750ml Colloidal Silver - $29

[iCEBREAKER]

Please elaborate on exactly what "extraordinary claims" I've made, and I'll be glad to back them up.  

your claims goes against the following:

according to your logic: since soap kills bacteria and viruses, you should drink soap to kill bacteria in your body. similar logic can be applied to any number of toxic substances.

in addition, all of silver's proven use in medication involves topical application, and no ingestion.

and guess what? snake oil was also widely used in the 19th and 20th century.

Please respond to the question where I asked you to enumerate the "extraordinary claims" I've made.

I maintain that I have made no such claims.  Please elaborate, or stop asserting that I have made any.  You are rebutting arguments I've never made.

Why do you keep babbling about "snake oil?"  Are you not capable of specifically discussing colloidal silver, the actual product at hand?

You have presented no evidence that "snake oil" was used for any of the well known purposes that silver served.

Did Hippocrates discuss snake oil in his writings?  NO.  Silver?  YES.

Did surgeons routinely use snake oil sutures to reduce infection?  NO.  Silver?  YES.

Did physicians use snake oil eyedrops to treat ophthalmic problems?  NO.  Silver?  YES.

Did many peoples, from Romans to American pioneers, use snake oil to keep water and milk fresh?  NO.  Silver?  YES.

I never advocated drinking soap.  Soap has an adverse reaction in the body at high concentrations and does nothing at 10 PPM.  Unlike silver:

The oligodynamic effect (Greek: oligos = few, Greek: dynamis = force) was discovered in 1893 by the Swiss Karl Wilhelm von Nägeli as a toxic effect of metal ions on living cells, algae, molds, spores, fungi, viruses, prokaryotic and eukaryotic microorganisms, even in relatively low concentrations

Take your irrelevant straw men about "snake oil" and "soap" and go away until you are capable of discussing scientific matters without appeals to emotion.

[1714101920]

1714101920

[iCEBREAKER]

Neither silver nor DNA are magnetic, and even if they were the "magnetic binding" would undo itself once the virus particle got away from the silver particle. Secondly, human DNA and viral DNA are in most senses the same, so anything that would affect the viral DNA would probably also affect your DNA - although to be fair, human cells are much larger than viruses so because of the distance the magnetic effect on the viral DNA would probably be larger than on the human DNA, but the problem with that reasoning is that it presumes that such an effect exists in the first place.

Now, if you wish to claim an oligodynamic effect you should know that viruses are relatively insensitive to such effects, because they have very little in the way of enzymes. Virus particles are pretty much boxes of blueprints that are delivered to the host cells, and then the host cells manufacture enzymes and whatever else they need according to the specifications.

What a stunning display of ignorance!  

Silver isn't magnetic?  Don't have even the faintest clue about what ions are, do you?

You also obviously don't know the difference between diamagnetism and ferromagnetism.

You should go on tour with the Insane Clown Posse.  They don't understand magnetism either!  

"anything that would affect the viral DNA would probably also affect your DNA"

Now ^this^ takes the prize for abject stupidity.

Acél was perhaps the first to observe that the oligodynamic action of silver was due to liberated
Ag+ as opposed to metallic (neutral) Ag.  Eichorn has emphasized that the charge significantly
facilitates electron displacement.  The oligodynamic metal charge effectively yanks electrons away from
another molecule (such as a bacterial membrane), in essence weakening the molecular bond and
rendering it susceptible to cleavage.  Goetz emphasized that, “the ionized state of silver is of
fundamental importance for an oligodynamic effect; at the same time, the experimental evidence seems
to indicate definitely that Ag, once bound to organocolloids (i.e., mild silver protein), almost completely
loses its ionized state.”  As Goetz’s knowledge evolved in realizations of the finer points of silver
oligodynamics, he eventually and correctly concluded that silver is microcidal only if it is in the ionic
state, as was more recently established by the work of Rochart and Uzdins who observed cells
selectively bond only with silver ions.

Silver can serve as a disinfectant at concentrations about 1,000 times lower than the toxic level to mammalian life (Warrington 1996).

