POLL - Which crypto do you feel is the biggest "scam"? - - REVISED 4 ACCURACY -

[toknormal]

What do you mean "Then came the fan and whoosh."?

LoL. It's a special kind of warped logic reserved for religious fanatics in troll threads.

i.e. this is not a scam...

I've lost so much money (or rather failed to collect on so many gains )in crypto and could have been a millionaire several times over in USD value (im sure the same can be said for most who have been on this board for a few years).

...but a 2-year old innovative project that held its value all that time for the singular reason that the project leader stuck to his post, continued innovating, working hard and problem solving while hundreds of others abandoned theirs....is.

You do the math  

[iCEBREAKER]

If you are really looking to find a scam, the elephant in the room is Dash.

The dev premined boatloads due to a 'mistake' and he didnt fix it because the community was cool with it

That seems totally legit.

I like how the Dash [ANN] thread's cult enforcers are so quick to attack anyone who fails to cheer loudly enough for their insta-mined, completely centralized scam coin and associated Masternode HYIP.

The way the DashHoles report and remove on-topic posts that aren't sufficiently positive really makes me believe they are a mature, stable community with nothing to hide.

[generalizethis]

If you are really looking to find a scam, the elephant in the room is Dash.

The dev premined boatloads due to a 'mistake' and he didnt fix it because the community was cool with it

That seems totally legit.

I like how the Dash [ANN] thread's cult enforcers are so quick to attack anyone who fails to cheer loudly enough for their insta-mined, completely centralized scam coin and associated Masternode HYIP.

The way the DashHoles report and remove on-topic posts that aren't sufficiently positive really makes me believe they are a mature, stable community with nothing to hide.

My favorite is when you bring up the instamine, "...But look at the innovation!!!"

You mean innovations like X11, which is flawed and Evan has yet to answer how he intends to fix it. Or innovations like darksend (admittedly second rate anonymity by Evan himself) with its 20+ hour mix times.

And don't forget instantx, which TPTB_need_war demolished so badly that Evan has yet to untuck his tail between his legs and comment on.

Hey dashtards, adding a dark to something doesn't make it anonymous anymore than adding x to something makes it innovative.

[toknormal]

Ok I think I'll leave you folks to your little hobby.

Have fun to yourselves  

[iCEBREAKER]

Ok I think I'll leave you folks to your little hobby.

Have fun to yourselves  

And right on cue, there's the Dash cult enforcer.

Notice how he just makes a cutesy minimizing deflection instead of attempting to justify or rationalize Dash's instamine, centralization, etc.

BTC core devs Peter Todd and gmaxwell are professional coders/cryptographers, so this isn't just some random dude and his "little hobby," as toknormal dishonestly implied.

http://pastebin.com/15dPiuue

Peter Todd calls DASH "snake oil" and bad crypto:
* snake oil: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/622022840330682368
* bad crypto: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/622081863008436225
 
gmaxwell calls DASH harmful garbage and dysfunctional software:
* https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1001642.msg10922949#msg10922949

[cryptohunter]

It would be interesting to know why on the 3rd place on the ballot Monero.
After all, it is not a clone of Bitcoin, the code base is completely different.
It is based on Cryptonote, I consider a great advantage among other coins.

All true.

I would say..

1. dash voting in spite.
2. some people don't like was not easy for all to mine at the start.

I don't think it's a scam but a few big miners took a lot of the coins through having more skills. Is fair . I guess it is to a degree but better initial distribution and opportunity for all is advisable if you don't want people to have things to gripe about at all. Also had a few issues with people in their community but this is not strictly related to the coin itself.

Over all = not a scam.

You do know that the miner released with Monero on launch was purposely and intentionally de-optimized right? If you purposely make a miner that is 100x slower than optimized for public release, (presumably so that the devs and insiders get a 100x advantage) is that not a scam?

