IOTA - Permissioned ledger Russian extortion scheme

[kiklo]

Your argument is terrible. Nearly all of the things you mention (excluding new cars perhaps) are inherently available from many different sources. Food, water, etc. Go to probably millions of distinct habitable locations on earth and you will find them. Companionship is available from billions of people, healthcare from millions of providers, etc.

In nearly all existing proof-of-stake systems, the stake is highly concentrated by anywhere from a handful to possibly a few thousand people, in the latter case a group which likely has large internal concentration.

Moreover, the nature of paper wealth is that it is not subject to physical constraints of space or crowding and concentrates to an extraordinary degree. Nearly all of the paper wealth (trillions or quadrillions) that exist in the world are controlled by a handful of banks, or in turn collude via entities such as central banks and the IMF. That control over the bulk of wealth allows them to extend that control all the way down to banning weed stores from getting bank accounts and encumbering nearly all physical wealth in a web of debt.

Any system based on control of notional wealth is in practice permissioned.

Systems based on control of physical devices such as computers or even physical phenomenon such as electricity may become permissioned (as I would suggest Bitcoin largely has at least for the moment), but they have a fighting chance in a way that wealth-based systems such as proof of stake do not.

My Argument is better than yours,
your required a person be enclosed completely in a sealed system. (Complete Fantasy)

Stake has to be traded , if the owner want to buy anything with it, if not why do they even bother to stake.

Wealth accumulates wealth. Large stakeholders will earn large returns, and spend a little. Small stakeholders will live paycheck to paycheck and spend whatever they earn.

Furthermore, most proof-of-stake systems have in-built mechanisms that exacerbate this phenomenon. For example, a quieting time before you can stake. If you transact a lot (say from working and buying food) then you never stake. If you sit on your wealth you stake all the time.

Wealth accumulates wealth.
Really tell that to the Farmer , that wealth is divided between their children upon their deaths.

Are all of you Guys Single and don't spend any money on a Wife or Children because you seem too confused about the real word and our links to it?

 


FYI:

Furthermore, most proof-of-stake systems have in-built mechanisms that exacerbate this phenomenon. For example, a quieting time before you can stake. If you transact a lot (say from working and buying food) then you never stake. If you sit on your wealth you stake all the time.

That longer that quieting time, the less chance a big stakeholder can block the poor from staking.  
People can always set aside some for staking and the other for spending, you know like a Checkings & Saving Account.
PoW can monopolize the earning 24x7, Proof of Stake with a decent recovery time of 15 days or more, means the large stakeholder can't stake , leaving the poorer member the opportunity to stake until they recharge, it is a much fairer system than PoW.

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[r0ach]

Is it ironic to anyone else that this guy is hyping up some PoS coin called Zeitcoin, which is an interest based, rich get richer system as the cure for all of societies monetary problems?  That coin, if I'm not mistaken, was actually based on that "Zeitgeist movement" thing.  Some viral internet video most people have seen which had some viable points, then they released a second followup video expousing hardcore socialism as the solution to everything.  

Most people here are not socialists (definitely not me), but if you are one, proof of stake is the exact opposite of that.  It's more like a share cropper system where everyone else who isn't rich is your bitch.  It's the worst of capitalism and socialism combined.  People receive things for doing nothing, but the people who receive it are the ones at the top of the pyramid to strengthen their position of power even more.

[kiklo]

Is it ironic to anyone else that this guy is hyping up some PoS coin called Zeitcoin, which is an interest based, rich get richer system as the cure for all of societies monetary problems?  That coin, if I'm not mistaken, was actually based on that "Zeitgeist movement" thing.  Some viral internet video most people have seen which had some viable points, then they released a second followup video expousing hardcore socialism as the solution to everything.  Most people here are not socialists, but if you are one, proof of stake is the exact opposite of that.  It's more like a share cropper system where everyone else who is not rich is your bitch.

Shows you don't do your research, I promote ZEIT and don't hide that from anyone.
Plus I own over 100 million and will until my death, so I am the ultimate bag holder and ultimate supporter.
What coin do you support with such intensity?

