mixers, anonymisers and bitcoin obfuscators

[Jet Cash]

I've noticed that several members seem to be having problems as a result of using these services. With Google, Microsoft and others installing keyloggers, and other anti-privacy "services", is it worth trying to use them. I assume their use just draws attention to your transactions.

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[watashi-kokoto]

Not only draws attention, the Mt-gox type events are common.

[lottery248]

they are used to help anonymize the criminals, lol. in that case, they will be able to earn more money for the better service for those criminals. lmao.

[SFR10]

They sort of draw attention but the hard part begins there too since people who use this type of services, don't use public computers AFAIK so keyloggers don't have a chance there (not sure regarding other types of anti-privacy softwares). People that use this type of services are likely to stay anonymous forever or are hiding larger funds on their account or worst are somehow criminals. Could you be more specific on what type of problems users experienced?

[Jet Cash]

Windows 10 now contains a keylogger. I'm commenting on the problems posted in this forum. I don't use any of the services, so I don't have any direct experience.

[freshman777]

One of problems in using Bitcoin mixers is 'dirty' coins from SilkRoad type websites. You put your coins in a mixer, you get back 'tainted' coins, who knows what kind of shady deals they had been used in before you got them. Keylogger is not a problem, don't use Windows - problem solved.

[unamis76]

I don't think it draws attention to your transactions, especially because it's supposed to do the opposite... It's supposed to give you fresh coins in order to further enhance your privacy. It's also not designed or especially made for criminals, they just find it useful because of obvious reasons.

For the normal person it's a good tool to make your spending more private if you accidentally end up making your addresses known. Too bad many of these services turn out to be ran by scammers...

As for if they're worth using or not... Not really for me, but it has it's advantages.

[|Bitcoin|]

at the least it can help prevent some spying. not entirety about what will happen but can help be more anonymous and cannot be track.

[seedtrue]

I use a mixer sometimes, and I do not use Bitcoin for any illegal purposes. Sometimes I just like to feel like there is no body watching/following my transactions. I guess I may be a little paranoid, but I do not think I am the only one that does the same.

[DimensionZ]

Windows 10 now contains a keylogger. I'm commenting on the problems posted in this forum. I don't use any of the services, so I don't have any direct experience.

What do you mean Windows 10 contains a keylogger? Are you talking about the automatically released data to Microsoft of your daily usage? You can stop that by tinkering with the settings and stopping some services from activating.

[ATguy]

One of problems in using Bitcoin mixers is 'dirty' coins from SilkRoad type websites. You put your coins in a mixer, you get back 'tainted' coins, who knows what kind of shady deals they had been used in before you got them.

Basically my thinking here, more often than not you might get some tainted coins when majority of users using mixing services using these to launder their tainted coins. To me 0,5% fee is too much to just keep privacy without the need to launder tainted coins.

Maybe some feature like coinjoin between many user wallets could help with Bitcoin privacy.

[Kprawn]

they are used to help anonymize the criminals, lol. in that case, they will be able to earn more money for the better service for those criminals. lmao.

That is nonsense.. I have never committed any crimes and I am using it. I even feel so strongly about it that I signed up for one of the biggest and reputable mixer's

signature campaigns. Your privacy is your business... If you use cash, you have the same anonymity as with the use of any mixer service.  If the authorities wants to

trace criminals, who use mixer service, they only need to follow the rules of the game and subpoena these services for the information.

[DimensionZ]

they are used to help anonymize the criminals, lol. in that case, they will be able to earn more money for the better service for those criminals. lmao.

That is nonsense.. I have never committed any crimes and I am using it. I even feel so strongly about it that I signed up for one of the biggest and reputable mixer's

signature campaigns. Your privacy is your business... If you use cash, you have the same anonymity as with the use of any mixer service.  If the authorities wants to

trace criminals, who use mixer service, they only need to follow the rules of the game and subpoena these services for the information.

I do agree that using a mixer increases your anonymity but what happens when you want to exchange some of your bitcoins into fiat? You need to provide your ID to the exchanges to get out your cash. It doesn't make sense to me to bother with mixers unless you send a fraction of your stash through a mixer to conceal your main wallet but this is a different story. I guess if it makes you happy and more secure online more power to you mate.

[seedtrue]

they are used to help anonymize the criminals, lol. in that case, they will be able to earn more money for the better service for those criminals. lmao.

That is nonsense.. I have never committed any crimes and I am using it. I even feel so strongly about it that I signed up for one of the biggest and reputable mixer's

signature campaigns. Your privacy is your business... If you use cash, you have the same anonymity as with the use of any mixer service.  If the authorities wants to

trace criminals, who use mixer service, they only need to follow the rules of the game and subpoena these services for the information.

