Amazon releases Amazon Coins... reactions?

[mrvision]

Amazon Coins:
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97664&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1781495&highlight=

Amazon is releasing Amazon Coins, will this be a threat or an opportunity?

Of course we know nothing about Amazon inflationary plans... nor if Amazon will leak to the gov the amount of coins an individual has.

What do you people think? What will happen with bitcoin price?

UPDATE:  https://developer.amazon.com/help/faq.html#AmazonCoins

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[niko]

Any private currency backed by a powerful corporation can only help Bitcoin address regulatory questions. Amazon lawyers ought to be able to help set favorable precedents.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Any private currency backed by a powerful corporation can only help Bitcoin address regulatory questions. Amazon lawyers ought to be able to help set favorable precedents.

This. The more digital currencies there are, the easiest it will be for bitcoin to be used to swap between them. That, and closed-loop gift cards already exist for Amazon, so I'm not sure what the difference is in this.

[mralbi]

why should this in any way be related to Bitcoin?
looks more like a standard bonus miles system

what is special here?

[deepceleron]

It's like xbox points. Money goes in, money doesn't come back out. The same way iTunes points revolutionized currency (they didn't).

[mrvision]

maybe we can setup an exchange ACOINS <=> BTC

[HDSolar]

maybe we can setup an exchange ACOINS <=> BTC

Loving that idea, looks like we have a new fiscal game in town.

[casascius]

Of course we know nothing about Amazon inflationary plans... nor if Amazon will leak to the gov the amount of coins an individual has.

It sounds like they're pegged to the US dollar and not free floating, so inflation or the number in circulation shouldn't matter.  As long as Amazon is willing and able to accept them at their equivalent dollar value, then they are essentially propping them up to be worth that.  Without that, they're worth zero.

[casascius]

why should this in any way be related to Bitcoin?
looks more like a standard bonus miles system

what is special here?

Just because it sounds nice.

"Bitcoin?  For drugs?  No way, think of them like flyer miles."

"Bitcoin?  For drugs?  No way, think of them like Amazon coins."

THe first one will lead the listener to say WTF, the second one won't.

[RodeoX]

This is in no way competition. No more than American Airlines frequent flier miles. Private money is worthless to me. 

[deepceleron]

"Bitcoin?  For drugs?  No way, think of them like Amazon coins."

THe first one will lead the listener to say WTF, the second one won't.

"So Bitcoins are worth $1 each and I can only buy them on $20 gift cards and I can only buy apps for a Kindle with them? Why would I want that? WTF?". Not completely analogous.

It is just another way for Amazon to cash in on "breakage", a term for unspent gift cards and unspent points and money in accounts.

[casascius]

"Bitcoin?  For drugs?  No way, think of them like Amazon coins."

THe first one will lead the listener to say WTF, the second one won't.

"So Bitcoins are worth $1 each and I can only buy them on $20 gift cards and I can only buy apps for a Kindle with them? Why would I want that? WTF?". Not completely analogous.

You're confusing the logical with the perceptive.

The logical person is already against the war on drugs and doesn't need the comparison.

The kind of person this comparison works on already thinks "OMG drugs ban them", and puts more weight on whether two words rhyme versus whether a premise is logical.

[Matthew N. Wright]

"Bitcoin?  For drugs?  No way, think of them like Amazon coins."

THe first one will lead the listener to say WTF, the second one won't.

"So Bitcoins are worth $1 each and I can only buy them on $20 gift cards and I can only buy apps for a Kindle with them? Why would I want that? WTF?". Not completely analogous.

You're confusing the logical with the perceptive.

The logical person is already against the war on drugs and doesn't need the comparison.

The kind of person this comparison works on already thinks "OMG drugs ban them", and puts more weight on whether two words rhyme versus whether a premise is logical.

Is someone still wrong if they're against the war on drugs because it doesn't rhyme? hehe. 

I think closed-credits will have rules applied that they cannot be exchanged between other members no doubt or lest Amazon be up against the same wall everyone else has been (including Facebook). I could see them confiscating funds that were involved in user-to-user trades making it just as dangerous as a number of other stored-credit > BTC exchanges.

