750ml Colloidal Silver - $29

[Gabi]

This thread=bullshit

[Sukrim]

Well, some food (for example fish) contains ~10 ppm silver as well - you could just eat a piece of Sushi to ingest exactly the same amount of Ag.

Also calling it some ceremonial item or other bullsh*tting around does not change the claim that's made just a few lines later in that picture: That Ag ions and colloidal Ag (which are measured both by some calibrated instrument...?!) magically magnetically are attracting virii.
Probably one really has to do some ceremony before that for it to occur...

Also why does it cost ~0.6 BTC to produce 750ml of something that contains about as much silver as sea water? Who actually produces that stuff? My suspicion is that this is done (under maybe questionable hygienic conditions - "It is self sterilizing anyways!!!") via some homebrew method by the OP him-/herself.

[TECSHARE]

Well, some food (for example fish) contains ~10 ppm silver as well - you could just eat a piece of Sushi to ingest exactly the same amount of Ag.

Also calling it some ceremonial item or other bullsh*tting around does not change the claim that's made just a few lines later in that picture: That Ag ions and colloidal Ag (which are measured both by some calibrated instrument...?!) magically magnetically are attracting virii.
Probably one really has to do some ceremony before that for it to occur...

Also why does it cost ~0.6 BTC to produce 750ml of something that contains about as much silver as sea water? Who actually produces that stuff? My suspicion is that this is done (under maybe questionable hygienic conditions - "It is self sterilizing anyways!!!") via some homebrew method by the OP him-/herself.

I don't know if you have any idea what fish costs here away from the coasts, but the bottle of colloidal silver is cheaper, especially considering that it is not intended for nutritional use but intended as a direct application to the problem area (ie skin, mouth, sinus, stomach). It works because it is charged and concentrated. This is not the case with the silver in fish.

As far as being for ceremonial use, I can't speak for the seller, but I do believe he is relegated to this form of sale because of fine fascist folks such as yourself that are threatened by the free market, and force him to seek this legal protection for fear of persecution. Persecution not from harm he has done mind you, but persecution for daring to challenge FDA policy (NOT LAW!). If it is such a horrible dangerous product with no efficacy, then why is it constantly still being sold after decades of claims by wannabe experts, control freaks, and shills with an ever increasing market share?

People WANT this product, if they didn't no one would sell it. The only reason it costs so much is because he is taking a risk that a fine obsessive individual like yourself might call the gestapo to kick in his door over a medical treatment EVERYONE should have access to if they want. As far as the conditions it was created under, people sell home made food here ALL THE TIME. They aren't following FDA policy either. Do you go into each of their threads posting about how you find the conditions in which they were created to be objectionable when you have no knowledge of it in the first place? It seems to me you speak a lot about things you have no knowledge of. It is much easier than thinking or learning for yourself.

[grue]

If it is such a horrible dangerous product with no efficacy, then why is it constantly still being sold after decades of claims by wannabe experts, control freaks, and shills with an ever increasing market share?

argumentum ad populum

[TECSHARE]

If it is such a horrible dangerous product with no efficacy, then why is it constantly still being sold after decades of claims by wannabe experts, control freaks, and shills with an ever increasing market share?

argumentum ad populum

Actually no, because I am not arguing it is good because it is popular, I am arguing that it would not be so popular if it  was as dangerous as all you wannabe experts claim it is. If it was dangerous less people would use it and usage would dwindle to nothing, not grow as people discovered its potential or lack thereof. I think you need to go back to debate class.

Exercise for the class:
Find me a single instance of some one who harmed themselves using properly made colloidal silver* in moderation. If this stuff is as dangerous as you claim it is then this shouldn't be difficult. Good luck.

*(only distilled water and .9999 purity silver used)

[Sukrim]

There is a nice saying in my country:
"Billions of flies can't be wrong - eat more shit!"

I'm not claiming that something that contains less silver than sea water or a lot of the food I eat daily is dangerous.
I am however claiming the following (and the burden of proof is upon the OP as the producer, not me as a potential consumer):
* The liquid being sold is being produced in an potentially unhygienic environment with potentially contaminated ingredients.
* The liquid being sold does NOT contain 10 ppm Ag particles. It also does not contain the amount of silver ppm that the "hana" (actually it's "Hanna instruments") meter reports, if the OP even posesses such a device...

In regards to "it's a free market and the people WANT to buy it" - people like you are the exact reason why free markets can and will never work.

