Avalon is (unfortunately) a scam. Here is why.

[bce]

I feel that there is only one reason Avalon would be taking pre-orders on batch #2 before test review units will be received by jgarzik and someone else at Bitcoin Foundation.  Batch #2 couldn't be delayed for a week after reviews of first Avalon units, because _______________ .

In a couple of days, some people will give Avalon BTC with No refunds, No proof  

How could this not be a scam?

[Fjordbit]

I agree that on the outside, there's no evidence for BFL and Avalon being scams. But BFL is taking orders with Paypal, which has fraud protection, and Avalon is not. I, personally, am not comfortable with this offering.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

[BitSyncom]

I spent a lot of time during the last days (or weeks) on the forums considering a big investment on the Avalon ASIC. I tough that even if my english is far from perfect, i should have opened this thread explaining my reasons to people that didn't have the time to spend here as i did.

1) Jeff will not receive its order before the batch starts selling
If you pay 400$ to ship something (rumors are that the custom agent was corrupted to let the Avalon unit pass trough) you get a tracking number. God, i just spent 400$ to ship something, i need to know where it is in real time. I need to know when it will arrive. If the parcel was to arrive before the second batch, Avalon would know it and would be confident about it. They are instead suggesting you that hey, you might lose your place on the second batch if you wait for Jeff.

2) They need to order components before this weekend because they cleaned the market out of resistors and capacitors
Hell, yes. We need components! You know, this stuff is hard to find and it takes 4 week to have it. What kind of components? Sci-Fiction stuff? No, resistors. RESISTORS! Once that Avalon discovered the community is smart enough to realize that you can't run out of resistors in China, they changed the supposed-missing components to mosfets and "inductor". People that know their stuff better than i do thinks that the only pratical use for mosfets in the Avalon is to build a custom PSU. Something that doesn't make any sense. You have problems building the Avalon, you don't need to get things worse house-producing a PSU.
They could have said that they need to have some other chips from the FAB and that the fab will work during the CNY (i don't think that intel closes its productions line on their multi billion dollars fabs during the holidays). That would have made sense to me.

3) They will not publish a video of the Avalon mining before the batch starts selling
The original plan was to post it before the end of the 2012. No one saw it. It simply dosen't exist. There is no reasons not to show a little video of the Avalon mining if it does exist. This recalls me Tom when he didn't want to post pictures of the chips he should own.

4) They will not try to smash the network for a small period with their 100 ASIC to prove that they are out there
Just turn them on for 2 hours, we would notice. They didn't do this. They will not.

5)

Did they told you (chinese customers) the reason of the delay in shipping? It cannot be customs there.

No, I personally have heard no Chinese customers receiving their products. There was no explanation in this post.

I will change my idea if:
1) There is a video of the Avalon mining that convinces me and my standards
2) Jeff receives the Avalon at least 6 hours before the second batch, so that he has the time to show us something.

The BS about keeping the competition at the obscure of the fabulous progresses the Avalon team did in the dark field of the ASICs doesn't hold anymore.

I hope my thread to be appreciated. By no reasons i want to troll. I wanted to be a customer.

1. Actually, chance of Jeff getting the unit on Thursday is pretty good, but of course there is a chance he won't like I mentioned. if you choose to read that has Jeff will not receive the unit that's not my problem.

2. It is what it is. there's a mountain of shit to order.

3. Let me explain something to you, and everyone else here, all of the evidence, short from a review from a trustworthy third-party can be faked. I rest easy thinking Jeff and Bitcoin Foundation is a good choice.

4. Let me quote Inaba here: "You are a fucking idiot."

The BS about keeping the competition at the obscure of the fabulous progresses the Avalon team did in the dark field of the ASICs doesn't hold anymore.

Why the fuck not? I think I should have taken orders like BFL, screwed people with their backorders, then I'll not run into any of the problem I currently run into order parts and shit. Now some how I'm the greedy one? Get real. In addition, We at Avalon still do not believe BFL will ship a working product during the next month, Feb, 2013, so we are being cautious. Or consider this, a real bigshot IC company comes out and produces a 40nm, or lower Bitcoin Mining ASIC, and everyone will be kind of screwed. small batches allow the network to scale properly and minimize risk for both parties, the seller and customer. Whatever though, at this point I don't expect anyone to understand.

