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Author Topic: Avalon is (unfortunately) a scam. Here is why.  (Read 37732 times)
cedivad
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January 29, 2013, 03:56:02 PM
 #1

I spent a lot of time during the last days (or weeks) on the forums considering a big investment on the Avalon ASIC. I tough that even if my english is far from perfect, i should have opened this thread explaining my reasons to people that didn't have the time to spend here as i did.

1) Jeff will not receive its order before the batch starts selling
If you pay 400$ to ship something (rumors are that the custom agent was corrupted to let the Avalon unit pass trough) you get a tracking number. God, i just spent 400$ to ship something, i need to know where it is in real time. I need to know when it will arrive. If the parcel was to arrive before the second batch, Avalon would know it and would be confident about it. They are instead suggesting you that hey, you might lose your place on the second batch if you wait for Jeff.

2) They need to order components before this weekend because they cleaned the market out of resistors and capacitors
Hell, yes. We need components! You know, this stuff is hard to find and it takes 4 week to have it. What kind of components? Sci-Fiction stuff? No, resistors. RESISTORS! Once that Avalon discovered the community is smart enough to realize that you can't run out of resistors in China, they changed the supposed-missing components to mosfets and "inductor". People that know their stuff better than i do thinks that the only pratical use for mosfets in the Avalon is to build a custom PSU. Something that doesn't make any sense. You have problems building the Avalon, you don't need to get things worse house-producing a PSU.
They could have said that they need to have some other chips from the FAB and that the fab will work during the CNY (i don't think that intel closes its productions line on their multi billion dollars fabs during the holidays). That would have made sense to me.

3) They will not publish a video of the Avalon mining before the batch starts selling
The original plan was to post it before the end of the 2012. No one saw it. It simply dosen't exist. There is no reasons not to show a little video of the Avalon mining if it does exist. This recalls me Tom when he didn't want to post pictures of the chips he should own.

4) They will not try to smash the network for a small period with their 100 ASIC to prove that they are out there
Just turn them on for 2 hours, we would notice. They didn't do this. They will not.

5)


Did they told you (chinese customers) the reason of the delay in shipping? It cannot be customs there.

No, I personally have heard no Chinese customers receiving their products. There was no explanation in this post.

I will change my idea if:
1) There is a video of the Avalon mining that convinces me and my standards
2) Jeff receives the Avalon at least 6 hours before the second batch, so that he has the time to show us something.

The BS about keeping the competition at the obscure of the fabulous progresses the Avalon team did in the dark field of the ASICs doesn't hold anymore.

I hope my thread to be appreciated. By no reasons i want to troll. I wanted to be a customer.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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January 29, 2013, 04:01:29 PM
 #2

Thanks for pointing these things out. I want to see the Avalon team's counter-argument for this.

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”  -- Mahatma Gandhi

Average time between signing on to bitcointalk: Two weeks. Please don't expect responses any faster than that!
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January 29, 2013, 04:03:52 PM
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I think they've made clear that their counter-argument is going to be coming in a box with fans and ASICs in it. I'm just getting the popcorn. Being at the cutting edge of mining is a high-risk venture.
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January 29, 2013, 04:08:55 PM
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Taking a risk to be at the cutting edge is not a problem. They're asking everyone to discount what they've said previously and suspend their own common sense...this is a problem. None of this passes the smell test, but I doubt they'll have much trouble finding 500 people to send them $1500.

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January 29, 2013, 04:19:09 PM
 #5

Well I don't know if it is a scam or not (and don't really care) but I am sure all ASIC and FPGA boards have a DC to DC PSU.

No not the 120VAC -> 12VDC ATX PSU but the board level PSU that converts that 12VDC supplied by the ATX power supply to xVDC used by the board level components.  Nothing in the computer world actually runs at 12V so the boards need to step down the voltage supplied by ATX PSU.  Unlike ATX AC->DC PSU there is no one size fits all because the amount of current, regulation, and voltage is going to vary from component to component.  Your motherboard (and video cards) have a DC to DC PSU for this exact reason.  
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January 29, 2013, 04:25:18 PM
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I can understand them not posting a tracking number.

For most carriers, the tracking number shows the destination of the shipment. Posting the tracking number would violate Jeff's privacy.
If anyone should post the tracking number, it's Jeff, but to be honest if I were in his position I would not post this number.

What I *MIGHT* do is make a post saying "I'm Jeff, I've received the tracking number and I'm tracking the package. It sure seems like SOMETHING is on its way to me."

However even doing this would involve himself in the politics/drama/furor on this forum about Avalon.
As if he doesn't have enough politicking with his role as dev and his appearances on vlogs to answer questions about Bitcoin...