Magnetic Disruption of Viral DNA

A virus is constructed of a capsid that contains incomplete segments of DNA and RNA. These DNA segments carry a slight magnetic charge. There is a claw on the outside of the virus that attaches the virus to a healthy cell. Once the virus is attached to a healthy cell it can”inject” the incomplete DNA into the healthy cell, producing damage to the normal DNA and causing it to reproduce abnormally. This can cause viral diseases like influenza, hepatitis, and cervical cancer.

The new supercharged silver acts like a magnet that attracts the charged DNA particles. The DNA binds so tightly to the silver that it makes a chaotic tangle of incomplete genetic material that can never lengthen out, so it can never go through replication. This inactivates the virus and prevents replication of viral disease. Normal cells have thicker, more protected cell membranes with a balanced charge, which protects them from the silver’s magnetic attraction.

Please don't quit your day job to teach molecular and cell biology, chemistry, or physics.  

That picture you said is "bullshit?"  It's smarter than you, King Dumbass.  

[usagi]

The properties of colloidal silver are well known. No point arguing with science. Although some people have been known to argue with a brick wall.

Some people are allergic to silver as some people are allergic to copper, etc. please check with your doctor before taking colloidal silver.

It's worth noting more people are allergic to asprin than are allergic to colloidal silver.

[str4wm4n]

So hows about selling me a bottle for 1 btc? 

[iCEBREAKER]

So hows about selling me a bottle for 1 btc? 

Sure, bidding here starts at 29.00 USD (= 0.967 BTC) including shipping and escrow:

https://www.bitmit.net/en/item/14827-colloidal-silver-750ml?ref=2987

[grue]

Please respond to the question where I asked you to enumerate the "extraordinary claims" I've made.

I did. Your claims are extraordinary because they go against current medical knowledge. I have provided papers proving silver has no effect. You have not presented any empirical evidence, besides inferences based on old knowledge.

You have presented no evidence that "snake oil" was used for any of the well known purposes that silver served.

Did surgeons routinely use snake oil sutures to reduce infection?  NO.  Silver?  YES.

Did many peoples, from Romans to American pioneers, use snake oil to keep water and milk fresh?  NO.  Silver?  YES.

note how all of those applications are outside the body, or at the most, topical.

The oligodynamic effect (Greek: oligos = few, Greek: dynamis = force) was discovered in 1893 by the Swiss Karl Wilhelm von Nägeli as a toxic effect of metal ions on living cells, algae, molds, spores, fungi, viruses, prokaryotic and eukaryotic microorganisms, even in relatively low concentrations

hey guess what? your body is made of living cells.

Did Hippocrates discuss snake oil in his writings?  NO.  Silver?  YES.

so he discussed silver in his writings. besides the fact you're appealing to tradition (lead was pretty good for pipes at those times), it still doesn't justify the fact that there is no evidence to support colloidal silver. also, keep in mind the modern scientific method was invented in the 18th and 19th century.

[iCEBREAKER]

Your claims are extraordinary because they go against current medical knowledge. I have provided papers proving silver has no effect. You have not presented any empirical evidence, besides inferences based on old knowledge.

The oligodynamic effect (Greek: oligos = few, Greek: dynamis = force) was discovered in 1893 by the Swiss Karl Wilhelm von Nägeli as a toxic effect of metal ions on living cells, algae, molds, spores, fungi, viruses, prokaryotic and eukaryotic microorganisms, even in relatively low concentrations

hey guess what? your body is made of living cells.

No shit, Dick Tracy.  Assuming you know the difference between microorganisms and mammals, you really shouldn't go through life blissfully ignorant of the fact that:

Silver can serve as a disinfectant at concentrations about 1,000 times lower than the toxic level to mammalian life (Warrington 1996).

I'd be happy to substantiate any "extraordinary claims" I've made, but am having trouble finding any.   

   How many "extraordinary claims" have I made?  One, two, three, twelve, forty-two?

   Where did I make these "extraordinary claims?"  In this thread?  In which post(s)?