But speaking of greed, Let me give you a dose of potential reality you should actually worry about instead of this bullshit. Let me tell you a story about greed, there's a follow situation as described on a Chinese forum which refreshed what I thought was the rock bottom for evilness in the human heart.

The person, described Avalon as a scam, but not in the traditional sense where we did not make a working product but rather. We would upon "smoking day" chip success, issue a complete refund and start mining ourselves telling everyone the chip failed, then proceed to mining bitcoins at a rate about $40,000 a day.

tl;dr; It is much easier for Avalon to scam people than you thought. Clearly you have been worrying about the wrong things. Don't order from us if our terms is not good enough for you. Please, save us both the trouble.

[mtminer]

I spent a lot of time during the last days (or weeks) on the forums considering a big investment on the Avalon ASIC. I tough that even if my english is far from perfect, i should have opened this thread explaining my reasons to people that didn't have the time to spend here as i did.

1) Jeff will not receive its order before the batch starts selling
If you pay 400$ to ship something (rumors are that the custom agent was corrupted to let the Avalon unit pass trough) you get a tracking number. God, i just spent 400$ to ship something, i need to know where it is in real time. I need to know when it will arrive. If the parcel was to arrive before the second batch, Avalon would know it and would be confident about it. They are instead suggesting you that hey, you might lose your place on the second batch if you wait for Jeff.

2) They need to order components before this weekend because they cleaned the market out of resistors and capacitors
Hell, yes. We need components! You know, this stuff is hard to find and it takes 4 week to have it. What kind of components? Sci-Fiction stuff? No, resistors. RESISTORS! Once that Avalon discovered the community is smart enough to realize that you can't run out of resistors in China, they changed the supposed-missing components to mosfets and "inductor". People that know their stuff better than i do thinks that the only pratical use for mosfets in the Avalon is to build a custom PSU. Something that doesn't make any sense. You have problems building the Avalon, you don't need to get things worse house-producing a PSU.
They could have said that they need to have some other chips from the FAB and that the fab will work during the CNY (i don't think that intel closes its productions line on their multi billion dollars fabs during the holidays). That would have made sense to me.

3) They will not publish a video of the Avalon mining before the batch starts selling
The original plan was to post it before the end of the 2012. No one saw it. It simply dosen't exist. There is no reasons not to show a little video of the Avalon mining if it does exist. This recalls me Tom when he didn't want to post pictures of the chips he should own.

4) They will not try to smash the network for a small period with their 100 ASIC to prove that they are out there
Just turn them on for 2 hours, we would notice. They didn't do this. They will not.

5)

Did they told you (chinese customers) the reason of the delay in shipping? It cannot be customs there.

No, I personally have heard no Chinese customers receiving their products. There was no explanation in this post.

I will change my idea if:
1) There is a video of the Avalon mining that convinces me and my standards
2) Jeff receives the Avalon at least 6 hours before the second batch, so that he has the time to show us something.

The BS about keeping the competition at the obscure of the fabulous progresses the Avalon team did in the dark field of the ASICs doesn't hold anymore.

I hope my thread to be appreciated. By no reasons i want to troll. I wanted to be a customer.

1. Actually, chance of Jeff getting the unit on Thursday is pretty good, but of course there is a chance he won't like I mentioned. if you choose to read that has Jeff will not receive the unit that's not my problem.

2. It is what it is. there's a mountain of shit to order.

3. Let me explain something to you, and everyone else here, all of the evidence, short from a review from a trustworthy third-party can be faked. I rest easy thinking Jeff and Bitcoin Foundation is a good choice.

4. Let me quote Inaba here: "You are a fucking idiot."

The BS about keeping the competition at the obscure of the fabulous progresses the Avalon team did in the dark field of the ASICs doesn't hold anymore.

Why the fuck not? I think I should have taken orders like BFL, screwed people with their backorders, then I'll not run into any of the problem I currently run into, and now some how I'm the greedy one? Get real. In addition, We at Avalon still do not BFL will ship a working product during the next month, Feb, 2013, so we are being cautious. Or consider this, a real bigshot IC company comes out and produces a 40nm, or lower Bitcoin Mining ASIC, and everyone will be kind of screwed. small batches allow the network to scale properly and minimize risk for both parties, the seller and customer. Whatever though, at this point I don't expect anyone to understand.