One thing I *CAN* say about Avalon...
They have spent practically $0 on marketing, yet everyone in our community is talking about their product. That is extremely successful if you ask me.
They're using one of the best rules in advertising: less is more.

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cedivad
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January 29, 2013, 04:26:47 PM
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I can understand them not posting a tracking number.
I did not asked for this.
If they had a tracking number, they would know whatever or not Jeff will receive the stuff by the 31. They do not.

Well I don't know if it is a scam or not (and don't really care) but I am sure all ASIC and FPGA boards have custom PSU.
Ok, -1.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
Vicus
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January 29, 2013, 04:30:20 PM
 #8

Question to forum administration: maybe this is right moment to ask Avalon stuff to publish proof of Avalon ASIC existance or shut down any (possible) scam activity?
I will try to explain myself.
BitSyncom used this forum to advertise its product, got preorders on this forum, used forum to keep (or not) customers informed about order status... But more than one week after we didn't saw any evidence that product were shipped... even more: existed. All questions about promised(!!!)  source code of modified cgminer, iso with OS image for device, video proof, shipment choice form, tracking number for jgazik and more - all this were TOTALY IGNORED. Now Avalon is starting new thread with batch #2 announced and look what they promise: no proof, no moneyback. One thing they promise: dates dates dates.
So, all I said is lead us to one conclusion: POSSIBLE SCAM! (Personaly I don't want it to be scam, as I am first batch customer). And now is good time to take sme preventive actions against possible scam and minimise possible damage to your forum users? I don't think that administration of this forum want to be anyhow related to scam?
creativex
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January 29, 2013, 04:31:30 PM
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If anyone should post the tracking number, it's Jeff, but to be honest if I were in his position I would not post this number.

What I *MIGHT* do is make a post saying "I'm Jeff, I've received the tracking number and I'm tracking the package. It sure seems like SOMETHING is on its way to me."

Last I heard he(Jeff) had specifically said he had NOT received any tracking information, though Avalon claims to have spent $400 to get the package shipped. I'm having trouble reconciling these statements.

wormbog
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January 29, 2013, 04:33:37 PM
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All Avalon has shown is that they're doing a poor job with their PR. If they're selling their ASICs faster than they can (supposedly) make them, why should they care? Why waste time trying to get even more orders than they can handle?

I thought BFL was an obvious scam before they released their first products. It turned out they just did a terrible job of managing their public image, a problem they still have today. It sure didn't impact their sales though. When you've got a revolutionary product you can afford to ignore your detractors.
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January 29, 2013, 04:33:41 PM
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If anyone should post the tracking number, it's Jeff, but to be honest if I were in his position I would not post this number.

What I *MIGHT* do is make a post saying "I'm Jeff, I've received the tracking number and I'm tracking the package. It sure seems like SOMETHING is on its way to me."

Last I heard he(Jeff) had specifically said he had NOT received any tracking information, though Avalon claims to have spent $400 to get the package shipped. I'm having trouble reconciling these statements.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=541;sa=showPosts

Here's his latest posting, as of the 25th of January he had not received trakcing info.  He seems the type to me to at least tell us he did receive tracking info.  It would go a long way, I don't need to follow his package but him saying he at least received info would alleviate... something.  (still mgiht be a brick haha (or 4 looking at that case))
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January 29, 2013, 04:34:23 PM
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Question to forum administration: maybe this is right moment to ask Avalon stuff to publish proof of Avalon ASIC existance?
I will try to explain myself.
BitSyncom used this forum to advertise its product, got preorders on this forum, used forum to keep (or not) customers informed about order status... But more than one week after we didn't saw any evidence that product were shipped... even more: existed. All questions about promised(!!!)  source code of modified cgminer, iso with OS image for device, video proof, shipment choice form, tracking number for jgazik and more - all this were TOTALY IGNORED. Now Avalon is starting new thread with batch #2 announced and look what they promise: no proof, no moneyback. One thing they promise: dates dates dates.
So, all I said is lead us to one conclusion: POSSIBLE SCAM! (Personaly I don't want it to be scam, as I am first batch customer). And now is good time to take sme preventive actions against possible scam and minimise possible damage to your forum users? I don't think that administration of this forum want to be anyhow related to scam?

Actually, the correct time to take preventative measure is BEFORE you decide to send your BTCs somewhere.  It is not this forums responsibility to verify things you should have done already.

