Abortion

[420]

What's your stance on abortion

we'll stick to first two trimesters or more specifically; times when the baby is not viable outside the womb

Is abortion then immoral or not immoral?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

A member of my family had a couple abortions due to financial reasons at that particular time in her life.

Personally, I believe it's fine for rape and incest victims, as well as for those who know for certain the fetus will be deformed if born. Also, if the life of the mother is on the line late in the pregnancy, but sometimes the baby will be saved and sacrifice the mother, though rare.

On the whole, I'm against it, but like I've stated above, some instances make it set okay with me.

[Matthew N. Wright]

What's your stance on abortion

we'll stick to first two trimesters or more specifically; times when the baby is not viable outside the womb

Is abortion then immoral or not immortal?

I'd say it's neither immoral nor immortal.

In my experiences with a sister who had 3 miscarriages, a friend who's girlfriend has an abortion, and a mother who was told by the doctor that she could not conceive me in the first place, I have personally come to think that it's a personal choice, just as suicide is. If you knew for a fact that your baby would be an alien monster that would kill everyone in the world, you would more than likely not have an issue with aborting it. So the polar opposite would be this-- can you prove that your baby won't be a nightmare, douchebag, bottom rung of the ladder drudge on society who ends up growing up and raping women and killing others? If not, I say the decision to keep a baby is 100% dependent on the conditions and environment. If I were living in North Korea, I'd probably be inclined to abort. If I were stranded on Mount Everest and absolutely sure I would starve to death, I'd probably abort as well. If I were a wealthy person who could logically get away with not even raising my own kid due to the amount of helpers I had, then treating it like an "inconvenience" and aborting is pretty fucking immoral imho. Then again, morals have nothing to do with science. Why don't we just change our DNA to where we can choose to stop making babies and end this problem in the first place?

[Third Way]

A member of my family had a couple abortions due to financial reasons at that particular time in her life.

Personally, I believe it's fine for rape and incest victims, as well as for those who know for certain the fetus will be deformed if born. Also, if the life of the mother is on the line late in the pregnancy, but sometimes the baby will be saved and sacrifice the mother, though rare.

On the whole, I'm against it, but like I've stated above, some instances make it set okay with me.

No offense but wouldn't a pack of condoms or "the pill" contraceptives or even the plan B pill have been much cheaper thana couple abortions?



The way I see it I don't think there should be any reason why they should be outlawed or illegal, yes I think it's somewhat immoral to an extent but in the cases where it can save the mother, or the kid is a product of rape, or if the child would be born with way too many physical or mental complications I have no issue with it.


But these overpriviledged girls getting abortions because it's "my body" get me mad because they could put the children up for abortion or, as I said before, contraceptives and condoms are much, much cheaper.

[foggyb]

I voted for immoral. I believe abortion should not be a choice that one life makes to the detriment of another.
The article I am linking (by Eric Lloyd) shows conclusively that there is no dividing line between a human life and an unborn fetus.

SLED: The Case Against Abortion
http://standtherefore.com/blog/sled-the-case-against-abortion/

Preview:

The SLED Argument. SLED is an acronym that stands for:

Size
Level of Development
Environment
Degree of Dependency

These are the qualities that can be used to distinguish the born from the unborn. The unborn are small, not fully developed, in the womb, and wholly dependent on their mother. But do any of these qualities affect the value of the human fetus? I’ll analyze it one quality at a time.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I voted for immoral. I believe abortion should not be a choice that one life makes to the detriment of another.
The article I am linking (by Eric Lloyd) shows conclusively that there is no dividing line between a human life and an unborn fetus.

SLED: The Case Against Abortion
http://standtherefore.com/blog/sled-the-case-against-abortion/

Preview:

The SLED Argument. SLED is an acronym that stands for:

Size
Level of Development
Environment
Degree of Dependency

These are the qualities that can be used to distinguish the born from the unborn. The unborn are small, not fully developed, in the womb, and wholly dependent on their mother. But do any of these qualities affect the value of the human fetus? I’ll analyze it one quality at a time.

The concept of life having value is what brought on taxes and religious wars. The sooner we stop thinking we are valuable, the sooner we can succeed as a species to accomplish great things.

[foggyb]

The concept of life having value is what brought on taxes and religious wars. The sooner we stop thinking we are valuable, the sooner we can succeed as a species to accomplish great things.

The Nazi Party thought so too.

But that aside, society ceases to function if no life has value. I mean, we could let a lot of murderers out of prison and save a pile of money, if people didn't take human life so seriously. What about all those old-age pensioners? Are they next on the chopping block?

The Nazi's taught eugenics to children in school. Teachers made a mathematics and economics lesson out of disposing of handicapped people to save state resources.

Its an extremist concept I can't ever imagine embracing.

[420]

A member of my family had a couple abortions due to financial reasons at that particular time in her life.

Personally, I believe it's fine for rape and incest victims, as well as for those who know for certain the fetus will be deformed if born. Also, if the life of the mother is on the line late in the pregnancy, but sometimes the baby will be saved and sacrifice the mother, though rare.

On the whole, I'm against it, but like I've stated above, some instances make it set okay with me.

so you're a middle road; no strong principles in the abortion area

[420]

why does a rape baby have less rights than one otherwise?

How often do we punish kids for the actions of their parents?

[Matthew N. Wright]

The sooner we stop thinking we are valuable, the sooner we can succeed as a species to accomplish great things.

The Nazi Party thought so too.

The Nazi Party thought that life wasn't valuable, or the Nazi Party thought that anyone who wasn't one of them wasn't valuable? I think you're confusing the issue in an attempt to be dramatic.