I did not know that?  Never seen a thread on that. If true the dashers would have been all over it surely?
If true that is a big issue for monero. Where is the thread on that I must have missed it. How long was it like that and it is possible to see there were single miners going at 100x speeds?

im sure its written here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1151565.180  somewhere

btw, dasher are not bloodthirsty like moneroer

I'm sure if there was proof and any real fire with the smoke it would have combusted on the main forum? however things can smoulder away for a long time before actually moving to flames. It is the fanning that I believe makes the difference. Dash got away with it for ages. Then came the fan and whoosh. You can never get away with things forever. Best to build your house on good foundations out of stuff that can't be burneed. I bought some xmr and holding it. I kind of like smooth from what i read. However of course if proved a scam and collapsed I would accept and not fight against it with excuses as some do from other coins. If it's a scam then just get on with things as best you reasonably can if you entered after it happened and didnt know better - but never defend it nor endorse the scamming actions else you start a slippery slope.

What do you mean "Then came the fan and whoosh."? Dash has had a very consistent price with similar ups and downs to every other alt coins. If you overlay the DASH and XMR charts for the last year or so they look pretty much identical. There has been no "whoosh" unless you mean mean "whoosh, look at that consistent price and solid performance when compared to other successful cryptos.. whoosh".

As for the initial XMR mining scam, smooth will be here any minute to blame the original cryptonote/monero developers and/or perhaps claim it was an accident and that he never actually took part in the scam and that we should just trust his word that he knew nothing about it when monero was launched. Then in the next breath he will say that we can't trust Evan when he says initial DASH mining issues were an accident and that his accident is worse, so therefore we should ignore the XMR scam and focus on his biggest and most successful competitor, DASH.

The whoosh to which I refer is the nobody mentioning darkcoin or xcoins was a scam. To vast majority of the board suddenly noticing it was a scam. I have no doubt dash would have been way way ahead of where it is now if there was no scam at the start.

There is no point in excusing one scam for another (not that i say xmr is a scam i never looked into it.)

If you have concerns over another scam first don't let it be known before you start to scam bust in public you are involved with a different scam - even if you were not part of it at the start when the scam started.

[spatula]

The whoosh to which I refer is the nobody mentioning darkcoin or xcoins was a scam. To vast majority of the board suddenly noticing it was a scam. I have no doubt dash would have been way way ahead of where it is now if there was no scam at the start.

There is no point in excusing one scam for another (not that i say xmr is a scam i never looked into it.)

If you have concerns over another scam first don't let it be known before you start to scam bust in public you are involved with a different scam - even if you were not part of it at the start when the scam started.

Nobody mentioning darkcoin was a scam? Are you kidding? The Xcoin/darkcoin/dash thread has been non-stop bombarded with people yelling "instamine" and "scam" since day one.

When did I say I say I was excusing one scam for another? Or even try to "scam bust"? You said Monero wasn't a scam, and I replied about the fraudulent public miner promoted by the developers of monero.

Also, I was heavily invested in XMR at one time, and currently I have investments in DASH and quite a few other currencies. Main reason I don't have any XMR now is because how toxic their community is.

[BagHolder010]

Yet I never seen a developer like Evan and he's beautiful work; if any of these developers created one of he's creations like instant transactions or governence thingie or even that 2nd tier those haters would be all over it saying how awesome is their low skilled can't even make a GUI wallet working developer is. Keep dreaming of Dash going down it won't and stop hating on ETH because it's doing so well man these haters can't be happy with a 10% of a gambling site while doing nothing but spreading hate on forums and shut up  insetad creating those useless Polls with threads like "What do you think of DASH BLA BLA BLA"  Haters gonna hate.

If they hating on Evan and Dash then man it is doing an awesome job at pissing them off.

[klarki]

Thank you for the clarification.
And the truth is not considered Monroe from this side.
I will look for information.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Yet I never seen a developer like Evan and he's beautiful work; if any of these developers created one of he's creations like instant transactions or governence thingie or even that 2nd tier those haters would be all over it saying how awesome is their low skilled can't even make a GUI wallet working developer is. Keep dreaming of Dash going down it won't and stop hating on ETH because it's doing so well man these haters can't be happy with a 10% of a gambling site while doing nothing but spreading hate on forums and shut up  insetad creating those useless Polls with threads like "What do you think of DASH BLA BLA BLA"  Haters gonna hate.