[RodeoX]

The fact that Amazon has done this implies two things. One is that they recognize the power of digital money. Two is that they just don't get the open source concept and why it is fundamentally different than anything they can own.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

maybe we can setup an exchange ACOINS <=> BTC

Loving that idea, looks like we have a new fiscal game in town.

Only if they let giving coins to other users.
Otherwise, it's going to be just like airline miles or BP (british petrol) points. Useless. Can't sell them, can't trade them, can't use them anywhere except on the services provided by amazon. .

[Rassah]

My guess is these will not be transferable, so instead of picking an app, clicking "Buy," having it charge your card, and instantly downloading it, you'll be looking for coins, buying them, essentially letting someone else hold on to your money, and then using coins to purchase that app. Sounds like a REALLY stupid business idea that will only make things more difficult and confusing.

[Matthew N. Wright]

My guess is these will not be transferable, so instead of picking an app, clicking "Buy," having it charge your card, and instantly downloading it, you'll be looking for coins, buying them, essentially letting someone else hold on to your money, and then using coins to purchase that app. Sounds like a REALLY stupid business idea that will only make things more difficult and confusing.

So what you're saying is, it's good for bitcoin. 

[Rassah]

My guess is these will not be transferable, so instead of picking an app, clicking "Buy," having it charge your card, and instantly downloading it, you'll be looking for coins, buying them, essentially letting someone else hold on to your money, and then using coins to purchase that app. Sounds like a REALLY stupid business idea that will only make things more difficult and confusing.

So what you're saying is, it's good for bitcoin. 

I would say it's completely irrelevant for bitcoin, but is bad for Amazon. Waste of company money.

[twolifeinexile]

My guess is these will not be transferable, so instead of picking an app, clicking "Buy," having it charge your card, and instantly downloading it, you'll be looking for coins, buying them, essentially letting someone else hold on to your money, and then using coins to purchase that app. Sounds like a REALLY stupid business idea that will only make things more difficult and confusing.

So what you're saying is, it's good for bitcoin. 

I would say it's completely irrelevant for bitcoin, but is bad for Amazon. Waste of company money.

No, the reason they do this is "banking in disguise", they apparently will make further payments down the road. They can first offer kindle discount, make it acceptable and on par with dollars , then begin to allow people pay each other, then they will compete with paypal. Then they will have "deposit", balances unused. Then ....

It is not a bad plan, but it is really nothing new.

[grantbdev]

I don't think this is a currency...it's just a gift card system really...

[Doctor Mushies]

We've got a winner

[casascius]

I don't think this is a currency...it's just a gift card system really...

I like the fact that they're calling them coins, because when anyone gripes about Bitcoin being used for evil, the question can naturally follow: "why are bitcoins bad but Amazon coins are OK?  What's the difference?"

Any dialogue that follows that line of questioning can only be good for Bitcoin.

[Matthew N. Wright]

I don't think this is a currency...it's just a gift card system really...

I like the fact that they're calling them coins, because when anyone gripes about Bitcoin being used for evil, the question can naturally follow: "why are bitcoins bad but Amazon coins are OK?  What's the difference?"

Any dialogue that follows that line of questioning can only be good for Bitcoin.

That's a good point, kind of like why MintChip is *good* for Bitcoin.

[Ari]

My guess is these will not be transferable, so instead of picking an app, clicking "Buy," having it charge your card, and instantly downloading it, you'll be looking for coins, buying them, essentially letting someone else hold on to your money, and then using coins to purchase that app. Sounds like a REALLY stupid business idea that will only make things more difficult and confusing.

So what you're saying is, it's good for bitcoin. 

I would say it's completely irrelevant for bitcoin, but is bad for Amazon. Waste of company money.

They do it to save on credit card fees.   Since there's a fixed cost per transaction, small payments of less than a dollar are not cost-effective.  If they can get people to buy $20 worth of Amazon Coins at once, it saves them money.  It's the same idea behind xbox points.

[sounds]

They do it to save on credit card fees.   Since there's a fixed cost per transaction, small payments of less than a dollar are not cost-effective.  If they can get people to buy $20 worth of Amazon Coins at once, it saves them money.  It's the same idea behind xbox points.