   If you don't know how to use the quote feature, just cut and paste them in quote marks and I'll figure out the context.

I can't believe you are still contesting the antimicrobial efficacy of silver.  It's not a debate you can win.  In fact, you're going get your ass kicked!   

Silver in Healthcare: Its Antimicrobial Efficacy and Safety in Use
Royal Society of Chemistry, May 27, 2010
http://books.google.com/books?id=QxtLm7MgQhYC&lpg

^^^Is this enough empirical evidence, or shall I continue to educate you on the subject as you move the goalposts ever farther down the field?   

[grue]

I never denied the medicinal properties of silver. I do agree, that like copper, silver inhibits the growth of bacteria on its surface. However, this does not imply that ingestion of elemental silver particles will lead to better health.

Silver in Healthcare: Its Antimicrobial Efficacy and Safety in Use
Royal Society of Chemistry, May 27, 2010
http://books.google.com/books?id=QxtLm7MgQhYC&lpg
https://i.imgur.com/A6WRR1a.png[

^^^Is this enough empirical evidence, or shall I continue to educate you on the subject as you move the goalposts ever farther down the field?   

• silver nitrate is not bioequivalent to elemental silver
• your own quoted material states that the improvement was not due to silver nitrate per se
• your own quoted material only stated silver was effective in topical applications, not ingestion

[iCEBREAKER]

I never denied the medicinal properties of silver. I do agree, that like copper, silver inhibits the growth of bacteria on its surface. However, this does not imply that ingestion of elemental silver particles will lead to better health.

• silver nitrate is not bioequivalent to elemental silver
• your own quoted material states that the improvement was not due to silver nitrate per se
• your own quoted material only stated silver was effective in topical applications, not ingestion

I'm quite sure that, while vaginal douches and oral rinses are arguably topical (or at least not ingestion per se), the pills used for treatment of gastrointestinal complaints and peptic ulcers were indisputably ingested.  

Maybe you have some special way of taking pills not involving ingestion (anally perhaps?).  

(Remarkably, it wasn't until decades later that the link between ulcers and viruses/bacteria was established.)

Of course you never denied the medicinal properties of silver.  That would be stupid*.

*Quibbling about nitrate vs colloid is even more stupid because colloids have been demonstrated to be superior.

Good catch on recognizing the key metric of surface area.  Now think about how much surface area particles in a colloid have.  Hint: it's a lot!

If you don't see the implication, that's fine.  But please recognize that many other people, including experts with credentials vastly superior to your own, do.

In fact, in the early 1900’s Alfred Searle, founder of the global Searle Pharmaceutical Company, had already discovered that silver in its liquid colloidal form could kill even the most deadly of pathogens. In his book Colloids in Biology and Medicine, 1919, Searle wrote:

    “Applying colloidal silver to human subjects has been done in a large number of cases with astonishingly successful results...it has the advantage of being rapidly fatal to microbes without toxic action on its host. It is quite stable. It protects rabbits from ten times the lethal dose of tetanus or diphtheria toxin.”

Likewise, this Czech study published in the prestigious Journal of Physical Chemistry B in 2006, also demonstrated that colloidal silver was a highly effective agent against MRSA:

 “…silver particles with a narrow size distribution with an average size of 25 nm, which showed high antimicrobial and bactericidal activity against Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, including highly multi-resistant strains such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA). The study further demonstrated that very low concentrations of silver could be utilized to destroy MRSA, as long as the silver particles were very small, averaging 25 nm.”

[iCEBREAKER]

Hey iCEBREAKER,

You should make a video of yourself doing the milk test with your colloidal silver that would be really interesting.

You take 2 glasses of milk, put a tablespoon of colloidal silver in one, and nothing in the other, and leave them out of the fridge.

one goes bad quick and the other doesn't. guess which one doesn't

search "colloidal silver milk test" on youtube!

It would be much better to have an unbiased, independent reviewer perform the experiment.

If anyone wants to do this "milk test" I'll sell you a bottle for half price (that's less than the cost of shipping).