Zeitgeist have no ties with ZEIT, and if it shocks you , I am a Devout Believer in a Divine Creator.  
Also have no problem with Free Markets, it is when the Government interferes they remove the freedom from the markets.
ZEIT translated from German means Time.
So we are basically a coin to be Bartered for Time of service or goods.
We want the world to use our coin , not just some rich cat in the US.
The World , Poor, Middle class, & Rich, and we will make it happen.

 

FYI:
I prefer to think of ZEIT in agricultural terms.
1. ZEIT is a Virtual Resource , with ZEIT like a seed , and electricity and ISP Bandwidth, and Time to make more.
2. For us it is not interest , it is a Virtual Harvest.  
3. We always have and always will keep a FREE FAUCET funded with Millions of ZEIT available so people can get ZEIT for FREE at
http://www.multifaucet.tk/index.php?faucet=ZEIT    

[generalizethis]

Is it ironic to anyone else that this guy is hyping up some PoS coin called Zeitcoin, which is an interest based, rich get richer system as the cure for all of societies monetary problems?  That coin, if I'm not mistaken, was actually based on that "Zeitgeist movement" thing.  Some viral internet video most people have seen which had some viable points, then they released a second followup video expousing hardcore socialism as the solution to everything.  Most people here are not socialists, but if you are one, proof of stake is the exact opposite of that.  It's more like a share cropper system where everyone else who is not rich is your bitch.

Dude's a loon. He's arguing since basically everything could become permissioned in his imagination (you parents decided to keep you therefore your living is permissioned--at least this seems where his reductionism will get him), therefore a system that is a one-step permissioned system is as good a system as any other.

I imagine this is how he would defend a murder client. "You could die if a plane hits you, an ebola virus gets hold of you, a giraffe could stomp you to death, basically something will kill you, so what difference is that from what my client did? It was going to happen sooner or later anyway."  

[kiklo]

Dude's a loon. He's arguing since basically everything could become permissioned in his imagination (you parents decided to keep you therefore your living is permissioned--at least this seems where his reductionism will get him), therefore a system that is a one-step permissioned system is as good a system as any other.

I imagine this is how he would defend a murder client. "You could die if a plane hits you, an ebola virus gets hold of you, a giraffe could stomp you to death, basically something will kill you, so what difference is that from what my client did? It was going to happen sooner or later anyway."  

Says the star wars reject, (Did I strike a nerve with the single comment)
you just PO, cause I proved your theory invalid and you need people to believe PoW is better , when it's not.

Would not defend a murder client , if I knew he was guilty, morals would prevent that in my case, but since you see the world that way , it tells me money is too much in your motivation.

 

FYI:

everything could become permissioned

What you fail to understand is it is not a could become permissioned, but most everything is already permissioned due to requiring FIAT for the service.
Generalized Permission or Specific Permission is still Permission.
Your Payment of FIAT to your Electricity , ISP , ASICS Reseller Provider, is why they granted you Permission to use their Services or buy their goods.
Don't send them their FIAT and watch how quickly they revoke their permission to use their systems, which you need to mine BTC.
Your Permission Less MYTH is Busted!

[generalizethis]

Dude's a loon. He's arguing since basically everything could become permissioned in his imagination (you parents decided to keep you therefore your living is permissioned--at least this seems where his reductionism will get him), therefore a system that is a one-step permissioned system is as good a system as any other.

I imagine this is how he would defend a murder client. "You could die if a plane hits you, an ebola virus gets hold of you, a giraffe could stomp you to death, basically something will kill you, so what difference is that from what my client did? It was going to happen sooner or later anyway."  

Says the star wars reject, (Did I strike a nerve with the single comment)
you just PO, cause I proved your theory invalid and you need people to believe PoW is better , when it's not.

Would not defend a murder client , if I knew he was guilty, morals would prevent that in my case, but since you see the world that way , it tells me money is too much in your motivation.

 

So your MO is jumping to wrong conclusions based on little to no information--makes perfect sense now.

[kiklo]

So your MO is jumping to wrong conclusions based on little to no information--makes perfect sense now.

Accurate Conclusions, and that is why it takes 3 or more of you to try and cover it up.  