Yup. It's just a gift card, or xbox points, etc.

[HowGudAmI]

Just another 'gift card' system - they can only be spent with amazon, and they have no value outside of amazon.

If £1 buys you 10 amazon coins then each amazon coin will be worth 10pence - and I highly doubt amazon would let this change. Therefor they 'inflate' as the fiat money they are based on does.

I have never really understood gift-cards, because fiat money is more secure - and has an actual value. Too many companies are going under and refusing to honour gift cards when/if they are bought out by another company.

[Rassah]

They do it to save on credit card fees.   Since there's a fixed cost per transaction, small payments of less than a dollar are not cost-effective.  If they can get people to buy $20 worth of Amazon Coins at once, it saves them money.  It's the same idea behind xbox points.

That would require them to convince, or maybe even force, people to buy these coins, as opposed to just buying things with a credit card using the one-click purchase feature they have now. I can't see how they could convince people to use the more convoluted method, and switching to ONLY accepting coins for all purchases will likely piss off a lot of customers. Their Amazon Appstore is not really in a powerful position for that, though. Sure, people who only have Kindles are forced to use it, but there are plenty of other alternatives to the Kindle that have the same size screens, better hardware, and actually cost less, while having full access to Google's app store AND  Amazoon's Kindle app (e.g. Nexus). I'll be curious to see how they force this weirdness on their customers.

I don't think this is a currency...it's just a gift card system really...

At least gift cards you can actually gift. From what I understand, these coins will not be transferable. So I guess the gift would be to Amazon, who gets to take more of your money

[casascius]

Maybe Amazon has future plans to let you buy a limited selection of intangible products with bitcoins and is using this as a buffer so if they run into legal trouble.  So you could buy amazon coins with BTC. In event of legal snags they can isolate and "throw out amazon coins" and BTC with the bath water, but if it takes off and establishes legitimacy, they can simply expand it to be useful for all goods and have a head start on the market!

When you're a company concerned that you'll be enabling all kinds of horrible things by giving people a way for people to turn anonymous illegally-gotten money into goods and services, it sounds far less sinister when the only things you're allowing people to buy are intangible copies of intellectual property items that the evil people of the world could arguably just pirate anyway.  When you're taking bitcoins for music, movies, and e-books, it's hard for someone to argue you're helping black-hat criminals, because these criminals don't pay for these in the first place, right?  They jailbreak, crack, torrent, and pirate music and books.  It's mind numbingly brilliant if this has anything to do with Amazon's future plans to differentiate themselves as innovators.

[Ari]

That would require them to convince, or maybe even force, people to buy these coins, as opposed to just buying things with a credit card using the one-click purchase feature they have now. I can't see how they could convince people to use the more convoluted method, and switching to ONLY accepting coins for all purchases will likely piss off a lot of customers. Their Amazon Appstore is not really in a powerful position for that, though. Sure, people who only have Kindles are forced to use it, but there are plenty of other alternatives to the Kindle that have the same size screens, better hardware, and actually cost less, while having full access to Google's app store AND  Amazoon's Kindle app (e.g. Nexus). I'll be curious to see how they force this weirdness on their customers.

The press release states that they will be giving away free coins.  So there will be some sort of discount or bonus for using amazon coins.

At least gift cards you can actually gift. From what I understand, these coins will not be transferable. So I guess the gift would be to Amazon, who gets to take more of your money

If it's like their current gift card system, it will be giftable upon initial purchase, but not transferable again.

[philips]

these criminals don't pay for these in the first place, right?  They jailbreak, crack, torrent, and pirate music and books.

Good God, I am a criminal! 

[TheButterZone]

That would require them to convince, or maybe even force, people to buy these coins, as opposed to just buying things with a credit card using the one-click purchase feature they have now. I can't see how they could convince people to use the more convoluted method, and switching to ONLY accepting coins for all purchases will likely piss off a lot of customers. Their Amazon Appstore is not really in a powerful position for that, though. Sure, people who only have Kindles are forced to use it, but there are plenty of other alternatives to the Kindle that have the same size screens, better hardware, and actually cost less, while having full access to Google's app store AND  Amazoon's Kindle app (e.g. Nexus). I'll be curious to see how they force this weirdness on their customers.