Oh, and while ingesting 10 ppm silver in distilled water in moderation might not have adverse effects (just like homeopathics), there are no positive effects beyond placebo either. The harm would probably rather come from neglecting proper treatments (e.g. consuming colloidal silver instead of taking antibiotics) rather than the substance itself.

[iCEBREAKER]

Dear Suckrim,

Thank you for your intense fixation on Sacred Silver, the first colloidal silver produced exclusively for the Bitcoin community.

This product is produced using a commercially available CS generator with a sterling reputation, many satisfied customers, and years of success in its market.

Please take the time and make the effort to understand the oligodynamic effect (which educated people realize has nothing to do with homeopathy) explained here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oligodynamic_effect


Gaining knowledge of this important phenomenon will help you see why your previous catty/snotty/ignorant/disgusting remark about flies eating shit has zero applicability to the OP.

Every environment is "potentially unhygenic" but we all understand your desire is not to engage in an intellectually honest, productive discussion, but rather to thread crap and declare victory. 

Every ingredient is likewise "potentially contaminated" but we all understand your desire is not to engage in an intellectually honest, productive discussion, but rather to thread crap and declare victory.

Demanding I prove these two negatives (a logical impossibility) offers you a cheap but cheesy means, which you are not above utilizing, to accomplish that shameful goal.

I appreciate your one valid contribution to this thread, pointing out "Hanna" is misspelled in the OP (which I've corrected).

If I were to post pictures of the Hanna Instruments TDS meter being calibrated and displaying the stated 10PPM, to where would you then move your hateful, nitpicking goalposts of FUD?   


Your ad hominem attack on Tecshare, blaming him for being the reason "why free markets can and will never work" makes no sense at all (and is overwrought drama-queen hysteria).

Free markets can always and will always work, unless distorted by regulatory interference and statist coercion to an extent inducing artificial shortages.

Colloidal silver is effective against many pathogens, but unfortunately cannot cure you of being a screeching banshee lacking even rudimentary scientific or logical ability.

[Sukrim]

If you care to read your quoted article, it is about metal ions, not metal colloids... Also you can read the linked article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_uses_of_silver
Yes, your solution (especially if made through electrolysis) is likely containing ions - and I'm very interested how your water resistance meter actually measures anything beyond ions (e.g. silver nanoparticles)

By the way TECSHARE already tried to sell overpriced water for Bitcoin some time ago, so no, you're not the first one to do so.

Please post the exact type of the Hanna TDS meter, the certificate for your calibration solution, a video of calibration + measurement of actual solution without cuts, the exact type/brand of water you use (and certificates of these) as well as the silver. Also of interest might be the conditions under which this solution is produced - how do you keep your bottles sterile for example, how do you ensure the claims in your OP concerning the special circumstances under which this stuff is being produced (what are "no other" sources of electricity for example and how do you guarantee to have 0 electric fields during the preparation)?

Also you seem to like to insert empty lines.

This

is

a

bit

annoying

to

read

for

me.

[johnniewalker]

just curious...what does this stuff taste like?

[iCEBREAKER]

just curious...what does this stuff taste like?

10PPM (barely over the taste threshold) is too low a concentration to make much difference. 

A fresh batch tastes like distilled water.

After a few weeks it has a very slight metallic flavor that many people won't even notice.

[iCEBREAKER]

Dear Suckrim,

Thank you for your continued fixation on Sacred Silver, the first colloidal silver produced exclusively for the Bitcoin community.

I'm pleased to help alleviate the unnecessary fear, uncertainty, and doubt you have been experiencing with regard to this product.

Sacred Silver's quality control is done using a temperature-compensating Hanna Instruments TDS meter calibrated with Hanna's own calibration fluid.

For more details (which you will undoubtedly gainsay, nitpick, and otherwise accuse of misrepresentation and/or insufficiency) see the manufacture's product page here:

http://www.hannainst.com/usa/prods2.cfm?id=003003&ProdCode=Primo

While not ideal or extremely precise, such instruments have been used with success for many years, despite their shortcomings versus costly testing in specialized laboratories.

TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids. This meter is often used by the water industry to measure the level of minerals in water, however it gives a relatively accurate reading of colloidal silver ppm. The only way to obtain a true parts per million (ppm) measurement of a collodial silver sample is to send it out to a lab equipped to analyse the CS. That can be time consuming and very expensive. Most producers of CS are now rating their ppm with a TDS meter and adding the nomenclature "TDS" after the ppm number. For example, 10 ppm TDS, means 10 ppm as measured with a TDS meter.  For our purposes, it's more than accurate enough. It takes all the guess work out of trying to figure how concentrated your CS solution is.