If they hating on Evan and Dash then man it is doing an awesome job at pissing them off.

The jealousy is strong with these ones...

To anyone who believes the false narrative that Dash's governance is a dictatorship, let me tell you a story.

Evan submitted a proposal to hire Transform PR to represent us. It was approved, and after a month some community members started having second thoughts. There was a big discussion on DashTalk, resulting in the Transform PR Initiative being struck down, and Evan himself as the Dash representative had to embarrassingly cancel the contract he had signed.

Does that sound like a dictatorship to you? Amanda Johnson has Dash figured out just fine, my disillusioned friends.

[generalizethis]

Yet I never seen a developer like Evan and he's beautiful work; if any of these developers created one of he's creations like instant transactions or governence thingie or even that 2nd tier those haters would be all over it saying how awesome is their low skilled can't even make a GUI wallet working developer is. Keep dreaming of Dash going down it won't and stop hating on ETH because it's doing so well man these haters can't be happy with a 10% of a gambling site while doing nothing but spreading hate on forums and shut up   insetad creating those useless Polls with threads like "What do you think of DASH BLA BLA BLA"  Haters gonna hate.

If they hating on Evan and Dash then man it is doing an awesome job at pissing them off.

The jealousy is strong with these ones...

To anyone who believes the false narrative that Dash's governance is a dictatorship, let me tell you a story.

Evan submitted a proposal to hire Transform PR to represent us. It was approved, and after a month some community members started having second thoughts. There was a big discussion on DashTalk, resulting in the Transform PR Initiative being struck down, and Evan himself as the Dash representative had to embarrassingly cancel the contract he had signed.

Does that sound like a dictatorship to you? Amanda Johnson has Dash figured out just fine, my disillusioned friends.

This is my criticism (still waiting for someone from dash to explain this away).

Dash has some pretty horrendous flaws: namely X11 and Darksend.

X11: If one chain can be attacked then the whole thing is vulnerable--you essentially load a bunch of people on a bus and hope one doesn't have a virus. I've pointed this out to Evan, as have others, but he has yet to address it. He has stated incorrectly that you just roll the chain back and get rid of the broken one--this is patently false as the broken chain can exist for some time and go unnoticed and do so much damage in that time that no roll-back can save the coin--he's essentially saying, "We can just kick the sick person off the bus and that gets rid of the contagion," meanwhile everyone on the bus is already infected.

Darksend, besides its twenty hour mix times, is flawed because of centralization and the fact that TPTB can subpoena control (or use other methods such as coercion) to gain enough nodes to break anonymity. I would suggest that Evan owns enough to break most anonymity and a fincen investigation hanging over his head would be enough to coerce him into helping the US government break dash's weak anonymity--that is if dash ever gained enough market to garner governmental interest (and that's a huge if). Cryptosystems are meant to be anti-fragile, especially against governmental pressures, and this is why well-built cryptosystems avoid centralized solutions.

These two flaws lead me to believe Evan has a very weak understanding of cryptosystems (I have just a casual interest and I understand these things, so for a developer to not know them is pretty unforgivable).


Criticisms are either true, false, or opinions. It doesn't matter in what frame of mind they were made if they are correct. It is the liar, the fraud, the charlatan who wants to sidestep truth with accusations of motive when motive cannot determine if an argument is true or false, but only the attitude in which it was delivered. Scientist can hate, criticize and ridicule one another, but when day is done, only the facts are given weight. But then again, I'm just a hater, so nothing I say can have any weight or truth.  

[iCEBREAKER]

The Xcoin/darkcoin/dash thread has been non-stop bombarded with people yelling "instamine" and "scam" since day one.

Can confirm, the coin with the sneaky "accidental" instamine often has that issue come up.  Sorry, but you need to do more than just wish the instamine issue would go away when you Duff-splain how it was all just a crazy misunderstanding.

