0 amount bets are shown in our bet history there in SafeDice , so the bet shouldn't be hidden .
In this case frequently happened a user that feel not satisfied because they have won previously make they feel "this is should be win!" Win win and win and they would do everything to blame.
So far I can't see something wrong here, op please re-upload the screenshot or maybe  bring more evidence. So maybe we can help to figure out what's wrong exactly here.

[ned.ryerson]

I'm not familiar with the site, so I don't know if they hide 0 value bets in the history by default (seems possible to me),
or if it's just a bug for you.
But right now, I don't think they are rigging your rolls.

0 amount bets are shown in our bet history there in SafeDice , so the bet shouldn't be hidden .
In this case frequently happened a user that feel not satisfied because they have won previously make they feel "this is should be win!" Win win and win and they would do everything to blame.
So far I can't see something wrong here, op please re-upload the screenshot or maybe  bring more evidence. So maybe we can help to figure out what's wrong exactly here.

You can see the screenshots here:  http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ.  The main issue is the nonce being at 3000 after I already had a roll using nonce 3030.  Its obvious something strange was happening with the nonce.  I absolutely did NOT place any bets at "0".  If I lost, I set the bet at 2x and re-rolled.

[Lutpin]

You can see the screenshots here:  http://imgur.com/a/JLVQQ.  The main issue is the nonce being at 3000 after I already had a roll using nonce 3030.  Its obvious something strange was happening with the nonce.  I absolutely did NOT place any bets at "0".  If I lost, I set the bet at 2x and re-rolled.

As said, contact them, report it as a bug with all the information collected here, ask for a refund and/or a bug bounty.
Then wait for their answer and see how to proceed from there.

Look at PD is this normal? i use martingale x33.00
I sent a report on PD no reply or bounty.

You gonna have to provide more than just a plain screen of your last bets in order for people to catch what you're questioning and where your problem lies.

[SafeDice]

First of all my apologies for this confusion, especially to Ned. Please dont get it wrongly, we have been established since 2014 and there are people who won more than 50 BTC in total.

I ensure you it wasn't an attempt to 'rig' your rolls or to make you have a losing bet. I havent check the bets myself but I see Lutpin has done it. Whatever causes this isn't planned and therefore I believe the end result is random. I'd love to see if there's a pattern in it.

From the server side, all bets seem to be pretty valid, I'll check if I got any clue on this.

[ned.ryerson]

First of all my apologies for this confusion, especially to Ned. Please dont get it wrongly, we have been established since 2014 and there are people who won more than 50 BTC in total.

I ensure you it wasn't an attempt to 'rig' your rolls or to make you have a losing bet. I havent check the bets myself but I see Lutpin has done it. Whatever causes this isn't planned and therefore I believe the end result is random. I'd love to see if there's a pattern in it.

From the server side, all bets seem to be pretty valid, I'll check if I got any clue on this.

Please check and let me know.  I did not ever click roll while betting 0.  And please explain how my nonce on the "fair" page showed 3000 AFTER bet 98190403 (which used nonce 3030) was placed.

[NLNico]

So actual bet history (bold = in screenshot):

#98146261 - nonce #2495 - BTC0.016 (win)

... 466 bets with 0 amount ?? (I am too lazy to run my script to get those ) ...