Every point in the universe has electrical fields present.  To minimize the impact of these fields, Sacred Silver is made after midnight, in a professionally cleaned spare room with no other electronic equipment present.

As to the claim that the oligodynamic effect only applies to ions, please be more thorough in your reading and comprehension before making such wildly inaccurate, easily prevented/corrected claims, which can be refuted merely by posting the part of the article you ignored.

Silver nanoparticles, obtained by irradiating a silver nitrate solution with an electron beam, are effective bactericides, destroying gram-negative species immune to conventional antibacterial agents.[6]

[6]http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100524101339.htm
May 25, 2010 — Writing in the International Journal of Nanoparticles, Rani Pattabi and colleagues at Mangalore University, explain how blasting silver nitrate solution with an electron beam can generate nanoparticles that are more effective at killing all kinds of bacteria, including gram-negative species that are not harmed by conventional antibacterial agents.

I'm sorry the common practice of using double-spacing for enhanced legibility has such a outsized negative effect on you.  Perhaps you should see an eye doctor, or consult a structural engineer who can help you build a bridge and get over it.   

[grue]

so it comes down to:
are there any randomized controlled studies that show ingestion of colloidal silver solution at concentration of 10 ppm ± 5 (very generous range) can treat/diagnose/prevent any disease? if so, is it better than placebo/control, and is it comparable to existing treatments?

A fresh batch tastes like distilled water.

After a few weeks it has a very slight metallic flavor that many people won't even notice.

well that's weird.

[mufa23]

Hate to say it, but the majority of my family members have a history of working in the medical profession (both USA and Germany), and they've time and time again told me how awesome Colloidal Silver is. I used to gargle it all the time growing up whenever I got a sore throat. These days it's considered more of an herbal remedy / homeopathic medicine kind of thing. But it does work, just not nearly as well as it's advertised. I wouldn't call it a placebo effect either. Perhaps something more in the middle ground. The stuff isn't all that special. It does help, just not very much. And I was laughing pretty hard when I saw the magnetic DNA bullshit in the first post. iCEBREAKER does have some truth to what he's saying. I could inquire with my family if you guys are actually interested.

tl;dr
The stuff works, but not very well. Antibiotics are still the go-to treatment.

EDIT: Oh, and the midnight moonlight stuff is obviously a load of crap

[iCEBREAKER]

Why is it weird for water with a tiny trace of metal to have a slight metallic taste?

That seems like an obvious consequence, and normal for anyone with a discerning palate.

Also, space weather does actually make a large difference on the color/production of metal colloids.

Solar events have a strong influence in terms of slowing the process of making a colloid, primarily because it causes increased oxidation, which occurs especially when the sun is sending lots of high energy phenomena our way.

I know, I know.  The whole 'electric universe' thesis is crazy talk.  Whoever heard of so-called 'solar wind' or 'belts' of so-called 'plasma' surrounding so-called 'planets?'   

As if so-called 'silver' would ever interact with so-called 'electromagnetic radiation' in any meaningful way whatsoever!  What's next, some kind of crazy device that uses 'photosensitive' silver film to capture images, in some sort of unheard-of contraption called a 'photograph?"   

Move the goalposts as far down field as necessary to protect your narrow, fragile, FDA statist thug-approved view of the world.  The fact remains that

Albert Searle, who founded the drug company that later evolved into Merck, performed a great deal of research on colloidal silver and its benefits against infection. As Warren Jefferson notes in the book Colloidal Silver Today, Searle wrote that colloidal silver has “…the advantage of being rapidly fatal to the parasites—both bacterial and otherwise— without any toxic action on the host.” Searle also believed it was useful for tonsillitis, conjunctivitis, impetigo, leg ulcerations, eczema, dysentery and boils.

No one is quite sure how silver kills pathogenic bacteria. It is possible that it inhibits the enzymes microbes depend on for survival. Some researchers believe that microbes naturally attract particles suspended in the colloidal silver, and the accumulation of these particles causes their death. Still other scientists hypothesize that silver interferes with bacterial reproduction, disrupts their membranes and inhibits the functions within the cells. It also may boost the body’s own immune defenses, making them more potent in destroying invading microbes.