I do agree that using a mixer increases your anonymity but what happens when you want to exchange some of your bitcoins into fiat? You need to provide your ID to the exchanges to get out your cash. It doesn't make sense to me to bother with mixers unless you send a fraction of your stash through a mixer to conceal your main wallet but this is a different story. I guess if it makes you happy and more secure online more power to you mate.

Or you could just sell your recently mixed coins locally for cash. You do not need to provide an ID for that.

[CryptoGore]

they are used to help anonymize the criminals, lol. in that case, they will be able to earn more money for the better service for those criminals. lmao.

That is nonsense.. I have never committed any crimes and I am using it. I even feel so strongly about it that I signed up for one of the biggest and reputable mixer's

signature campaigns. Your privacy is your business... If you use cash, you have the same anonymity as with the use of any mixer service.  If the authorities wants to

trace criminals, who use mixer service, they only need to follow the rules of the game and subpoena these services for the information.

I do agree that using a mixer increases your anonymity but what happens when you want to exchange some of your bitcoins into fiat? You need to provide your ID to the exchanges to get out your cash. It doesn't make sense to me to bother with mixers unless you send a fraction of your stash through a mixer to conceal your main wallet but this is a different story. I guess if it makes you happy and more secure online more power to you mate.

That is exact imho. If you want to keep your anonimity at top levels you never have to go off from the anonimity chain. If you interrupt this anon chain is like having done nothing before.

[Jet Cash]

What do you mean Windows 10 contains a keylogger? Are you talking about the automatically released data to Microsoft of your daily usage? You can stop that by tinkering with the settings and stopping some services from activating.

I managed to disable windows contana, but it isn't easy. That contains a key logger. I suspect that there are other routines as well that store all your files and traffic in a windows cloud.

[pereira4]

they are used to help anonymize the criminals, lol. in that case, they will be able to earn more money for the better service for those criminals. lmao.

That is nonsense.. I have never committed any crimes and I am using it. I even feel so strongly about it that I signed up for one of the biggest and reputable mixer's

signature campaigns. Your privacy is your business... If you use cash, you have the same anonymity as with the use of any mixer service.  If the authorities wants to

trace criminals, who use mixer service, they only need to follow the rules of the game and subpoena these services for the information.

I do agree that using a mixer increases your anonymity but what happens when you want to exchange some of your bitcoins into fiat? You need to provide your ID to the exchanges to get out your cash. It doesn't make sense to me to bother with mixers unless you send a fraction of your stash through a mixer to conceal your main wallet but this is a different story. I guess if it makes you happy and more secure online more power to you mate.

Or you could just sell your recently mixed coins locally for cash. You do not need to provide an ID for that.

Well more and more people are demanding more data about the people they sell coins to which is annoying. In any case, what are you going to do when the governments get rid of cash? We better have better alternatives than that, and we will since we will have CoinJoin more functional and Confidential Transactions.

[CryptoGore]

they are used to help anonymize the criminals, lol. in that case, they will be able to earn more money for the better service for those criminals. lmao.

That is nonsense.. I have never committed any crimes and I am using it. I even feel so strongly about it that I signed up for one of the biggest and reputable mixer's

signature campaigns. Your privacy is your business... If you use cash, you have the same anonymity as with the use of any mixer service.  If the authorities wants to

trace criminals, who use mixer service, they only need to follow the rules of the game and subpoena these services for the information.

I do agree that using a mixer increases your anonymity but what happens when you want to exchange some of your bitcoins into fiat? You need to provide your ID to the exchanges to get out your cash. It doesn't make sense to me to bother with mixers unless you send a fraction of your stash through a mixer to conceal your main wallet but this is a different story. I guess if it makes you happy and more secure online more power to you mate.

Or you could just sell your recently mixed coins locally for cash. You do not need to provide an ID for that.

In this event you would have to reveal your identity face to face with some FBI undercover .

[DimensionZ]

Selling to people on Localbitcoins is even more dangerous than providing your ID to somewhat 'legitimate' online exchanges in my honest opinion. You are letting random people see your face and possibly knowing the vicinity where you live. What about following you home and figuring out a way to kidnap or coerce you into giving them your big stash of coins? As the guy above me said when you go off the Internet your anonymity is gone immediately.

[spazzdla]

One of problems in using Bitcoin mixers is 'dirty' coins from SilkRoad type websites. You put your coins in a mixer, you get back 'tainted' coins, who knows what kind of shady deals they had been used in before you got them. Keylogger is not a problem, don't use Windows - problem solved.

A bitcoin is a bitcoin is a bitcoin. 

The idea of banning "shady" bitcoins is a GTFO of here.