But speaking of greed, Let me give you a dose of potential reality you should actually worry about instead of this bullshit. Let me tell you a story about greed, there's a follow situation as described on a Chinese forum which refreshed what I thought was the rock bottom for evilness in the human heart.

The person, described Avalon as a scam, but not in the traditional sense where we did not make a working product but rather. We would upon "smoking day" chip success, issue a complete refund and start mining ourselves telling everyone the chip failed, then proceed to mining bitcoins at a rate about $40,000 a day.

tl;dr; It is much easier for Avalon to scam people than you thought. Clearly you have been worrying about the wrong things. Don't order from us if our terms is not good enough for you. Please, save us both the trouble.

Has advanced knowledge of forum formatting, yet simple cell phone camera use still escapes him.

[michaelmclees]

A review from Jeff could be faked too, so why bother with that, if your logic is sound?  When BFL wouldn't provide timely pictures and videos, it later became clear that they were failing to provide that stuff because they simply didn't have it.

Now you're failing to provide that kind of stuff, only under the excuse that you could have faked it.  Sure, but we know that.  We know that a video of the machine isn't 100% proof, but that isn't what people are asking for.  They're asking for whatever assurance they feel pictures and videos would provide.

[Tinua]

................ We at Avalon still do not believe BFL will ship a working product during the next month, Feb, 2013, so we are being cautious. Or consider this, a real bigshot IC company comes out and produces a 40nm, or lower Bitcoin Mining ASIC, and everyone will be kind of screwed. small batches allow the network to scale properly and minimize risk for both parties, the seller and customer. Whatever though, at this point I don't expect anyone to understand.........

Who cares when BFL shipped?
What interests me alone is, when you sent my boxes
What is a smaller batch good for, if you bring not even the few boxes out of the country?
What good is it, if BFL shipp not bevor March, when our Boxes not shipped before CNY?
You wrote in big letters and counters "we Shipped"! We have not done! And what happen?.... "we shipp 2 Boxes" Great! Applause!
Why do you not publish the order number of the shipped boxes daily, so all the buyers know what going on?

This kind of questions have to be answered from you! Not all the other meaningless BS!

[PuertoLibre]

You want to tell them to piss off, don't you?  The hate is swelling in you now.  Take your keyboard weapon.  Use it.  They are unarmed.  Strike them down with it.  Give in to your anger.  With each passing moment, you make yourself more like me...

Indeed.

I suggest BitSyncom you turn away from becoming an Inaba. I understand that customer service is like washing a backed up toilet. (only worse since you have to deal with talking turds)

Just give the facts and hide the anger as it looks bad and puts you on par with Inaba. Let your success do the talking and walking for you.

[creativex]

Amazing how shipping deadlines of their own making seem to bring out the true colors of these vaporware vendors. Hey thanks at least for dropping the phony professionalism BitSyncom.

[BitSyncom]

Amazing how shipping deadlines of their own making seem to bring out the true colors of these vaporware vendors. Hey thanks at least for dropping the phony professionalism BitSyncom.

I'm just a human being.

p.s.

Since people are suggesting I get removed for potential scam, can I report people for slander also?

[creativex]

Amazing how shipping deadlines of their own making seem to bring out the true colors of these vaporware vendors. Hey thanks at least for dropping the phony professionalism BitSyncom.

I'm just a human being.

THEN USE YOUR OPPOSABLE THUMBS TO SEND AT LEAST JEFF A TRACKING NUMBER.

If you do this, Jeff will almost surely confirm and 90% of this will go away.

[PuertoLibre]

Amazing how shipping deadlines of their own making seem to bring out the true colors of these vaporware vendors. Hey thanks at least for dropping the phony professionalism BitSyncom.

I'm just a human being.

p.s.

Since people are suggesting I get removed for potential scam, can I report people for slander also?

By all means, fire away. Make sure to hit Inaba for once! (Half joking...no, wait, I am serious.)

[beekeeper]

You want to tell them to piss off, don't you?  The hate is swelling in you now.  Take your keyboard weapon.  Use it.  They are unarmed.  Strike them down with it.  Give in to your anger.  With each passing moment, you make yourself more like me...

Indeed.