Mark Stengler, in his book The Natural Physician’s Healing Therapies, writes that he uses colloidal silver for the internal and external treatment of acute infections. He also uses it as an antifungal and antiparasitic agent, giving it to patients internally for infections of the digestive tract. Other holistic doctors, he says, use colloidal silver for the long-term treatment of Lyme disease.

[TECSHARE]

Hate to say it, but the majority of my family members have a history of working in the medical profession (both USA and Germany), and they've time and time again told me how awesome Colloidal Silver is. I used to gargle it all the time growing up whenever I got a sore throat. These days it's considered more of an herbal remedy / homeopathic medicine kind of thing. But it does work, just not nearly as well as it's advertised. I wouldn't call it a placebo effect either. Perhaps something more in the middle ground. The stuff isn't all that special. It does help, just not very much. And I was laughing pretty hard when I saw the magnetic DNA bullshit in the first post. iCEBREAKER does have some truth to what he's saying. I could inquire with my family if you guys are actually interested.

tl;dr
The stuff works, but not very well. Antibiotics are still the go-to treatment.

EDIT: Oh, and the midnight moonlight stuff is obviously a load of crap

Thanks for injecting some logic into this discussion. Please do present any evidence you have, I would be interested to see it. As far as antibiotics are concerned, lately there are a lot of resistant "superbugs" going around that are resistant to multiple types of antibiotics. Not only are antibiotics not always effective against them, but overuse also leads to more resistant strains. Doctors are commonly resorting to 3rd and 4th line antibiotics to treat this growing problem. One of the interesting things about colloidal silver is that the mechanism in which it kills viruses and bacteria is different than standard penicillin based antibiotics. Also you are ignoring viral infections, in which case antibiotics are useless except to treat coexisting bacterial infections.

Standard antibiotics work like this:
"Penicillin is an antibiotic that destroys Bacteria by destroying the cell wall of the microorganism. It does this by inactivating an enzyme necessary for the cross linking of bacterial cell walls. The enzyme is known as transpeptidase. It accepts the penicillin as a substrate, it then alkanolates a nucleophilic oxygen of the enzyme, rendering it inactive. Cell wall construction stops and the bacteria soon die. The antibiotic nature of the penicillin is due to the strained b-lactam ring, on opening the ring strain is relieved this makes penicillin more reactive than ordinary amides"
http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/webprojects2002/thornton/how_does_penicillin_work.htm

Bacterium have evolved to resist this type of attack mostly due to the over use of antibiotics in the meat production industry in combination with poor hygiene standards for the animals. Colloidal silver works in such a different way that viruses and bacteria have difficulty mutating into colloidal silver resistant strains. Here is an example relating to H5N1:

"All current scientific evidence supports that oligodynamic Ag+ hydrosol will denature virtually any protein or nucleic acid 49, 50, 51 that lacks sufficient antioxidant protection or lacks sufficient surveillance by metallothioneins.52 Viruses possess neither system of defense and their endlessly evolving cycle of viral protein mutations cannot shield their recurrent vulnerability to the denaturing action of oligodynamic Ag+. The evidence is quite compelling that over the past century that the Orthomyxoviridae family [e.g., Influenza (species unidentified),53, 54, 55 Influenza A (strains not identified),56, 57 Influenza A (Okuda strain),58 and Influenza B (Haemophilus influenzae)59] has been unable to outwit the virotoxic effects of oligodynamic Ag+ . "
http://www.imref.org/articles/pdfs/Townsend_I.pdf

Related:

"Synthesis and effect of silver nanoparticles on the antibacterial activity of different antibiotics against Staphylococcus aureus and Escherichia coli"
http://www.nanomedjournal.com/article/S1549-9634%2807%2900046-9/abstract

"Safety of Oligodynamic Silver Hydrosols"
http://www.imref.org/articles/pdfs/Safety_of_Oligodynamic_Silver_Hydrosols.pdf

[grue]

[...]

[...]
Mark Stengler, in his book The Natural Physician’s Healing Therapies, writes that he uses colloidal silver for the internal and external treatment of acute infections. He also uses it as an antifungal and antiparasitic agent, giving it to patients internally for infections of the digestive tract. Other holistic doctors, he says, use colloidal silver for the long-term treatment of Lyme disease.

so far, you got a natural physician writing that he uses colloidal server internally. GREAT! now all you have to do is produce a RCT that shows it's more effective than placebo.