[seedtrue]

Selling to people on Localbitcoins is even more dangerous than providing your ID to somewhat 'legitimate' online exchanges in my honest opinion. You are letting random people see your face and possibly knowing the vicinity where you live. What about following you home and figuring out a way to kidnap or coerce you into giving them your big stash of coins? As the guy above me said when you go off the Internet your anonymity is gone immediately.

I more meant locally to friends and family. But localbitcoins would work too.

If you don't want your face to be seen, wear a baseball hat and shades, or get extreme and use stage makeup or a mask. Follow you home? Just don't let anyone follow you home. If you are that worried about it just use public transportation and ride all over the city before being sure no one is following you and finally go home. All I'm saying is there are ways to sell your BTC without giving up your identity, even if you have to jump through hoops to do it.

[ahpku]

What do you mean Windows 10 contains a keylogger? Are you talking about the automatically released data to Microsoft of your daily usage? You can stop that by tinkering with the settings and stopping some services from activating.

I managed to disable windows contana, but it isn't easy. That contains a key logger. I suspect that there are other routines as well that store all your files and traffic in a windows cloud.

Protip: Worried about goobermint & MS spying on U?
Don't use Win10; boot from live *nix CD & use TOR.

[pereira4]

One of problems in using Bitcoin mixers is 'dirty' coins from SilkRoad type websites. You put your coins in a mixer, you get back 'tainted' coins, who knows what kind of shady deals they had been used in before you got them. Keylogger is not a problem, don't use Windows - problem solved.

A bitcoin is a bitcoin is a bitcoin. 

The idea of banning "shady" bitcoins is a GTFO of here.

Yeah but this will keep happening like it or not, as long as people can see transactions over the blockchain, that's why confidential transactions and "integrated coinjoin" in a way (I think BIP47 is somewhat related to this idea) would be mandatory if we want to end with that. All of the transactions should be confidential transaction ON and "coinjoined" with random people, unless you want to do a clear A to B transaction for some reason.

[Bitware]

You must assume that some mixers will inevitably be honey pots to steal bitcoins, reclaim stolen bitcoins, and seize or confiscate bitcoins.

[Yakamoto]

I don't think it draws attention to your transactions, especially because it's supposed to do the opposite... It's supposed to give you fresh coins in order to further enhance your privacy. It's also not designed or especially made for criminals, they just find it useful because of obvious reasons.

For the normal person it's a good tool to make your spending more private if you accidentally end up making your addresses known. Too bad many of these services turn out to be ran by scammers...

As for if they're worth using or not... Not really for me, but it has it's advantages.

Well it removes your address from the transaction, to an extent, but at the same time unless there is another $5 transaction occurring, it can be roughly interpolated that your transaction was intended to go to other address if there are not any other transactions that make it difficult to pinpoint the exact address the transaction was originally intended to got to.

tl;dr it doesn't draw unwanted attention but if someone is watching you, they might suspect you more.

[talkbitcoin]

if you are a criminal, you know what to do in order not to get caught like using linux instead of windows.
and for the rest of us we sometimes might want to stay a little bit anonymous while not doing anything illegal, so we don't care

[Kprawn]

You must assume that some mixers will inevitably be honey pots to steal bitcoins, reclaim stolen bitcoins, and seize or confiscate bitcoins.

Agreed, but what if the coins you are using or have in your possession are from criminal actions of which you had no part of. Someone just paid you for some service or products you sold over the

internet. Would it not be better to just mix them a little to reduce the risk that you could be drawn into something, when you are totally innocent. If these services were honey pots, they would not

be in operation for this long, because they would have built up a reputation. If they wanted to steal coins, they would need to wait for the big haul {Long Con} and then go out with a bang. 

[phishead]

One of problems in using Bitcoin mixers is 'dirty' coins from SilkRoad type websites. You put your coins in a mixer, you get back 'tainted' coins, who knows what kind of shady deals they had been used in before you got them. Keylogger is not a problem, don't use Windows - problem solved.

A bitcoin is a bitcoin is a bitcoin. 

The idea of banning "shady" bitcoins is a GTFO of here.

Well, it's just simply true... You can look at the blockchain explorer yourself and see that some bitcoin transactions or wallets with Bitcoins have a certain level of "taint" to the coins. Some are worse than others, depending on if they mixed it or not, or if it's been passed on so many times that it sort of reduces taint over time. That's one of the main problems of Bitcoin is that it doesn't have proper fungibility.

[ShrykeZ]

They just mix coins, sure they can be used for nefariously obtained coins but I assume the majority of transactions are just to reinforce anonymity.

[tobacco123]

I hope we are not helping money laundry here with these mixers. I don't use these services.

[owm123]

I hope we are not helping money laundry here with these mixers. I don't use these services.

That's exactly what it is. You put dirty bitcoin, hoping for getting less dirty.