[grue]

It would be much better to have an unbiased, independent reviewer perform the experiment.

If anyone wants to do this "milk test" I'll sell you a bottle for half price (that's less than the cost of shipping).

If i fill a bottle of milk with rubbing alcohol, and it doesn't go bad, does that mean i should drink rubbing alcohol? all it proves is that it kills bacteria. a lot of things kill bacteria, doesn't mean it's good for you

I never denied the medicinal properties of silver. I do agree, that like copper, silver inhibits the growth of bacteria on its surface. However, this does not imply that ingestion of elemental silver particles will lead to better health.

• silver nitrate is not bioequivalent to elemental silver
• your own quoted material states that the improvement was not due to silver nitrate per se
• your own quoted material only stated silver was effective in topical applications, not ingestion

I'm quite sure that, while vaginal douches and oral rinses are arguably topical (or at least not ingestion per se), the pills used for treatment of gastrointestinal complaints and peptic ulcers were indisputably ingested. 

Maybe you have some special way of taking pills not involving ingestion (anally perhaps?).   

(Remarkably, it wasn't until decades later that the link between ulcers and viruses/bacteria was established.)

Of course you never denied the medicinal properties of silver.  That would be stupid*.

*Quibbling about nitrate vs colloid is even more stupid because colloids have been demonstrated to be superior.

Good catch on recognizing the key metric of surface area.  Now think about how much surface area particles in a colloid have.  Hint: it's a lot!

If you don't see the implication, that's fine.  But please recognize that many other people, including experts with credentials vastly superior to your own, do.

In fact, in the early 1900’s Alfred Searle, founder of the global Searle Pharmaceutical Company, had already discovered that silver in its liquid colloidal form could kill even the most deadly of pathogens. In his book Colloids in Biology and Medicine, 1919, Searle wrote:

    “Applying colloidal silver to human subjects has been done in a large number of cases with astonishingly successful results...it has the advantage of being rapidly fatal to microbes without toxic action on its host. It is quite stable. It protects rabbits from ten times the lethal dose of tetanus or diphtheria toxin.”

Likewise, this Czech study published in the prestigious Journal of Physical Chemistry B in 2006, also demonstrated that colloidal silver was a highly effective agent against MRSA:

 “…silver particles with a narrow size distribution with an average size of 25 nm, which showed high antimicrobial and bactericidal activity against Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, including highly multi-resistant strains such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA). The study further demonstrated that very low concentrations of silver could be utilized to destroy MRSA, as long as the silver particles were very small, averaging 25 nm.”

I like how all those studies are done in early 20th century. also, your MRSA example is flawed because it never stated the method of consumption. a quick search on wikipedia reveals that MRSA occurs on the skin, which further suggests that all known applications of colloidal server is for topical use.

[TECSHARE]

It would be much better to have an unbiased, independent reviewer perform the experiment.

If anyone wants to do this "milk test" I'll sell you a bottle for half price (that's less than the cost of shipping).

If i fill a bottle of milk with rubbing alcohol, and it doesn't go bad, does that mean i should drink rubbing alcohol? all it proves is that it kills bacteria. a lot of things kill bacteria, doesn't mean it's good for you

I never denied the medicinal properties of silver. I do agree, that like copper, silver inhibits the growth of bacteria on its surface. However, this does not imply that ingestion of elemental silver particles will lead to better health.

• silver nitrate is not bioequivalent to elemental silver
• your own quoted material states that the improvement was not due to silver nitrate per se
• your own quoted material only stated silver was effective in topical applications, not ingestion

I'm quite sure that, while vaginal douches and oral rinses are arguably topical (or at least not ingestion per se), the pills used for treatment of gastrointestinal complaints and peptic ulcers were indisputably ingested. 

Maybe you have some special way of taking pills not involving ingestion (anally perhaps?).   

(Remarkably, it wasn't until decades later that the link between ulcers and viruses/bacteria was established.)

Of course you never denied the medicinal properties of silver.  That would be stupid*.

*Quibbling about nitrate vs colloid is even more stupid because colloids have been demonstrated to be superior.