#98189833 - nonce #2960 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189843 - nonce #2961 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189847 - nonce #2962 - BTC0.001 (loss)
#98189852 - nonce #2963 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189864 - nonce #2964 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189875 - nonce #2965 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189886 - nonce #2966 - BTC0.002 (loss)
#98189887 - nonce #2967 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189896 - nonce #2968 - BTC0.004 (loss)
#98189899 - nonce #2969 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189910 - nonce #2970 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189921 - nonce #2971 - BTC0 (win)
#98189932 - nonce #2972 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189943 - nonce #2973 - BTC0 (win)
#98189954 - nonce #2974 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189962 - nonce #2975 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189973 - nonce #2976 - BTC0 (loss)
#98189981 - nonce #2977 - BTC0 (win)
#98189989 - nonce #2978 - BTC0 (win)
#98189998 - nonce #2979 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190005 - nonce #2980 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190015 - nonce #2981 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190022 - nonce #2982 - BTC0.008 (loss)
#98190028 - nonce #2983 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190036 - nonce #2984 - BTC0.016 (loss)
#98190037 - nonce #2985 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190044 - nonce #2986 - BTC0.032 (loss)
#98190048 - nonce #2987 - BTC0 (win)
#98190055 - nonce #2988 - BTC0 (win)
#98190065 - nonce #2989 - BTC0.064 (loss)
#98190067 - nonce #2990 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190074 - nonce #2991 - BTC0.128 (loss)
#98190075 - nonce #2992 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190081 - nonce #2993 - BTC0.256 (loss)
#98190085 - nonce #2994 - BTC0 (win)
#98190091 - nonce #2995 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190100 - nonce #2996 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190110 - nonce #2997 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190119 - nonce #2998 - BTC0 (win)
#98190125 - nonce #2999 - BTC0 (win)
#98190136 - nonce #3000 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190143 - nonce #3001 - BTC0 (win)
#98190153 - nonce #3002 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190162 - nonce #3003 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190169 - nonce #3004 - BTC0 (win)
#98190179 - nonce #3005 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190188 - nonce #3006 - BTC0 (win)
#98190195 - nonce #3007 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190205 - nonce #3008 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190215 - nonce #3009 - BTC0 (win)
#98190223 - nonce #3010 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190230 - nonce #3011 - BTC0 (win)
#98190242 - nonce #3012 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190249 - nonce #3013 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190260 - nonce #3014 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190266 - nonce #3015 - BTC0 (win)
#98190275 - nonce #3016 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190286 - nonce #3017 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190294 - nonce #3018 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190304 - nonce #3019 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190312 - nonce #3020 - BTC0 (win)
#98190323 - nonce #3021 - BTC0 (win)
#98190331 - nonce #3022 - BTC0 (win)
#98190339 - nonce #3023 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190346 - nonce #3024 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190356 - nonce #3025 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190366 - nonce #3026 - BTC0 (win)
#98190376 - nonce #3027 - BTC0 (win)
#98190387 - nonce #3028 - BTC0 (loss)
#98190396 - nonce #3029 - BTC0 (win)
#98190403 - nonce #3030 - BTC0.512 (loss)

Seems plenty of bets were 0 amount (way more than 30.) Note: if you refresh the page on SafeDice, the 0 amount bets are actually not shown in bet history.




Player's fault?
The most logical explanation is that player made 0 amount bets, which are not shown after you refresh the page. But OP claims he doesn't make 0 amount bets. It does make me curious why between that last win and first lose, there are 466 bets with 0 amount. I find it hard to imagine that OP clicked 466 times without getting any bet result.

But if it's really true that his nonce-counter says "3000" but his real last bet nonce is at "3030", then there is probably at least some server-side problem. (In theory that screenshot could have been made in between though, but I assume SafeDice can check this.)


Rigging?
I was going to give multiple reasons why I do not think it's "rigging". But 1 reason seems enough: from nonce #2960 to nonce #2970 (including), he would have a losing streak of 11 bets. While this actual losing streak is only 10 bets. So if it's rigged, they are not very good at it :XD



Overall to me it implies much more some server-side issue that results in 0 amount bets, but I have no idea what/how.

Basically I do hope/expect another explanation from SafeDice.





Just my 2 satoshis.

[BitBatFan]

First of all my apologies for this confusion, especially to Ned. Please dont get it wrongly, we have been established since 2014 and there are people who won more than 50 BTC in total.

I ensure you it wasn't an attempt to 'rig' your rolls or to make you have a losing bet. I havent check the bets myself but I see Lutpin has done it. Whatever causes this isn't planned and therefore I believe the end result is random. I'd love to see if there's a pattern in it.

From the server side, all bets seem to be pretty valid, I'll check if I got any clue on this.

Website is 15 months old so don't get to excited with established since 2014.
Showing 0 bet if bet actually arrived to server, but you're too afraid user will win again is just too sick.

[ned.ryerson]

Is there any result on your server-side investigation?

[ned.ryerson]

Hello SD Admin?  Care to share what happened?  Also what is up with not being able to withdraw again?