2112
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January 29, 2013, 04:35:05 PM
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People that know their stuff better than i do thinks that the only pratical use for mosfets in the Avalon is to build a custom PSU. Something that doesn't make any sense. You have problems building the Avalon, you don't need to get things worse house-producing a PSU.
It is "custom VRM" not "custom PSU". Technically it is almost the same thing, but PSU produces 12V,5V & 3.3V, and VRM further reduces it down to 1.somethingV. Nothing out of ordinary.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
DeathAndTaxes
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January 29, 2013, 04:35:52 PM
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Question to forum administration: maybe this is right moment to ask Avalon stuff to publish proof of Avalon ASIC existance or shut down any (possible) scam activity?
I will try to explain myself.
BitSyncom used this forum to advertise its product, got preorders on this forum, used forum to keep (or not) customers informed about order status... But more than one week after we didn't saw any evidence that product were shipped... even more: existed. All questions about promised(!!!)  source code of modified cgminer, iso with OS image for device, video proof, shipment choice form, tracking number for jgazik and more - all this were TOTALY IGNORED. Now Avalon is starting new thread with batch #2 announced and look what they promise: no proof, no moneyback. One thing they promise: dates dates dates.
So, all I said is lead us to one conclusion: POSSIBLE SCAM! (Personaly I don't want it to be scam, as I am first batch customer). And now is good time to take sme preventive actions against possible scam and minimise possible damage to your forum users? I don't think that administration of this forum want to be anyhow related to scam?

The same forum which allowed Pirate to run a painfully obvious ponzi scheme for months?

Good or bad the forum takes a hands of approach.  If you think it is a scam then don't buy one.  Pretty simple concept.  Personal responsibility and all that.  You are the keeper of your coins.  If you do something stupid then you may lose them and never get them back.  Of course if it is a scam I am sure many will ignore that chasing the promise of turning x BTC into 10x BTC by getting an ASIC first and in the process turn it into 0 BTC.  Note: I am not saying Avalon is or isn't a scam.  I don't really care, won't be buying one either way.
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January 29, 2013, 04:43:52 PM
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Actually, the correct time to take preventative measure is BEFORE you decide to send your BTCs somewhere.  It is not this forums responsibility to verify things you should have done already.
The same forum which allowed Pirate to run a painfully obvious ponzi scheme for months?

Good or bad the forum takes a hands of approach.  If you think it is a scam then don't buy one.  Pretty simple concept.  Personal responsibility and all that.  You are the keeper of your coins.  If you do something stupid then you may lose them and never get them back.
Where I said that I regret for being involved to possible scam? I'm have enough salary to make risky investments.
I heard something about Pirate, but don't know details. Maybe there was no man who point administration sight to scam?
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January 29, 2013, 04:50:22 PM
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I just started reading the other thread, and had to stop not even midway through the first post before commenting. Took my piss, got my coffee, got my smokes, now off to see if I can get through the rest of the first post without bursting a blood vessel.

Madness! (last couple seconds)
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January 29, 2013, 04:52:31 PM
 #17

No shipping/tracking information has been sent to me, privately or publicly, as of this writing.

No private communications since Jan 20.

Forum readers know as much as I know, at this point.

For the record, at this time, I do not think Avalon or BFL are scams.


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January 29, 2013, 04:54:36 PM
 #18

No shipping/tracking information has been sent to me, privately or publicly, as of this writing.

No private communications since Jan 20.

Forum readers know as much as I know, at this point.

For the record, at this time, I do not think Avalon or BFL are scams.



Thanks for the update Jeff!
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January 29, 2013, 04:58:39 PM
 #19

No shipping/tracking information has been sent to me, privately or publicly, as of this writing.

No private communications since Jan 20.

Forum readers know as much as I know, at this point.

For the record, at this time, I do not think Avalon or BFL are scams.

Have I been browsing the wrong forum or something?  Huh
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January 29, 2013, 05:03:46 PM
 #20

No shipping/tracking information has been sent to me, privately or publicly, as of this writing.

No private communications since Jan 20.

Forum readers know as much as I know, at this point.

For the record, at this time, I do not think Avalon or BFL are scams.

Have I been browsing the wrong forum of something?  Huh

I, too, trust Jeff, and was about to post the following via quoting the post above the one I did quote, for this one's better.

Just got to post #4 and opted to comment here than pollute the (insert adjective here) thread.

I would consider ordering some more if my current order was not still listed as "CANCELLED" after 3 weeks of contacting Avalon.  Even BFL is more responsive.

I thought when I responded in the Avalon Shipped thread it was pretty clear I can't change any of the stats until I get back into NYC? but all the issues checks out since there was data stored, but callbacks were never made.

His computer will only work in NYC? This blows my mind!
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