I suggest BitSyncom you turn away from becoming an Inaba. I understand that customer service is like washing a backed up toilet. (only worse since you have to deal with talking turds)

Just give the facts and hide the anger as it looks bad and puts you on par with Inaba. Let your success do the talking and walking for you.

Its a joke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFvAeSJgjc

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Amazing how shipping deadlines of their own making seem to bring out the true colors of these vaporware vendors. Hey thanks at least for dropping the phony professionalism BitSyncom.

I'm just a human being.

p.s.

Since people are suggesting I get removed for potential scam, can I report people for slander also?

Its libel: Libel is defined as defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.

[Korbman]

3. Let me explain something to you, and everyone else here, all of the evidence, short from a review from a trustworthy third-party can be faked. I rest easy thinking Jeff and Bitcoin Foundation is a good choice.

The only thing I don't understand is why you've only "shipped" 2 units. This has come around a number of times already..1 to Jeff, and 1 to the Foundation. What about the other 298? Why not just update some of the preorders with tracking numbers if they shipped? If everything has gone as planned, then there shouldn't have been just two units leaving your facility to begin with...it should have been dozens, all with tracking numbers. Nobody would give two fucks if they had a tracking number and found out their order was stuck in customs...

Believe it or not, that little bit of information would have negated the need for multiple threads calling you a scammer...Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[dooferorg]

Amazing how shipping deadlines of their own making seem to bring out the true colors of these vaporware vendors. Hey thanks at least for dropping the phony professionalism BitSyncom.

I'm just a human being.

THEN USE YOUR OPPOSABLE THUMBS TO SEND AT LEAST JEFF A TRACKING NUMBER.

If you do this, Jeff will almost surely confirm and 90% of this will go away.

Next excuse up from Avalon/BitSyncom 'Hmm.. must have been lost in the mail .. Sorry about that'

[Beepbop]

Who cares when BFL shipped?
What interests me alone is, when you sent my boxes

I won't speak to the rest, but this actually makes sense to me: If they release details about what exact components they're missing and post detailed photos of the boards they might risk
- A competitor cutting down the time to shipping, thus depriving Avalon's own customers of some days of profitable mining.
- A competitor, or antoher enterprising saboteur with deep pockets could vacuum the market for the exact components that Avalon need.

The first isn't much of an issue by this point, I think - BFL seem to far along in their development to do a redesign - but based on what we know about the most unscrupulous competitors, or even some groups of miners, I wouldn't put it past them to try to slow down Avalon's batch 2 by increasing demand for components. I think that would be an effort in vain - I don't think any mining groups have that much money - but stranger things have happened in Bitcoin.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

I'm going to push the envelop here.

In my mind, all the evidence to date points to Avalon not delivery as promised. Therefore, I openly invite Team Avalon to sue me. Simply have your lawyer contact me (PM/email). I will then provide them my real name, address, etc., so that they can properly serve me papers.

To make the libel suit official--Avalon is a scam!

If I don't hear from their lawyer within 24 hours, then what I stated above is indeed fact.

By 3:00 CST tomorrow, I will report back here to state that either I have been contacted by their lawyers, or no-joy. If I'm not contacted, then the age-old adage "buyer beware" is in force, and anybody purchasing Batch #2 are ____________ (refrained from completely the sentence, though the last word can easily be surmised).

~Bruno K~

PS: Somebody quote me. I am not drunk and this account has not been hacked, which can be verified by the admins of this forum if proof is needed.

[creativex]

I'm going to push the envelop here.

In my mind, all the evidence to date points to Avalon not delivery as promised. Therefore, I openly invite Team Avalon to sue me. Simply have your lawyer contact me (PM/email). I will then provide them my real name, address, etc., so that they can properly serve me papers.

To make the libel suit official--Avalon is a scam!

If I don't hear from their lawyer within 24 hours, then what I stated above is indeed fact.

By 3:00 CST tomorrow, I will report back here to state that either I have been contacted by their lawyers, or no-joy. If I'm not contacted, then the age-old adage "buyer beware" is in force, and anybody purchasing Batch #2 are ____________ (refrained from completely the sentence, though the last word can easily be surmised).

~Bruno K~

PS: Somebody quote me. I am not drunk and this account has not been hacked, which can be verified by the admins of this forum if proof is needed.

Drunken haxxor.

[cedivad]

In china they don't sue you.
They simply send someone to visit you. They are more practical.