[iCEBREAKER]

Grue, you have very poor reading comprehension skills.  

If you have to twist the plain language of the text beyond recognition in order to make it, your point is probably BS.  

EG, Dr. Strengler refers not only to his own practice, but "other holistic doctors" as well.

Keep struggling cupcake.  Your anti-science, pro-FDA jihad against colloidal silver will surely earn you a place in Rabid Fundamentalist Skeptic heaven (plus a dozen virgin Donna Shalalas).

"Marijuana has no recognized medical value.  It is not medicine, no matter how many cancer patients' lives it saves.  Marijuana will not cause the munchies until an RTC proves it does.
Colloidal silver is the devil.  Keep using patented antibiotics until all pathogens develop resistance to them.  Because profit.  Ask Grue, my fellow hater of freedom, for details."

You sound *EXACTLY* like the anti-medical cannabis police state thugs, whining about how you 'merely demand years of fully insured, prohibitively regulated, ludicrously expensive, double-blind, peer-reviewed, fair trade shade grown studies' to prove what has been common knowledge for 5,000 years.

Both of you are fully aware there is no incentive for a company to fund such studies, because colloidal silver and cannabis are not patentable, but that doesn't stop you two from making the demand regardless.  

Why?  Because you are both asshamsters.  

Thank you for your continued interest in Sacred Silver, the first colloidal silver produced exclusively for the Bitcoin community.

[grue]

Grue, you have very poor reading comprehension skills.  
If you have to twist the plain language of the text beyond recognition in order to make it, your point is probably BS.  
EG, Dr. Strengler refers not only to his own practice, but "other holistic doctors" as well.

If you can provide some empirical evidence, that would be great.

just for the fun of it:
Conspiracynutjob1983 is a believer in 9/11 conspiracies. He refers not only to his own practice, but "other conspiracy theorists as well".

You sound *EXACTLY* like the anti-medical cannabis police state thugs, whining about how you 'merely demand years of fully insured, prohibitively regulated, ludicrously expensive, double-blind, peer-reviewed, fair trade shade grown studies' to prove what has been common knowledge for 5,000 years.

you accuse me of appealing to emotion, and now you're using ad homiem? nice.

[iCEBREAKER]

Dear Grue,

I'm not here to defend the entire edifice of whatever passes for holistic medicine, but nice try at retreating into generalities when your attack on the particular failed spectacularly.   

You are aware that many modern doctors incorporate elements of non-western medicine, but you don't care because that fact is inconvenient to the scary FUD associated with holistic medicine with which you are trying to smear colloidal silver.  YLFI: guilt by association, congratulations!

You are also aware that the oligodynamic effect is neither controversial nor a conspiracy theory many people find highly offensive, yet you still throw out a red herring about '9/11 nutjobs.'

How distasteful of you to stand on the graves of the dead in order to defame a well known health product with a very long history of extensive use.   

Couldn't you think of a less inflammatory way to make your (rather silly) point?  Oh that's right, you are here for no reason other than to start flame wars.  Well cupcake, have fun getting trollstomped.

How is it an "appeal to emotion" to point out that both colloidal silver and cannabis both have long (1000+ year) histories of safe, effective prior use but are not studied extensively at present due to lack of patent potential?

I said you "sound like the anti-medical cannabis police state thugs, whining about how you 'merely demand years of fully insured, prohibitively regulated, ludicrously expensive, double-blind, peer-reviewed, fair trade shade grown studies' to prove what has been common knowledge for 5,000 years," not that you are literally a jackbooted thug.  (Asshamster, yes.  JBT, no.)

Thank you for your oddly persistent interest in Sacred Silver (the first colloidal silver product produced exclusively for the Bitcoin community) and your unabiding desire to participate in a conversation devoted to a product you have no intention of buying or even considering buying.  Such devotion is endearing, if a little creepy.   

[TECSHARE]

Notice how Grue has nothing to say to me and the studies I provided. He also hasn't been able to provide evidence of ANYONE who used pure colloidal silver (pure distilled water, and .999+ silver ionized into it) in moderation and was damaged physically by it. You can't even provide just one example? How many examples can be provided of amoxicillin hurting and even killing people? Quite a few. I am not saying one can replace the other completely - but if you are going to talk about safety well it has a pretty impeccable record compared to pretty much any pharmaceutical you could pick out of a hat.