As for which is the biggest scam, its hard to beat a coin like Dash, that gets called out BY THEIR OWN CORE DEV for being a "fishy" way for greedoids to make a centralized gold-crapping donkey.

i left because i disagree darkcoin or however it will be called next year is not a decentralized entity. it never was but i ignored it as long as darkcoin was following the same path i was following.

this currency is lead by a single person. darkcoin is like an old conservative company with strong hierarchical comamnd structures and a single person on the top of the pyramid. evan duffield. the rebranding using a detergent name was just a step forward in creating something like apple or paypal.

fuck this i tell you. what we need is a trustless, decentralized and anonymous currency. darkcoin is not decentralized as it still relies on a single person. and this reaches deep into the code base.

the core devs were just a bunch of volunteers exploited for the big thing.

the extended darkcoin team was the same with even a lower place to sit on that pyramid. and what was the darkcoin foundation again? right, something to reserve some rights on some names and collect money. who nominated and voted for the foundation board? who does even know who are these guys? how did we learn about the foundation? from local news papers!

the team listings kept counting names of people nobody ever noticed before. and they never committed anything visible to the community or the repository. and i was spending 25 hours a day monitory everything that happened in the darkcoin community for more than a year.

the things going on here are fishy, intransparent and rely on a single entity.

i will get out and and will contribute to something decentralized and anonymous. i always hoped darkcoin could fill that void. i cant blame anyone to stay with this project. you are probably investors trying to win a gold donkey. or you are simply trying to exploit every possible vector of profit in the coins space. whatever. you are not here because darkcoin is something it claims to be.

if you disagree with my statement above, i dont care, but answer that simple question: what if evan duffield suddenly announces he quits the project tomorrow morning?

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Yet I never seen a developer like Evan and he's beautiful work; if any of these developers created one of he's creations like instant transactions or governence thingie or even that 2nd tier those haters would be all over it saying how awesome is their low skilled can't even make a GUI wallet working developer is. Keep dreaming of Dash going down it won't and stop hating on ETH because it's doing so well man these haters can't be happy with a 10% of a gambling site while doing nothing but spreading hate on forums and shut up   insetad creating those useless Polls with threads like "What do you think of DASH BLA BLA BLA"  Haters gonna hate.

If they hating on Evan and Dash then man it is doing an awesome job at pissing them off.

The jealousy is strong with these ones...

To anyone who believes the false narrative that Dash's governance is a dictatorship, let me tell you a story.

Evan submitted a proposal to hire Transform PR to represent us. It was approved, and after a month some community members started having second thoughts. There was a big discussion on DashTalk, resulting in the Transform PR Initiative being struck down, and Evan himself as the Dash representative had to embarrassingly cancel the contract he had signed.

Does that sound like a dictatorship to you? Amanda Johnson has Dash figured out just fine, my disillusioned friends.

This is my criticism (still waiting for someone from dash to explain this away).

Dash has some pretty horrendous flaws: namely X11 and Darksend.

X11: If one chain can be attacked then the whole thing is vulnerable--you essentially load a bunch of people on a bus and hope one doesn't have a virus. I've pointed this out to Evan, as have others, but he has yet to address it. He has stated incorrectly that you just roll the chain back and get rid of the broken one--this is patently false as the broken chain can exist for some time and go unnoticed and do so much damage in that time that no roll-back can save the coin--he's essentially saying, "We can just kick the sick person off the bus and that gets rid of the contagion," meanwhile everyone on the bus is already infected.

Darksend, besides its twenty hour mix times, is flawed because of centralization and the fact that TPTB can subpoena control (or use other methods such as coercion) to gain enough nodes to break anonymity. I would suggest that Evan owns enough to break most anonymity and a fincen investigation hanging over his head would be enough to coerce him into helping the US government break dash's weak anonymity--that is if dash ever gained enough market to garner governmental interest (and that's a huge if). Cryptosystems are meant to be anti-fragile, especially against governmental pressures, and this is why well-built cryptosystems avoid centralized solutions.