Good catch on recognizing the key metric of surface area.  Now think about how much surface area particles in a colloid have.  Hint: it's a lot!

If you don't see the implication, that's fine.  But please recognize that many other people, including experts with credentials vastly superior to your own, do.

In fact, in the early 1900’s Alfred Searle, founder of the global Searle Pharmaceutical Company, had already discovered that silver in its liquid colloidal form could kill even the most deadly of pathogens. In his book Colloids in Biology and Medicine, 1919, Searle wrote:

    “Applying colloidal silver to human subjects has been done in a large number of cases with astonishingly successful results...it has the advantage of being rapidly fatal to microbes without toxic action on its host. It is quite stable. It protects rabbits from ten times the lethal dose of tetanus or diphtheria toxin.”

Likewise, this Czech study published in the prestigious Journal of Physical Chemistry B in 2006, also demonstrated that colloidal silver was a highly effective agent against MRSA:

 “…silver particles with a narrow size distribution with an average size of 25 nm, which showed high antimicrobial and bactericidal activity against Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, including highly multi-resistant strains such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA). The study further demonstrated that very low concentrations of silver could be utilized to destroy MRSA, as long as the silver particles were very small, averaging 25 nm.”

I like how all those studies are done in early 20th century. also, your MRSA example is flawed because it never stated the method of consumption. a quick search on wikipedia reveals that MRSA occurs on the skin, which further suggests that all known applications of colloidal server is for topical use.

You really got backed into a corner here with your marketplace ad trolling didn't you Grue? Seems as if you have been forced to concede quite a few points here and are resorting to semantic distinctions to argue your points. I know you like to think of yourself as doing something for the Bitcoin community, like you are protecting it from bad things but you are not. You are just looking for excuses to play expert and troll, you have been doing it pretty much unbroken here for years. It is pretty transparent and sad.

As far as colloidal silver goes, does anyone think the pharmaceutical industries who do most of the research papers or fund them would cover colloidal silver, a product which is non-patentable and practically free to anyone who knows how to make it, to be covered without bias? If colloidal silver was on shelves in stores everywhere they would lose BILLIONS in medication sales as well as other medical consumables and treatments. They would make every effort to create a negative image around colloidal silver, up and to including releasing fraudulent or misleading research. People are still pulling out their blue man fear mongering decades later, even when it is well known that only happens if you create it incorrectly AND use it in EXTREME EXCESS. Its just sad how many people claim to be experts on topics without even learning a damned thing for themselves.

[iCEBREAKER]

Taken internally, colloidal silver can be used to fight infection. It has been shown to be effective against more that 650 disease-causing organisms, including Escherichia coli (E. coli) bacteria and the fungus Candida albicans"

Prescription for Nutritional Healing (2010) Dr. James Balch

Grue fancies himself a Rational Skeptic Supreme, but sadly has fallen into the extremist clutches of the Anti-Woo Jihahist mindset. 

They become what they hate, IE nutjobs, through the wonders of convergent morphology.   

It's not entirely his fault, Dawkins and company have been diligently spreading the virulent Fundamentalist Atheist meme for some time.  Grue's merely parroting their spiel.


I'd like Grue to stop making a fool of himself and admit that

1.  the 2006 Czech study was not done in the "early 20th century"   

2.  scientific studies done in the early 20th century do not become invalid or outdated until contrary evidence emerges

3.  consuming 10 parts per million silver in distilled water is in no way comparable to drinking rubbing alcohol, nor does it have a chance in hell of turning anybody blue

4.  silver pills used for treatment of gastrointestinal complaints and peptic ulcers were indisputably ingested, not applied topically

5.  recent revelations about the role pathogens play in ulcer formation explains why those pills were so effective

6.  protection from "ten times the lethal dose of tetanus or diphtheria toxin" are obviously internal (again NOT TOPICAL) applications

7.  changing the subject from colloidal silver to smurfs, snake oil, rubbing alcohol, or soap is a dishonest appeal to emotion and not a rational argument (red herring)

[DobZombie]

Soap has an adverse reaction in the body at high concentrations and does nothing at 10 PPM.  Unlike silver:

Yeah, silver will do this eventually at any dose....