The point still stands. When we stop pretending we are important, powerful, beautiful, original, unique, talented and valuable creatures, the sooner we can learn to share, build together and appreciate what is around us. How does this tie in with abortion? It actually goes both ways:

• A mother does not abort her child because she realizes that her own wants/needs are not important and that she needs to just take care of what is in front of her (in this case being a new child)
• A mother does not keep her child because she realizes that her own wants/needs will end up being the death of the child anyway.

The world is not so black and white. Whenever drugs, abortion, religion, and suicide are discussed on forums, people want to grab for the absolutes. Life just doesn't work that way, despite what we may want to believe to keep us warm at night in our own temporary existences.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

A member of my family had a couple abortions due to financial reasons at that particular time in her life.

Personally, I believe it's fine for rape and incest victims, as well as for those who know for certain the fetus will be deformed if born. Also, if the life of the mother is on the line late in the pregnancy, but sometimes the baby will be saved and sacrifice the mother, though rare.

On the whole, I'm against it, but like I've stated above, some instances make it set okay with me.

so you're a middle road; no strong principles in the abortion area

Basically, yes, though I lean toward it being immoral, but hold back judgement on those going the clothes hanger route.

I've viewed videos where it's shown done, and it's not a pretty site. The fetus is torn apart, and you can see life trying to save itself. And that's during the first trimester.

[Third Way]

why does a rape baby have less rights than one otherwise?

It's not a matter of less rights, it's an issue of the mother's trauma, some women are stronger than others, mentally, birthing the child putting it up for adoption, or outright raise them as their own. Some cannot, and raise the child, knowing every day the child was a product of an unwilling act. Mothers that raise these kids hate them as much as their 'attackers'.

How often do we punish kids for the actions of their parents?

Every day, if not the parents or the family, society.

[organofcorti]

Anyone going to mention the effect legalised abortion has on reducing crime? Oh wait, i just did.

[theymos]

I think that abortion is somewhat immoral, but in the same way that doing drugs might be considered immoral. It's a personal matter, and not anyone else's business.

This is one of the tricky issues that anarcho-capitalist polycentric legal systems are very good at dealing with.  There would be protection agencies that allow abortion and protection agencies that do not. Pro-abortion agencies would be more expensive. People who feel strongly that abortion should be illegal could effectively discourage abortion by spending money to make pro-abortion agencies even more expensive relative to anti-abortion agencies.

Personally, I believe it's fine for rape and incest victims, as well as for those who know for certain the fetus will be deformed if born. Also, if the life of the mother is on the line late in the pregnancy, but sometimes the baby will be saved and sacrifice the mother, though rare.

On the whole, I'm against it, but like I've stated above, some instances make it set okay with me.

This doesn't make sense. If the goal of banning abortion is to save lives, then why are some lives worth less than others?

[BR0KK]

If not for medical or other proven reasons it should be considered immoral - and a form of murder! (No I'm not coming from a religious point of view here!)

It's killing life.... Nothing more or less. If you do it to "get rid of an accident" because you did not care for protection while fucking around, then you should be prosecuted by law for murder; nothing less.  There is plenty stuff to present pregnancy, especially for woman (and a few for man).

With couples or married people it should need an agreement of both parents (man and woman) and an expert opinion.
No woman should have the right to decide that on her own! (I'm not talking about the other proven reasons here. If the child is not capable of live or the child was made by a crime, then after proven so <yes there are woman who lie about rape and NO we don't have a so called "rape culture" where every man has a "rape" switch built in.....!>, abortion could be an option)

Personal opinion: If you are offended by it you have my permission to cry your eyes out!
 

[Lethn]

I believe forcing your own morals on someone when it is their choice what to do with their body is immoral if we can even decently define 'morality' which I believe we can't, I'll give my opinion, but in the end as with anything it's up to the people involved to decide for themselves and they can't be forced, I do think abortion on an early basis at least is okay but again, it's up to the mother and this is all extremely personal. Not only that, it's women who are having the baby, so they're the ones who are going to have to go through the trauma of the birth why the hell should a board room of men ( *cough* American catholics *cough ) have any right to decide for women without even properly knowing the situation or even acknowledging the amount of emotional stress they be under? It's reminds me a bit of seeing silly comments by women as well thinking that men can't be raped by a woman while having absolutely no idea what having a penis is like.

I'm sure there will be people who will argue with me about this and I know not all religious people will be like what I describe but honestly, these people who tell us that abortion is 'immoral' are the same people who molest/rape children ( or cover it up ) and think beating them to 'discipline' them is okay so they can go fuck themselves, that goes for all conspiracies that seek to enforce their vision of morality on anyone.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

I think that abortion is somewhat immoral, but in the same way that doing drugs might be considered immoral. It's a personal matter, and not anyone else's business.

Sums it up!

Personally, I believe it's fine for rape and incest victims, as well as for those who know for certain the fetus will be deformed if born. Also, if the life of the mother is on the line late in the pregnancy, but sometimes the baby will be saved and sacrifice the mother, though rare.

On the whole, I'm against it, but like I've stated above, some instances make it set okay with me.

This doesn't make sense. If the goal of banning abortion is to save lives, then why are some lives worth less than others?

Well, there's a legal distinction between manslaughter and murder, and this is pretty similar.

[Luno]

Is suicide still a crime in the US?

[Matthew N. Wright]

Is suicide still a crime in the US?

Yep. I wonder what the sentence is for successfully committing suicide.

[organofcorti]

Is suicide still a crime in the US?

Yep. I wonder what the sentence is for successfully committing suicide.

I think capital punishment would be suitable for a sucessful suicide.