The press release states that they will be giving away free coins.  So there will be some sort of discount or bonus for using amazon coins.

At least gift cards you can actually gift. From what I understand, these coins will not be transferable. So I guess the gift would be to Amazon, who gets to take more of your money

If it's like their current gift card system, it will be giftable upon initial purchase, but not transferable again.

I think the workaround is that you give someone a gift card, they apply it to their account, they send MP3s as a gift, spending the credit out of their account, and the recipient of the MP3 requests it be converted to credit rather than downloading the MP3.

[paultramarine]

Looks like Amazon is doing this to build customer loyalty and a strong app base (while taking advantage of the below-inflation rates of debt): http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/02/amazon_coins_jeff_bezos_brilliant_plan_to_give_free_money_to_kindle_fire.html

Regardless of the fact that the only things Amazon coins have in common with bitcoin are being digital and called 'coins', it probably is a good thing for bitcoin as the name and concept of a digital currency be more familiar when people learn about it in the future.

[b!z]

It's just a sort of 'points' system, it doesn't seem related to Bitcoin in any way.

[Monster Tent]

Maybe Amazon has future plans to let you buy a limited selection of intangible products with bitcoins and is using this as a buffer so if they run into legal trouble.  So you could buy amazon coins with BTC. In event of legal snags they can isolate and "throw out amazon coins" and BTC with the bath water, but if it takes off and establishes legitimacy, they can simply expand it to be useful for all goods and have a head start on the market!

When you're a company concerned that you'll be enabling all kinds of horrible things by giving people a way for people to turn anonymous illegally-gotten money into goods and services, it sounds far less sinister when the only things you're allowing people to buy are intangible copies of intellectual property items that the evil people of the world could arguably just pirate anyway.  When you're taking bitcoins for music, movies, and e-books, it's hard for someone to argue you're helping black-hat criminals, because these criminals don't pay for these in the first place, right?  They jailbreak, crack, torrent, and pirate music and books.  It's mind numbingly brilliant if this has anything to do with Amazon's future plans to differentiate themselves as innovators.

This could very well be in the long term plans. Both Google and Amazon are laying the foundation for the digital currency revolution thats coming. Its a short step from google wallet to google coins for example.

[sounds]

Just because a company starts offering something and uses the word "coin," it's definitely not bitcoin.

They just want to ride the vibe. Bitcoin is cool, why not call our product "coin" too?

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

Just because a company starts offering something and uses the word "coin," it's definitely not bitcoin.
They just want to ride the vibe. Bitcoin is cool, why not call our product "coin" too?

Yep, so much fuss for nothing. It's just some giftcard-like nonsense, not coin of any sort.

[RodeoX]

We should bum rush Amazon with emails about why they use Amazon Coins, but not bitcoin.  I do buy stuff from Amazon, but if they took BTC, they would make it my primary shopping site.

[Rassah]

We should bum rush Amazon with emails about why they use Amazon Coins, but not bitcoin.  I do buy stuff from Amazon, but if they took BTC, they would make it my primary shopping site.

No we shouldn't. The customer base of bitcoin users is still WAAAAAAAY too tiny for them to give a fuck. Plus they'll be in the business of selling AmazonCoins themselves directly. For them to use Bitcoin, they would have to consider how to sell it themselves, and somehow I don't think Amazon has interest in being in the exchange business.

[RodeoX]

We should bum rush Amazon with emails about why they use Amazon Coins, but not bitcoin.  I do buy stuff from Amazon, but if they took BTC, they would make it my primary shopping site.

No we shouldn't. The customer base of bitcoin users is still WAAAAAAAY too tiny for them to give a fuck. Plus they'll be in the business of selling AmazonCoins themselves directly. For them to use Bitcoin, they would have to consider how to sell it themselves, and somehow I don't think Amazon has interest in being in the exchange business.

My message to Amazon is... You can use BTC or not. I will be using bitcoin regardless of your decision.

[Rassah]

We should bum rush Amazon with emails about why they use Amazon Coins, but not bitcoin.  I do buy stuff from Amazon, but if they took BTC, they would make it my primary shopping site.