 

FYI:
My MO is shining Logic on that Lying Theory you guys keep putting out to try and create good PR for a failing PoW system.

[P-Funk]

So you wanna buy some IOTA?

[r0ach]

So you wanna buy some IOTA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gfntBEI3Aw

[P-Funk]

Classic

[btcxyzzz]

That's called an extortion scheme, and it's not a permissionless ledger either.  The extortion blueprint is:
1)  Create PoS or IOTA tokens out of thin air with most or all residing in a genesis block which you control.
2)  Attempt to convince or force others to require them for some purpose
3)  Since you cornered the market already on day one by design, everyone is now required to go through you and your associates to be extorted at will

That covers the extortion part.

I was thinking extortion is when someone forces you to do something. Nobody forced me to buy tokens, I took the risk myself.

[achimsmile]

1. Take a general very weak "argument" against ico coins
2. Use it against IOTA only

genious

[Come-from-Beyond]

Yes, it is true, I can technically "interact" with IOTA on a "permissionless" level, but that interaction has no purpose unless you're first able to acquire the native token of the protocol.  It doesn't really matter if you can interact with it in some meaningless way if you're not spending native coins...

50 BTC bet - and I'll show you how to interact with Iota on a "permissionless" level in a meaningful way without spending native tokens.

PS: Someone quote this, please, I feel he will make appearance that he hasn't noticed this post.

[kiklo]

Yes, it is true, I can technically "interact" with IOTA on a "permissionless" level, but that interaction has no purpose unless you're first able to acquire the native token of the protocol.  It doesn't really matter if you can interact with it in some meaningless way if you're not spending native coins...

50 BTC bet - and I'll show you how to interact with Iota on a "permissionless" level in a meaningful way without spending native tokens.

PS: Someone quote this, please, I feel he will make appearance that he hasn't noticed this post.

"permissionless" is a fantasy in the real world for any coin.
Yours included.,

By the way , exactly how does your coin propagate?


 


FYI:
Looked at your Thread , you seem to be having issues meeting a release date.
Creepy Feature setting in?

[Come-from-Beyond]

"permissionless" is a fantasy in the real world for any coin.

I assume you are an expert in cryptocoins so I don't ask for a proof.

[generalizethis]

"permissionless" is a fantasy in the real world for any coin.

I assume you are an expert in cryptocoins so I don't ask for a proof.

If you ask, you'll get an awful smelling bowl of reductionism . "Mmmmm, stupidity!"

[winterzauber]

Hello everyone!

I would like to understand from what side is smelling like a SCAM!!!

Please, do me a favour - make your vote here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415320.msg14339471#msg14339471

and here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415313.msg14339500#msg14339500


Thank you for support.

Special Poll:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415614.0

[cryptohunter]

Hello everyone!

I would like to understand from what side is smelling like a SCAM!!!

Please, do me a favour - make your vote here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415320.msg14339471#msg14339471

and here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415313.msg14339500#msg14339500


Thank you for support.

Special Poll:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415614.0

How can I vote for IOTA - this is the biggest ICO scam.... way worse than the two above.

Also can you stop spamming this on every thread ?

[winterzauber]

Hello everyone!

I would like to understand from what side is smelling like a SCAM!!!

Please, do me a favour - make your vote here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415320.msg14339471#msg14339471

and here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415313.msg14339500#msg14339500


Thank you for support.

Special Poll:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415614.0

How can I vote for IOTA - this is the biggest ICO scam.... way worse than the two above.

Also can you stop spamming this on every thread ?

I just want to understand opinion of people, I am not a spammer

[cryptohunter]

Hello everyone!

I would like to understand from what side is smelling like a SCAM!!!

Please, do me a favour - make your vote here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415320.msg14339471#msg14339471

and here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415313.msg14339500#msg14339500


Thank you for support.

Special Poll:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1415614.0

How can I vote for IOTA - this is the biggest ICO scam.... way worse than the two above.

Also can you stop spamming this on every thread ?

I just want to understand opinion of people, I am not a spammer

You are spamming this on every thread. You are a spammer.