[kanazawa]

Long life to Mixers. The key things is anonimyzing. There's nothin' to fear, nothin' to hide. Almost everyone link mixers to criminals... but f*** that, we just want anonimyzing. Who lives in some fu**ed country andd travels a lot, there's nothin' better than a mixer. Think about it.

[enhu]

If you intend to hide funds, you would rather use these services after all they are there to help.

Windows 10 now contains a keylogger. I'm commenting on the problems posted in this forum. I don't use any of the services, so I don't have any direct experience.

windows 10 contains keyloggers?
which program is it? I have windows 10 in my laptop just recently installed. and i also have multibit hd wallet there. thats the scary part.

[FlyingSaucer]

There is no keylogger in Windows 10 but Microsoft could data mine you if you don't disable some settings.

[Kakmakr]

they are used to help anonymize the criminals, lol. in that case, they will be able to earn more money for the better service for those criminals. lmao.

That is nonsense.. I have never committed any crimes and I am using it. I even feel so strongly about it that I signed up for one of the biggest and reputable mixer's

signature campaigns. Your privacy is your business... If you use cash, you have the same anonymity as with the use of any mixer service.  If the authorities wants to

trace criminals, who use mixer service, they only need to follow the rules of the game and subpoena these services for the information.

I do agree that using a mixer increases your anonymity but what happens when you want to exchange some of your bitcoins into fiat? You need to provide your ID to the exchanges to get out your cash. It doesn't make sense to me to bother with mixers unless you send a fraction of your stash through a mixer to conceal your main wallet but this is a different story. I guess if it makes you happy and more secure online more power to you mate.

I do not use exchanges to convert back to fiat. I sell to friends and family and people they know, who are into Bitcoin. So there is very little threat to me, to be kidnapped by them or having my identity exposed to unknown people. Keep it in the family, my friend. ^smile^

[enhu]

There is no keylogger in Windows 10 but Microsoft could data mine you if you don't disable some settings.

Which settings must I disable?
I'm not windows user so I never really know about such programs to disable on windows. but I know its not always safe using MS system. This laptop of mine isn't use regularly but every time I use it, it usually includes money transfer and moving my bitcoin to this multibithd.

[Jet Cash]

There's some stuff about Cortana, and how to turn it off here -

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2974057/windows/how-to-turn-off-windows-10s-keylogger-yes-it-still-has-one.html

[DimensionZ]

Well guys you are lucky to have friends and family members that are into Bitcoin. My only option is to use crypto exchanges but I am okay with giving my ID to different institutions online so no big deal for me. Too much hiding is not good either right? 

[kanazawa]

All I can say is (again), that mixers are the best things to keep government claw very faraway... I won't split my money with some sharks like government do... I'm poor, and my sweaty money is mine. The government can eat my nuts but I'll hide everything from this communists hands and I say f*** to the big eagle over the mountain who tells me what I have to say, what I have to write and where and how much I have to spend. What I win is mine. Love mixers and I'll use them until it exist.

[owm123]

All I can say is (again), that mixers are the best things to keep government claw very faraway... I won't split my money with some sharks like government do... I'm poor, and my sweaty money is mine. The government can eat my nuts but I'll hide everything from this communists hands and I say f*** to the big eagle over the mountain who tells me what I have to say, what I have to write and where and how much I have to spend. What I win is mine. Love mixers and I'll use them until it exist.

How can you be so sure that mixers dont log your transactions, and/or are law enforcment's honepots for ppl like you? Because they write on their website that they dont log anytihng?

[BitcoinSupremo]

If you are paranoid about you being anonymous you can boot from Tails Live CD it has a Bitcoin wallet client installed by default, use your seed to import your funds from your wallet (which you should have never use before if you want to stay anonymous)  in here and you can do pretty much untraceable transaction, now FBI and Sh*t NSA cannot track you. I am not an expert but I have learned this is a good way to bypass IP location in Bitcoin transactions.

[ctlaltdefeat]

Selling to people on Localbitcoins is even more dangerous than providing your ID to somewhat 'legitimate' online exchanges in my honest opinion. You are letting random people see your face and possibly knowing the vicinity where you live. What about following you home and figuring out a way to kidnap or coerce you into giving them your big stash of coins? As the guy above me said when you go off the Internet your anonymity is gone immediately.

Some people afraid to be scamming by exchange,online investement and other,but they maybe never think what you think above,and honestly i'm also never think like that,its good warning for us,transaction people to people give more dangerous that transaction with exchange or investement site,we can be make our life in danger if some people have bad purpose to you. thanks for remind me

[Jeremycoin]

Well guys you are lucky to have friends and family members that are into Bitcoin. My only option is to use crypto exchanges but I am okay with giving my ID to different institutions online so no big deal for me. Too much hiding is not good either right? 

But Bitcoin should be anonymous, if you do this then it means you don't know the point of Bitcoin.