These two flaws lead me to believe Evan has a very weak understanding of cryptosystems (I have just a casual interest and I understand these things, so for a developer to not know them is pretty unforgivable).


Criticisms are either true, false, or opinions. It doesn't matter in what frame of mind they were made if they are correct. It is the liar, the fraud, the charlatan who wants to sidestep truth with accusations of motive when motive cannot determine if an argument is true or false, but only the attitude in which it was delivered. Scientist can hate, criticize and ridicule one another, but when day is done, only the facts are given weight. But then again, I'm just a hater, so nothing I say can have any weight or truth.  

Both of these issues are currently under review. The Dash software is currently in beta, no one is saying that it is a finished product. When Dash V1.0 is released, you can be sure that PrivacyProtect will be vetted and ready for prime time.

In regards to Masternodes, the scenario you describe is highly unlikely, as a far greater amount of Masternodes than would be needed to control anonymity reside outside of US control. We would simply move them to jurisdictions that are friendly to crypto.

[iCEBREAKER]

To anyone who believes the false narrative that Dash's governance is a dictatorship, let me tell you a story.

Evan submitted a proposal to hire Transform PR to represent us. It was approved, and after a month some community members started having second thoughts. There was a big discussion on DashTalk, resulting in the Transform PR Initiative being struck down, and Evan himself as the Dash representative had to embarrassingly cancel the contract he had signed.

Does that sound like a dictatorship to you? Amanda Johnson has Dash figured out just fine, my disillusioned friends.

That's a nice Duff-splanation, but wouldn't a core dev like vertoe know exactly how centralized and dictatorial Dash is?

I tend to believe a former Dash core dev like vertoe over a full-time apologist/internet marketing flunky like you or a random YouTube journalist.  Especially since Amanda is sponsored by Dash and thus has a massive conflict of interest in reporting the facts of the centralized, instamined Dash HYIP scam.

i left because i disagree darkcoin or however it will be called next year is not a decentralized entity. it never was but i ignored it as long as darkcoin was following the same path i was following. the path to total financial privacy. and thats why i am so upset about how this currency is lead by a single person. darkcoin is like an old conservative company with strong hierarchical comamnd structures and a single person on the top of the pyramid. evan duffield. the rebranding using a detergent name was just a step forward in creating something like apple or paypal. fuck this i tell you. what we need is a trustless, decentralized and anonymous currency.

darkcoin is not decentralized as it still relies on a single person. and this reaches deep into the code base.

the core devs were just a bunch of volunteers exploited for the big thing. the extended darkcoin team was the same with even a lower place to sit on that pyramid. and what was the darkcoin foundation again? right, something to reserve some rights on some names and collect money. who nominated and voted for the foundation board? who does even know who are these guys? how did we learn about the foundation? from local news papers! the team listings kept counting names of people nobody ever noticed before. and they never committed anything visible to the community or the repository. and i was spending 25 hours a day monitory everything that happened in the darkcoin community for more than a year. the things going on here are fishy, intransparent and rely on a single entity.

i will get out and and will contribute to something decentralized and anonymous. i always hoped darkcoin could fill that void. i cant blame anyone to stay with this project. you are probably investors trying to win a gold donkey. or you are simply trying to exploit every possible vector of profit in the coins space. whatever. you are not here because darkcoin is something it claims to be.

if you disagree with my statement above, i dont care, but answer that simple question: what if evan duffield suddenly announces he quits the project tomorrow morning?

[phibay]

It's pretty obvious that ETH and FCT are complete pump and dump scam coins. Look at the amount of trolls saying otherwise. Do your research before putting your money in these shitcoins!

[iCEBREAKER]

It's pretty obvious that DASH and MAID are complete pump and dump scam coins. Look at the amount of trolls saying otherwise. Do your research before putting your money in these shitcoins!

THERE I FIXED IT.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Same old song and dance. Your material is so old. As for Dash, the facts stand on their own, even with your constant negative spin. We're not going anywhere, no matter how many threads you hijack. And that kills you.