No we shouldn't. The customer base of bitcoin users is still WAAAAAAAY too tiny for them to give a fuck. Plus they'll be in the business of selling AmazonCoins themselves directly. For them to use Bitcoin, they would have to consider how to sell it themselves, and somehow I don't think Amazon has interest in being in the exchange business.

My message to Amazon is... You can use BTC or not. I will be using bitcoin regardless of your decision.

Their message will be something like, "who the f are you, and why should we care?"

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, ever, it's just that we are still nowhere near that point in Bitcoin's acceptance. Hell, we're still waiting for the software to actually be user friendly. Maybe in a year we'll be there.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

We should bum rush Amazon with emails about why they use Amazon Coins, but not bitcoin.  I do buy stuff from Amazon, but if they took BTC, they would make it my primary shopping site.

No we shouldn't. The customer base of bitcoin users is still WAAAAAAAY too tiny for them to give a fuck. Plus they'll be in the business of selling AmazonCoins themselves directly. For them to use Bitcoin, they would have to consider how to sell it themselves, and somehow I don't think Amazon has interest in being in the exchange business.

My message to Amazon is... You can use BTC or not. I will be using bitcoin regardless of your decision.

Who cares ? I don't know, but i know that Amazon doesn't.

[Mike Christ]

On a similar note, I got a gift card to Target last Christmas.  I traded it to a friend who was nice enough to take it off my hands for as much as it's worth.  I don't shop at Target much, but I guess he does.

I believe amazon coin will work about the same way.  Apparently it's mostly for Kindle.  As long as you can trade it between Kindle owners, it can definitely be used alongside Bitcoin.  Swap out coin for coin.

[bowen151]

How great would it be if it was an acutal cryptocoin with all the bells and whistles ( and flaws )...: 51% anyone?

I like that they have called them amazon coins, im surprised they havent implemented something along these lines a bit sooner though!

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

I think that this situation is quite useful for Bitcoin for 2 reasons.

1. It disperses attention of governments & banks so that they now will have go after 2 targets.
2. It may pave the way for all alternative currencies into the current system

I wonder if Amazon will take this "coin thing" further, making it a real currency, not just a gift card system.

[Rassah]

I think that this situation is quite useful for Bitcoin for 2 reasons.

1. It disperses attention of governments & banks so that they now will have go after 2 targets.
2. It may pave the way for all alternative currencies into the current system

I wonder if Amazon will take this "coin thing" further, making it a real currency, not just a gift card system.

1. Amazon's thing is no different from iTunes credits, Facebook credits, or Xbox Live points. There are plenty of non-targets out there, but Bitcoin is completely unique, still being a target all on it's own.
2. Amazon's thing is not a currency. Unless Amazon does something drastic, I doubt this will pave the way for anything, any more than Xbox points did. The closest privately owned currency that Bitcoin comes to is SecondLife's Linden dollars, and those got slapped with so much regulations that they never got a chance to pave the way to anything.

[TTBit]

Maybe Amazon has future plans to let you buy a limited selection of intangible products with bitcoins and is using this as a buffer so if they run into legal trouble.  So you could buy amazon coins with BTC. In event of legal snags they can isolate and "throw out amazon coins" and BTC with the bath water, but if it takes off and establishes legitimacy, they can simply expand it to be useful for all goods and have a head start on the market!

When you're a company concerned that you'll be enabling all kinds of horrible things by giving people a way for people to turn anonymous illegally-gotten money into goods and services, it sounds far less sinister when the only things you're allowing people to buy are intangible copies of intellectual property items that the evil people of the world could arguably just pirate anyway.  When you're taking bitcoins for music, movies, and e-books, it's hard for someone to argue you're helping black-hat criminals, because these criminals don't pay for these in the first place, right?  They jailbreak, crack, torrent, and pirate music and books.  It's mind numbingly brilliant if this has anything to do with Amazon's future plans to differentiate themselves as innovators.

I like it. Amazon grants power to an amazon subsidiary to issue amazon coins. This subsidiary deals with the banking part. Legal problems would not be on amazon.