[TECSHARE]

Soap has an adverse reaction in the body at high concentrations and does nothing at 10 PPM.  Unlike silver:

Yeah, silver will do this eventually at any dose....

Did you even bother to read how he got that way? He went thru GALLONS of the stuff per month using internally and on his skin. ADDITIONALLY he produced it with TAP WATER and IMPURE STERLING SILVER which both create SILVER SALTS NOT COLLOIDAL SILVER. You can't claim colloidal silver will turn you blue when this man was not using colloidal silver.

[DobZombie]

You can't claim colloidal silver will turn you blue when this man was not using colloidal silver.

Just like you can't claim colloidal silver will kill viruses in the body?

See what I did there?

[TECSHARE]

You can't claim colloidal silver will turn you blue when this man was not using colloidal silver.

Just like you can't claim colloidal silver will kill viruses in the body?

See what I did there?

Where did I say that? Regardless there certainly is NO STUDIES supporting colloidal silver is antiviral. Not one....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3199605/
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/222102689_Antiviral_activity_of_silver_nanoparticles_synthesized_by_fungal_strain_Aspergillus_niger
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18505176?dopt=AbstractPlus
http://www.jnanobiotechnology.com/content/3/1/6

(that was like 30 seconds of googling)

[ny2cafuse]

Colloidal silver is used widely in the marijuana growing community.  Colloidal silver is used to produce pollen sacs on a female plant that will carry female chromosomes, not male.  So they then pollinate the plants with the female chromosome pollen and produce feminized seeds.

Colloidal silver is very easy to make.  Sure, you can have different types with all different types of purity.  But when it boils down to it, you could do it yourself with a silver coin, a glass of water, and a 9V battery. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=60610&highlight=colloidal+silver

[DobZombie]

Where did I say that?

I never said you did. I just say you can't.

I'm going by the picture at the start of the thread

[grue]

Taken internally, colloidal silver can be used to fight infection. It has been shown to be effective against more that 650 disease-causing organisms, including Escherichia coli (E. coli) bacteria and the fungus Candida albicans"

Prescription for Nutritional Healing (2010) Dr. James Balch

Grue fancies himself a Rational Skeptic Supreme, but sadly has fallen into the extremist clutches of the Anti-Woo Jihahist mindset. 

They become what they hate, IE nutjobs, through the wonders of convergent morphology.   

It's not entirely his fault, Dawkins and company have been diligently spreading the virulent Fundamentalist Atheist meme for some time.  Grue's merely parroting their spiel.


I'd like Grue to stop making a fool of himself and admit that

1.  the 2006 Czech study was not done in the "early 20th century"   

2.  scientific studies done in the early 20th century do not become invalid or outdated until contrary evidence emerges

3.  consuming 10 parts per million silver in distilled water is in no way comparable to drinking rubbing alcohol, nor does it have a chance in hell of turning anybody blue

4.  silver pills used for treatment of gastrointestinal complaints and peptic ulcers were indisputably ingested, not applied topically

5.  recent revelations about the role pathogens play in ulcer formation explains why those pills were so effective

6.  protection from "ten times the lethal dose of tetanus or diphtheria toxin" are obviously internal (again NOT TOPICAL) applications

7.  changing the subject from colloidal silver to smurfs, snake oil, rubbing alcohol, or soap is a dishonest appeal to emotion and not a rational argument (red herring)

1. my reference about your studies' age was for your first 2 claims.

2. your 20th century stuides HAVE been invalidated by modern studies (see my previous posts)

3. that was directed at your flawed experiment. proposal

4, 5. can I see RCT for that?

6. pretty sure you get tetanus externally (cut with rusty nail)
.
7. I never made a claim about smurfs, that was someone else. I also don't see how any of those arguments were an emotional appeal. Your logic of "it kills bacteria so it must be good in ingest it" was simply flawed, and I was trying to prove you wrong by contradiction.