[iCEBREAKER]

To anyone who believes the false narrative that Dash's governance is a dictatorship, let me tell you a story.

Evan submitted a proposal to hire Transform PR to represent us. It was approved, and after a month some community members started having second thoughts. There was a big discussion on DashTalk, resulting in the Transform PR Initiative being struck down, and Evan himself as the Dash representative had to embarrassingly cancel the contract he had signed.

Does that sound like a dictatorship to you? Amanda Johnson has Dash figured out just fine, my disillusioned friends.

That's a nice Duff-splanation, but wouldn't a core dev like vertoe know exactly how centralized and dictatorial Dash is?

I tend to believe a former Dash core dev like vertoe over a full-time apologist/internet marketing flunky like you or a random YouTube journalist.  Especially since Amanda is sponsored by Dash and thus has a massive conflict of interest in reporting the facts of the centralized, instamined Dash HYIP scam.

i left because i disagree darkcoin or however it will be called next year is not a decentralized entity. it never was but i ignored it as long as darkcoin was following the same path i was following. the path to total financial privacy. and thats why i am so upset about how this currency is lead by a single person. darkcoin is like an old conservative company with strong hierarchical comamnd structures and a single person on the top of the pyramid. evan duffield. the rebranding using a detergent name was just a step forward in creating something like apple or paypal. fuck this i tell you. what we need is a trustless, decentralized and anonymous currency.

darkcoin is not decentralized as it still relies on a single person. and this reaches deep into the code base.

the core devs were just a bunch of volunteers exploited for the big thing. the extended darkcoin team was the same with even a lower place to sit on that pyramid. and what was the darkcoin foundation again? right, something to reserve some rights on some names and collect money. who nominated and voted for the foundation board? who does even know who are these guys? how did we learn about the foundation? from local news papers! the team listings kept counting names of people nobody ever noticed before. and they never committed anything visible to the community or the repository. and i was spending 25 hours a day monitory everything that happened in the darkcoin community for more than a year. the things going on here are fishy, intransparent and rely on a single entity.

i will get out and and will contribute to something decentralized and anonymous. i always hoped darkcoin could fill that void. i cant blame anyone to stay with this project. you are probably investors trying to win a gold donkey. or you are simply trying to exploit every possible vector of profit in the coins space. whatever. you are not here because darkcoin is something it claims to be.

if you disagree with my statement above, i dont care, but answer that simple question: what if evan duffield suddenly announces he quits the project tomorrow morning?

Same old song and dance. Your material is so old. As for Dash, the facts stand on their own, even with your constant negative spin. We're not going anywhere, no matter how many threads you hijack. And that kills you.

That's a nice Dufflection from the question at hand.

I repeat: wouldn't a core dev like vertoe know exactly how centralized and dictatorial Dash is, especially as opposed to a sponsored journalist?

You know the answer is yes, but can't admit it for lack of integrity and overwhelming financial conflict of interest.

[afbitcoins]

My vote went to Ripple for a crypto which tried desperately to look like it was Open Source and decentralised when in fact has a single global ledger and coins which were totally premined. The company was called OpenCoin back then. Also they tried to make it look like you could pass around any crypto without admiting what you really pass around is IOUs (or debt).

Dash was scammy right at the beginning but with all the redistribution since and all the innovation continuing to happen I don't see that as a problem. Dash is the only crypto I hold in my own wallets other than bitcoin right now.

Eth seems like a huge pump and dump but i'm not sure where scam accusation comes from

Monero is scammy like Dash but because of crippled miner released at the beginning.

[Bridgewater]

Question:    Which top 10 crypto do you feel is most likely to change its political policies in a way that affects a majority of its community members negatively.

Define "community members."  What constitutes a negative effect? Are "political policies" taken from the official mission statements of the coins' documents, or simply one's subjective impressions of what the leadership's undisclosed vision for the coin might be?

The original "biggest scam" question is more appropriate, given the rephrase is equally subjective and even more vague, IMO.